Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours 2020/2021 - see Mod Note in OP [18/11/20]

showpony1

I am really incredulous at the defense i see of Stephen sometimes - he looks like a chancer looks totally out of his depth and has then gone on to lose all of his games - but reading on here that he is like Guardiola when first at City needing more time to implement his playing style.

athlone99

showpony1 wrote: »

I am really incredulous at the defense i see of Stephen sometimes - he looks like a chancer looks totally out of his depth and has then gone on to lose all of his games - but reading on here that he is like Guardiola when first at City needing more time to implement his playing style.

Point 1- one of the most successful domestic managers, managing since in his 20's is a chancer? nonsense

Point 2 - he hasnt lost all his games - nonsense

point 3 - if your actually not going to read my post why bother making a comment on it? What i said is changing a style takes time, media called for Pep to be sacked after 6 months, look at that scenario now, and i specifically said he is not Pep.

The defense I and others have put up is that he is tying to change a mindset and style of play. Irish players have heard for 15 years that all they are good for is defending and that they should under no circumstances try and pass the ball. He should be given the Euros qualifying and see how that goes and what performances are like. Defenders of SK havent stated hes in the job for life.

McFly85

showpony1 wrote: »

I am really incredulous at the defense i see of Stephen sometimes - he looks like a chancer looks totally out of his depth and has then gone on to lose all of his games - but reading on here that he is like Guardiola when first at City needing more time to implement his playing style.

Why is he like Guardiola for trying to implement a playing style with his players? All managers do that. Should we really be looking for someone who doesn’t try to get the team to do anything at all except hoof it long and collect a million or 2 for doing it?

LuckyLloyd

Deleted User wrote: »

Has anyone read any of the posts here, for or against Kenny, and changed their minds?

I appreciate that people may have changed their minds. I was in favour of him but as I see just how he has to deal with a weak squad getting weaker, an FAI that can't even follow Covid regulations costing him important players in the most important game, and yet he is still determined to put hoofball behind us, my support has probably increased.

But that's from what I see. Just curious as to whether all the posts here have swayed anyone at all?

I've read a lot of the posts, not every one - I dip in and out.

I'll support any manager who can make us as competitive as possible. I think my record on this forum speaks to that. I am hopeful that what will happen is that the players will become more accustomed to what he's asking of them and he'll reap benefits from this end of season training camp. If we can press more coherently in September and move the ball more efficiently and it makes us more competitive then I'm all for it.

I think though that it will be performances and results that move my opinions on this much more than posts or punditry. I just want Ireland to be as competitive as possible. I'm fully agnostic to the footballing approach that achieves that.

Francie Barrett

Anyone want to take a stab at the team for this evening? My guess is he will go with 3-5-2 with a team like below. Kenny seemed to be gushing about McGrath, which makes me think he will start at number 10 instead of Hourihane.

---

Kelleher
Omobamidele Egan O'Shea
Doherty Cullen Molumby McClean

---

McGrath

---

Idah Parrott

athlone99

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Anyone want to take a stab at the team for this evening? My guess is he will go with 3-5-2 with a team like below. Kenny seemed to be gushing about McGrath, which makes me think he will start at number 10 instead of Hourihane.

---

Kelleher
Omobamidele Egan O'Shea
Doherty Cullen Molumby McClean

---

McGrath

---

Idah Parrott

Good shout with that. All depends if hes going to stick to the 3-5-2.

showpony1

athlone99 wrote: »

Irish players have heard for 15 years that all they are good for is defending and that they should under no circumstances try and pass the ball.

You must think we've some awful mentally weak players if the likes of Egan have the scars of players from 15 years ago being told they can't pass!

I would argue over the course of 11 games it has been shown that it is correct that we cannot play passing football so not sure what the obsession is with that "style".

Kenny in one of his first interviews going on about playing like Barcelona '09, its David Brent type stuff.

Francie Barrett

athlone99 wrote: »

Good shout with that. All depends if hes going to stick to the 3-5-2.

