General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

PsychoPete

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Who needs enemies with mates like Evra :pac:

Don't forget mentioning Zaha and Moyes daughter, had poor Kelly squirming in her chair

tanko

So Jermaine Jenas thinks that Arsenal are missing David Luiz, they're in more trouble than i thought if that's the case.

Augme

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Southampton, Everton, Chelsea on the way for Arsenal looks a tricky run on paper. If Arteta can get 5 points out of that he'll be doing well. At the moment they look vulnerable against everyone.

If they get 3 points from those games I'd say they will be doing well. I can see either 0 or 1 point being more realistic though.

~Rebel~

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

As people rightly pointed out he can play the Kids? It allows U18s despite the 25 man squad iirc?

In theory you could've thrown out the kids alright, but I'm not sure it's a fair or decent thing to send out kids to be slaughtered on the biggest stage in club football... it's one thing in the league cup where there's a bit of an expectation of a 2nd team in an understated competition, but the Champions League is, well, The Champions League. A mix of kids and seniors seems the better way to go about things, and is far more beneficial to the academy lads.

I didn't have a problem with the lineup really, it was mostly players who needed the minutes after recent injury, kids, or players on the periphery (Keita, Origi, Minamino, Trent, Tsimikas, Kelleher, R Williams etc) - Salah and Jota should've only played 60 minutes though, or even better, come on for 30.

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

In theory you could've thrown out the kids alright, but I'm not sure it's a fair or decent thing to send out kids to be slaughtered on the biggest stage in club football... it's one thing in the league cup where there's a bit of an expectation of a 2nd team in an understated competition, but the Champions League is, well, The Champions League. A mix of kids and seniors seems the better way to go about things, and is far more beneficial to the academy lads.

I didn't have a problem with the lineup really, it was mostly players who needed the minutes after recent injury, kids, or players on the periphery (Keita, Origi, Minamino, Trent, Tsimikas, Kelleher, R Williams etc) - Salah and Jota should've only played 60 minutes though, or even better, come on for 30.

Plus throwing out the kids when there's roughly 3m for a win probably a factor. Even a draw nets a million.

Different scenario to the domestic cups which is probably peanuts in comparison.

tinpib

PsychoPete wrote: »

Don't forget mentioning Zaha and Moyes daughter, had poor Kelly squirming in her chair

Patrice "Shock Jock" Evra

Father Hernandez

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1338425714127716352?s=20

Gerard Houllier has passed away, feels too young to have passed away even at 73.

Always came across as a gentleman.

RIP.

El Gato De Negocios

Father Hernandez wrote: »

https://twitter.com/GFFN/status/1338425714127716352?s=20

Gerard Houllier has passed away, feels too young to have passed away even at 73.

Always came across as a gentleman.

RIP.

Sad news, fairly likable man and seemed like a decent sort of fella.

LuckyLloyd

Sad to hear of Houllier's passing.

He managed to come through a difficult tenure at Liverpool truly able to say he left the squad and the structures of the club in a better place than he had found them - and with his head high from the perspective of how he conducted himself throughout his reign. In the end he was moved on only because the expectations at Liverpool were so high and there was a feeling of backwards trajectory in 02 - 04 relative to 00 - 02.

Houllier brought big European nights back to Anfield, won trophies and moved Liverpool back up the table consistently. He also went and enjoyed a successful two years with Lyon in his next role, winning two Ligue 1 titles in his two year's with the club. One is left to wonder whether he may have been even more successful at the top level for a longer period if he hadn't have developed heart issues.

monkey9

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Sad to hear of Houllier's passing.

He managed to come through a difficult tenure at Liverpool truly able to say he left the squad and the structures of the club in a better place than he had found them - and with his head high from the perspective of how he conducted himself throughout his reign. In the end he was moved on only because the expectations at Liverpool were so high and there was a feeling of backwards trajectory in 02 - 04 relative to 00 - 02.

