General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

~Rebel~

pjohnson wrote: »

It is surely the biggest upset in English football history given how patchwork and injury ravaged the Liverpool XI were.

you're reeeeally keepin' this thing up, huh.

pjohnson

~Rebel~ wrote: »

you're reeeeally keepin' this thing up, huh.

Well the injury plagued narrative is continuing for a second year so why not embrace it?

I dont really get the desire some Liverpool fans have to try and paint themselves as plucky underdogs when they just aren't, they are favourites 95% of the time. The Djimi Traore/Charlie Adam/Rickie Lambert/Steven Caulker era's are long gone.

monkey9

pjohnson wrote: »

Well the injury plagued narrative is continuing for a second year so why not embrace it?

I dont really get the desire some Liverpool fans have to try and paint themselves as plucky underdogs when they just aren't, they are favourites 95% of the time. The Djimi Traore/Charlie Adam/Rickie Lambert/Steven Caulker era's are long gone.

:pac::pac::pac::D:D:D

simongurnick

pjohnson wrote: »

Well the injury plagued narrative is continuing for a second year so why not embrace it?

I dont really get the desire some Liverpool fans have to try and paint themselves as plucky underdogs when they just aren't, they are favourites 95% of the time. The Djimi Traore/Charlie Adam/Rickie Lambert/Steven Caulker era's are long gone.

Oh yes they are. I'm a liverpool fan and wouldn't call out the injuries from the plucky underdog perspective, but more to say, if this is what we are doing now, wait until a few more lads are back. Thiago is going to make hay soon

gimli2112

Ikozma wrote: »

So liverpool are no longer joint top then?

all the more impressive when you consider our unprecedented injury list. I'm not sure people are taking that into account.

The White Wolf

eagle eye wrote: »

Watched the whole Liverpool/Spurs game, pretty poor spectacle but Fabinho was incredible I thought. Far and away the best player on the park for me.

Would have thought the match was a pretty entertaining spectacle for the neutral....bar the result of course.

Liam O

pjohnson wrote: »

Well the injury plagued narrative is continuing for a second year so why not embrace it?

I dont really get the desire some Liverpool fans have to try and paint themselves as plucky underdogs when they just aren't, they are favourites 95% of the time. The Djimi Traore/Charlie Adam/Rickie Lambert/Steven Caulker era's are long gone.

In fairness, they were favourites 95% the time during those eras due to their fans blowing smoke up their holes, great for betting against. Now they actually back it up on the pitch and...oh, it's the same, if not worse.

yourdeadwright

Gotta say Spurs are absolutely woeful
Its basically 6 at the back and hope Son amd Kane do you on the counter,
I wouldnt mind of it was just away games but they done it at home to Arsenal even away to Palace

They played much better football for instant away to United

yourdeadwright

Fabhino is just an old school excellent footballer,
Literally performing like a top class CB and the fella os CM, He played a load of games as a roght back for Brazil

Just seems to understand the game, Id go as far as saying he seems to be a better CB than Joe Gomez who himself is very good

adaminho

pjohnson wrote: »

Well the injury plagued narrative is continuing for a second year so why not embrace it?

I dont really get the desire some Liverpool fans have to try and paint themselves as plucky underdogs when they just aren't, they are favourites 95% of the time. The Djimi Traore/Charlie Adam/Rickie Lambert/Steven Caulker era's are long gone.

Champions league winner Djimi Traore?

Fitz*

pjohnson wrote: »

It is surely the biggest upset in English football history given how patchwork and injury ravaged the Liverpool XI were.

Well yeah the team is currently patchwork and injury ravaged lately. There were 8 first team players missing last night. And before you say that it's all squad players who won't make the team, each of VVD, Gomez, Matip, Thiago & Jota can lay claims to be starting for Liverpool each week. That's 5 players. The 3 others being Milner, Tsmikas & Shaqiri and can lay claim to be starting some games, bu not all games as they are squad members.

Last night saw a player bought for midfield playing as CB again, along with a 19 year who was making his league debut. His only professional league experience prior to last night was in the 6th tier, and yet here he was last night up against Kane & Son. It wasn't even the first time in December that a kid has been thrown in for his professional league debut, let alone the first time this season! There was also a game recently where a player had to make only his 2nd league appearance in England, in the same game where a 19 year old was moved from his natural CM position to play at RB because the other options had had been injured.

That is fairly patchwork to me! Sounds like you have your head buried in the sand and refuse to take it out.

Shanotheslayer

adaminho wrote: »

Champions league winner Djimi Traore?