I am fairly confident it will be 3-5-2. Doherty and McClean are our two best available options for the right/left full back positions and both operate best as wing backs rather than in a flat four. McClean has apparently been training with the defenders as well, which also leads you to believe Kenny is thinking 3-5-2.

Brock Turnpike

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Has anyone read any of the posts here, for or against Kenny, and changed their minds?

I appreciate that people may have changed their minds. I was in favour of him but as I see just how he has to deal with a weak squad getting weaker, an FAI that can't even follow Covid regulations costing him important players in the most important game, and yet he is still determined to put hoofball behind us, my support has probably increased.

But that's from what I see. Just curious as to whether all the posts here have swayed anyone at all?

Supported his appointment from the outset and continue to support him. I think he has made mistakes, I think the performance at home to Luxembourg was really disappointing and he has to take responsibility. However I also think he's had to deal with an unprecedented set of circumstances since taking over.

Having said all that, I think this training camp, friendlies, and the upcoming Qualifiers in September are likely to be seen as make or break for him. The team needs to show after this camp, which is a significant amount of time to have an international team outside of a tournament, that they have taken to his methods, get some wins, and show real progress in implementing the style of play that SK wants them to play.

athlone99

showpony1 wrote: »

You must think we've some awful mentally weak players if the likes of Egan have the scars of players from 15 years ago being told they can't pass!

I would argue over the course of 11 games it has been shown that it is correct that we cannot play passing football so not sure what the obsession is with that "style".

Kenny in one of his first interviews going on about playing like Barcelona '09, its David Brent type stuff.

You mean John Egan who at 29 has 12 caps because he was ignored for years? I fully believe we have some mentally weak players, look at their club careers, we have very few players ripping it up.

I would argue over those 11 games if he could have started the same team more than once we would have more wins and the style of play would be a lot better.

And whats wrong with a bit of ambition for once for the senior team?

Also to add to that i assume you were calling for MON and Micks heads when long ball football didnt qualify us for tournaments?

Kermit.de.frog

I'm all for giving people a fair crack of the whip but I expect a good win this evening and if we don't win I think any fair minded person would acknowledge Kenny is on very ropey ground, has had a good few games, a fair chance, and probably needs to go.

We'll see what happens.

Brock Turnpike

athlone99 wrote: »

You mean John Egan who at 29 has 12 caps because he was ignored for years? I fully believe we have some mentally weak players, look at their club careers, we have very few players ripping it up.

I would argue over those 11 games if he could have started the same team more than once we would have more wins and the style of play would be a lot better.

And whats wrong with a bit of ambition for once for the senior team?

Honestly can you avoid engaging with him? He done the same thing during the last international window. "Stephen this, Stephen that. Blah, blah, blah" None of it genuine.

showpony1

showpony1 wrote: »

really incredulous

showpony1 wrote: »

a chancer

showpony1 wrote: »

reading on here that he is like Guardiola

showpony1 wrote: »

like Barcelona '09

showpony1 wrote: »

David Brent

Showpony don't do understatement...

johnnyryan89

sugarman wrote: »

Can see him starting 3-5-2 and going to 4-3-3 with the introduction of Ogbene / Curtis / Horgan / McClean later in the game. Had Ogbene not picked up a knock I reckon he'd have started him in a 4-3-3.

I'd have Ogbene up top in a 3-5-2. Played some of his best football with Limerick as a striker in a 3-5-2. Unfortunately for us we don't have Rodrigo Tosi to partner him up top.

athlone99

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Honestly can you avoid engaging with him? He done the same thing during the last international window. "Stephen this, Stephen that. Blah, blah, blah" None of it genuine.

Ya getting that feeling, not interested in a genuine debate. Just hates Kenny and wants him gone.

Fandymo

athlone99 wrote: »

Ok grand, the player who scored the winner and is playing champions league football, in tight games a player with a touch of class can be the difference. The rest play in the Belgian, Germany, Portugal and Ukrainian leagues.

If anything we are the ones with players playing in the dregs of the English lower leagues.

