Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours 2020/2021 - see Mod Note in OP [18/11/20]

tastyt

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How many more games will Stephen Kenny be given to prove himself (assuming the games don't go well for us)? You'd imagine the FAI already have their exit plan drawn up.

I think you’re giving the FAI a bit too much credit there

Ferris_Bueller

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How many more games will Stephen Kenny be given to prove himself (assuming the games don't go well for us)? You'd imagine the FAI already have their exit plan drawn up.

Looking at our group and our squad, I would expect to beat the two lower seeds and lose to the two higher seeds. If Kenny does worse than that then maybe he will be at risk of losing his job, but I get the feeling the knives will be out from some 'supporters' if we lose that first game to Serbia. I'd give Kenny the full campaign and I think it would be follish to sack him unless something goes horribly wrong such as hammerings off Portugal/Serbia and losing points against the lower seeds.

topmanamillion

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How many more games will Stephen Kenny be given to prove himself (assuming the games don't go well for us)? You'd imagine the FAI already have their exit plan drawn up.

You think the FAI have an exit plan? Or a plan regarding anything?

Kenny will get the World Cup qualifying which we haven't a hope of qualifying for regardless of the management team.

Then unless Klopp is at a loose end and fancies the gig for 500k a year, it's Kenny for Euro 2024 or a suitably cheap alternative should he not be deemed to have made sufficient progress.

In between that it's hoping Parrott, Knight, Molumby, Zefi, Byrne, "insert name of next great white hope" can turn out even half decent.

Mushy

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How many more games will Stephen Kenny be given to prove himself (assuming the games don't go well for us)? You'd imagine the FAI already have their exit plan drawn up.

I'd say this WC qualifying campaign unless it goes very well. It hasnt gone well at all, some of it out of Kenny's hands but that's the nature of the game

Pawwed Rig

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

but I get the feeling the knives will be out from some 'supporters' if we lose that first game to Serbia.

The knives have been out since day one in some sections

The_Kew_Tour

I think Knight should stay at Derby for another 18 months myself (once not relegated). He still be only 21 then and still got good future ahead. No point going to West ham now but getting no game.

Mr.Nice Guy

We could lose every game in the group and there will still be those calling for him to have more time.

"I'm really encouraged by our 60% possession against Luxembourg. Their winning goal was very fortunate, it must be said."

"I thought we knocked it about well against Portugal in the opening ten minutes. 6-0 flatters them a great deal."

The_Kew_Tour

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

We could lose every game in the group and there will still be those calling for him to have more time.

"I'm really encouraged by our 60% possession against Luxembourg. Their winning goal was very fortunate, it must be said."

"I thought we knocked it about well against Portugal in the opening ten minutes. 6-0 flatters them a great deal."

And we could win every game, qualify with game to spare and........

LuckyLloyd

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Looking at our group and our squad, I would expect to beat the two lower seeds and lose to the two higher seeds. If Kenny does worse than that then maybe he will be at risk of losing his job, but I get the feeling the knives will be out from some 'supporters' if we lose that first game to Serbia. I'd give Kenny the full campaign and I think it would be follish to sack him unless something goes horribly wrong such as hammerings off Portugal/Serbia and losing points against the lower seeds.

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

The knives have been out since day one in some sections

Ultimately it's a results business. This isn't a developmental youth squad. If he gets some decent results and makes a fist of qualification I'll be the first to say he should get another campaign (as Kerr should have been afforded in 2005).

If we're eliminated with 4+ games to go and are losing left and right time to try something else.

Take all the rest out of it imo.

Francie Barrett

Adam Idah is back in full training from Monday.

NewMan1982

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

We could lose every game in the group and there will still be those calling for him to have more time.

"I'm really encouraged by our 60% possession against Luxembourg. Their winning goal was very fortunate, it must be said."

"I thought we knocked it about well against Portugal in the opening ten minutes. 6-0 flatters them a great deal."

That’s nonsense.
I used to be the most optimistic fan when it came to thinking we could get results. The reality is we have the worst team I’ve seen in my lifetime. If we finish the group in third position then he’s done exactly as expected and should be kept on.

I would like to see Kenny develop a plan B approach and make substitutions or tactical changes a little earlier in this qualification campaign.

kowloonkev

Mushy wrote: »

Dunno how they thought theyd get away with it, and couldnt have come at a worse time for them. Interested to hear what grounds for appeal they have. The move to MK Dons didnt do him any harm anyway

I think their reasoning all along has been that the other two players involved were fit to play soon afterwards despite being the law breakers, whereas Keogh's decision to get in the car of a drunk driver led to a serious injury.