I hate this argument. It doesn't even make sense on the ability of a player.

adaminho

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I hate this argument. It doesn't even make sense on the ability of a player.

He was the starting left back in that team for most of the season, he wasn't the most talented player ever but he earned that medal

gimli2112

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

I hate this argument. It doesn't even make sense on the ability of a player.

If you had watched him regularly or maybe seen his wonder own goal live in the FA cup you might share our disbelief.
My recollection of his performance in the CL Final was he was hugely at fault for Maldini's opener after 3 minutes and did nothing else of note, which for him was a major positive.

To try and put it in context for an Everton fan, he was like the Pickford of left backs but worse.

adaminho

gimli2112 wrote: »

If you had watched him regularly or maybe seen his wonder own goal live in the FA cup you might share our disbelief.
My recollection of his performance in the CL Final was he was hugely at fault for Maldini's opener after 3 minutes and did nothing else of note, which for him was a major positive.

To try and put it in context for an Everton fan, he was like the Pickford of left backs but worse.

Didn't he clear a Shevchenko shot off the line as well?

pjohnson

Fitz* wrote: »

Well yeah the team is currently patchwork and injury ravaged lately. There were 8 first team players missing last night. And before you say that it's all squad players who won't make the team, each of VVD, Gomez, Matip, Thiago & Jota can lay claims to be starting for Liverpool each week. That's 5 players. The 3 others being Milner, Tsmikas & Shaqiri and can lay claim to be starting some games, bu not all games as they are squad members.

Last night saw a player bought for midfield playing as CB again, along with a 19 year who was making his league debut. His only professional league experience prior to last night was in the 6th tier, and yet here he was last night up against Kane & Son. It wasn't even the first time in December that a kid has been thrown in for his professional league debut, let alone the first time this season! There was also a game recently where a player had to make only his 2nd league appearance in England, in the same game where a 19 year old was moved from his natural CM position to play at RB because the other options had had been injured.

That is fairly patchwork to me! Sounds like you have your head buried in the sand and refuse to take it out.

Didn't know Klopp ever played with 3 CB's (Matip, Gomez & VVD). Or are you saying Gomez would start RB ahead of TAA? Jota doesnt seem to actually be ahead of any of Salah/Firmino/Mane but they need to stay on form or he will.

Thiago and 2 of the 3 CB's would be the only starters.

Again it was the same nonsense when Nathaniel Clyne was cited as being part of the injury crisis. Like a fully fit Clyne was any threat whatsoever to TAA starting.

Shanotheslayer

adaminho wrote: »

He was the starting left back in that team for most of the season, he wasn't the most talented player ever but he earned that medal

But your logic is completely flawed.

Ronaldo never won a CL
Ibra never won a CL

Plently of people haven't won a singular trophy it doesn't mean their ability is hindered

It's a stupid argument. It's the equivalent of saying Gerrard wasn't unbelievable because he didn't win the league.

gimli2112

adaminho wrote: »

Didn't he clear a Shevchenko shot off the line as well?

lol possibly I potentially have a blind spot for anything good he may have done. He's just become synomonous in my mind for "bad" which is probably unfair on the guy
Left back was a problem for years and Konchesky is an argument for him not being the worst. Even our good left backs weren't great. Robertson is a god send.

yourdeadwright

pjohnson wrote: »

Didn't know Klopp ever played with 3 CB's (Matip, Gomez & VVD). Or are you saying Gomez would start RB ahead of TAA? Jota doesnt seem to actually be ahead of any of Salah/Firmino/Mane but they need to stay on form or he will.

Thiago and 2 of the 3 CB's would be the only starters.

Again it was the same nonsense when Nathaniel Clyne was cited as being part of the injury crisis. Like a fully fit Clyne was any threat whatsoever to TAA starting.

Your not making much sense at all,
If first choice players are injured and the back up second for them is injured surely you can see the problem
So VVD is injured then Gomez and Matip

Then in midfield you have Fabhino who was first choice having to cover at CB., and people who would cover for him in midfield are injure Thiago, Ox, Milner and Naby,

So uv only 3 fit midfielders asked to play ebery game one of which is 19,

Jota is the second highest scorer at the club and also injured

The two lads who cover for our lef tback are also injured

If you dont understand its an injury crisis im not sure you understand football

Quazzie

yourdeadwright wrote: »

So uv only 3 fit midfielders asked to play ebery game one of which is 19,

Are you Unai Emery in disguise :D

theoneeyedman

Fitz* wrote: »

I thought Hojberg was excellent and seemed to win every tackle after he got booked which is no mean feat against waves of attacks. Jones very good too, especially first half.

