General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

thebaz

TheadoreT wrote: »

Premier league looking the most boring of big 4 this season, hard to not see Liverpool winning by 10+ again, zero consistency elsewhere for some time now.

I'd say its far more open than anytime , liverpool with ther injuries will slip , just going through a good patch - loads of teams underneath -which is good, far from boring given the lack of crowds.

Osmosis Jones

Had a free bet and threw it down on there being 5+ goals in that game, thanks a lot Leno

TheadoreT

thebaz wrote: »

I'd say its far more open than anytime , liverpool with ther injuries will slip , just going through a good patch - loads of teams underneath -which is good, far from boring given the lack of crowds.

They're getting players back and already look the best by a reasonable amount without them. People always say it'll be tight and rarely is, especially difficult to make a case for it this season.

thebaz

TheadoreT wrote: »

They're getting players back and already look the best by a reasonable amount without them. People always say it'll be tight and rarely is, especially difficult to make a case for it this season.

Premier league has been tight loads this decade , if you think its boring dont watch it, most would disagree - Liverpool are not as strong as last year - fact, and many are catching up - which is good.

TheadoreT

thebaz wrote: »

Premier league has been tight loads this decade , if you think its boring dont watch it, most would disagree - Liverpool are not as strong as last year - fact, and many are catching up - which is good.

In 7 of the last 10 years its been won by 6 or more points, the emphasis on the more side of that in most of them.

What specific side/s are you making a case to run them close this season?

thebaz

TheadoreT wrote: »

In 7 of the last 10 years its been won by 6 or more points, the emphasis on the more side of that in most of them.

What specific side/s are you making a case to run them close this season?

Spurs, United and City - Its hip to knock the Premier league , loads do , but the reality is most enjoy it, and other leagues are way more boring.

~Rebel~

TheadoreT wrote: »

In 7 of the last 10 years its been won by 6 or more points, the emphasis on the more side of that in most of them.

What specific side/s are you making a case to run them close this season?

The biggest part of the point is that you don’t need to pick a side that’ll challenge - it just takes any one of the 7 sides within 6 points of the top (or Man City) to go on a decent run.

Maybe it’ll happen, maybe it won’t, but things are interestingly placed right now.

(And as an additional contrast to last year, even with last weeks away win ‘pool are only 9th in the league on away games)

TheadoreT

~Rebel~ wrote: »

The biggest part of the point is that you don’t need to pick a side that’ll challenge - it just takes any one of the 7 sides within 6 points of the top (or Man City) to go on a decent run.

Maybe it’ll happen, maybe it won’t, but things are interestingly placed right now.

(And as an additional contrast to last year, even with last weeks away win ‘pool are only 9th in the league on away games)

But the point is nobody has even looked semi capable of putting a run together to challenge deep into the season. Liverpool put 18 points on City last year and City have regressed a fair bit since, Liverpool put 33+ on the rest of the league. Havent seen anything to suggest a side have improved enough to bridge that class gap, and Liverpool can only improve with players returning.

They'll stretch out again.

magma69

thebaz wrote: »

Spurs, United and City - Its hip to knock the Premier league , loads do , but the reality is most enjoy it, and other leagues are way more boring.

United and Spurs aren't realistically challenging for titles this season imo.

Shanotheslayer

Wow DCL that could have been amazing

thebaz

magma69 wrote: »

United and Spurs aren't realistically challenging for titles this season imo.

well lets see in a few months , already been a crazy season

cj maxx

Liverpool, I think, will win this league. And by a comfortable margin because of their consistency. However in the PL there is always a Villa or Fulham etc to pull out an unexpected result. Then you have big teams like City and United who can put runs together and keep it interesting.

niallo27

magma69 wrote: »

United and Spurs aren't realistically challenging for titles this season imo.

United maybe but spurs are miles away. They will just keep dropping silly points.

magma69

thebaz wrote: »

well lets see in a few months , already been a crazy season

It'd be good for the league if you were right.

chicorytip

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Abraham is not a top class striker, is a decent player, but not top class. Would do a job for many teams in the EPL, and is OK if Chelsea have 75/80% possession, but when games are tight against top sides he's not good enough.

At what point does Roman get browned off with Frank? Will he be as ruthless with him as he has been with previous managers, or does Frank's playing career save him, because he has done little on the sidelines to earn any real trust from what I've seen.

Werner and Havertz just seem like marquee signings. They are both highly talented but need to be properly integrated and become first choice selections. It's bizarre that Abraham and Pulisic should start ahead of them. Chilwell is a poor defender and gets caught out of position too often. The goalkeeper made a dreadful error for the third Arsenal goal.

Nunu

I really like Pulisic. Wouldn’t be dropping him.

yourdeadwright

Lets not forget we arent as many games in as we would normally be at thsi stage of the calendar year,
Ots stull very very early for predictions on leauge winners

theoneeyedman

Fitz* wrote: »

How long before the Chelsea fans turn on Lampard?

Turned on Mourinho, Solari, AVB, Di Matteo, Sarri, Conte etc. in the recent past.