It is sad to see on the Derby fans forums the majority seem to have turned on Keogh and supporting the suits that have basically run the club into the ground, and have been basically trying to spend as little money as possible in view of a takeover that has now collapsed.

And Derby fans will support those morally contemptible leaches over a guy who played over 300 times for them and with his style of play risked his safety and future health for the cause. It's one club and set of fans I won't be shedding tears for if they kick the bucket, but I don't think that will happen because as I said, I think the money is there but the owners are holding back.

Credit to Knight et al for putting in the same effort despite not getting their full wages, but they are being a bit foolish all the same, and very quiet considering every win increases the value of the club at their own expense.

I think Knight should stay if he can as the players and coaching staff seem a good bunch.

johnnyryan89

Nathan Collins linked with Burnley as a replacement for Tarkowski whose out of contract in '22. Jimmy Dunne is linked with a loan move away from Burnley to Preston

Arsenal are also reportedly interested in Collins. Shocked there's no rumours of interest from United now that Fletcher is a coach there. Seeing as the last rumours came from him supposedly recommending Collins to Ole.

pjohnson

Surely we just need to maybe score 3 or 4 (might be a bit much the 4 mind) goals this campaign. Keep the possession over 50% throughout. Thats success now.

SomethingElse

pjohnson wrote: »

Surely we just need to maybe score 3 or 4 (might be a bit much the 4 mind) goals this campaign. Keep the possession over 50% throughout. Thats success now.

That's the bare minimum, what's really needed is Kenny starting a grassroots approach of young defenders all over the country keeping the ball for the majority of the 90 mins.

Pawwed Rig

Talk of Nathan Collins moving up a division

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/13830276/arsenal-nathan-collins-stoke-transfer-burnley/

Not a great source but lots of people are saying good things about him.

Another bloody centre back :pac:

POKERKING

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Talk of Nathan Collins moving up a division

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/13830276/arsenal-nathan-collins-stoke-transfer-burnley/

Not a great source but lots of people are saying good things about him.

Another bloody centre back :pac:

Not sure either club is a good move for him. Arsenal have loads of centre backs and dyche doesnt change his centre backs which means he needs tarowski to be sold. Ben gibson was a big signing for them and never played. I think collins might be best suited to finishing the season at stoke.

Least the future of our defence looks good with the players coming through!

Ferris_Bueller

Yeah I think staying at Stoke might suit him better for now. Burnley would be a nice move if they got rid of one of Tarkowski and Mee but until that happens it's hard to see Collins replacing either. We already have two Irish centre halves there who can't get a game ahead of them. Then Arsenal, well simply put I wouldn't think he is good enough to play for a team like Arsenal yet so you'd imagine it would mean a lot of sitting on the bench or playing cup games for the next two years.

Pawwed Rig

POKERKING wrote: »

Not sure either club is a good move for him. Arsenal have loads of centre backs and dyche doesnt change his centre backs which means he needs tarowski to be sold. Ben gibson was a big signing for them and never played. I think collins might be best suited to finishing the season at stoke.

Least the future of our defence looks good with the players coming through!

Gabriel is the only decent centre back Arsenal have. He is young too though so they would probably be better to have a more experienced guy beside him rather than another teenager

Francie Barrett

Browne and Molumby in action on Sky now, decent start from Preston.

weldoninhio

NewMan1982 wrote: »

That’s nonsense.
I used to be the most optimistic fan when it came to thinking we could get results. The reality is we have the worst team I’ve seen in my lifetime. If we finish the group in third position then he’s done exactly as expected and should be kept on.

I would like to see Kenny develop a plan B approach and make substitutions or tactical changes a little earlier in this qualification campaign.

So Mick gets third and he was terrible, Kenny gets third and “he’s done exactly as expected”??

NewMan1982

weldoninhio wrote: »

So Mick gets third and he was terrible, Kenny gets third and “he’s done exactly as expected”??

Where have I said Mick was terrible?

weldoninhio

NewMan1982 wrote: »

Where have I said Mick was terrible?

Wasn’t aimed particularly at you, more the ‘Mick bad, Kenny good’ posters.

deisedude

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

We could lose every game in the group and there will still be those calling for him to have more time.

