Gardai have overwhelmingly negative view of Travellers - survey

humberklog

Pavee Point is like a restaurant that complains about the customers who don't like its food.

mcmoustache

Varik wrote: »

Pavee Point jumping in on the poll now. Can you imagine what anti-racism training would entail, how many hours and how much money they waste on it for it to be instantly render worthless as soon as a guard has to deal with their nonsense.

https://twitter.com/PaveePoint/status/1296420510683865092

They're really on another planet, that lot.

No amount of diversity training is going to convince Gárdaí that what they see every day isn't really happening.

LuasSimon

This poll is another smokescreen to camouflage the hard facts travellers refuse to work and rob those who do work and pay for their benefits .

looksee

I haven't seen any suggestion that the negative views of Gardai makes any difference to the way they treat travellers. Anyone in a job that meets the public will have personal views on the people they deal with; in general those views are not reflected in the way the job is done. I can't imagine nurses have a very positive attitude towards drunks or drug addicts coming into A&E on a Saturday night - or indeed, travellers coming in with half a dozen relatives and creating hassle in the waiting room, they still try to deal with them professionally. The poll was not about how Gardai treat travellers, just what view they have of them.

LuasSimon

What about the elderly people travellers have robbed and beaten up....the guards have had to console those people...im surprised its not a 100% of guards dont like travellers...they have destroyed rural Ireland with fear from all the robberies robbing everything from our oil to our dogs

mynamejeff

Varik wrote: »

Pavee Point jumping in on the poll now. Can you imagine what anti-racism training would entail, how many hours and how much money they waste on it for it to be instantly render worthless as soon as a guard has to deal with their nonsense.

https://twitter.com/PaveePoint/status/1296420510683865092

As laughable and nonsensible as it seems to any intelligent fair minded and educated person it is likely that gardai will be forced to undergo the training demanded at huge cost to the taxpayer and with the loss of resource to gardai,

With the only ones benefiting from that it being criminals

DrGreenThumb82

I've never once had a positive interaction with a traveller, as a business owner it amounted to constant threats, criminal damage, harassment and robbery.

Untold stress and damage to my business.

How am I supposed to have a positive view of travellers? Should I send a bill for reparations to Pavee Point?

Or will one of the many academics singing their praises on twitter fork over compensation for previous wrongdoing by their beloved "minceri"

I won't hold my breath.

The point is that bitching about Travellers will be passed off as racism. And therefore, easily dismissed as being unreasonable.

If we really want the State policy to change, then objections need to be directed against the Traveller culture, and the decision to give them a special ethnic status. The focus should be on the promotion that Traveller culture is primitive, and extremely unhealthy for those involved, as it encourages vice and destructive tendencies. The push should be to level the playing field, by making Travellers exactly the same as any other Irish person, with the same benefits. No special privileges, and no minority status.

Once the special culture is removed, we can educate and push them into society, the same way that lower working class families are. There will still be problems for them, but within a few generations, they'll be able to put their past behind them, and move on with living.

We all really need to frame our objections to Travellers better, and avoid the obvious racist remarks, because it simply strengthens any argument to retain their special status within Ireland.

nullzero

Bowie wrote: »

I was talking about Garda. I'm assuming you're not.

Are you suggesting that the Gardai are an institutionally racist organisation?

mcmoustache

DrGreenThumb82 wrote: »

I've never once had a positive interaction with a traveller, as a business owner it amounted to constant threats, criminal damage, harassment and robbery.

Untold stress and damage to my business.

How am I supposed to have a positive view of travellers? Should I send a bill for reparations to Pavee Point?

Or will one of the many academics singing their praises on twitter fork over compensation for previous wrongdoing by their beloved "minceri"

I won't hold my breath.

To be fair, you generally won't notice that someone is a traveller if they are just going about doing normal stuff like working or going to the shop to exchange money for goods and so on.

You'll definitely notice the ones robbing your tools, scamming your granny, shoplifting or trashing their council house though. It's worth being aware of the risk of confirmation bias.

Just on "minceiri", where did that word come from? Dr Joyce keeps using it but I never heard it before. Where I grew up they were and still are referred to as "tincéaraí".