Or the players..... They have proven fickle in recent years where managers are concerned, but maybe with the likes of Terry gone from the club and Hazard, then maybe Frank will be safe from that angle.

magma69

City should have this game wrapped up already.

yourdeadwright

I still think if u finish above City you'll won the league this year

TheadoreT

City probably are the best of the poor chasing lot but still havent strung 3 games together in the league this season. Compare them to a few years ago when they had a formidable spine to the side with Kompany and Fernandinho(Yaya before him) and Kun firing on all cylinders. Their top scorer in the league has 4 goals this season, KDB looks a shadow of himself, they're just not that good at the moment

ERG89

Everton have probably played better in some of their defeats this season but Sheffield United would need a miracle at this stage to survive. Even with so many single goal defeats their results are matching the performances.

Shanotheslayer

Blow it up ref

Shanotheslayer

Everton V City next game should be a decent one

8-10

cj maxx wrote: »

Liverpool, I think, will win this league. And by a comfortable margin because of their consistency. However in the PL there is always a Villa or Fulham etc to pull out an unexpected result. Then you have big teams like City and United who can put runs together and keep it interesting.

Retaining the league is nearly impossible these days. Pep's City, the best team the league has seen, only did it once, barely, by a single point 2 years ago after a 98pt season.

Before that the last time the PL was retained Ryan Giggs was PFA Player of the Year, Leicester City were in League One and Tony Adams was a PL manager

Was an incredibly tall order for Liverpool before a ball was kicked and the injuries have made it even harder

thelad95

Where exactly is the hype over City coming from? Last three games they drew with relegation fodder West Brom beat Southampton in a game that could have gone either way and were somewhat unconvincing tonight against further relegation fodder. I think Everton will take points off them and they'll yet again be outside the top 4.

This City team is an extremely pale shadow of the 2017-2019 team or even the side that began to falter last season and had handed the title to Liverpool by Christmas.

8-10

8-10 wrote: »

Retaining the league is nearly impossible these days.

By "these days" you mean since it was done by City the season before last?

Before that it was Chelsea - Leicester - Chelsea. 2 in 3 years.

Before that it was a sequence of City, Man Utd and Chelsea over 10 years when 1 of them won it twice in a row and another won it 3 times in a row.

In fact in 15 years Leicester is the only side that has not retained the league.

So your "fact" is...well...awful...

SEPT 23 1989

thelad95 wrote: »

Where exactly is the hype over City coming from? Last three games they drew with relegation fodder West Brom beat Southampton in a game that could have gone either way and were somewhat unconvincing tonight against further relegation fodder. I think Everton will take points off them and they'll yet again be outside the top 4.

This City team is an extremely pale shadow of the 2017-2019 team or even the side that began to falter last season and had handed the title to Liverpool by Christmas.

It's not from city fans

If we win the league playing like we have it just confirms how much of a shambles these covid seasons are

Cannot wait till this is all forgotten about and we get back to normal

Utopia Parkway

City do seem a bit more solid defensively these days but they've definitely lost a fair bit of attacking flair. They are not that exciting to watch at the moment even though they are grinding out results.

Fitz*

Aguero's return may see a return to more free scoring Man City. Especially with their very attractive looking January period fixtures against all bottom half teams - Brighton, WBA, Palace, SHU, Burnley. Would be expecting 15 points there and plenty of goals.

magma69

8-10 wrote: »

Retaining the league is nearly impossible these days. Pep's City, the best team the league has seen, only did it once, barely, by a single point 2 years ago after a 98pt season.

Before that the last time the PL was retained Ryan Giggs was PFA Player of the Year, Leicester City were in League One and Tony Adams was a PL manager

Was an incredibly tall order for Liverpool before a ball was kicked and the injuries have made it even harder

Liverpool are 5/6 at the bookies and next are City at 2/1. Other teams are silly odds 13/1, 16/1 and so on.

I'm not sure what your motivation is behind dishonestly downplaying Liverpool's chances but we both know it's nonsense. It appears to be a two horse race with a City victory considered an upset and anyone else winning it being a shocker.

JPA

Fitz* wrote: »

Aguero's return may see a return to more free scoring Man City. Especially with their very attractive looking January period fixtures against all bottom half teams - Brighton, WBA, Palace, SHU, Burnley. Would be expecting 15 points there and plenty of goals.

But what's the story with Aguero? He's only made 4 appearances, no sign of him getting back to real form and fitness.

8-10

magma69 wrote: »

It appears to be a two horse race

2 seasons ago it was a 2 horse race. This year there's many more teams involved and the Champions have lost a game 7-2.

You can pretend there's only 2 teams in it but that's not reality. Chelsea lost today so the kneejerkers will say they're out of the race but they're not. 2 weeks ago everyone was talking about Spurs. United fans on their thread today were talking about winning the title this season, something they haven't done in years, after a draw, with a team that are ahead of them in the table and have won a PL title more recently. And then there's City and Liverpool.

8-10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

By "these days" you mean since it was done by City the season before last?

Did you stop reading my post after the first sentence?

Fitz*

JPA wrote: »

But what's the story with Aguero? He's only made 4 appearances, no sign of him getting back to real form and fitness.

Being worked back to full fitness is my guess.