"I'm really encouraged by our 60% possession against Luxembourg. Their winning goal was very fortunate, it must be said."

"I thought we knocked it about well against Portugal in the opening ten minutes. 6-0 flatters them a great deal."

Serious question but whats the alternative?

The FAI haven't a pot to piss in to replace Kenny and what manager could we even realistically get

A bottom of the table championship job pays better than Ireland coach right now

DeanAustin

weldoninhio wrote: »

Wasn’t aimed particularly at you, more the ‘Mick bad, Kenny good’ posters.

So whataboutery really?

Or has any person actually made the argument you mentioned (i.e. 3rd for Kenny is what’s expected but it was failure for Mick)?

Francie Barrett

Byrne on the bench for APOEL.

NewMan1982

weldoninhio wrote: »

Wasn’t aimed particularly at you, more the ‘Mick bad, Kenny good’ posters.

I don’t think it’s that simplistic.

Banjaxed82

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

We could lose every game in the group and there will still be those calling for him to have more time.

"I'm really encouraged by our 60% possession against Luxembourg. Their winning goal was very fortunate, it must be said."

"I thought we knocked it about well against Portugal in the opening ten minutes. 6-0 flatters them a great deal."

The nonsense faux dialogue above might wash at these early days, but wrong to think that would be universally accepted come the end of the World campaign.

Between the nations league and World Cup qualifiers, Kenny will have had enough time to make an impact. You, me and my granny (who's dead) will know where we stand with Kenny when that time comes.

Anyone who sat through Micks qualifiers in the late 90's knows well that sometimes you have to look beyond immediate results. And it couldn't be denied, that progress was being made. For Mick, lack of qualification primarily came down to an ageing squad (blooding of new players) and some bad in game luck that he couldn't do much about.

Will Kenny be dumped for lack of qualification? Absolutely not.

Will Kenny be dumped for lack of qualification in tandem with poor performances and a team that haven't made progress in over 12 months of football? Absolutely. And rightly so.

What's the big swing? Give him a chance, then get the knives out when they should rightly be taken out.

weldoninhio

deisedude wrote: »

Serious question but whats the alternative?

The FAI haven't a pot to piss in to replace Kenny and what manager could we even realistically get

A bottom of the table championship job pays better than Ireland coach right now

Has Kenny ever been touted for a job at as high a level as bottom of Championship??

Dr. Bre

Kevin Long has scored for Burnley

topmanamillion

deisedude wrote: »

A bottom of the table championship job pays better than Ireland coach right now

Which is exactly as it should be.

A championship manager will probably get around 40 games in charge before they get the boot.
Our international managers might do about 6-8 competitive games a year.

At the last Euros MON was coining in about €1.2 million Euro. Michael O'Neil took in about 300k and both teams exited at the same stage.

There is absolutely no reason a country of our size and pedigree should be paying a manager more than 5 or 600k a year.
It's JD and his "world class management team" bullsh1t that has convinced people we do.

Mr.Nice Guy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

We could lose every game in the group and there will still be those calling for him to have more time.

"I'm really encouraged by our 60% possession against Luxembourg. Their winning goal was very fortunate, it must be said."

"I thought we knocked it about well against Portugal in the opening ten minutes. 6-0 flatters them a great deal."

I don’t entirely agree, but those quotes made me genuinely laugh out loud tbf

deisedude

topmanamillion wrote: »

Which is exactly as it should be.

A championship manager will probably get around 40 games in charge before they get the boot.
Our international managers might do about 6-8 competitive games a year.

At the last Euros MON was coining in about €1.2 million Euro. Michael O'Neil took in about 300k and both teams exited at the same stage.

There is absolutely no reason a country of our size and pedigree should be paying a manager more than 5 or 600k a year.
It's JD and his "world class management team" bullsh1t that has convinced people we do.

And I agree with you

My issue is the constant b1tching and moaning about Kenny the whole time from the same posters without ever giving a viable alternative manager that we could afford

And no I don't think Kenny is a messiah. I hope he does well because he manages Ireland but he mightnt be the right man for the job

athlone99

weldoninhio wrote: »

So Mick gets third and he was terrible, Kenny gets third and “he’s done exactly as expected”??

Yes, Its a world cup qualifying group. All things being equal Ireland should never qualify for a world cup again. The expanded Euros however is a totally different story. Ireland should be qualifying for every Euros and in My opinion using the world cup qualifiers to build a team and squad for the Euro qualifiers. If we then built a decent team we should be going all out to qualify for a world cup.