Doctors differ.... Wynaldum was outstanding last night, and Hojberg could only cope with him by fouling, should have been booked long before half time, foul foul foul. U thought he was chasing shadows all night, and a number of the Spurs players looked out on their feet from this in the last 10 minutes when Liverpool squeezed for the winner.
Anyway, that's how I saw it, might be red tinted, but Jones and Gini bossed that middle section

Fitz*

pjohnson wrote: »

Didn't know Klopp ever played with 3 CB's (Matip, Gomez & VVD). Or are you saying Gomez would start RB ahead of TAA? Jota doesnt seem to actually be ahead of any of Salah/Firmino/Mane but they need to stay on form or he will.

Thiago and 2 of the 3 CB's would be the only starters.

Again it was the same nonsense when Nathaniel Clyne was cited as being part of the injury crisis. Like a fully fit Clyne was any threat whatsoever to TAA starting.

VVD would have started last night if fit, as would Gomez and as would Matip. That's it. But instead they are all injured.

Trying to claim that the players would not all have started together as a deflection is kind of stupid IMO. It's like saying all those injuries don't matter because they can't all play together. Is that not just highlighting further that Liverpool do have a massive amount of injuries. Yes, the 3 CBs all can't play together, but that is just showing how many are all injured at the same time. VVD can't play so that means that the new CB partnership is Gomez & Matip. Oh wait Gomez can't play, so the new partnership is Fabinho & Matip. Oh now Matip can't play either, so the new partnership is Fabinho & an other etc and the cascade continues.

Clyne hasn't played for Liverpool for a few years now. Not sure why he is in the conversation? Or are you trying to insinuate that the Liverpool injuries are all squad players that don't get into the team? That's laughable if you are trying to suggest that VVD, Gomez, Matip, Thiago, Jota are squad players. Those 5 players would start for pretty much every team in the league.

rob316

The last 10 mins was the turning point, Mane had Aurier run absolutely ragged and all Spurs subs were used up. Mourinho still approaching these games in the same manner, you have the 2 most inform duo in the league and you ask them to defend for 90 mins its baffling. It all about a high pressing game now. When you consider Liverpool had a 19 year old making his PL debut and a midfielder in defense its a massive missed opportunity.

Still I can see Spurs been there or thereabouts at the end of the season but ultimately its Liverpool's title to lose. They have the experience, the grit and match winners to grind out this.

Potential Underachiever

8-10 wrote: »

Also the only team in the league to have scored in every game they've played.

I also noticed that our last 4 PL games v Spurs at Anfield have all been 1-1 late in the second half only for Liverpool to break the deadlock with:

2020/21: Firmino 90'
2019/20: Salah 75'
2018/19: Alderweireld (OG) 90'
2017/18: Salah 90' (+1)

That's gotta hurt a little.

fyfe79

Fitz* wrote: »

VVD would have started last night if fit, as would Gomez and as would Matip. That's it. But instead they are all injured.

Trying to claim that the players would not all have started together as a deflection is kind of stupid IMO. It's like saying all those injuries don't matter because they can't all play together. Is that not just highlighting further that Liverpool do have a massive amount of injuries. Yes, the 3 CBs all can't play together, but that is just showing how many are all injured at the same time. VVD can't play so that means that the new CB partnership is Gomez & Matip. Oh wait Gomez can't play, so the new partnership is Fabinho & Matip. Oh now Matip can't play either, so the new partnership is Fabinho & an other etc and the cascade continues.

Clyne hasn't played for Liverpool for a few years now. Not sure why he is in the conversation? Or are you trying to insinuate that the Liverpool injuries are all squad players that don't get into the team? That's laughable if you are trying to suggest that VVD, Gomez, Matip, Thiago, Jota are squad players. Those 5 players would start for pretty much every team in the league.

Plus, let's not forget that to plug the CB gap, due to all the CB's being out injured, we're playing Fabinho there... removing him as a midfield option. Who plugs that midfield gap? Thiago, Milner, Keita, Ox, Shaqiri are all injured or only just back from injury. So we're playing a 19 year old Curt Jones pretty much non-stop.
Hendo is back now but has already been injured this season.