Maybe there's the side issue of a new contract / pre contract with another club. If I remember correctly, his contact expires during the summer.

8-10

8-10 wrote: »

Did you stop reading my post after the first sentence?

No, I laughed at it right through to the end as you tried to make a ridiculous point.

Here's a better way of phrasing it...

"Before 2020, 4 clubs won the league in 15 years. 3 of them won it consecutively".

8-10

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, I laughed at it right through to the end as you tried to make a ridiculous point.

Here's a better way of phrasing it...

"Before 2020, 4 clubs won the league in 15 years. 3 of them won it consecutively".

...which is very commonly known as retaining the title

You don't use that phrase to talk about winning multiple ones in non-consecutive years

8-10

8-10 wrote: »

...which is very commonly known as retaining the title

Yep, we can phrase it that way too...

"Of all the clubs to win the title over 15 years, only 1 has failed to retain it"

Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea all won it and retained it in that time...

TheadoreT

It's almost a default title for Liverpool this season with most traditional contenders in transition or just plain average...

d22ontour

Don't think that Liverpool have any challengers this season, they have been missing some key players and are looking like putting a win streak together.

amber69

Liverpool have two challengers this season.. VAR and injuries.

TheadoreT

I think fans hit peak cringeworthy when they start to assume the role of downplaying their sides obvious chances. I'm unsure whether it's just ultra disingenuous behaviour or they're a bit delusional thinking that not getting ahead of themselves has an influence like they're a manager saying let's take it a game at a time but either way it's baffling to read.

8-10

TheadoreT wrote: »

I think fans hit peak cringeworthy when they start to assume the role of downplaying their sides obvious chances. I'm unsure whether it's just ultra disingenuous behaviour or they're a bit delusional thinking that not getting ahead of themselves has an influence like they're a manager saying let's take it a game at a time but either way it's baffling to read.

And on the flip side you're talking about a 'default' title....

Brendan Flowers

TheadoreT wrote: »

I think fans hit peak cringeworthy when they start to assume the role of downplaying their sides obvious chances. I'm unsure whether it's just ultra disingenuous behaviour or they're a bit delusional thinking that not getting ahead of themselves has an influence like they're a manager saying let's take it a game at a time but either way it's baffling to read.

My take on it is that some fans know their team are absolute favourites to win the title. But they talk down the teams chances so that when the title is won, they can claim it was a win against all odds, one of the greatest achievements of all time, stuff of legends, etc. Which is bizarre because whether you're red hot favourites or the next Leicester City, winning the title is an fantastic achievement anyways.

~Rebel~

TheadoreT wrote: »

I think fans hit peak cringeworthy when they start to assume the role of downplaying their sides obvious chances. I'm unsure whether it's just ultra disingenuous behaviour or they're a bit delusional thinking that not getting ahead of themselves has an influence like they're a manager saying let's take it a game at a time but either way it's baffling to read.

They're obviously favourites, but saying it's theirs by default is silly.

It's only 2 weeks since Spurs were top of the league, and Liverpool's away form still currently reads - Played 7, Won 2. This year will be nothing as procession-like as last year because of form like that.

I think they will win it, but equally I wouldn't be betting my house on it, and I also wouldn't be betting against someone else putting up enough of a decent run to keep things interesting - no-one is talking about pulling out 20 wins in a row here, just keeping a solid 2+ ppg.

And one could argue it's easier for someone like Utd to fix their home form than for Liverpool to fix their away form.

~Rebel~

Brendan Flowers wrote: »

My take on it is that some fans know their team are absolute favourites to win the title. But they talk down the teams chances so that when the title is won, they can claim it was a win against all odds, one of the greatest achievements of all time, stuff of legends, etc. Which is bizarre because whether you're red hot favourites or the next Leicester City, winning the title is an fantastic achievement anyways.

Or, instead of some weird devious plot to claim underdog status, people - not just football fans - tend to try to avoid counting their chickens before they're hatched. People guard their emotions and their hopes because they don't want to leave themselves too open to disappointment. It's fairly normal, and fairly human...

~Rebel~

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Or, instead of some weird devious plot to claim underdog status, people - not just football fans - tend to try to avoid counting their chickens before they're hatched. People guard their emotions and their hopes because they don't want to leave themselves too open to disappointment. It's fairly normal, and fairly human...

Which is a good explanation of why someone downplays chances when analysing matters themselves, or amongst friends.

But guarding emotions on an anonymous forum?

Another possible explanation is that it's a bit of a wind up, something that perhaps starts as an opinion and then becomes a mantra, like "living rent free". It just needs someone to parse it down into a catchy phrase.

2 points ahead. Only 72 to play for.

As good as over...

Potential Underachiever

You can't really win, you're either playing the role of an insincere underdog or you're accused of giving it the big 'un if you were telling all and sundry how your team is the best and going to walk the league.

Potential Underachiever

Potential Underachiever wrote: »

You can't really win, you're either playing the role of an insincere underdog or you're accused of giving it the big 'un if you were telling all and sundry how your team is the best and going to walk the league.

There is surely a big space for analysis between "we're underdogs" and "we'll walk it"...