Gardai have overwhelmingly negative view of Travellers - survey

NasserShammaz

kildare lad wrote: »

Paver point are a joke , you never hear them commenting the behaviour of travellers. How about pavee point start doing some training courses teaching travellers that it's not ok to smash up hotels at weddings or to stop attacking each other with slash hooks at funerals , or maybe Mr Collins could show them how to use a bin instead of throwing they're rubbish in ditch or in farmers fields .

Racist.


" the incompostable derilicrion upon the rights and patrifacation of the travelling community and in herefor the states implicit and wanton negating of those said rights is a clear ombupication of the travelling culture"


Martin Collins paveen pointless.

Ps they don't did nuttin wrong it was just a bit o copper from the mainline

mynamejeff

mynamejeff wrote: »

As laughable and nonsensible as it seems to any intelligent fair minded and educated person it is likely that gardai will be forced to undergo the training demanded at huge cost to the taxpayer and with the loss of resource to gardai,

With the only ones benefiting from that it being criminals

Gardai already undergo this training and it includes a day with pavee point

JP Liz V1

There is too many bad eggs, negative experiences so understandably not saying though there is some good too

whisky_galore

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Gardai already undergo this training and it includes a day with pavee point

Can imagine the amount of eye rolling when heading to this training.

Irishman80

kildare lad wrote: »

Paver point are a joke , you never hear them commenting the behaviour of travellers. How about pavee point start doing some training courses teaching travellers that it's not ok to smash up hotels at weddings or to stop attacking each other with slash hooks at funerals , or maybe Mr Collins could show them how to use a bin instead of throwing they're rubbish in ditch or in farmers fields .

I didn't think policing the behaviour of the travelling community was part of their policy. Why should we expect them to do that?

tayto lover

I laughed out loud when I saw that Traveller kid with the “Safe environment “ placard considering the state they leave places in.

Irishman80

tayto lover wrote: »

I laughed out loud when I saw that Traveller kid with the “Safe environment “ placard considering the state they leave places in.

I see it as a good thing. If the community gets involved more in society and petition for greater access to their rights, that will surely only have a positive effect.

briany

Deleted User wrote: »

Which means that Traveller culture should not be protected, and moves should be made to wean Travellers away from that culture. Their special ethnic status should be removed, and they shouldn't receive any welfare benefits that aren't already available to normal citizens.

Basically, as was said earlier, they need to be treated the same as any other member of Irish society. They're not a minority needing special treatment. but simply Irish people.

Any aspect of Traveller culture which negatively impacts on the rest of Irish society should certainly be discouraged, and this fraction of the culture could be said to make up the greater part of the whole. But if certain Traveller men want to knock the stuffing out of one another to 'settle a feud' or marry their first cousins, I don't really care, just so long as the former is done out of the way of other Irish people or the latter is not accompanied by wrecking a hotel function room.

As for being treated the same as other Irish people, you can take away their ethnic status, but if a Traveller, for the sake of argument, actually does progress in their education and even completes a 3rd level degree in computer science or something and goes for a job, if at any point in that application process it comes up that the person is of a Traveller background, I'd say they go to the bottom of the list, and I would say that is true of a lot of employers up and down the market, whether it's something they want to admit out loud or not. So, all I'm saying is that for a Traveller to be treated the same as another Irish person means also to give them the benefit of the doubt when at least appearing to try and engage positively with the rest of society. Are we all on board with that?

I know we could ask why anyone should try to meet the above Travellers halfway when they should do all the running with their reputation being such as it is, but they know the stigma on them. The ones who'd like to do better mightn't even bother if they know that's all they'd face outside of the workshops and classes.

homingbird

The problem is that the majority of those in prison are of no fixed abode & the majority of travelers give the minority a bad name or did i get that the wrong way round.

Ten of Swords

Are we still discussing the garda survey mentioned in the op? Doesn't look like it.

There has already been a mod warning against traveller bashing. Stay on topic or this thread will be closed

briany

briany wrote: »

Any aspect of Traveller culture which negatively impacts on the rest of Irish society should certainly be discouraged, and this fraction of the culture could be said to make up the greater part of the whole. But if certain Traveller men want to knock the stuffing out of one another to 'settle a feud' or marry their first cousins, I don't really care, just so long as the former is done out of the way of other Irish people or the latter is not accompanied by wrecking a hotel function room.

Nope. I disagree. We want Traveller to become civilised, and that means giving up all the traditional aspects of Traveller culture, otherwise they will simply resist joining Irish society properly. Just as Irish people themselves gave up common drink driving and other dangerous behaviors, so too should Travellers do the same with the whole Shebang.

If you allow certain aspects to remain (even if just held within Travellers themselves) you encourage Traveller cultural habits to remain. Which means that their mindsets won't change, and they won't leave all that **** behind. We don't need superficial changes because that gets us nowhere.