We need a long term development plan, SK should be allowed use the world cup qualifying campaign to bring in young players and give the 4-8 games to learn international football. And finishing third would be about right. If he got a good result in the Serbia game then that would change that. I am of the opinion that the biggest SK naysayers are the lads who just want a piss up every 2 or 4 years and dont really care about football in Ireland!

Please need a serious reality check here. The FAI are flat broke because one man ran the organisation into the ground, paying international managers 3 or 4 times what similar nations are paying their managers. Last qualifying campaign, Mick earned as good as 2M to not qualify and Giggs earned around 400k.

weldoninhio

athlone99 wrote: »

Yes, Its a world cup qualifying group. All things being equal Ireland should never qualify for a world cup again. The expanded Euros however is a totally different story. Ireland should be qualifying for every Euros and in My opinion using the world cup qualifiers to build a team and squad for the Euro qualifiers. If we then built a decent team we should be going all out to qualify for a world cup.

We need a long term development plan, SK should be allowed use the world cup qualifying campaign to bring in young players and give the 4-8 games to learn international football. And finishing third would be about right. If he got a good result in the Serbia game then that would change that. I am of the opinion that the biggest SK naysayers are the lads who just want a piss up every 2 or 4 years and dont really care about football in Ireland!

Please need a serious reality check here. The FAI are flat broke because one man ran the organisation into the ground, paying international managers 3 or 4 times what similar nations are paying their managers. Last qualifying campaign, Mick earned as good as 2M to not qualify and Giggs earned around 400k.

As stated previously, the Irish Mens National Team is not a development squad, it's not there to big up the league. It's only goal is to qualify for tournaments.

athlone99

weldoninhio wrote: »

As stated previously, the Irish Mens National Team is not a development squad, it's not there to big up the league. It's only goal is to qualify for tournaments.

Yes and what i am saying is people need to realize we have punched above our weight by qualifying for world cups in the past. In the past we had world class players at the top of their game. We no longer have that and people need to realize that the Euro's has to be aim and we should work towards that.

Your attitude of we have to qualify for tournaments is the reason the FAI is broke, the league of Ireland is under invested in and we do not develop/cannot develop footballers on this island because we havent invested in academies. For once we need a long term plan and it that means writing off the WC qualifiers to a point, i'm happy with that as i dont expect us to qualify anyway. If SK finished 3rd but gave 10 young lads 5 games, that's a much better scenario for Irish football than trying to get a bunch of 30+ players to qualify for a tournament and then when that manager leaves, we are back to cycle of boom and bust every 10 years!

weldoninhio

athlone99 wrote: »

Yes and what i am saying is people need to realize we have punched above our weight by qualifying for world cups in the past. In the past we had world class players at the top of their game. We no longer have that and people need to realize that the Euro's has to be aim and we should work towards that.

Your attitude of we have to qualify for tournaments is the reason the FAI is broke, the league of Ireland is under invested in and we do not develop/cannot develop footballers on this island because we havent invested in academies. For once we need a long term plan and it that means writing off the WC qualifiers to a point, i'm happy with that as i dont expect us to qualify anyway. If SK finished 3rd but gave 10 young lads 5 games, that's a much better scenario for Irish football than trying to get a bunch of 30+ players to qualify for a tournament and then when that manager leaves, we are back to cycle of boom and bust every 10 years!

And again, that is not the role of the Irish Mens National team. It literally has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the national team. The national team is not a development team for LOI footballers.

athlone99

weldoninhio wrote: »

And again, that is not the role of the Irish Mens National team. It literally has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the national team. The national team is not a development team for LOI footballers.

Grand so.

With Bexit and everything else where do you expect senior international footballers to come from? If you cant see that not having invested in the league of Ireland or in developing footballers at home directly affects the senior team? Give me your plan to improve the national team?

When SK got the U21s job it was the first time all underage teams played the same formation and with the same style of play. He also stopped chasing random league 1 and 2 players with Irish Grandparents to try bring them into set up, instead he fast tracked the best players to step up through the grades quicker.

There is a reason Germany are one of the best footballing nations now with a top league. In the early 2000's after no qualifying for a tournament they radically redesigned the league, the FA structures and how they coach players and bring them through the system. Thats what we need to do, not looking to qualify for the next tournament so random so called football fans can go on the piss!!!!

athlone99

athlone99 wrote: »

Grand so.