Houllier brought big European nights back to Anfield, won trophies and moved Liverpool back up the table consistently. He also went and enjoyed a successful two years with Lyon in his next role, winning two Ligue 1 titles in his two year's with the club. One is left to wonder whether he may have been even more successful at the top level for a longer period if he hadn't have developed heart issues.

That will always be the unaswered question. Phil Thompson did a great job while he was away, but it was never the same when he came back.

The match in Leverkusen when we were winning and he brought off Hamann for Smicer was the moment when he lost me.

We'll never know, but he's a Liverpool great. The treble season was amazing.

yourdeadwright

Just looking at the table its a mad season ,
Chelsea who where going to win the league by some a week or two ago could go down to 8th if United,City & Villa win there games in hand but still be only 3 points of the top,

I can not remember the league being so close in December before ,

Father Hernandez

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Just looking at the table its a mad season ,
Chelsea who where going to win the league by some a week or two ago could go down to 8th if United,City & Villa win there games in hand but still be only 3 points of the top,

I can not remember the league being so close in December before ,

Not just in England.

All 5 clubs top of the table in Europe's top 5 leagues are all Europa League teams and not who'd you expect.

England - Spurs (8 points between 1st & 13th)
Italy - AC Milan (8 points betwen 1st & 7th)
Spain - Real Sociedad (8points between 1st & 7th)
France - Lille (8 points between 1st & 10th)
Germany - Leverkusen (8 points between 1st & 8th)

https://twitter.com/2010MisterChip/status/1338275957015195648?s=20

yourdeadwright

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Not just in England.

All 5 clubs top of the table in Europe's top 5 leagues are all Europa League teams and not who'd you expect.

England - Spurs (8 points between 1st & 13th)
Italy - AC Milan (8 points betwen 1st & 7th)
Spain - Real Sociedad (8points between 1st & 7th)
France - Lille (8 points between 1st & 10th)
Germany - Leverkusen (8 points between 1st & 8th)

https://twitter.com/2010MisterChip/status/1338275957015195648?s=20

Wow so its a trend

Lucas Hood

Clearly Oles plan to get into Europa League and win the league.

tom1ie

Father Hernandez wrote: »

Not just in England.

All 5 clubs top of the table in Europe's top 5 leagues are all Europa League teams and not who'd you expect.

England - Spurs (8 points between 1st & 13th)
Italy - AC Milan (8 points betwen 1st & 7th)
Spain - Real Sociedad (8points between 1st & 7th)
France - Lille (8 points between 1st & 10th)
Germany - Leverkusen (8 points between 1st & 8th)

https://twitter.com/2010MisterChip/status/1338275957015195648?s=20

but i thought Liverpool were joint top....................:rolleyes:

8-10

tom1ie wrote: »

but i thought Liverpool were joint top....................:rolleyes:

They are, but Spurs are in 1st on goal difference. Until Wednesday when Son and Kane destroy us

~Rebel~

tom1ie wrote: »

but i thought Liverpool were joint top....................:rolleyes:

Why try to segue away from a really interesting conversation. We get it. We had pages and pages of this last week. Spurs are top on goal difference. We know. Last thing we need is these arguments being dredged back up every week to go through the same whole cycle again.

It really is crazy what’s happening across Europe...
Madrid and Barca down in 3rd and 8th. Man City and Utd down in 8th and 9th, with only 1 of last years top 4 in the top 4 now. Juve down in 4th. PSG in 3rd. All of these things are weird, all happening together is extraordinary. Seems the pandemic measures and lack of fans have been a massive leveller.

irelandrover

PSG are only a point off top so nothing crazy there.

Athletico are level on points with sociedad and two games in hand, Real are 3 point behind with a game in hand.

Bayern are only a point off top.

And Inter, Napoli and Juventus are 3 of the top 4 in Italy.

The tables arent that unusual at the moment. Normally there would be more games played by now but having close tables after 11/12 games isnt a crazy thing.

gimli2112

yeah but Liverpool had the title wrapped up this time last year. This year we're in a dog fight with Spurs, Leicester and heaven forbid an Ole led Utd.

