General Premier League Thread 2020-21 - Mod Notes in 1st post. [Updated 17/12/20]

8-10

Fitz* wrote: »

As is tradition in this thread.

The so called 'best African player in the league' Aubameyang tonight;

Mins: 90
Goals: 0
Assists: 0
Shots on target: 0
Shots off target: 0
Shots blocked: 0
Dribble success: 0%
Key passes: 0
Accurate crosses: 0
Interceptions: 0
Caught offside: 1
Possession lost: 15

How did the signing of the summer Willian play?

Cookiemunster

Just seen the Klopp/Keane so called clash on Sky News. Klopp heard one out of context word and went off on a rant, Keane said you need to listen to the whole clip in context and Klopp said OK I will. Much ado about nothing really.

Fitz*

8-10 wrote: »

How did the signing of the summer Willian play?

Mins: 68
Goals: 0
Assists: 0
Shots on target: 0
Shots off target: 0
Shots blocked: 0
Dribble success: 0%
Key passes: 1 (he actually only completed 9 passes)
Accurate crosses: 0
Interceptions: 0
Caught offside: 1
Possession lost: 4

8-10

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Just seen the Klopp/Keane so called clash on Sky News. Klopp heard one out of context word and went off on a rant, Keane said you need to listen to the whole clip in context and Klopp said OK I will. Much ado about nothing really.

Klopp used it to make a point. I thought he summed the game up really well. Rant or not he comes across honest in interviews like that.

Arteta also spoke very well I thought. Arsenal should give him time and I think they'll improve under him.

gimli2112

yeah it wasn't a big deal, the main thing I took from it was how furiously Klopp defends his team against criticism, at least when he feels it is unwarranted

Turtyturd

Fitz* wrote: »

Mins: 68
Goals: 0
Assists: 0
Shots on target: 0
Shots off target: 0
Shots blocked: 0
Dribble success: 0%
Key passes: 1 (he actually only completed 9 passes)
Accurate crosses: 0
Interceptions: 0
Caught offside: 1
Possession lost: 4

And finally the one we’re all waiting for...did 72 million pound Pepe dribble past Van Dijk?

Fitz*

Turtyturd wrote: »

And finally the one we’re all waiting for...did 72 million pound Pepe dribble past Van Dijk?

Nobody did! Or has done this season so far

8-10

Turtyturd wrote: »

And finally the one we’re all waiting for...did 72 million pound Pepe dribble past Van Dijk?

Insane transfer fee everytime I see it

Also where was Ozil tonight? They seem to pay him an awful lot of money not to sit on the bench.

I thought he'd have come on at 2-1 for sure

Fitz*

8-10 wrote: »

Klopp used it to make a point. I thought he summed the game up really well. Rant or not he comes across honest in interviews like that.

Arteta also spoke very well I thought. Arsenal should give him time and I think they'll improve under him.

Yeah I like Arteta. He seems sound.

I think he will have Arsenal competing at the right end of the table this season and as a neutral I would have more faith in Arteta than Parker, Lampard or OGS in terms of the ex players as managers.

DVDM93

Me reading Fitz's posts & 8-10 & Turtyturd's replies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trELKmUPoyU

thebaz

thebaz wrote: »

growing up with Howard Kendals 80s team , football was played the right way , Royles Everton were dogged , but I didnt have the same love as I had back for the 80s team - winners playing the right way.

In the mid to late 80s, Everton v Liverpool was a battle between easily the best 2 sides in the English league, possibly in Europe though the ban meant that couldn't be tested. And Kendall's side often outplayed Liverpool.

By the 90s, both sides had fallen well off that level as teams like Man Utd and Arsenal took over, Leeds and Blackburn won titles, even Newcastle were at a higher level. So the Liverpool derby was less relevant.

Klopp hears one word, misses the context goes on a rant and lads applaud him for him. Nice to see click bait is well and truly alive.

I suppose it what happens when lads seem to get all their news from twitter.

Keane back tracked anyway. I like him for sound bites but he's an awful pundit. Offers nothing more than the man in the local. It's not hard to see why he never made it as a manager.

6

6 wrote: »

Keane back tracked anyway. I like him for sound bites but he's an awful pundit. Offers nothing more than the man in the local. It's not hard to see why he never made it as a manager.

