Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours 2020/2021 - see Mod Note in OP [18/11/20]

LuckyLloyd

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Is tonight's game on rte or sky or both?

Need to get my streaming set up as I'll be in work

both

Kermit.de.frog

How many defeats will this be for Kenny?

simongurnick

Talon Calm Bobsled wrote: »

pragmatic doesnt = playing on the back foot.

Not always, but my point is more that most of our players arent playing possession heavy, expansive football every week with their clubs. They are defending, picking up scraps and trying to win on the break. Expecting them to show up for Ireland , have a couple of training sessions and then play the opposite way is pretty unrealistic.

athlone99

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This is another straw man, it really is a terrible way to debate. I'm not talking about winning anything, I'm merely referencing our qualification record:

2020: missed out in last group game
2018: playoffs
2016: qualified
2014: missed out with games to go, not acceptable, sacked
2012: qualified
2010: playoffs
2008: missed out with games to go, not acceptable, sacked

What the **** do Georgia have to do with such a record? If Kenny misses out here with games to go, it will not be acceptable and he will be sacked.

The recent Nations League campaign was his time to get acclimated to the job, assess his players, etc. It was disappointing but he was always going to get this qualification campaign. Hopefully he has taken his learnings from the Nations League and will apply them.

All people want is to be in the mix down the stretch. If he achieves that along with us displaying more initiative against lower seeds that would be acceptable. I'm really not asking for much.

You are basically saying the same as me but in a different way. We can only finish 2nd, which would be above our current ability based on form, world rankings , seeding etc.

Expectations have to change given where our squad is. This is a WC campaign 3rd is acceptable as long as there has been progression, better style of play, young players getting games etc. We should expect to qualify for a Euros given there now 24 team tournaments. The WC is a whole different ball game.

athlone99

https://twitter.com/FutsalFinn/status/1374447472357961735

This is quite interesting for those who think we should be automatically qualifying/reaching playoffs. Its quite scary who bad we have been in the last 5 years, people really need a reality check for where the senior team is.

LuckyLloyd

athlone99 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/FutsalFinn/status/1374447472357961735

This is quite interesting for those who think we should be automatically qualifying/reaching playoffs. Its quite scary who bad we have been in the last 5 years, people really need a reality check for where the senior team is.

ANOTHER straw man

Nobody saying that either, that I can see.

athlone99

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

ANOTHER straw man

Nobody saying that either, that I can see.

So stats and facts are straw man arguments now?

Multiple posters have stated if Ireland dont finish 2nd SK should be sacked. If your not willing to look at and acknowledge facts/stats I'm wasting my time engaging with you.

Banjaxed82

Team who, more often than not, struggle to qualify for tournaments, are looking to struggle to qualify for another tournament...shocker.

Far too much convoluted yapping on here.

It's hard enough to qualify with a decent team never mind this crop. We get it. It's sh!t being in transition, because in your heart you know success is not coming in the short term.

Whether it's Kenny or someone else, our outlook on style, tactics and youth development has to move with the times.

Unfortunately for Kenny he doesn't have a couple of world-class players during this transition, but people just have to accept the pain... cause the catharsis will come sooner or later. And we'll love it.

McFly85

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

This is another straw man, it really is a terrible way to debate. I'm not talking about winning anything, I'm merely referencing our qualification record:

2020: missed out in last group game
2018: playoffs
2016: qualified
2014: missed out with games to go, not acceptable, sacked
2012: qualified
2010: playoffs
2008: missed out with games to go, not acceptable, sacked

What the **** do Georgia have to do with such a record? If Kenny misses out here with games to go, it will not be acceptable and he will be sacked.

The recent Nations League campaign was his time to get acclimated to the job, assess his players, etc. It was disappointing but he was always going to get this qualification campaign. Hopefully he has taken his learnings from the Nations League and will apply them.

All people want is to be in the mix down the stretch. If he achieves that along with us displaying more initiative against lower seeds that would be acceptable. I'm really not asking for much.

I disagree with looking at it from purely a results point of view. The end goal of a football team is to get results, but context is massively important.

Kenny ended up getting the job early, in a very difficult situation, and had 22 players unavailable at some stage due to COVID rules. He hasn't had a consistent run with his preferred XI(or time to find out what that even is). Saying that his time to get acclimated has passed is disingenuous.

I would say that a lot of people don't just want to be in the mix at the business end of the campaign. Don't get me wrong, it would be great if we were - but if we're out with 3 games to go and we've had some good performances that we feel we can build on then absolutely he should get another campaign. I personally think with the situation the way it is and the players he has at his disposal, SK should be targeting qualification for 2024. Fall short of that, then the discussion can be had.

I've just felt the last couple of campaigns we've had to be largely pointless. We'd get to the last couple of rounds of games still in with a shout of qualification through getting draw after draw before inevitably falling short when we actually needed a win. I've often thought that even if we had somehow managed to qualify, what would be the point? 3 games at a finals of sitting back, hoofing it and hoping for a result? It would most likely turn into another 2012 where we were absolutely destroyed.