Quazzie

fyfe79 wrote: »

Plus, let's not forget that to plug the CB gap, due to all the CB's being out injured, we're playing Fabinho there... removing him as a midfield option. Who plugs that midfield gap? Thiago, Milner, Keita, Ox, Shaqiri are all injured or only just back from injury. So we're playing a 19 year old Curt Jones pretty much non-stop.
Hendo is back now but has already been injured this season.

And still ye used no subs yesterday. You can't really complain about injuries when your manager obviously puts winning as more important than his player's welfare.

Quazzie

Quazzie wrote: »

And still ye used no subs yesterday. You can't really complain about injuries when your manager obviously puts winning as more important than his player's welfare

Really? who's welfare was in danger yesterday Quazzie?

fyfe79

Quazzie wrote: »

And still ye used no subs yesterday. You can't really complain about injuries when your manager obviously puts winning as more important than his player's welfare.

Shutting the door after the horse has bolted. Klopp wanted 5 subs from the start of the season to prevent injuries down the line. Didn't get it, a lot of the squad is now injured and Klopp's options are severely limited with his remaining bench players. Is he going to take off Gini Wijnaldum and replace him with a youth player like Cain?

mightyreds

6 wrote: »

Really? who's welfare was in danger yesterday Quazzie?

I think theres a few people here whose welfare was in danger around 90 minutes yesterday.

fyfe79

fyfe79 wrote: »

Is he going to take off Gini Wijnaldum and replace him with a youth player like Cain?

Well...he should if he's Abel...

monkey9

Liverpool's injury list is real and not ideal for the club, but what i laugh at about those who want to dismiss it are the same ones who chose to verbally asterix Liverpool's title win with the Laporte injury at City.

Ah but if City had had Laporte all season it would have been different. LiVARpool were so lucky because they had no injuries.

So of course it's only natural to compare VVD's injury, (and let's face it there were plenty who were delighted when it occured), to that of Laporte at City.

I even recall some banter merchants on here last season trying to delicately start some perfomance enhancement rumours to explain why Liverpool had so few injuries.

When you factor in the amount of other injuries that those on here and good oul Jose in his pre match press conference choose to pretend aren't real, it's an impressive season from Liverpool so far.

In fact, when those who choose to dismiss Liverpool's injury list with the usual 'oh shut up and just get on with it' remark, just point at the league table and state 'we are getting on with it, we always were'.

Is it not better to argue from a point of power rather than from a plateau of excuses where other clubs shout the same arguements from?

monkey9

6 wrote: »

Really? who's welfare was in danger yesterday Quazzie?

Big Sam's social welfare when he took the West Brom job.

That's what probably is hurting Quazzie right now. The fact that Arsenal are stuck with Arteta and and Big Sam will drag them down into his little whirlpool of relegation.

Nerdlingr

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Fabhino is just an old school excellent footballer,
Literally performing like a top class CB and the fella os CM, He played a load of games as a roght back for Brazil

Just seems to understand the game, Id go as far as saying he seems to be a better CB than Joe Gomez who himself is very good

Probably one of the most underrated players in the league. The guy is world class. It seems to be taken for granted the unreal job hes doing at centre back.
Just slots right in there and looks like hes a rolls royce of a defender - its as if hes been playing there all his life. You can only do that if youve got the football brain to do it - dare I say it... Paul McGrathesque. Perfect footballer imo. We blindsided everyone buying him straight after the CL defeat to Madrid - 30m - an absolute steal!!

fyfe79

monkey9 wrote: »

Ah but if City had had Laporte all season it would have been different. LiVARpool were so lucky because they had no injuries.

Exactly this. The neutrals have had their prayers answered this season... loads of injuries and loads of VAR decisions going against Liverpool.... but the wheels are still turning for the team and heads are wobbling all over the gaff, including Jose yesterday

Fitz*

I agree that is was a bit weird that Klopp didn't use any subs last night to be fair, especially after the 5 subs arguement.

But. I do think that this could be down to 2 reasons - 1 the subs available were not ready to play - ie Ox returning from a long term injury, Keita coming back from short term injury and the intensity of the game would be too much for them. Origi would have been the wrong sub as the ball would just bounce off of him and give the ball away. Taki for Firmino (or a midfielder) was one other option but Firmino scored the winner so leaving him on the field was justified.

The other reason is that I expect a lot of changes on Saturday morning for the early kick off again. Players who are totally fresh will start IMO, like Neco Williams, Ox, Keita, hopefully Matip back. Maybe Minamino also. Up to half the outfielders changed. I think this was said about Pep recently too where he used a low amount of subs at the weekend but then basically rotated his whole team midweek so that the players played 90, 0 and then 90 again in the week instead of 90, 30, 60 for example.

eagle eye

Quazzie wrote:

And still ye used no subs yesterday. You can't really complain about injuries when your manager obviously puts winning as more important than his player's welfare.