He played 177 minutes of CL football last season.

72 mins in a 3-0 tonking by a very poor Juventus.

72 mins in a 2-1 loss to a very poor Barcelona.

30 mins in a 2-0 defeat against a very poor Juventus.

4 mins vs Ferencvaros and 1 min against Ferencvaros.

The only time he’s scored double digits in a season was in the Swiss Championship when he got 13.

He’s not a world beater. He’s an extremely limited player. Cillian Sheridan has more CL experience than him and the same amount of goals. Maybe we should have put him up front vs Luxembourg.

Our players play in the Prem or Championship, bar the occasional token LOI player.

Fandymo

athlone99 wrote: »

Ok grand, different opinions are what make football great.

Since 2002, Crap football has qualified us for 2 out 9 tournaments. I would rather qualify for 2 out of the next 9 tournaments playing better football that suits our players. All of our players are playing passing football with their clubs. To me its madness to then try and play a different way. And in 2016 we only got in because it was an expanded tournament, 2012 to me was a proper achievement to qualify even if we were embarrassed at it.

I've no problem mixing it up a bit but to do that we then need a striker who can hold up the ball and run the channels and we dont have that striker anymore so by trying to build out from the back and play to feet SK is trying to do something that suits the players he has.

Out of those 9 qualifying groups, how many times did we go 11 games without a win?

Kermit.de.frog

Fandymo wrote: »

Out of those 9 qualifying groups, how many times did we go 11 games without a win?

Good question. Have we ever gone 11 games with no win?

We all seem to accept player for player this one of, if not the worst, Irish teams ever and the stats are not lying right now!

Question is get rid of Kenny and could anyone else do better? It's a valid question tbf

Fandymo

athlone99 wrote: »

But i'm of the opinion we will be more competitive for the Euros campaign as the new style of play has bedded in.

Here's an extreme but comparable example. When Pep took over at City, they made so many mistakes in the first season, everyone in the media was laughing at them, saying you cant play this way in England, etc,etc but now they are lauded as one of the best teams ever.

I'm definitely not saying SK is Pep or we have players like City but if its given time i think it can and will improve.

Lets not forget MON got the team to the Euros but 6 months later was booed out of the Aviva because the football was crap. Nobody is playing long ball, up and at them football anymore, its all about control and passing out from the back.

Peps first season (playing the elite of England). First 19 games, 12 wins, 4 losses. Second 19 games, 11 wins, 2 losses. 38 games 23 wins, 6 losses, 9 draws.

Kennyball (playing the dregs of Europe): 11 games, 0 wins.

Comparable example?? I don’t think so.

athlone99

Fandymo wrote: »

Out of those 9 qualifying groups, how many times did we go 11 games without a win?

None but if we qualified for 2 tournaments and finished bottom of our group 7 times its still the same outcome. There are better ways to try and qualify.

If you take 2012, played poor enough defensive football but managed to qualify and although it was a touch group we were embarrassed. Players even said after wards they were embarrassed because we could not string more than 2 passes together.

Fandymo wrote: »

He played 177 minutes of CL football last season.

72 mins in a 3-0 tonking by a very poor Juventus.

72 mins in a 2-1 loss to a very poor Barcelona.

30 mins in a 2-0 defeat against a very poor Juventus.

4 mins vs Ferencvaros and 1 min against Ferencvaros.

The only time he’s scored double digits in a season was in the Swiss Championship when he got 13.

He’s not a world beater. He’s an extremely limited player. Cillian Sheridan has more CL experience than him and the same amount of goals. Maybe we should have put him up front vs Luxembourg.

Our players play in the Prem or Championship, bar the occasional token LOI player.

Point still stands, the one player playing in top level club competition was the match winner.

Lower end premier league and its getting to the stage where most players are now lower end championship/league 2.

Token LOI player? what are you saying here? Without the LOI our captain would not be playing premier league, ditto many of the squad. Have to attended watched LOI in recent years?