He told Klopp to watch it back, so not back tracking.

Awful pundit id agree, but seems to suit the twitter generation.

All soundbites and not seemingly able to discuss football on a serious level. They love the "banter" also

L'prof

Deleted User wrote: »

Klopp hears one word, misses the context goes on a rant and lads applaud him for him. Nice to see click bait is well and truly alive.

I suppose it what happens when lads seem to get all their news from twitter.

Klopp is fast turning into Mourinho in his first stint at Chelsea for me. Everyone loved him at first because he was refreshing but I’m quickly losing interest in hearing what he has to say in interviews. I’m no fan of Keane but attacking him after not even hearing what he said Pool fans will love him for it of course

gimli2112

Success breeds contempt but there's no comparison between Klopp and that particular despicable human being.

ThunbergsAreGo

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Just seen the Klopp/Keane so called clash on Sky News. Klopp heard one out of context word and went off on a rant, Keane said you need to listen to the whole clip in context and Klopp said OK I will. Much ado about nothing really.

Keane is the worst "pundit", no insight just nonsense for joe.ie

The ultimate Pub Pundit. Turns me off watching Sky ir whatever he is on.

L'prof

gimli2112 wrote: »

Success breeds contempt but there's no comparison between Klopp and that particular despicable human being.

There is I’m afraid when you look at his interactions with the media. Maybe all managers are the same to a certain extent, don’t take criticism very well, but Mourinho and now Klopp take it to the extreme. They won the game 3-1, he could easily have laughed it off even if Keane had said what he thought he had but he’s obviously touched a nerve there. I never took to Mourinho but I did like Klopp

Arghus

L'prof wrote: »

There is I’m afraid when you look at his interactions with the media. Maybe all managers are the same to a certain extent, don’t take criticism very well, but Mourinho and now Klopp take it to the extreme. They won the game 3-1, he could easily have laughed it off even if Keane had said what he thought he had but he’s obviously touched a nerve there. I never took to Mourinho but I did like Klopp

Ah, it didn't come across like that. Keane was grinning away to himself when Klopp brought it up. There really wasn't much too it. A bit of craic to keep us entertained. There's no comparison with how Klopp comes across in the media to how Mourinho did at Chelsea. Klopp can be guilty of talking a bit too much and he's occasionally prickly, but he's a far warmer character than Jose and he doesn't try to stir things up for attention.They're completely different.

Jose used to say things that were completely out of order all the time, he was a cynical shyestirrer - and he was nasty and personal: remember the quotes about Wenger being a voyuer, totally uncalled for low stuff. That was the kind of spiteful stuff he came out with in the media.

Klopp gets defensive every so often, but that's really it, he didn't attack Keane personally or belittle him, mainly he praised his players. Jose would have stuck the knife into Keane in some way - bit of a ridiculous comparison IMO.

DVDM93

Would a neutral mind helping me out here & offering an opinion on this please & thank you in advance? The opinion of Arsenal & Liverpool fans welcome too of course.

To me the referee is disappointed when Laca didn't score. This is very strange behaviour for a referee of all people who is supposed to be the most neutral person involved in the game. I can forgive the likes of biased commentators like Martin Tyler but referees are a different story altogether. I'm sure that's just me seeing things through rose-tinted glasses however & I'm hoping someone can shed some light for me.

https://twitter.com/blakaende2/status/1310686563026825219?s=20

L'prof

DVDM93 wrote: »

Would a neutral mind helping me out here & offering an opinion on this please & thank you in advance? The opinion of Arsenal & Liverpool fans welcome too of course.

To me the referee is disappointed when Laca didn't score. This is very strange behaviour for a referee of all people who is supposed to be the most neutral person involved in the game. I can forgive the likes of biased commentators like Martin Tyler but referees are a different story altogether. I'm sure that's just me seeing things through rose-tinted glasses however & I'm hoping someone can shed some light for me.

https://twitter.com/blakaende2/status/1310686563026825219?s=20

Mike Dean v Arsenal is a prime example

Mushy

DVDM93 wrote: »

Would a neutral mind helping me out here & offering an opinion on this please & thank you in advance? The opinion of Arsenal & Liverpool fans welcome too of course.