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

What I find disappointing is that the one or two travellers that get an education and a public voice, like that Dr Joyce woman, use their platform to just bang on about how mistreated travellers are by us, instead of maybe trying to sort out their own community instead of blaming it on others. It's at the stage now where neither side trusts the other, but it can't all be down to us to sort everything out.
Also their way of life is just not compatible with ours, so they're always going to be breaking the law. I really don't know what can be done.

This it it. I just don’t see how this will ever resolve itself. The problem is that the change to compatibility with mainstream Irish culture will take a few generations in which time, many Travellers will still see crime as a normal way of life. How do you trust people from a culture where that’s endemic? But to assimulate into mainstream culture, Travellers need to accepted and trusted. But the trust simply isn’t there with good reason and many business owners would suffer if they were expected to extend that trust. It’s a vicious cycle. I do not see how it will ever be resolved.

Oranage2

Actually thinking about it I used to work in a chipper, only once got a tip and it was from a traveler. Every other experience has been negative.

TomTomTim

mcmoustache wrote: »

To be fair, you generally won't notice that someone is a traveller if they are just going about doing normal stuff like working or going to the shop to exchange money for goods and so on.

Are you seriously arguing that it's a distortion of perception? In the county I spent my youth I knew every one of the travellers families and not one member of them worked a 9-5 job or participated in civil society.

Edgware

Those that get an education invariably gets one of thse Social degrees that are only fit for employment by the do gooders organisation.
Ive never seen one get a degree that would assist in job creation, start a business etc

LuasSimon

Travellers are very intelligent people actually , they never do a days work and between benefits , free housing , compensation claims , bit of crime they have way more disposable income than the vast majority who work . No work stress or work getting in the way of spending time together with family . Go for a trot on the sulky when the weather is good etc , a far better work life balance than houses where both couples kill themselves over 30 years to pay a mortgage .

NasserShammaz

Edgware wrote: »

Those that get an education invariably gets one of thse Social degrees that are only fit for employment by the do gooders organisation.
Ive never seen one get a degree that would assist in job creation, start a business etc

It says it all that when one of them does get a degree it makes the six one news. FFS

breezy1985

Edgware wrote: »

Those that get an education invariably gets one of thse Social degrees that are only fit for employment by the do gooders organisation.
Ive never seen one get a degree that would assist in job creation, start a business etc

Any stats to back that up

breezy1985

mcmoustache wrote: »

To be fair, you generally won't notice that someone is a traveller if they are just going about doing normal stuff like working or going to the shop to exchange money for goods and so on.

You'll definitely notice the ones robbing your tools, scamming your granny, shoplifting or trashing their council house though. It's worth being aware of the risk of confirmation bias.

Just on "minceiri", where did that word come from? Dr Joyce keeps using it but I never heard it before. Where I grew up they were and still are referred to as "tincéaraí".

I agree that you only notice travellers when they do wrong which is why I am against the ethnic status because from what I can see all aspects of traveller culture that make them different are negative and strip those away and we are the same. There's a big push at the moment from academic travellers to push the idea that they have a unique language but pronouncing things wrong or with an accent is about as real a language as Ulster Scots and I assume Minceiri comes from there

jelutong

I wonder what views the travellers have of the Gardaí and settled people?

breezy1985

jelutong wrote: »

I wonder what views the travellers have of the Gardaí and settled people?

Or the Gardai towards settled people

Eric Cartman

breezy1985 wrote: »

Any stats to back that up

Id imagine backing up those stats isnt hard, theres that one in the seanad , theres that other traveller in trinity who works for an NGO. Surely theres 1-2 more

Foxhound38

Foxhound38 wrote: »

According to an article by the Times today, the results of a survey carried out within the Gardai shows overwhelmingly negative views of Travellers and Roma within the force.

This is a bit of a tough one - on the one hand, these lads and ladies are on the front lines having to deal with people from these groups everyday. These attitudes were likely not picked from the ether. And I'm not one to defend the "culture boss" stuff - you only have to take a look at the illiteracy, educational attainment, incarceration, drug use, teenage pregnancy, suicide and chronic joblessness rate within those communities to see that there is and has been a very serious problem with the culture they speak about.

On the other hand, if the people working for the State agency they are most likely to have contact with from an early stage in life already has a negative view of their entire group, what hope can there be of improved relations between settled and travelling people? What hope is there that there can be any future buy-in to society from these people?

What can be done here?


