General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

Potential Underachiever

Deleted User wrote: »

There is surely a big space for analysis between "we're underdogs" and "we'll walk it"...

There is indeed, but you'll still be pigeon holed by some posters on here.

~Rebel~

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is surely a big space for analysis between "we're underdogs" and "we'll walk it"...

And I’d say that’s the space most Liverpool fans occupy. Currently pleasantly surprised that even with a lot of injuries - particularly a season ending one to the lad who most would probably recognise as the key addition that turned Liverpool into serious challengers - Liverpool are probably still just about the best team in the league.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which is a good explanation of why someone downplays chances when analysing matters themselves, or amongst friends.

But guarding emotions on an anonymous forum?

Another possible explanation is that it's a bit of a wind up, something that perhaps starts as an opinion and then becomes a mantra, like "living rent free". It just needs someone to parse it down into a catchy phrase.

First of all it’s not really some throwaway anonymous thing when most of us have been posting here consistently for years.

But also, what’s anonymity got to do with anything? What I’m talking about isn’t protecting yourself against some fella saying ‘I told ya so’, but the very normal thing of keeping your hopes and expectations in check.

I also just don’t get your point that the conclusion you personally reach would for some reason not be what you say to strangers? Why would someone guard their expectations internally but be full of bluster or some weird gaslighting to strangers? That sounds like you expect trolling to be the default in dealing with strangers?

TheadoreT

~Rebel~ wrote: »

And I’d say that’s the space most Liverpool fans occupy. Currently pleasantly surprised that even with a lot of injuries - particularly a season ending one to the lad who most would probably recognise as the key addition that turned Liverpool into serious challengers - Liverpool are probably still just about the best team in the league.




First of all it’s not really some throwaway anonymous thing when most of us have been posting here consistently for years.

But also, what’s anonymity got to do with anything? What I’m talking about isn’t protecting yourself against some fella saying ‘I told ya so’, but the very normal thing of keeping your hopes and expectations in check.

I also just don’t get your point that the conclusion you personally reach would for some reason not be what you say to strangers? Why would someone guard their expectations internally but be full of bluster or some weird gaslighting to strangers? That sounds like you expect trolling to be the default in dealing with strangers?

But you're focusing way too much on Liverpool. 3rd place last season had 66 points. The lowest tally for 3rd since the 97/98 season when Liverpool got 65 points behind United and Arsenal. This sort of class gap doesn't get breached over a season. It's takes something dramatic like when Chelsea broke United/arsenal's dominance back then in 04 after unprecedented investment.

Maybe the complete outlier that was Leicester forged some sort of anything can happen mentality in fans minds and adds some often needed tension in proceedings that may be lacking. But the league has been largely ultra predictable and monumental improvement doesn't tend to happen overnight.

~Rebel~

TheadoreT wrote: »

But you're focusing way too much on Liverpool. 3rd place last season had 66 points. The lowest tally for 3rd since the 97/98 season when Liverpool got 65 points behind United and Arsenal. This sort of class gap doesn't get breached over a season. It's takes something dramatic like when Chelsea broke United/arsenal's dominance back then in 04 after unprecedented investment.

Maybe the complete outlier that was Leicester forged some sort of anything can happen mentality in fans minds and adds some often needed tension in proceedings that may be lacking. But the league has been largely ultra predictable and monumental improvement doesn't tend to happen overnight.

Why are ya jumping to 3rd? 2nd got 81 points... that’s probably enough for a serious title challenge this year. It’s gonna be won with a far more attainable number than the past 3 years. Again no one is saying everyone is gonna challenge, just that a fair few teams are in an alright position to. We can expect the top teams to get less points, and the next few to get more - that 66 3rd last year likely won’t be repeated, the previous year 5 teams broke 70 points. With Chelsea’s much improved squad, Utds hugely impressive away form, and Mourinhos Spurs wildcard, things are interesting.

Maybe they will challenge, maybe they won’t, but I’ve no idea why someone would be so eager to just write off the league after 14 games, especially while the leader has such patchy away form.

TheadoreT

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Why are ya jumping to 3rd? 2nd got 81 points... that’s probably enough for a serious title challenge this year. It’s gonna be won with a far more attainable number than the past 3 years. Again no one is saying everyone is gonna challenge, just that a fair few teams are in an alright position to. We can expect the top teams to get less points, and the next few to get more - that 66 3rd last year likely won’t be repeated, the previous year 5 teams broke 70 points. With Chelsea’s much improved squad, Utds hugely impressive away form, and Mourinhos Spurs wildcard, things are interesting.