To me the referee is disappointed when Laca didn't score. This is very strange behaviour for a referee of all people who is supposed to be the most neutral person involved in the game. I can forgive the likes of biased commentators like Martin Tyler but referees are a different story altogether. I'm sure that's just me seeing things through rose-tinted glasses however & I'm hoping someone can shed some light

Captained him in fantasy I'd say!

Arghus

Absolutely nothing in that, people reading far too much into a split second of body language.

If the ref was a closet Arsenal fan he did a good job of hiding it - he gave Liverpool more than a few of the fifty-fifty decisions, at one point didn't blow for a clear foul on Auba and immediately booked Bellerin in the same passage of play for the same type of foul and, sure, he could have dished out a harsh red card to Mane at the start. That deep cover appeared to be running pretty deep from what I could see.

gimli2112

I saw one once where the ref played a good advantage and then was disappointed when the attacking team didn't score. Who knows with refs I only hopped on to say Tyler should be sacked, in my opinion.
Not enough diversity in Sky to allow this ancient entitled white man to continue on.
Didn't see the game yesterday but the Arsenal guys are pretty unanimous the ref gave us everything.

DVDM93

I must not let the morning go without praising the referee for his decision not to send Mane off however, an excellent decision.

It wouldn't be fair of me to call him out for being noticeably disappointed when Laca didn't score without calling him out for the correct decision to give Mane a yellow card after his coming together with Tierney.

Turtyturd

I think it’s fair to say the ref grew into the game. Gave arsenal some early decisions but by the time Aubameyang was throwing himself to the ground after losing the ball to Fabinho and Bellerin wrestled Mane to the ground he had them sussed out.

Only complaint I’d have is him not booking Xhska/Luiz in the lead up to the Liverpool equaliser.

gimli2112

Well as mentioned, I hadn't seen the game but as it's universally accepted Liverpool have the most knowledgeable fans I'll bow to your judgement.

fyfe79

gimli2112 wrote: »

I saw one once where the ref played a good advantage and then was disappointed when the attacking team didn't score. Who knows with refs I only hopped on to say Tyler should be sacked, in my opinion.
Not enough diversity in Sky to allow this ancient entitled white man to continue on.
Didn't see the game yesterday but the Arsenal guys are pretty unanimous the ref gave us everything.

Ref's are only human - I imagine when they do an impressive bit of officiating, such as waving play on when they could easily blow it up, they'd like it to end in a goal so they can add it to their own "highlights reel" which they can use to further their own career and get to officiate the bigger games, or for UEFA/FIFA etc. Much like when a player creates a beautiful assist only for the donkey striker to make a mess of it.

noodler

It was the second 1v1 Arsenal missed in quick succession (tho was the first ultimately offside?) Maybe that's what it was.


I thought Sadio could have walked and the ref played a great advantage for our equaliser.

Casey78

gimli2112 wrote: »

I saw one once where the ref played a good advantage and then was disappointed when the attacking team didn't score. Who knows with refs I only hopped on to say Tyler should be sacked, in my opinion.
Not enough diversity in Sky to allow this ancient entitled white man to continue on.
Didn't see the game yesterday but the Arsenal guys are pretty unanimous the ref gave us everything.

I was at a game years ago when Paul Durkin was accused of celebrating a Liverpool goal vs Leeds. He claimed he was celebrating the fact a goal was scored from him giving advantage!

gimli2112

this is the one i remembered, knew it was Spurs. Explain this to your ref boss afterwards.

8-10

Fabinho got away with a couple of fouls but I'm astonished there was no yellow card for Luiz for our equalizer. Cynical.

I'd say Liverpool got marginally more decisions. I didn't see the possession or other overall stats though, I presume we had 60/65% of the ball?

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Something I don't really understand in the modern game:

Most fans and pundits hate cheating and diving, right? (Even if some of us accept that it's part and parcel of the game these days - and it's everywhere really)

If someone, lets say punched another player, but it went unnoticed by the officials and unpunished... there would be disciplinary action taken after the game. And rightly so, because you can't have people getting away with violence or serious cheating. It could potentially destroy the game.

But yet players diving all the time, manage to fool the referee into giving penos or cards etc... and yet there is never any retrospective action taken or even suggested after the game?