With Bexit and everything else where do you expect senior international footballers to come from? If you cant see that not having invested in the league of Ireland or in developing footballers at home directly affects the senior team? Give me your plan to improve the national team?

When SK got the U21s job it was the first time all underage teams played the same formation and with the same style of play. He also stopped chasing random league 1 and 2 players with Irish Grandparents to try bring them into set up, instead he fast tracked the best players to step up through the grades quicker.

There is a reason Germany are one of the best footballing nations now with a top league. In the early 2000's after no qualifying for a tournament they radically redesigned the league, the FA structures and how they coach players and bring them through the system. Thats what we need to do, not looking to qualify for the next tournament so random so called football fans can go on the piss!!!!

You're overlooking the fact that Germany have the biggest population in Europe which is the gold standard in football.

Hardly a minnow who turned things around and found success. They were successful before and after that period.

We gain absolutely nothing in using the WC qualifiers as a development process.

It's a bit silly to be honest, there are Nations League games that can be used to develop new players.
We gain nothing by not trying our best to quality for either tournament and we lose nothing going with our best players.

Amirani

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How many more games will Stephen Kenny be given to prove himself (assuming the games don't go well for us)? You'd imagine the FAI already have their exit plan drawn up.

I think a lot of people forget how bad the financial situation at the FAI still is. They're completely reliant on Government financial support.

The amount allowed for the international manager's job is going to be very limited for years to come. It's unlikely to be enough to attract even the sorts of names we've had in recent years.

weldoninhio

Amirani wrote: »

I think a lot of people forget how bad the financial situation at the FAI still is. They're completely reliant on Government financial support.

The amount allowed for the international manager's job is going to be very limited for years to come. It's unlikely to be enough to attract even the sorts of names we've had in recent years.

Bilic was on 60k a year with Croatia.
Someone above said Giggs was on 40k, i think.
You don't have to pay big money for what is basically a part time job. Delaney ran the FAI as his own personal fiefdom.

weldoninhio

athlone99 wrote: »

Grand so.

With Bexit and everything else where do you expect senior international footballers to come from? If you cant see that not having invested in the league of Ireland or in developing footballers at home directly affects the senior team? Give me your plan to improve the national team?

When SK got the U21s job it was the first time all underage teams played the same formation and with the same style of play. He also stopped chasing random league 1 and 2 players with Irish Grandparents to try bring them into set up, instead he fast tracked the best players to step up through the grades quicker.

There is a reason Germany are one of the best footballing nations now with a top league. In the early 2000's after no qualifying for a tournament they radically redesigned the league, the FA structures and how they coach players and bring them through the system. Thats what we need to do, not looking to qualify for the next tournament so random so called football fans can go on the piss!!!!

And yet again, the LOI has absolutely nothing to do with the Mens national team. I've been to Germany, and Ireland is no Germany.

athlone99

weldoninhio wrote: »

And yet again, the LOI has absolutely nothing to do with the Mens national team. I've been to Germany, and Ireland is no Germany.

Really? Do you actually believe that?

Last Squad, all these started their careers in the LOI, your deluded if you dont think the International team and the LOI are integral to each other in the coming years!

Seamus Coleman, Matt Doherty, Kevin Long, Alan Browne, Jack Byrne, Ryan Manning, Sean Maguire, James McClean, Daryl Horgan, Ronan Curtis

And just some of the lads in the squad. Id hate to think of where the Senior Irish squad would be without the LOI.

gmisk

weldoninhio wrote: »

Bilic was on 60k a year with Croatia.
Someone above said Giggs was on 40k, i think.
You don't have to pay big money for what is basically a part time job. Delaney ran the FAI as his own personal fiefdom.

Anywhere I read saying Giggs on 400k?
He also gets massive bonuses (400k for getting them to euros)
The bilic one is a real break from the norm, in international football.
The current manager of croatia is on 750k plus.

eire4

athlone99 wrote: »

Yes and what i am saying is people need to realize we have punched above our weight by qualifying for world cups in the past. In the past we had world class players at the top of their game. We no longer have that and people need to realize that the Euro's has to be aim and we should work towards that.

Your attitude of we have to qualify for tournaments is the reason the FAI is broke, the league of Ireland is under invested in and we do not develop/cannot develop footballers on this island because we havent invested in academies. For once we need a long term plan and it that means writing off the WC qualifiers to a point, i'm happy with that as i dont expect us to qualify anyway. If SK finished 3rd but gave 10 young lads 5 games, that's a much better scenario for Irish football than trying to get a bunch of 30+ players to qualify for a tournament and then when that manager leaves, we are back to cycle of boom and bust every 10 years!