This is the first time in ages that I've felt excited about the Irish team. There is an attempt to update the way we play football, to really look at the pool of players we have and what's the most effective way to use them. Trying to build something instead of negative football for short term gain. I don't know if Stephen Kenny is the man for Ireland yet, but whatever his tenure brings, I hope it proves that there is value in how we approach a campaign, not just looking at the raw numbers.

Chardee MacDennis

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

2020: DNQ
2018: DNQ
2016: qualified
2014: DNQ
2012: qualified
2010: DNQ
2008: DNQ

FYP.

If we're not going to qualify for tournaments, I'd prefer to play nicer football, give it a good chance and see what comes of it...

noodler

athlone99 wrote: »

Sure with that attitude the FAI may as well scrap their new coaching plan and go back to being the only country humping it long. We need to move on as a football nation and if that means finishing 3rd in this campaign im quite happy with that.

So you definition of competitive is running after the ball rather than keeping it and trying to create chances? The games you reference we got very lucky and tending to score late to get back into it or scored and just about held on. Yes we got results but it was depressing watching it. At least in my opinion we are trying to win games rather than just hang in there and see what happens in the last 10 mins.

Have you listened to what the players have been saying? They are delighted with the new approach.

This link you have put forward between the players having a bit more possession (but being less successful) over the few games they have over this campaign and being successful in the next is a bit fuzzy tbh.

noodler

Chardee MacDennis wrote: »

FYP.

If we're not going to qualify for tournaments, I'd prefer to play nicer football, give it a good chance and see what comes of it...

Jesus.

I can't believe that's what you took from it.

Making the play-offs is an honest to god achievement for a country of our size.

The problem with your statement above is we will never know if we could have improved results by being a bit more cute/agricultural as you will have never tried.


There is a middle ground here. Giles made the point well when Trap was getting results. There is a way to improve on some basics of passing and possession without unduly risking concession of a goal everytime we try something in possession.

Tchaikovsky

Anthony Barry is supposedly excellent on set pieces so it'll be interesting to see what changes in that regard; hopefully it's a big improvement, although he's only had a few days with the squad.

But back to the mood of the thread.. we're sh1t, gonna get trashed!

srfc d16

Kenny's Dundalk side used to be very good from set pieces too.
Some people view him as a possession obsessed purist but I think from watching him over the years he will ask his team to play what he believes the most effective way. Maybe he believes that the most effective way of this team playing is possession based as we do not have many fast players to assist with quick counter attacks from midfield.
Connolly while inexperienced has been a big loss purely from a pace point of view. As far as I can remember he has only been available for 1 of his games so far

athlone99

noodler wrote: »

This link you have put forward between the players having a bit more possession (but being less successful) over the few games they have over this campaign and being successful in the next is a bit fuzzy tbh.

Well SK is trying to change a style that i think will be successful and you have to start somewhere. For example, the nations league was poor from a results point of view but chances created and possession were much better. If that then leads to results in the campaign tonight everyone will look back and go i can see what he was trying to do.

MON got results but got the boot because at the end of the data performances were dire, Mick to a certain extent was the same. I think people tolerate slightly better performances/nicer football over crap football, scraping results and maybe qualifying.

Also as SRFC D16 has stated SK was pragmatic at times with Dundalk and got results. SK's version of being pragmatic is keeping the ball and possession and not kicking it as far away as possible from our own goal and trying not to concede.

TheCitizen

GLaDOS wrote: »

Coleman and Doherty both playing could be a move to wing backs with Coleman rcb

I doubt it, if he was going to do that surely he would have trialled a 3-5-2 in the Nation’s League games. He should have tried it in those games but he didn’t so I’d say he’s just putting Doherty in as a right midfielder in a 4-3-3 when we have the ball which would then be 4-5-1 when we defend.

Doherty could be played as a central midfielder perhaps.

Chardee MacDennis

noodler wrote: »

There is a middle ground here. Giles made the point well when Trap was getting results. There is a way to improve on some basics of passing and possession without unduly risking concession of a goal everytime we try something in possession.

I don't necessarily disagree with this!

DM_7

athlone99 wrote: »

So stats and facts are straw man arguments now?

Multiple posters have stated if Ireland dont finish 2nd SK should be sacked. If your not willing to look at and acknowledge facts/stats I'm wasting my time engaging with you.

Mod: The poster you are replying to has highlighted some of your general comments already that can appear dismissive. When making counter points please address the points without the generalisations such as the below (these type of comments take away from the good football points made):

athlone99 wrote: »

I'm of the opinion that a lot of people who want him gone were also backers of Delaney and happy to take free pints and lift him on their shoulders while he bled the FAI dry and we are now reaping the rewards of that.

athlone99 wrote: »

Thats progress for me and for people who understand football.

athlone99 wrote: »

This is quite interesting for those who think we should be automatically qualifying/reaching playoffs. Its quite scary who bad we have been in the last 5 years, people really need a reality check for where the senior team is.