As for being treated the same as other Irish people, you can take away their ethnic status, but if a Traveller, for the sake of argument, actually does progress in their education and even completes a 3rd level degree in computer science or something and goes for a job, if at any point in that application process it comes up that the person is of a Traveller background, I'd say they go to the bottom of the list, and I would say that is true of a lot of employers up and down the market, whether it's something they want to admit out loud or not. So, all I'm saying is that for a Traveller to be treated the same as another Irish person means also to give them the benefit of the doubt when at least appearing to try and engage positively with the rest of society. Are we all on board with that?

It means doing away with the Traveller category entirely. Judge them as individuals, as we do with people from many areas in Ireland which would be considered dodgy.

I'm perfectly fine with dealing with them as individuals. Considering the lifestyle we have with social media, and online resumes, it's easy for employers to keep track of who is dodgy or not.

I know we could ask why anyone should try to meet the above Travellers halfway when they should do all the running with their reputation being such as it is, but they know the stigma on them. The ones who'd like to do better mightn't even bother if they know that's all they'd face outside of the workshops and classes.

Maybe. I don't care. It's past time that we did away with all of this nonsense. If they're unhappy with becoming Irish citizens with equal rights and nothing more, then they can try their luck in the UK or France.

This isn't about meeting halfway. This is about doing away with this crap entirely. Otherwise, it won't ever be left behind.

Foxhound38

briany wrote: »

So, all I'm saying is that for a Traveller to be treated the same as another Irish person means also to give them the benefit of the doubt when at least appearing to try and engage positively with the rest of society. Are we all on board with that?

I don't think many would have a problem with that (I certaintly wouldn't), and those that do are part of the problem themselves.

I would like to think that most people don't or at least shouldn't have a problem with who they are, just with the pattern of behaviour that seems to go with it. Most criticism (and even scepticism, such as by the gardai surveyed here) seems to be routed in the idea that everyone should be treated equally before the law and that certain standards of social behaviour should be the norm, but that there is one group that regards itself as above that.

In my mind, gardai would have little problem with travellers who make an effort, get an education and get jobs. They're not the ones who come to their attention. To me at least, those that do make an effort should be given every encouragement - more of them opting to do that is the only way forward for both sides I think.

Tony EH

Negative or realistic?

LostCovey

In their commentary on the survey, Pavee Point/Dr Joyce referred to Travellers being 'over-policed', but that has not been my experience, and my contact with Gardai suggests they would like to police them a lot less, but as a colleague of mine is fond of saying of our Traveller brethren, the 99% give the 1% a bad name.

I detest traveller bashing, it gets us nowhere, but there are plenty of positive suggestions in the comments above, maybe couched negatively or critically. To put it more positively i think attitudes like those in the survey would be transformed by some changes that the Travellers have control of.

We can
Approach them with an open mind
Lose some of the attiotudes that are evident in this thread

They can address:
Participation in education
Open their eyes to domestic violence and lose the Neolithic attitudes to LGBT, minority ethnic groups Roma and other travellers
Animal Welfare - Look after dogs & horses, which does not include running the crap out of unshod foals under sulkies on hard roads
Gender equality - especially in education - the early marriage thing destroys the prospects for bright traveller kids esp the girls
Lose the macho bare knuckle, slashook culture, and the callout videos
Reflect on why most small town pubs rub their hands when there is a settled funeral but shut for the night if there's a Traveller funeral
Participate in the 'white economy'
Control the controllables in your living conditions.

This is all cyclical, and I sincerely believe that the many gestures made by the settled society in provideing housing, halting site, and tolerating the criminality and the vuiolence have not been reciprocated by the Traveller side, who have visibly regressed further into stereotypes in my lifetime. If they and especially their representative organisations, called a few things out, we could see movement.

boombang

Another reason to welcome this report is that we generally hear very little from the Gardaí about how crime and social issues should be managed in Ireland. I think it leaves many in the dark about what's really going on. I know this is just a little glimpse at attitudes, but I think it's useful all the same. I think a healthy discussion about all sorts of tricky issues would be helped by more input on the realities of life from the Garda perspective.

Baggly

Mod

A reminder folks to discuss the OP - this is not a generally commentary thread on what your opinion of travellers is.

Ive tidied up a few off topic posts from this morning - but since i assume there are other posts to be made that ARE on topic, ill leave the thread to run for now.

whisky_galore

whisky_galore wrote: »

Can imagine the amount of eye rolling when heading to this training.

To be fair it's actually not so bad. There's a few talks / seminars / training that look terrible on paper but end up being petty informative and interesting. Likewise, some that you think will be good turn out to be pure box ticking exercises.

If your open minded and willing to engage and the lecturer is good at what they do and also willing to engage, to can both come away wiser for the experience.

punisher5112

What's the point of such a poll though because this thread proves one they're protected from any criticism and two they throw the race card for anything....


Definitely things need to change and we need the gubernment to actually say it for what it is....

Why in 2020 are we pussy footing around and protecting criminals, rapists, thieves, murderers and such on any side or creed or colour.....


Our homes and streets should be safe and we should be free from harm...

I'll be honest I've lived beside travellers that settled, some were ok but always watching and anything they could walk away with they'd take, the kids have absolutely zero respect for anyone and I suppose copy from the elders....

Few occasions I've come across a few where we had a chat or in a bar a bit of slag both sides but 95% of all my interaction are trouble from them.