This is why I actually think most of the complaining about diving in the game, is actually mostly just pointless soundbites.

If we were really serious about cutting diving or any other form of blatant cheating out of the sport, it actually wouldn't be all that difficult to stamp it out. All you really would need to do, is put together a disciplinary panel made up of ex-players and officials, and take retrospective disciplinary action against those players deemed to be deliberately trying to con the referee.

And I am talking here about the most obvious and blatant incidents that most neutral fans get infuriated by when watching on TV.

I have a bit of a theory on why this has never happened... I think most countries are afraid to take the lead on something like this, because it will put their players at a significant disadvantage in European or international competitions.

Imagine if one of the major leagues managed to eradicate most blatant diving from their league... those more honest players would then be at a huge disadvantage when playing against players from other leagues, and referees who are used to giving soft fouls/free kicks when officiating in their native leagues.... so it simply would not work unless it was at the very least a continent-wide crack down.

But good luck trying to convince certain countries to crack down on cheating and conning referees... the latin countries in particular, seem to see this sort of dishonest behaviour as a type of intelligent art form. Something to be proud of and a sign of how very clever and sneaky you are!

Just my little rant... probably a very long and boring read ... but I've had too much caffeine so... :P

gimli2112

the majority of penalties are soft imo. the one Fabinho got against Leeds for example. I know why it's given and it's hard to say it was a dive but it was, I thought, soft.
Totally agree that blatant diving should be cracked down on

Trigger

DVDM93 wrote: »

Would a neutral mind helping me out here & offering an opinion on this please & thank you in advance? The opinion of Arsenal & Liverpool fans welcome too of course.

To me the referee is disappointed when Laca didn't score. This is very strange behaviour for a referee of all people who is supposed to be the most neutral person involved in the game. I can forgive the likes of biased commentators like Martin Tyler but referees are a different story altogether. I'm sure that's just me seeing things through rose-tinted glasses however & I'm hoping someone can shed some light for me.

https://twitter.com/blakaende2/status/1310686563026825219?s=20

Hes watching the ball

Wuff Wuff

DVDM93 wrote: »

Would a neutral mind helping me out here & offering an opinion on this please & thank you in advance? The opinion of Arsenal & Liverpool fans welcome too of course.

To me the referee is disappointed when Laca didn't score. This is very strange behaviour for a referee of all people who is supposed to be the most neutral person involved in the game. I can forgive the likes of biased commentators like Martin Tyler but referees are a different story altogether. I'm sure that's just me seeing things through rose-tinted glasses however & I'm hoping someone can shed some light for me.

https://twitter.com/blakaende2/status/1310686563026825219?s=20

Thats a hell of a reach, surely if he was biased he would have sent Mane off for the clash with Teirney :pac:

This is it

Trigger wrote: »

Hes watching the ball

That's exactly what I thought. The ricochet goes sky high, thought he was kinda jumping because he's at the end of his run and looking up at the ball

greenspurs

Do people listen to 'pundits' ?

I go make tea when they are speaking....

Mitch Connor

gimli2112 wrote: »

this is the one i remembered, knew it was Spurs. Explain this to your ref boss afterwards.

he had played advantage rather than calling play back - and it resulted in a goal, affirming it was a brilliant call to play the advantage. An easy explanation.

Mitch Connor

This is it wrote: »

That's exactly what I thought. The ricochet goes sky high, thought he was kinda jumping because he's at the end of his run and looking up at the ball

Even if h was disappointed - so what?

Unless the ref is making calls that are incorrect or leading to the team people are claiming he is trying to help win the match, I don't see an issue.

At the end of the day the ref is appointed to make the correct calls. As long as they are doing that it shouldn't matter. The reality is that if you think a ref will avour a side - then you can't have them as a ref of any match. If you think a ref will favour Liverpool, then he can't ref any Man City games ever, or maybe he can't ref any Everton or United games either.

A footballing body has to trust the refs, to the point that i find the notion of certain refs not being allowed to ref certain teams call into question the ethics and integrity of ref in general, and thus they should not be a ref.

This is it

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Even if h was disappointed - so what?

Unless the ref is making calls that are incorrect or leading to the team people are claiming he is trying to help win the match, I don't see an issue.