Weepsie

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Why try to segue away from a really interesting conversation. We get it. We had pages and pages of this last week. Spurs are top on goal difference. We know. Last thing we need is these arguments being dredged back up every week to go through the same whole cycle again.

It really is crazy what’s happening across Europe...
Madrid and Barca down in 3rd and 8th. Man City and Utd down in 8th and 9th, with only 1 of last years top 4 in the top 4 now. Juve down in 4th. PSG in 3rd. All of these things are weird, all happening together is extraordinary. Seems the pandemic measures and lack of fans have been a massive leveller.

Nothing crazy about united in 9th. If last season panned out without a lockdown they'd have struggled to make top 5 imo and they'd still be struggling this year. They're one of the poor teams benefitting from all the craziness I think.

8-10

irelandrover wrote: »

The tables arent that unusual at the moment. Normally there would be more games played by now but having close tables after 11/12 games isnt a crazy thing.

Last season at this point:

Germany: Monchengladbach top by 4pts, Bayern 3rd who went on to win the league

England: Liverpool top by 8pts, went on to win the league

Italy: Juventus top by 1pt, went on to win the league

Spain: Barcelona and Real Madrid level on points, Barca +2 in goal diff, Real Madrid went on to win the league

France: PSG top by 8pts, went on to win the league on PPG basis due to early cancellation

Agent Coulson

Looks like no fans in London now as it moves into Tier 3.

yourdeadwright

Weepsie wrote: »

Nothing crazy about united in 9th. If last season panned out without a lockdown they'd have struggled to make top 5 imo and they'd still be struggling this year. They're one of the poor teams benefitting from all the craziness I think.

I'm not so sure United away form is great and they really should be doing better at home,
Ole and the players will look at that and think if we start winning games we should at h me they are in with a shout,

They play Sheffeild United this midweek & with Spurs & Liverpool against each other, They will be right at the top end with a win ,

One thing which is funny and obvious that the media won't say as to many are ex team mates of Ole,
United are starting games terribly and coming back to win is it not obvious its because they start the games with Ole tactics and idea's and once there being beat he lets the players (who are actually good) off the leash and they come back , Ole is clearly the problem

thelad95

Lucas Hood wrote: »

Clearly Oles plan to get into Europa League and win the league.

80 points could well win the league and as dire as United can be at times, if they can improve their home form they could actually reach a stage where they are consistent enough to put together that many points. It feels weird saying this with United 9th deep into December but I think this could well be there best chance of winning a league since Fergus left, I think it's absolutely there for them if they want it

yourdeadwright

thelad95 wrote: »

80 points could well win the league and as dire as United can be at times, if they can improve their home form they could actually reach a stage where they are consistent enough to put together that many points. It feels weird saying this with United 9th deep into December but I think this could well be there best chance of winning a league since Fergus left, I think it's absolutely there for them if they want it

If United don't get close this season they may as well forget about it,
City and Liverpool have completely fallen away from there usual standards for different reason's that both will put right going into next season
Spurs are only getting started under Jose and like Chelsea will only be stronger next year,

theoneeyedman

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Why try to segue away from a really interesting conversation. We get it. We had pages and pages of this last week. Spurs are top on goal difference. We know. Last thing we need is these arguments being dredged back up every week to go through the same whole cycle again.

It really is crazy what’s happening across Europe...
Madrid and Barca down in 3rd and 8th. Man City and Utd down in 8th and 9th, with only 1 of last years top 4 in the top 4 now. Juve down in 4th. PSG in 3rd. All of these things are weird, all happening together is extraordinary. Seems the pandemic measures and lack of fans have been a massive leveller.

The real levelling part of it is that many of the players are getting flogged to death (figuratively speaking now obviously).
Skillful, quick players playing too many games in a quick Succession leads to heavy legs and an evening of standards between the top players and good pros, added with some playing in Europe and some not. Also the psychology of it, having to get really up to your best every 3 days doesn't really happen at elite sport, they have to pick and choose to a certain extent when they will be eyeballs out and when they can try to get by @80 /90%.

~Rebel~

irelandrover wrote: »

PSG are only a point off top so nothing crazy there.