I seen a game about two weeks ago where he took off Salah and the player was really annoyed at being taken off.

DM_7

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Shanotheslayer

Is it me or is there a lot more goals this season?

Just looking at the top scorers:

3 players on 11
1 on 10
2 on 9

Spurs with 2 of those 6 players so it seems quite spread out across the teams.

If any of those players maintain that form they could break the record of 32. I could only see Salah or Kane getting it as they're Pen takers. I know Vardy is but Leicester will flip flop.

theoneeyedman

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Is it me or is there a lot more goals this season?

Just looking at the top scorers:

3 players on 11
1 on 10
2 on 9

Spurs with 2 of those 6 players so it seems quite spread out across the teams.

If any of those players maintain that form they could break the record of 32. I could only see Salah or Kane getting it as they're Pen takers. I know Vardy is but Leicester will flip flop.

How many are soft, VAR penalties??

NITRO95

theoneeyedman wrote: »

How many are soft, VAR penalties??

Do they somehow count as lesser goals?

Shanotheslayer

theoneeyedman wrote: »

How many are soft, VAR penalties??

? Does it matter to the question?

Lucas Hood

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1339573366928400391?s=20
Premier League clubs have voted against allowing teams to make five substitutions per match for a third time at a shareholders' meeting on Thursday.

yourdeadwright

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Probably one of the most underrated players in the league. The guy is world class. It seems to be taken for granted the unreal job hes doing at centre back.
Just slots right in there and looks like hes a rolls royce of a defender - its as if hes been playing there all his life. You can only do that if youve got the football brain to do it - dare I say it... Paul McGrathesque. Perfect footballer imo. We blindsided everyone buying him straight after the CL defeat to Madrid - 30m - an absolute steal!!

Havw to agree if he keeps up his current form he is in with a shout in team of the seaaon as a CB which is crazy

DM_7

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Is it me or is there a lot more goals this season?

Just looking at the top scorers:

3 players on 11
1 on 10
2 on 9

Spurs with 2 of those 6 players so it seems quite spread out across the teams.

If any of those players maintain that form they could break the record of 32. I could only see Salah or Kane getting it as they're Pen takers. I know Vardy is but Leicester will flip flop.

Spurs have only scored two pens so far. Kane will score a lot overall but in the Spurs set up as shown by his assists he may be 'too involved' in general play to get near 33.

Salah is on par with the form he was in when he got to 32 and could possibly get there again.

Son has as many goals as he scored last season so it is hard to predict what will happen.

DCL could have a big season but goal rate has slowed.

CSF

Lucas Hood wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1339573366928400391?s=20
Premier League clubs have voted against allowing teams to make five substitutions per match for a third time at a shareholders' meeting on Thursday.

Expected this.

Agent Coulson

They did vote for minor changes teams can now name 9 subs up from 7 starting from next weekend.


And they did vote for concussion substitutes though which is a great thing starting next month.

Teams will be able to use up to two additional replacements per game if players are suspecting of sustaining, or diagnosed with, a concussion.

Hopefully it's not abused just to make changes when 3 subs are used up or used instead of using up normal subs.

fullstop

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

? Does it matter to the question?

Well, possibly, because we’re seeing a lot more penalties than usual and hence that’s more chances to score for the likes of Vardy, Salah, Kane, etc. which they may not have gotten before VAR. On the other hand, we’re seeing goals ruled out for a lube being offside, and these goals may have stood in the past.

So, in conclusion, who knows!

niallo27

Agent Coulson wrote: »

They did vote for concussion substitutes though which is a great thing starting next month.




Hopefully it's not abused just to make changes when 3 subs are used up or used instead of using up normal subs.

On this, Kane definitely took advantage of the knock to the head rule which stops the game last night, he got a knock to the head, looked to see who had the bad, saw it was Liverpool and then threw himself to the ground. He is quite a sneaky player.

martyos121

Agent Coulson wrote:

Hopefully it's not abused just to make changes when 3 subs are used up or used instead of using up normal subs.

Taking a player off for a suspected concussion should result in a mandatory medical suspension of at least a week for the player's safety.

That's how you stop the rule being abused, but it's football and that makes too much sense, so it won't happen.

Lucas Hood

The opposition gets to make a sub at same time if someone has to go off with suspected concussion to stop teams abusing it.