Maybe they will challenge, maybe they won’t, but I’ve no idea why someone would be so eager to just write off the league after 14 games, especially while the leader has such patchy away form.

We've already discussed City, I wouldn't use the word regressing with them as they've more financial muscle than anyone to bounce back but right now the sum of their parts is pretty underwhelming. Aside from goalkeeper there isn't one area of that side you'd be happy with right now.

You can keep using a tiny sample of away games to downplay the inevitable but its lacking much bigger picture logic. Find it hard to comprehend how anyone can watch/access the relative abilities of these sides in recent seasons and in this one and not come to the same conclusion.

~Rebel~

TheadoreT wrote: »

We've already discussed City, I wouldn't use the word regressing with them as they've more financial muscle than anyone to bounce back but right now the sum of their parts is pretty underwhelming. Aside from goalkeeper there isn't one area of that side you'd be happy with right now.

You can keep using a tiny sample of away games to downplay the inevitable but its lacking much bigger picture logic. Find it hard to comprehend how anyone can watch/access the relative abilities of these sides in recent seasons and in this one and not come to the same conclusion.

Because it’s football! That’s literally the point of watching football, that it throws up interesting events.

You find it hard to comprehend that a team can be favourites without the whole thing being a foregone conclusion with 24 matches to go?

Shanotheslayer

Until Liverpool start dropping points at home I can't see them not winning the league

3 draws in the last 3 season(including this current one). So you can probably expect them to get about 53 points out of a total 57 from home.

Last year away they got 44 points
The year before that they also got 44 points

This year they're currently looking at 25 points assuming the numbers stay the same. I highly doubt this team only manage to get 25 points away from home. I would be thinking around the 30-35 mark given what they capable of and that also is a decrease in points the last few years.

So I've them at an expected points of 83-87 points which I can't see anyone beating. Which is about an average PL title win

TheadoreT

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Because it’s football! That’s literally the point of watching football, that it throws up interesting events.

You find it hard to comprehend that a team can be favourites without the whole thing being a foregone conclusion with 24 matches to go?

My whole point is it seldom throws up "interesting events", and fans blow the extremely rare occasion it does happen out of proportion to add excitement where there is none. Most leagues are entirely predictable. You'd be lucky if one of the big 5 leagues throws up a close finish in any given season.

My enjoyment comes from watching beautiful football rather than needing to create teneous drama/ illogical scenarios to keep my interest.

8-10

TheadoreT wrote: »

My enjoyment comes from watching beautiful football rather than needing to create teneous drama/ illogical scenarios to keep my interest.

A team that isn't Liverpool winning the league is not an illogical scenario, that's the point that you keep ignoring over and over to suit your argument that it's a 'default' title.

Liverpool are favorites but for me there's more teams in the mix this year than last, coupled with Liverpool unlikely to even match their runner up form from 2 seasons ago due to injuries and fatigue from the very high standards over the past 2 years.

We don't look like a 97 or 99pt team this year, and many other top teams have improved, mainly Chelsea, United and Spurs.

And the point I made, which isn't unique to fans you hear this in the media a lot, is that it's hard to win back to back titles, arguably harder to win the 2nd.

For you it's a default title and we don't even need to watch the rest of the season to know who wins but I fully disagree. I think Chelsea are the dark horse this year

A team winning a league title by default before half the games have been played is an illogical scenario

TheadoreT

The needs of your typical premier League fan is akin to a womans for sex, they need a narrative to turn them on, however fanciful, and the visuals don't matter as much to them. It's why sky sports hype machine is so successful, they're the best lovers as they provide all the foreplay, "7 team title challenge" - oooh I love it when you talk dirty Ed Chamberlain.... "Super Sunday" - more more..... "Relegation 6 pointer" - I'm almost there don't stop..... " Agueroooooooooooooooooooo"

Shanotheslayer

TheadoreT wrote: »

The needs of your typical premier League fan is akin to a womans for sex, they need a narrative to turn them on, however fanciful, and the visuals don't matter as much to them. It's why sky sports hype machine is so successful, they're the best lovers as they provide all the foreplay, "7 team title challenge" - oooh I love it when you talk dirty Ed Chamberlain.... "Super Sunday" - more more..... "Relegation 6 pointer" - I'm almost there don't stop..... " Agueroooooooooooooooooooo"

Dafuq did I just read

ctrl-alt-delete

Ridiculous to rule that goal out there.

