Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours 2020/2021 - see Mod Note in OP [18/11/20]

TheRiverman

briany wrote: »

Technically, the manager never deserves the blame because he's not the one out there on the pitch kicking the ball. Doesn't mean he doesn't get the blame, though.

The Manager is always the one to get sacked when things go wrong.

MD1990

That result wont be a one off doesnt matter who is manager next few years.

We have barely many players who are regulars at there clubs.

Barely any players coming through. Covid will mess up development with nearly no grassroots football for over a year.

Just look at the english academies. No Irish players in so many of the u23 squads.

chicorytip

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nail on head. Sacking Kenny would solve nothing. We'd be only back to square one trying to hire a manager for a job that no one wants.

I cant see how any different manager could improve us and at least we are trying to play it on the ground.

The manager has to devise a strategy suitable to the players at his disposal rather than suitable to his own opinions on how the game should be played. Guardiola, Klopp and even Southgate have the benefit of world class players in every position to enable them implement their preferred tactics successfully. Kenny does not. He has mostly Championship standard players to work with. Playing out from the back and intricate passing has never been Ireland's style, even when Giles was in charge and we had world class players. Charlton, Trap and McCarthy were moderately successful by getting mostly average players to play to their strengths whilst being tactically flexible when required rather than adhering rigidly to one particular style. That trio all developed their careers in a full time professional environment, of course, not the LOI. Stop taking risks at the back and get the ball up the field quickly. Tonight was unfortunate because I think we will beat Serbia at home and could have claimed a play off spot.

Okon

Deleted User wrote: »

He'll achieve success with whatever LOI club he takes over.

He will, because he's a LOI manager... and clearly that's all he'll ever be.

The people calling for Kenny's head, remind me of that show 'The Wire' where the Police Commissioner in Baltimore was sacking Police Majors right, left and centre because they weren't solving Baltimore's crime problem overnight, and somehow they thought hiring the deputy of that Major would solve things immediately.

The fact is there is no quick fix to the mess we are in. The Senior players have been utterly ****e. I was no fan of either MON or Trap and their brands of crab football, but knew that unless things changed from the ground up, any succeeding manager was on a hiding to nothing.

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

They wont play for the next one either, or the one after that. The senior players are terrible. Technically no skill. Shane Long a disaster tonight for a player of such experience. Couldnt direct a simple header. All these got into the professional ranks because the 'up and atom' mentality was in English football. Those days are long gone.

Why pick on Shane Long? He came on very late in the game.

Kenny is done. Persisting with him after this is pointless. Sack him and let him go.

noodler

The squad can't be used as an excuse for losing at home to Luxembourg.

Kerrydude1981

When was the last time we were bottom of the qualifying group after the opening two games??

TheCitizen

noodler wrote: »

The squad can't be used as an excuse for losing at home to Luxembourg.

Yep.

There's no excuses. Unfortunately they're not playing for him.

It would be best for all concerned if he leaves immediately.

chicorytip

chicorytip wrote: »

The manager has to devise a strategy suitable to the players at his disposal rather than suitable to his own opinions on how the game should be played. Guardiola, Klopp and even Southgate have the benefit of world class players in every position to enable them implement their preferred tactics successfully. Kenny does not. He has mostly Championship standard players to work with. Playing out from the back and intricate passing has never been Ireland's style, even when Giles was in charge and we had world class players. Charlton, Trap and McCarthy were moderately successful by getting mostly average players to play to their strengths whilst being tactically flexible when required rather than adhering rigidly to one particular style. That trio all developed their careers in a full time professional environment, of course, not the LOI. Stop taking risks at the back and get the ball up the field quickly. Tonight was unfortunate because I think we will beat Serbia at home and could have claimed a playoff spot.

We have technically good young players who are good on the ball in the underage ranks. I'm failing to see how playing hoof-ball to suit the older guard is a good idea going forward. For years I've heard people bemoaning our playing style. Is it not better to try and change rather than flip-flop back and forth with turgid defensive muck?

I'm not even sure how we could gradually go from the muck we were playing to a passing game gradually. Kenny did very well with the under 21s, prior to taking this job and will have a good chunk of those to call upon in the future so its better to start as we mean to go on.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yep.

There's no excuses. Unfortunately they're not playing for him.