Totally agree with you. We are so far off so to speak people need to wake up and accept that to truly put Irish football back on its feet long term we need a long term approach and one that is focused finally on putting in place the structures within our own country that ensure our most talented young players have the football education and pathway to allow they a chance to become successful at the highest levels of the game.

eire4

NewMan1982 wrote: »

That’s nonsense.
I used to be the most optimistic fan when it came to thinking we could get results. The reality is we have the worst team I’ve seen in my lifetime. If we finish the group in third position then he’s done exactly as expected and should be kept on.

I would like to see Kenny develop a plan B approach and make substitutions or tactical changes a little earlier in this qualification campaign.

Sadly that is the current reality. This current squad is the worst and least talented Ireland squad since the 1970's IMHO. The focus should be one bringing through our most talented underage players and below the national team putting in place a proper coaching education and pathway that ensures within our own country we can develop our own players and put them in a position to be successful at the highest level for the long term. The fact is though we are so far behind that this process will take time.

Francie Barrett

athlone99 wrote: »

There is a reason Germany are one of the best footballing nations now with a top league. In the early 2000's after no qualifying for a tournament they radically redesigned the league, the FA structures and how they coach players and bring them through the system. Thats what we need to do, not looking to qualify for the next tournament so random so called football fans can go on the piss!!!!

What you're talking about has already been done. Ruud Dokter was brought in back in 2013 and the changes that have happened since have completely re-hauled the underage structures. Games at the youth level no long happen on full-size pitches for 45 minutes, far more coaches hold licences, there's an "elite player" pathway from under 13 level to senior level. It's all still a work in progress, but having being a trainer for my sons team 10 years ago, the impact is clear.

All this is a complete aside to the debate on Kenny though. Kenny's job as the senior team manager is to get results. I understand he has a philosophy that he wants to play, and it's certainty his prerogative to play in that way. Ultimately though, he will (and should) be judged by results on the pitch. I do not agree with this notion that qualification campaigns should be "written-off", and that Kenny needs to "blood" new players.

If the team is not performing and not qualifying for campaigns, then the FAI are not making money, and in an era where it's in financial difficulty, that will have a huge impact on the underlying structures. We also have a prestige impact of not performing. More and more we're seeing players with dual nationalities who have the option of playing for more than one country. Again, this will have an impact in we are under-performing at a senior level. Whatever about Grealish abandoning us, we should never have lost Rice. The sport is also under increasing competition from GAA and rugby. Rugby was barely even a thing in Galway when I was a kid, now it's playing serious catch up with football, a lot of it inspired by Irish teams success over the past few years.

With regard to squad selection, no one should be making the senior team with some notion that they are going to somehow miraculously develop in the week or two that they spend with the senior team. The vast, vast majority of player development is going to happen at club level. Kenny's job is to analyse and to pick players that fit his system that can win football games. Sometimes, there are young up and coming talents who you might want to take a punt on. The vast, vast majority of the squad should be made up of players who are playing senior level football. If there is a demand to "blood" un-tested players, then there's nothing stopping us from organising a B international, or a friendly tour. I see that our next opponents Serbia have done such a thing this week. Whatever way we do it, we should absolutely not be using a qualification game for a major tournament as some sort of testing ground.

weldoninhio

Francie Barrett wrote: »

What you're talking about has already been done. Ruud Dokter was brought in back in 2013 and the changes that have happened since have completely re-hauled the underage structures. Games at the youth level no long happen on full-size pitches for 45 minutes, far more coaches hold licences, there's an "elite player" pathway from under 13 level to senior level. It's all still a work in progress, but having being a trainer for my sons team 10 years ago, the impact is clear.

All this is a complete aside to the debate on Kenny though. Kenny's job as the senior team manager is to get results. I understand he has a philosophy that he wants to play, and it's certainty his prerogative to play in that way. Ultimately though, he will (and should) be judged by results on the pitch. I do not agree with this notion that qualification campaigns should be "written-off", and that Kenny needs to "blood" new players.