Thank you.

Tchaikovsky

Qatar 1-0 up over Luxembourg but looking at the stats, Luxembourg have had more chances and possession.

spurshero

Travers Coleman O’Shea Clark stevens Doherty molumby Browne Cullen Connolly Robinson ..

Christy Browne

Has to be 5 at the back with Coleman at RCB as Connolly and Robinson are meant to be upfront together? Unless it’s a 4-4-2 with Molumby/Browne left wing?

~Rebel~

Talon Calm Bobsled wrote: »

3-5-2

Have to imagine so, particularly with the way the twitter account phrased it, saying; "Aaron Connolly & Callum Robinson start up front", and "Cullen, Molumby & Browne start in midfield", coupled with the rumours that Connolly and Robinson had been playing as a 2 up front in training.

polarbearhead

Ballsy selection. Good luck to SK

brilou23

Let's go for it lads. COYBIG.

Pawwed Rig

Carlsberg don't do team selections but.......

I would argue for Knight but I am so happy that Kenny had the balls to drop Hendrick and Duffy.
Please let it pay off


COYBIG


In an alternate universe somewhere I am slugging pints in Belgrade

noodler

polarbearhead wrote: »

Ballsy selection. Good luck to SK

Very.

Come on the ****!

noodler

Who is left of the 5? Connolly or Robinson?

Pudsy33

noodler wrote: »

Who is left of the 5? Connolly or Robinson?

Neither, both up top?

Mantis Toboggan

Good to see Kenny has abandoned the idea of Doherty at full back and has restored the captain. Still learning on the job but shows he's able to adjust.

happyoutscan

Ballsy but no harm. Fingers crossed.

gormdubhgorm

The preview seems a mixture of petrified, edginess and hope.

tayto lover

Is it compulsory in Serbia for your name to end with a “C”?

statesaver

A goal would be nice.

gormdubhgorm

statesaver wrote: »

A goal would be nice.

Even an offside one. Just to remember what it could be like!

The White Feather

If I offered you a 0-0 draw now would you take it?!!!

gormdubhgorm

The White Feather wrote: »

If I offered you a 0-0 draw now would you take it?!!!

A solid 0-0 with a few chances created and some sort of signs of pattern of play developing.

I would be pleased with that.

ShamoBuc

We Scored We Scored We scored !!!!

Yee Hawww

sheroman01

GET INNNNNNN

athlone99

Get in ta F$$$. Great goal and a great start

happyoutscan

Sweet!

The Big Easy

Brilliant goal, that's some Stephen Kenny football there!

Bleating Lamb

Regardless how tonight goes....and at mo we are ahead after an excellent team goal,fair play to Stephen Kenny for his team selection.

Mc Carthy would have Mc Clean,Duffy etc starting.....Kenny is giving youth it’s chance and picking players who are in form.

artanevilla

Mod: Keep match commentary to the dedicated match thread here please:

https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058171697/1

athlone99

Glad we seen that out at 1-1, Serbia really got on top after the gaol. Start again

Mr.Nice Guy

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

Regardless how tonight goes....and at mo we are ahead after an excellent team goal,fair play to Stephen Kenny for his team selection.

Mc Carthy would have Mc Clean,Duffy etc starting.....Kenny is giving youth it’s chance and picking players who are in form.

This is bizarre. What about all of Kenny's previous team selections? You realise this is his 9th game in charge, and not his first? There were people on this thread passionately defending the continued selection of Hendrick when the likes of myself were begging for him to be dropped.

I did a post on this thread before highlighting his midfield selections which were as follows:

Midfield vs Bulgaria: Hourihane, McCarthy, Hendrick.

Midfield vs Finland (home): Molumby, Arter, Brady.

Midfield vs Slovakia: Hourihane, McCarthy, Hendrick.

Midfield vs Wales: Molumby, Hourihane, Hendrick.

Midfield vs Finland (away): Molumby, Hourihane, Hendrick.

The team selection tonight was welcomed not because it fit into a previous pattern of giving youth a chance, but because of precisely the opposite.

gormdubhgorm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

This is bizarre. What about all of Kenny's previous team selections? You realise this is his 9th game in charge, and not his first? There were people on this thread passionately defending the continued selection of Hendrick when the likes of myself were begging for him to be dropped.

I did a post on this thread before highlighting his midfield selections which were as follows:



The team selection tonight was welcomed not because it fit into a previous pattern of giving youth a chance, but because of precisely the opposite.

I think I remember you giving out about Hendrick alright. He was not playing well.

Dr. Bre

I’d worry if they take more shots on travers . He looks vulnerable

Vicxas

It's nice to see players actually look like they want to play for Ireland

noodler

Well that's a kick in the teeth.

But can't blame the manager for individual errors of that magnitude.