McFly85

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm all for giving people a fair crack of the whip but I expect a good win this evening and if we don't win I think any fair minded person would acknowledge Kenny is on very ropey ground, has had a good few games, a fair chance, and probably needs to go.

We'll see what happens.

I'd disagree with that, I think tonights game is completely meaningless, in that we won't learn anything significant about the team regardless of the result.

I think Kenny should get the end of this campaign regardless, and only if they finish below their seeding position should his job even be in question.

Ireland are in a position now with the quality of their squad that qualification probably isn't a realistic aim for a WC, and it might be for a Euros. In addition to that, the association is flat broke, and won't be in a position to hire any high profile manager for the foreseeable future. If there was ever time to give a manager time to see if he can improve the team over a couple of campaigns, it's now.

athlone99

Fandymo wrote: »

Peps first season (playing the elite of England). First 19 games, 12 wins, 4 losses. Second 19 games, 11 wins, 2 losses. 38 games 23 wins, 6 losses, 9 draws.

Kennyball (playing the dregs of Europe): 11 games, 0 wins.

Comparable example?? I don’t think so.

It takes time to change a style and mindset.

Ok grand you dont seem to like what SK is trying to do. Who should be the manager then?

athlone99

sugarman wrote: »

Yes, 21 streak in late 60s / early 70s ..and arguably even they had a better squad of players than we do now.

Just shy of 5 years without a win. and as you say probably a better squad than we have now.

Fandymo

athlone99 wrote: »

None but if we qualified for 2 tournaments and finished bottom of our group 7 times its still the same outcome. There are better ways to try and qualify.

If you take 2012, played poor enough defensive football but managed to qualify and although it was a touch group we were embarrassed. Players even said after wards they were embarrassed because we could not string more than 2 passes together.



Point still stands, the one player playing in top level club competition was the match winner.

Lower end premier league and its getting to the stage where most players are now lower end championship/league 2.

Token LOI player? what are you saying here? Without the LOI our captain would not be playing premier league, ditto many of the squad. Have to attended watched LOI in recent years?

So why didn’t Kenny have Cillian Sheridan in our squad? The currently available player with the most CL minutes. Token as in Mandriou, brought in to make up the numbers when players don’t turn up. Look at Jack Byrne, tore Bulgaria a new one when he came on to beat them 3~0 under Mick, can’t get a look in under Kennyball as we battle to a 0-0 and a 1-1 with them.

Kingp35

I was fully supportive of Kenny getting the job but I have been wholly unimpressed with how he has performed, albeit under difficult circumstances. The style he has implemented has been slow and ponderous, has made us weaker at the back and is no where near as attacking as some people think. Teams know to sit off us as we try pass it across the middle going no where. It's no surprise that Slovakia was our best performance so far, it was the one game with something on the line and the players gave it their all. We've totally regressed since then.

I've also been surprised by some of Kenny's selections, particularly when he chose to start Idah up front on his own when it was clear that he's currently way out of his depth and needs more time to develop.

It's pretty easy to say you want to implement a passing game, to keep the ball and use quick movement, actually implementing it is another story which we've failed to do so far.

The September matches are make or break for SK, he needs to pick up a win. Two losses and a draw could see the end of him irrespective of the two games this week.

Francie Barrett

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'm all for giving people a fair crack of the whip but I expect a good win this evening and if we don't win I think any fair minded person would acknowledge Kenny is on very ropey ground, has had a good few games, a fair chance, and probably needs to go.

We'll see what happens.

If he fails to win today, I think that'll be the end. He might limp on for a few more matches, but it would be a result that would be almost impossible to come back from.

I really don't think it comes to that though. Whatever about Luxembourg having a few decent options, this Andorran team and it looks really poor.

Fandymo

athlone99 wrote: »

It takes time to change a style and mindset.

Ok grand you dont seem to like what SK is trying to do. Who should be the manager then?

11 games against poor opposition. He’s tried and he’s failed, abysmally.