At the end of the day the ref is appointed to make the correct calls. As long as they are doing that it shouldn't matter. The reality is that if you think a ref will avour a side - then you can't have them as a ref of any match. If you think a ref will favour Liverpool, then he can't ref any Man City games ever, or maybe he can't ref any Everton or United games either.

A footballing body has to trust the refs, to the point that i find the notion of certain refs not being allowed to ref certain teams call into question the ethics and integrity of ref in general, and thus they should not be a ref.

I agree, but due to the nature of fans I'm sure referees are told to keep their demeanor as neutral as possible to avoid any issues, legitimate or not, like we're seeing last night and this morning.

Wuff Wuff

gimli2112 wrote: »

this is the one i remembered, knew it was Spurs. Explain this to your ref boss afterwards.

Mike Dean from Heswall, Merseyside who supports Tranmere

maybe he wanted Spurs to win as they aslo wear white kits :D

greenspurs

This is it wrote: »

I agree, but due to the nature of fans I'm sure referees are told to keep their demeanor as neutral as possible to avoid any issues, legitimate or not, like we're seeing last night and this morning.

Refs are humans.

When they were being called "Aloof, condescending , Cant talk to them"...
they then were told to engage with players more, so then when they were talking to players on the field of play, opposition fans were "hes mates with them, see him laughing and joking with their players"

Refs cant win, ever.

8-10

Blue Moon is open for registrations if people have referee conspiracy theories to spout.

I think we're actually seeing more fairness from decision making this season without baying crowds in the stands but it's always going to be inconsistent and it's only the high profile decisions that get highlighted.

greenspurs

Wuff Wuff wrote: »

Mike Dean from Heswall, Merseyside who supports Tranmere

maybe he wanted Spurs to win as they aslo wear white kits :D

Ask Poch what he thinks of Deans "love of Spurs" …… see that Burnley game ! :mad:

ArmaniJeanss

Mitch Connor wrote: »

A footballing body has to trust the refs, to the point that i find the notion of certain refs not being allowed to ref certain teams call into question the ethics and integrity of ref in general, and thus they should not be a ref.

If he's from Woking, and there's pictures of him walking around in a Woking jersey when he was a teenager, and celebrating when Woking won whatever they won.....
He may be the most ethical person in the football world, but I can see how it would be opening a can of worms to ever have him ref a Woking game.

So it seems sensible to have 1 or 2 teams that each ref can't do.

DeanAustin

6 wrote: »

Keane back tracked anyway. I like him for sound bites but he's an awful pundit. Offers nothing more than the man in the local. It's not hard to see why he never made it as a manager.

His balls shrank when Klopp took him on. "Oh no Mr Klopp, I think you're outstanding".

Coward. Always was and always will be.

Mitch Connor

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

If he's from Woking, and there's pictures of him walking around in a Woking jersey when he was a teenager, and celebrating when Woking won whatever they won.....
He may be the most ethical person in the football world, but I can see how it would be opening a can of worms to ever have him ref a Woking game.

So it seems sensible to have 1 or 2 teams that each ref can't do.

what about reffing a game that involves a rival of Woking, that a no too? surely it has to be by extention. And who a rival is could change every week based on league position.

yourdeadwright

After watching Liverpool last night how was comparing Wan Bisska to Trent was even a thing

Some on here had Bisska in the team of the year ahead of Trent what sport do some people be watching,

The kids is just exceptional

ArmaniJeanss

Mitch Connor wrote: »

what about reffing a game that involves a rival of Woking, that a no too? surely it has to be by extention. And who a rival is could change every week based on league position.

They may well do that already for Woking's main historic rival.
Though as you say their 'position rival' could change on a weekly basis.
It's hard to know exactly what their appointment formula is.

It's slightly more clear cut at international level.
It's interesting to look at say the Champions League groups. Obviously no-one refs a game with a team from their own country, but it also seems this extends to the full group. At a quick glance it seems none of the top refs have done a game in which there was a team from their country in the group. Is that UEFA casting negative vibes at the international refs, personally I don't think so?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019–20_UEFA_Champions_League_group_stage#Groups

Look, I agree with you that it's not ideal but it seems a sensible compromise. There's a hell of a lot of refs to go around, so appoint them to suitable games where their neutrality can't be questioned (fan paranoia notwithstanding)