It would be best for all concerned if he leaves immediately.

Ah yes. I suppose Pep, Klopp, or Zidane probably fighting for the job as we speak

Did you smash it

I always felt O’Neill especially overachieved with a squad with so little quality.

What is happening now is long overdue. The fact that a coaching ticket of such little experience inspired such hope in the fans is something I never understood.

briany

The thing of Ireland having a limited squad is being trotted out. I agree that the squad is quite limited indeed, but the question is whether Kenny is getting the best out of them. Is that the best this current squad can do?

Another one is that it takes time to bed in the system. I'm sure it does, but Trapattoni seemed to have his system bedded in after a two week training camp. It appears to being taking Kenny considerably longer.

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

We have technically good young players who are good on the ball in the underage ranks. I'm failing to see how playing hoof-ball to suit the older guard is a good idea going forward. For years I've heard people bemoaning our playing style. Is it not better to try and change rather than flip-flop back and forth with turgid defensive muck?

I'm not even sure how we could gradually go from the muck we were playing to a passing game overnight. Kenny did very well with the under 21s, prior to taking this job and will have a good chunk of those to call upon in the future.

Kenny has no future. Maybe you missed the game?

Kingp35

Kenny got absolutely everything wrong in the second half. All of his changes made the team worse. He should shoulder all the blame for that.

As for giving him the rest of the campaign - what's the point unless you're giving him the next one too? Does anyone really think he's done enough to warrant this and the next campaign?

It's been truly awful stuff, tonight was utterly embarrassing.

It doesn't matter who comes in next, you don't keep someone in a job who's clearly not up to standard.

Did you smash it

Deleted User wrote: »

We have technically good young players who are good on the ball in the underage ranks. I'm failing to see how playing hoof-ball to suit the older guard is a good idea going forward. For years I've heard people bemoaning our playing style. Is it not better to try and change rather than flip-flop back and forth with turgid defensive muck?

I'm not even sure how we could gradually go from the muck we were playing to a passing game overnight. Kenny did very well with the under 21s, prior to taking this job and will have a good chunk of those to call upon in the future.

Is Molumby a technically good player? I don’t see it. I’m sure he’ll get better but I wouldn’t see him having the natural tools to be a good baller.

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah yes. I suppose Pep, Klopp, or Zidane probably fighting for the job as we speak

Ah a strawman. Great.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yep.

There's no excuses. Unfortunately they're not playing for him.

It would be best for all concerned if he leaves immediately.

I (somewhat) believed in the project until tonight. Now I think almost anyone else would likely do better. Get him out of there for his own well-being if nothing else

Did you smash it

The best out of work manager out there who we might be able to afford is David Wagner in my opinion.

Augme

TheCitizen wrote: »

The players aren't playing for him. He's done. Don't you get it?

Get rid of the players then. The great thing about international football is you can get rid of players immediately, you don't have to pander to players becuase you are stuck with them.

FAI can't afford to sack kenny and pay for another manager/backroom teams anyway.

Stephens, brady, mclean, henderick and Long shouldn't near the team in two years tine for the next european qualifiers. Drop them now and be done with them and let's give more youngster game time and a go.

TheCitizen

Kingp35 wrote: »

Kenny got absolutely everything wrong in the second half. All of his changes made the team worse. He should shoulder all the blame for that.

As for giving him the rest of the campaign - what's the point unless you're giving him the next one too? Does anyone really think he's done enough to warrant this and the next campaign?

It's been truly awful stuff, tonight was utterly embarrassing.

It doesn't matter who comes in next, you don't keep someone in a job who's clearly not up to standard.

I agree, and I was hopeful for him even after the Serbia game but that tonight tells me the players aren't buying into it with Stephen.

He's done FAI. Please don't drag the arse out of it. He's done. Put someone else in there even on a short term basis.

kksaints

Did you smash it wrote: »

The best out of work manager out there who we might be able to afford is David Wagner in my opinion.

Eh no thanks. Did you see how bad his results with Schalke were? He had an even worse winless streak then Kenny does.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Ah a strawman. Great.

As opposed to your 'We should sack the manager but I have absolutely no idea who should take over' logic.

Did you smash it

kksaints wrote: »

Eh no thanks. Did you see how bad his results with Schalke were? He had an even worse winless streak then Kenny does.