CSF

That is right up there with the most cowardly refereeing I've ever seen.

Unearthly

Terrible decision

Shanotheslayer

Awful decision

eigrod

Yet again, English officials making an absolute balls of VAR. They haven’t a clue.

CSF

eigrod wrote: »

Yet again, English officials making an absolute balls of VAR. They haven’t a clue.

It was the on field ref who screwed it up aswell I think, by blowing the whistle before the ball goes in.


That was the kind of refereeing that should see a lad in League 2 for a few months. Undefendably bad.

Abel Ruiz

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

Ridiculous to rule that goal out there.

But the whistle went before the ball was in the net.
The ref thought it is was foul and blew straight away.
I think that should have been a peno.

Abel Ruiz

TheadoreT wrote: »

The needs of your typical premier League fan is akin to a womans for sex, they need a narrative to turn them on, however fanciful, and the visuals don't matter as much to them. It's why sky sports hype machine is so successful, they're the best lovers as they provide all the foreplay, "7 team title challenge" - oooh I love it when you talk dirty Ed Chamberlain.... "Super Sunday" - more more..... "Relegation 6 pointer" - I'm almost there don't stop..... " Agueroooooooooooooooooooo"

Are you still drunk from yesterday???
Ed chamberlain is gone over to the horse racing on itv!!!!!!

ctrl-alt-delete

Abel Ruiz wrote: »

But the whistle went before the ball was in the net.
The ref thought it is was foul and blew straight away.
I think that should have been a peno.

Well you know what I mean, if he had have gotten the initial decision right and let play go.

~Rebel~

Shanotheslayer wrote: »

Until Liverpool start dropping points at home I can't see them not winning the league

3 draws in the last 3 season(including this current one). So you can probably expect them to get about 53 points out of a total 57 from home.

Last year away they got 44 points
The year before that they also got 44 points

This year they're currently looking at 25 points assuming the numbers stay the same. I highly doubt this team only manage to get 25 points away from home. I would be thinking around the 30-35 mark given what they capable of and that also is a decrease in points the last few years.

So I've them at an expected points of 83-87 points which I can't see anyone beating. Which is about an average PL title win

Yup, I’d pretty much agree with all that.

Still, you have to actually go out and win all those matches every week, which is not always as easy as it looks on paper as games like Villa, Fulham, and Brighton show.

I reserve the right to not go celebrating another league win for a few months yet

Shanotheslayer

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Yup, I’d pretty much agree with all that.

Still, you have to actually go out and win all those matches every week, which is not always as easy as it looks on paper as games like Villa, Fulham, and Brighton show.

I reserve the right to not go celebrating another league win for a few months yet

Absolutely, and I think it's foolish if anybody think's the league is wrapped up, but I do think come the end of it there won't be a shock. If anything there could be a shock to the top 4 with so many teams battling it out.

I think Everton are capable of a draw against City so no doubt other teams pick up points etc. Think the top 4 battle will be very back and forward.

4 points seperating 2nd and 9th with a few teams with games in hand etc.

kowloonkev

Pitch at Elland Road doesn't look the best.

yourdeadwright

Matip injured could be a few weeks at least
Liverpool down to a 19 year old and a CB as there options

beggars_bush

Finally a card for Klopp giving out

Liam O

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Matip injured could be a few weeks at least
Liverpool down to a 19 year old and a CB as there options

Injury prone player in injury shocker!

Mr.Crinklewood

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Matip injured could be a few weeks at least
Liverpool down to a 19 year old and a CB as there options

Have they used all subs?. Phillips was on the bench.

Shanotheslayer

Curtis lack of experiencing showing there.

Decent baller all the same but that's a shocker of a moment

klose

How late was that offside flag?

y0ssar1an22

that was as bad as rashfords miss yesterday

Bleating Lamb

Who will Klopp blame for this?;)

y0ssar1an22

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Who will Klopp blame for this?;)

not over yet

his players i suppose. not great in the 2nd half. although mane should possibly have had a peno

DeanAustin

I don't like Allardyce. But this is why people like him, Pulis and Moyes are in demand. I'd even throw Steve Bruce into the mix.