Mod Note from post 79

Generic 'traveller bashing' is not welcome here. Either post in specific relation to the OP or dont post at all.

In regards dealing with any group. I don't blanket 'hate' any group. I can talk to anyone regardless of where they come from, colour, religion or background. It's also my natural stance in life to be polite and casual with people so to be any other way takes a conscious decision.

I can however be suspicious of people and I suspect that's the main stance with most Gardai. A natural suspicion based on previous interactions and experience.

It doesn't mean I won't help the person, it doesn't mean I won't be polite and it certainly doesn't mean I can't be won over.

The simple reality is any Garda that's interacting with people completely neutral is naive and probable new. They are police and it's their jobs to be suspicious

mcmoustache

TomTomTim wrote: »

Are you seriously arguing that it's a distortion of perception? In the county I spent my youth I knew every one of the travellers families and not one member of them worked a 9-5 job or participated in civil society.

Not at all. My experiences with them have been overwhelmingly negative but I'm aware that there are plenty of them out there who aren't acting the maggot. Plenty work on sites and i don't mean the tarmac scam or robbing copper and machinery.

Did the spokesman for Pavee Pointless get a degree from Trinity? Seems baffling if so.

Even the lesser points courses are, or were well over 450 points or so.

Don't know what the scoring system re points was in the late seventies/early eighties,
(I'm guessing his vintage as being born sometime in the sixties) when he would have been
going to university.

Maybe I'm incorrect, and the demand wasn't as high for Third Level courses back then. But, if not, I don't think he sounds smart enough to have gotten there on merit. Don't know what course he
took, but presumably, something similar to Dr (:D) Joyce.
'Lucky Bag' degrees, as they are often called, ie useless, and very easy to get.

And these are the people that are allowed to call law abiding folk 'Country People' , and blame these Country People for their own self inflicted problems, and say nothing of the mayhem the group they represent causes.

It's anyone with half a brain that has a 'negative view of Travellers' - and rightly so.

Edgware

breezy1985 wrote: »

Any stats to back that up

Any stats to show different. Do your own research

kildare lad

My auld lad said travellers were fine when he was growing up, they call to the house and repair things or do a little job for them and they'd get a bit of food or dinner in return . They're like a totally different breed now though. Drug dealing , burglary , ripping off old people , killing each at funerals or weddings , even dealing in rhino horn , robbing dogs illegal dumping , there was three caravans parked in a car park in my town a few years ago , after about 3 weeks they burnt out a caravan and left, they dumped all their rubbish into a stream behind the carpark that salmon use for spawning and everything else went into the hedge , thankfully tidy towns cleaned it up . I'd hate to break it to the bleeding hearts but Garda aren't the only ones to have a bad opinion of travellers

Irishman80

They need better role models in the community.

How many travellers have 3rd level education?
How many travellers work in the civil service?
How many travellers work in professional occupations - accountancy, legal, education, medical?
How many travellers have qualified in trades?
How many travellers are business owners?
How many travellers are politicians?

Junkyard Tom

banie01 wrote: »

Why are the results of a survey that was carried out between 2012-2014 of a limited cohort of Gardaí only newsworthy now?

How do we get these dopes to argue amongst themselves.. Travellers! Throw out a story about Travellers! We've got one here from 6 years ago, will that not look too.. eh.. obvious? Lol, no, Travellers works every time.

kildare lad

Varik wrote: »

Pavee Point jumping in on the poll now. Can you imagine what anti-racism training would entail, how many hours and how much money they waste on it for it to be instantly render worthless as soon as a guard has to deal with their nonsense.

https://twitter.com/PaveePoint/status/1296420510683865092

Paver point are a joke , you never hear them commenting the behaviour of travellers. How about pavee point start doing some training courses teaching travellers that it's not ok to smash up hotels at weddings or to stop attacking each other with slash hooks at funerals , or maybe Mr Collins could show them how to use a bin instead of throwing they're rubbish in ditch or in farmers fields .

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

TomTomTim wrote: »

Are you seriously arguing that it's a distortion of perception? In the county I spent my youth I knew every one of the travellers families and not one member of them worked a 9-5 job or participated in civil society.

my friend tells a story of when he was in fourth class in primary. A couple of travellers started in fourth class and left after a week. He still talks of it in sincere amazement, no making fun, how he had to go through from infants to sixth but they learned everything in a week