Schalke is a basket case. Sacking Wagner has done nothing to improve them.

Zico !

Augme wrote: »

Get rid of the players then. The great thing about international football is you can get rid of players immediately, you don't have to pander to players becuase you are stuck with them.

FAI can't afford to sack kenny and pay for another manager/backroom teams anyway.

Stephens, brady, mclean, henderick and Long shouldn't near the team in two years tine for the next european qualifiers. Drop them now and be done with them and let's give more youngster game time and a go.

sweet jaysus

TheCitizen

Deleted User wrote: »

I (somewhat) believed in the project until tonight. Now I think almost anyone else would likely do better. Get him out of there for his own well-being if nothing else

I was in the same boat.

However he's got to go as soon as possible, for him as well as the rest of the set up as you say.

Did you smash it

Did you smash it wrote: »

Schalke is a basket case. Sacking Wagner has done nothing to improve them.

We are another basket case. Much as I loved Jack Charlton, he started the whole 'we haven't the players, we need to go long' mentality and it left a legacy with underage coaches who decided that the only way to win was to pick big strong players and capitalise on the breaks. There were aspects of Jacks game I liked (High-press) but he was pragmatic and had no time for players like Liam Brady or Dave O'Leary who were technically comfortable on the ball

the kelt

Did you smash it wrote: »

The best out of work manager out there who we might be able to afford is David Wagner in my opinion.

Eddie Howe?

Francie Barrett

Deleted User wrote: »

We have technically good young players who are good on the ball in the underage ranks.

Like who?

The current batch of young players that we've had come through the underage setup is probably the best batch we've had in years. At the same time, I would struggle to identify which ones are technically good (as in good enough to play at a high level).

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

I was in the same boat.

However he's got to go as soon as possible, for him as well as the rest of the set up as you say.

He's got to go for the sake of going. I don't know who will replace him but he's got to go.

Did you smash it

the kelt wrote: »

Eddie Howe?

Higher callings await id say.

Dr. Bre

Is Phillipe Troussier still interested?

fyfe79

Deleted User wrote: »

I (somewhat) believed in the project until tonight. Now I think almost anyone else would likely do better. Get him out of there for his own well-being if nothing else

Same. I was positive with what I saw against Serbia. Tonight I saw a team not playing for him.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He's got to go for the sake of going. I don't know who will replace him but he's got to go.

I think whoever the replacement will be is almost beside the point. Neil Lennon, Roy Keane, Phillip frickin’ Troussier, Terry bleeding’ Venables, Stan, all deeply uninspiring, but Kenny is shot and won’t recover from this dreadful start

ratracer

fyfe79 wrote: »

Same. I was positive with what I saw against Serbia. Tonight I saw a team not playing for him.

I didn’t get a whole lot of ‘backing the gaffer’ from Coleman’s interview either. If they had any faith in him I’d would have thought he may have mentioned him, but all he said was the senior players let down the young lads ( GK specifically on his debut) and how they had to put it right and take pride in the jersey for them, but never mentioned the manager, even when asked, which I found telling.

Francie Barrett

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Like who?

The current batch of young players that we've had come through the underage setup is probably the best batch we've had in years. At the same time, I would struggle to identify which ones are technically good (as in good enough to play at a high level).

Adam Idah and Aaron Connolly for starters. Parrott is technically good too albeit a little light. Our u21s beat Wales 2-1 away from home yesterday and the results have been generally decent at underage.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I think whoever the replacement will be is almost beside the point. Neil Lennon, Roy Keane, Phillip frickin’ Troussier, Terry bleeding’ Venables, Stan, all deeply uninspiring, but Kenny is shot and won’t recover from this dreadful start

Bull. The next manager is crucial. if you are going to sack a manager, you need a very good alternative.... We have absolutely none. I don't think Lennon would even touch the job with a barge pole

briany

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Is Phillipe Troussier still interested?

I think his name is Mother Shabubu, now.

TheCitizen

TheCitizen wrote: »

Kenny has no future. Maybe you missed the game?

You have still failed to identify who can take this bunch of players and make them competitive because quite simply you don't know. Sacking a manager will involve having a replacement lined up and you want to make sure he is better than what you have. Even at that, Trap and MON done very little with us.

polarbearhead

briany wrote: »

I think his name is Mother Shabubu, now.