Athletico are level on points with sociedad and two games in hand, Real are 3 point behind with a game in hand.

Bayern are only a point off top.

And Inter, Napoli and Juventus are 3 of the top 4 in Italy.

The tables arent that unusual at the moment. Normally there would be more games played by now but having close tables after 11/12 games isnt a crazy thing.

Genuine title race involving 3 teams in France after 14 played is nuts.

Genuine title race involving 3 teams in Spain - none of whom are Barca. That’s nuts.

Genuine title race involving 3+ teams in Germany.

Genuine title race involving 4+ teams in Italy.

And the Premier League is obviously particularly weird.

As I said, all of these individual events is a bit weird... all happening together in notoriously 1 or 2 team leagues is a major trend.

~Rebel~

8-10 wrote: »

Last season at this point:

Germany: Monchengladbach top by 4pts, Bayern 3rd who went on to win the league

England: Liverpool top by 8pts, went on to win the league

Italy: Juventus top by 1pt, went on to win the league

Spain: Barcelona and Real Madrid level on points, Barca +2 in goal diff, Real Madrid went on to win the league

France: PSG top by 8pts, went on to win the league on PPG basis due to early cancellation

Thanks for finding those! Was having trouble finding specific gameweeks for comparison.

Illustrates the point well... things are strange this year, with Germany being the only one that looks the same - but that was weird enough last year that Bayern sacked their coach because of it.

I suppose as theoneeyedman said above it feels a bit like throwing in ‘multiball’ or something... just the chaotic element of too many games too close together, with too many injuries. Can see the CL clubs particularly affected as those extra games where they need to field full strength teams pulls them back into the pack. Interesting to see what happens now over the next month or so with a more level game-load with the group stages over. Will City fly up the table?

eagle eye

Very sad to hear about Gerard Houllier. Always came across as a gentleman. RIP.

Weepsie

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I'm not so sure United away form is great and they really should be doing better at home,
Ole and the players will look at that and think if we start winning games we should at h me they are in with a shout,

They play Sheffeild United this midweek & with Spurs & Liverpool against each other, They will be right at the top end with a win ,

One thing which is funny and obvious that the media won't say as to many are ex team mates of Ole,
United are starting games terribly and coming back to win is it not obvious its because they start the games with Ole tactics and idea's and once there being beat he lets the players (who are actually good) off the leash and they come back , Ole is clearly the problem

They've got some great results but some of those wins are on the back of pretty bad performances.

Old adage of winning even playing bad doesn't hold here, as there's only so many times you can rely on Bruno, a penalty or similar to get you going.

I think what may count for them is their fixture list just how they fall and have done throughout this season in the pl, I think they have a much kinder order than nearly any other team. Excepting the chelsea city back to back next year

Utopia Parkway

Great tribute from Danny Murphy.

https://twitter.com/talkSPORT/status/1338449649254981632

jayo26

No monday night football tonight.. You think they would of saved one of the games yesterday for tonight... At least loads of midweek games this week to look forward too.

PsychoPete

jayo26 wrote: »

No monday night football tonight.. You think they would of saved one of the games yesterday for tonight... At least loads of midweek games this week to look forward too.

Glenavon v Cliftonville and Celta De Vigo v Cadiz if any of those interest you...

jayo26

PsychoPete wrote: »

Glenavon v Cliftonville and Celta De Vigo v Cadiz if any of those interest you...

I'll pass

Ikozma

Let's be honest, if Liverpool didn't have so many injuries they'd probably be 7/8 points ahead at this stage

Collie D

Ikozma wrote: »

Let's be honest, if Liverpool didn't have so many injuries they'd probably be 7/8 points ahead at this stage

And if Messi and Ronaldo were Irish we’d be going to the Euros next year.

doc_17

I just saw the Evra thing....what a little a***ole he is.

Agent Coulson

I'd say Sky have some off air comments nicely recorded and tucked away that they could use to Key & Gray a few of the pundits they have now if they wanted rid.