Their styles aren't great, they may not have fancy foreign names but they know how to pick up points. West Brom were good value for that second half.

Mane was far too honest in that game. Furlong had his hands around his neck in the box twice and all Mane needed to do was go down and he would have got the penalty.

tayto lover

Liverpool deserved what they got.
Great game plan Sam.

8-10

Some save by Johnstone. That's your matchwinner. Unreal save, I'm still stunned by it.

El Gato De Negocios

For all the stick Big Sam gets he is a wily oul fox. Considering the very light Christmas schedule lfc have had compared to their peers thats a highly embarrassing result.

citytillidie

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

For all the stick Big Sam gets he is a wily oul fox. Considering the very light Christmas schedule lfc have had compared to their peers thats a highly embarrassing result.

lol each team has played one game this Christmas break :pac:

El Gato De Negocios

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

For all the stick Big Sam gets he is a wily oul fox. Considering the very light Christmas schedule lfc have had compared to their peers thats a highly embarrassing result.

Same with United. Dropping points against Leicester when they should have had it won. Only difference is Liverpool are still top of the league with 3 main centre backs out while United have an 80 million pound flop in Maguire starting every game.

DeanAustin

8-10 wrote: »

Some save by Johnstone. That's your matchwinner. Unreal save, I'm still stunned by it.

As good a save as I've seen in a long time. It's headed down, from a few yards towards the corner. Firmino has done everything right. It's a stunning save.

Esse85

Big Sam will be happy with that point.

jayo26

What an absolute glorious Christmas present thanks sam you're the real father christmas.

Great game for us neutrals tho i thought west brom played a blinder second half, hard to believe they were playing the team top of the table.

El Gato De Negocios

citytillidie wrote: »

lol each team has played one game this Christmas break :pac:

Liverpool have not played in 9 days, there were league Cup games midweek featuring United, City, Spurs and Arsenal, ergo, a lighter festive schedule for LFC and an embarrassing draw against relegation candidates.

Liamalone

Big Sam saves Christmas!

8-10

It's also only the 4th game at Anfield that Liverpool have dropped points in, since the 2017/18 season

Just like the Burnley draw (the only one at home last season), it's giving points to a team who aren't a threat so could be worse. United next up.

A teenager losing the run of himself in midfield leading to another teenager having a poor header to concede a corner for a weird bounce of a ball coming onto the pitch from the post and spinning back into the goal is what got WBA a result. Neither of those players play if we didn't have the injuries we have this season.

That's just how it goes sometimes, for some people Liverpool have already won the title by default, this game shows that anyone can get a result and that's away points for WBA against City and Liverpool in consecutive away games

tayto lover

West Brom will feel a little hard done by. Could have won that.

El Gato De Negocios

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Same with United. Dropping points against Leicester when they should have had it won. Only difference is Liverpool are still top of the league with 3 main centre backs out while United have an 80 million pound flop in Maguire starting every game.

Not sure what United have to do with it tbh. They dropped points against a top 4 rival, not against a team second from bottom. Lfc are also league and world champions, United have been struggling for quite some time.

8-10

tayto lover wrote: »

West Brom will feel a little hard done by. Could have won that.

Ah steady on now! Their keeper made probably the save of the season late on to secure a point they'll be delighted with it.

thebaz

thebaz wrote: »

I'd say its far more open than anytime , liverpool with ther injuries will slip , just going through a good patch - loads of teams underneath -which is good, far from boring given the lack of crowds.

a few shot me down last night for saying liverpool might slip - diodnt take long - ha

~Rebel~

El Gato De Negocios wrote: »

Liverpool have not played in 9 days, there were league Cup games midweek featuring United, City, Spurs and Arsenal, ergo, a lighter festive schedule for LFC and an embarrassing draw against relegation candidates.

What have those other teams got to do with this fixture? Neither Liverpool or West Brom played this week, surely that’s all that’s relevant?

As I was saying earlier, it doesn’t matter that these games look easier on paper, it’s not easy to go out there and break teams down every week.

West Brom did exactly what they set out to - frustrate and stifle the game, keep playing best in their third off the pitch, and then just take a chance on the break off from a set piece. Worked out well from them today.

As for embarrassment... *shrug*, I dunno, I guess some people are easily embarrassed? Most will realise this is the reality of a full season of football.