Were you watching the Simpsons instead of the match?

noodler

Make them competitive again?

We might have settled for 12 points from lux and Azerbaijan and 4 losses to the Portuguese and Serbs.

That wouldn't have been competitive per se but might have settled for it.

This is unacceptable. Only a lack of leadership/cash will keep him in the job now.

chicorytip

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We have technically good young players who are good on the ball in the underage ranks. I'm failing to see how playing hoof-ball to suit the older guard is a good idea going forward. For years I've heard people bemoaning our playing style. Is it not better to try and change rather than flip-flop back and forth with turgid defensive muck?

I'm not even sure how we could gradually go from the muck we were playing to a passing game gradually. Kenny did very well with the under 21s, prior to taking this job and will have a good chunk of those to call upon in the future so its better to start as we mean to go on.

How many of these will develop to become established Premiership players? Parrot can't even get a game at Millwall. You can't compare managing at underage level to the senior job. Kerr suffered in that regard as well. It's difficult to make that transition from the part-time/amateur to the full time professional, results driven set up. Kenny is decent and likeable but just out of his depth.

Francie Barrett

Deleted User wrote: »

Adam Idah and Aaron Connolly for starters. Parrott is technically good too albeit a little light. Our u21s beat Wales 2-1 away from home yesterday and the results have been generally decent at underage.

I wouldn't put Idah in that bracket. Parrott was highly rated as a kid, but that hasn't translated to senior level yet. Out of all the players emerging from the underage setup, I would say Connolly is probably the strongest in terms of raw technical ability, but he's blown very hot and cold.

briany

polarbearhead wrote: »

Were you watching the Simpsons instead of the match?

Could you blame me if I was?

celt262

chicorytip wrote: »

How many of these will develop to become established Premiership players? Parrot can't even get a game at Millwall. You can't compare managing at underage level to the senior job. Kerr suffered in that regard as well. It's difficult to make that transition from the part-time/amateur to the full time professional, results driven set up. Kenny is decent and likeable but just out of his depth.

Parrott isn't at Millwall.

briany

Deleted User wrote: »

You have still failed to identify who can take this bunch of players and make them competitive because quite simply you don't know. Sacking a manager will involve having a replacement lined up and you want to make sure he is better than what you have. Even at that, Trap and MON done very little with us.

Not really true. Trapattoni gave the team a defensive organisation after the Staunton fiasco and brought the team to the brink of WC qualification and got to the Euros. After that bubble burst, O'Neill did much of the same, although he also struck a better balance between defence and attack.

There's perhaps more that both of those managers could have done, and they were often attacked for being overly defensive, but I think most of us would jump at the chance to go back to the kind of performance seen in the middle of either manager's tenure when the team would at least be in the running to qualify for something.

ScummyMan

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Like who?

The current batch of young players that we've had come through the underage setup is probably the best batch we've had in years. At the same time, I would struggle to identify which ones are technically good (as in good enough to play at a high level).

Jason Knight was named captain of Derby at 19.

Nathan Collins is 19 and has captained Stoke already.

Kelleher was excellent in the Champions League.

We have a crop of exciting young strikers, they have had a tough year this year, but they are still kids. Idah, Connolly, Parrott, even Obafemi.

There is the bones of a great crop of players there. The problem is we are relying on them already, as our senior players are an embarrassment.

pjohnson

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You have still failed to identify who can take this bunch of players and make them competitive because quite simply you don't know. Sacking a manager will involve having a replacement lined up and you want to make sure he is better than what you have. Even at that, Trap and MON done very little with us.

Doing "very little" like they did would be a huge improvement for Kenny.

Utopia Parkway

Kenny is likely toast after tonight. He will struggle on until the end of the campaign and they'll probably be more bad results and then he'll be moved aside. I have some sympathy as he doesn't have much talent to work with but you need to get results. Especially against sides at your own level or even lower. Nobody expects results against the likes of Portugal. Or even Serbia.

Don't see many managers come back from nights like that and how broken he looked after. To be fair Michael O'Neill managed it with the north but he might have been the exception.

For Forks Sake

celt262 wrote: »

Parrott isn't at Millwall.

Yeah he's dropped down another division, and he's not doing much there either.