They have no need with Evra as he will just say them live on air anyway.

crustyjuggler

doc_17 wrote: »

I just saw the Evra thing....what a little a***ole he is.

What's the Evra thing ?

Ikozma

Collie D wrote: »

And if Messi and Ronaldo were Irish we’d be going to the Euros next year.

Don't think so, we'd need a few defenders and a keeper too

1o059k7ewrqj3n

crustyjuggler wrote: »

What's the Evra thing ?

He said the Yanks did 9/11.

Agent Coulson

crustyjuggler wrote: »

What's the Evra thing ?

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

You wouldn't want to have told this lad anything in confidence because he has absolutely no problem spilling the beans live on TV

https://twitter.com/Xhakaed/status/1338234548824502279?s=20

.

DeanAustin

Ikozma wrote: »

Let's be honest, if Liverpool didn't have so many injuries they'd probably be 7/8 points ahead at this stage

Yeah if only they could have fielded something resembling their first choice 11 at Aston Villa, they wouldn't have gotten hockeyed 7-2...oh that's right, Mane aside, they did.

Agent Coulson

Sam Mendes is producing a football comedy for Netflix from two of the Guardian's football writers.

The Red Zone (6 x 30′)

Writers: Barney Ronay and Jonathan Liew
Production Company: Neal Street Productions
Executive Producers: Sam Mendes, Pippa Harris, Nicolas Brown
Synopsis: This is a comedy about football, but also not about football. Mainly it’s a story about the people and the surfaces that collide in the orbit of this strange, obsessional world of bluffers, sharks and genuine talent. It’s about friendship, trust and families, in a world where no one is actually your friend, where there is zero trust and where families tend to devour each other every six months.

https://variety.com/2020/tv/global/netflix-uk-original-series-slate-1234852613/

DeanAustin

DeanAustin wrote: »

Yeah if only they could have fielded something resembling their first choice 11 at Aston Villa, they wouldn't have gotten hockeyed 7-2...oh that's right, Mane aside, they did.

And the threadbare remnants of that team are now JOINT TOP with Spurs. Shows the quality of Liverpool. I wonder what would happen if Kane or Son got injured...:pac:

Fitz*

DeanAustin wrote: »

Yeah if only they could have fielded something resembling their first choice 11 at Aston Villa, they wouldn't have gotten hockeyed 7-2...oh that's right, Mane aside, they did.

Alisson, Matip, Thiago, Mane were all missing that day through injury. Tsimikas, Ox, Shaqiri also missing from the squad through injury.

It was not just Mane.

If people wan to keep referencing that one game where Adrian threw one in the net, along with about 4 wicked deflections as a sort of level for what the Liverpool team can do....well then whatever makes you happy.

Ikozma

Because they all know full well if Liverpool were full strength the amazing lge that is the Premier lge would for the 2 nd year in a row be over at xmas

Shanotheslayer

Ikozma wrote: »

Because they all know full well if Liverpool were full strength the amazing lge that is the Premier lge would for the 2 nd year in a row be over at xmas

Changed your tune from last year, all we heard last year was leagues aren't over by Christmas :pac:

rob316

Liverpool are playing midfielders as defenders and are still joint top, they have developed this sort of depth and knack of getting a result no matter like United had under Ferguson. I can often remember them winning leagues with the like of Carrick and Fletcher playing CB for periods. Play as ****e as possible, still be there or there abouts and go on a huge run of wins in the 2nd half of the season.

Father Hernandez

rob316 wrote: »

Liverpool are playing midfielders as defenders and are still joint top, they have developed this sort of depth and knack of getting a result no matter like United had under Ferguson. I can often remember them winning leagues with the like of Carrick and Fletcher playing CB for periods. Play as ****e as possible, still be there or there abouts and go on a huge run of wins in the 2nd half of the season.

Not PL related but linked to your post.

Beat Wolfsburg 3-1 away in the CL in 2009 with this team below which was quite incredible given the XI that starts.

Similar to SAF, it's the winning mentality and never say die engrained in the team Klopp has instilled in Liverpool and the players, certainly last year and definitely snippets of it this season.