If the team is not performing and not qualifying for campaigns, then the FAI are not making money, and in an era where it's in financial difficulty, that will have a huge impact on the underlying structures. We also have a prestige impact of not performing. More and more we're seeing players with dual nationalities who have the option of playing for more than one country. Again, this will have an impact in we are under-performing at a senior level. Whatever about Grealish abandoning us, we should never have lost Rice. The sport is also under increasing competition from GAA and rugby. Rugby was barely even a thing in Galway when I was a kid, now it's playing serious catch up with football, a lot of it inspired by Irish teams success over the past few years.

With regard to squad selection, no one should be making the senior team with some notion that they are going to somehow miraculously develop in the week or two that they spend with the senior team. The vast, vast majority of player development is going to happen at club level. Kenny's job is to analyse and to pick players that fit his system that can win football games. Sometimes, there are young up and coming talents who you might want to take a punt on. The vast, vast majority of the squad should be made up of players who are playing senior level football. If there is a demand to "blood" un-tested players, then there's nothing stopping us from organising a B international, or a friendly tour. I see that our next opponents Serbia have done such a thing this week. Whatever way we do it, we should absolutely not be using a qualification game for a major tournament as some sort of testing ground.

Finally, someone who gets it. The men’s international team is the peak, not a breeding ground.

The_Kew_Tour

Well if that's the case we never be happy with a manager, it's been 30 years since we peaked

square ball

Francie Barrett wrote: »

What you're talking about has already been done. Ruud Dokter was brought in back in 2013 and the changes that have happened since have completely re-hauled the underage structures. Games at the youth level no long happen on full-size pitches for 45 minutes, far more coaches hold licences, there's an "elite player" pathway from under 13 level to senior level. It's all still a work in progress, but having being a trainer for my sons team 10 years ago, the impact is clear.

All this is a complete aside to the debate on Kenny though. Kenny's job as the senior team manager is to get results. I understand he has a philosophy that he wants to play, and it's certainty his prerogative to play in that way. Ultimately though, he will (and should) be judged by results on the pitch. I do not agree with this notion that qualification campaigns should be "written-off", and that Kenny needs to "blood" new players.

If the team is not performing and not qualifying for campaigns, then the FAI are not making money, and in an era where it's in financial difficulty, that will have a huge impact on the underlying structures. We also have a prestige impact of not performing. More and more we're seeing players with dual nationalities who have the option of playing for more than one country. Again, this will have an impact in we are under-performing at a senior level. Whatever about Grealish abandoning us, we should never have lost Rice. The sport is also under increasing competition from GAA and rugby. Rugby was barely even a thing in Galway when I was a kid, now it's playing serious catch up with football, a lot of it inspired by Irish teams success over the past few years.

With regard to squad selection, no one should be making the senior team with some notion that they are going to somehow miraculously develop in the week or two that they spend with the senior team. The vast, vast majority of player development is going to happen at club level. Kenny's job is to analyse and to pick players that fit his system that can win football games. Sometimes, there are young up and coming talents who you might want to take a punt on. The vast, vast majority of the squad should be made up of players who are playing senior level football. If there is a demand to "blood" un-tested players, then there's nothing stopping us from organising a B international, or a friendly tour. I see that our next opponents Serbia have done such a thing this week. Whatever way we do it, we should absolutely not be using a qualification game for a major tournament as some sort of testing ground.

A lot of sense there, but he has inherited the worst Irish team of the last 35 years. The players aren't there at the moment. We have promising young lads coming through but realistically we are at least 2 years away from being properly competitive. We have very very few regular PL starters with their clubs. Most of the younger players are raw and still developing, some won't make the grade so someone is going to have to blood players. We have overachieved for the last 35 years considering how little has been done domestically to grow the game.

Very hard for a young Irish player to make it through even at Championship level even unless they are super physical or exceptionally gifted. Almost easier for a young winger or striker to come through in the Premier League even though standard is higher most teams play possession football. Hence we have a load of centre halves and central midfielders. The attacking players need games when they are young to develop even if it is a lower level. The academy system in England is a bit of a farce, for the level of coaching, facilities, etc very few young lads are trusted to play for their first team. Take Spurs for example 23 players older than 23 in their first team squad and another few over 20 so very few opportunities to get adult game time for the academy players they are scouring the world for.

Would much prefer to see 5 or 6 18-20 year olds go abroad with 50 or 60 senior games and some experience under his belt than 40 or 50 14-16 year olds going each year. I'd say you'd probably see a similar return in players making it professionally while also increasing the standard in the League of Ireland and maybe some of the late developers might be ready to step up when they are a few years older.