Brock Turnpike

FAIreland ⚽️🇮🇪 (@FAIreland) Tweeted:
Match-day Squad | Andorra 🆚 Ireland

We're just two hours away from KO ⏱️

Team news coming up 🔜

#ANDIRL | #COYBIG | #WeAre100 https://t.co/Bp4dAwimvf https://twitter.com/FAIreland/status/1400452215756800000?s=20

athlone99

Fandymo wrote: »

So why didn’t Kenny have Cillian Sheridan in our squad? The currently available player with the most CL minutes. Token as in Mandriou, brought in to make up the numbers when players don’t turn up. Look at Jack Byrne, tore Bulgaria a new one when he came on to beat them 3~0 under Mick, can’t get a look in under Kennyball as we battle to a 0-0 and a 1-1 with them.

Sheridan is 32 and playing in the Polish league, SK couldnt really do much travelling to see players, theres been a pandemic dont ya know.

Mandriou could well get a move soon and SK see's him as a good option at 10.

Fandymo wrote: »

11 games against poor opposition. He’s tried and he’s failed, abysmally.

So by using your own logic you are calling Ireland poor. glad we have come to an understanding.

johnnyryan89

sugarman wrote: »

No Omobamidele.

Looking like 4-3-3 with only three CBs named, unless Lee O'Connor is seen as an option there too.

Fandymo

athlone99 wrote: »

Sheridan is 32 and playing in the Polish league, SK couldnt really do much travelling to see players, theres been a pandemic dont ya know.

Mandriou could well get a move soon and SK see's him as a good option at 10.



So by using your own logic you are calling Ireland poor. glad we have come to an understanding.

Sheridan is our most experienced CL player. He has scored the same amount of CL goals as the Luxembourg player and played a lot more CL games than him, almost triple the minutes. You said “the player who scored the winner and is playing champions league football, in tight games a player with a touch of class can be the difference.” Surely that could be applied to Sheridan, yet Kenny has never mentioned him. Ibrahimovic is almost 40 and still playing.

You’re tying yourself in knots lol. The luxembourger in the CL must have a touch of class, but the Irish lad in the CL doesn’t count.

athlone99

Fandymo wrote: »

Sheridan is our most experienced CL player. He has scored the same amount of CL goals as the Luxembourg player and played a lot more CL games than him, almost triple the minutes. You said “the player who scored the winner and is playing champions league football, in tight games a player with a touch of class can be the difference.” Surely that could be applied to Sheridan, yet Kenny has never mentioned him. Ibrahimovic is almost 40 and still playing.

You’re tying yourself in knots lol. The luxembourger in the CL must have a touch of class, but the Irish lad in the CL doesn’t count.

And your point is? The one player from both squads who was selected that currently plays champions league football scored the winner. Whats Cillian Sheridan got to do with that? The last time he played Champions league football was 5 or 6 years ago. I think your the one tying yourself in knots. Roy Keane played champions league football a few years ago, should we call him up now too?

Using your logic the Irish players in the Dundalk squad should be starting for Ireland as they played Europa league.

Tchaikovsky

Francie Barrett wrote: »

If he fails to win today, I think that'll be the end. He might limp on for a few more matches, but it would be a result that would be almost impossible to come back from.

I really don't think it comes to that though. Whatever about Luxembourg having a few decent options, this Andorran team and it looks really poor.

Andorra are a dirty shower. Be prepared to watch 90 minutes of Irish players being kicked up in the air.

floorpie

Jack Byrne still injured?

johnnyryan89

floorpie wrote: »

Jack Byrne still injured?

He's back in training now a couple of weeks.

nazmoalex

That video is odd, looks like they've all checked to see if their laces are tied, at a funeral.

Christy Browne

Bazunu
Doherty - Egan - O'Shea - McClean
Cullen
Knight - Hourihane
Parrott - Collins - Curtis

Fairly grim but don't know what I was expecting. McClean at left full is a joke.

johnnyryan89

4-2-3-1 with Parrott playing as the ten.

Brock Turnpike

Can't get my head around McClean at LB. Really can't. He must have incriminating pictures of someone within the setup.

johnnyryan89

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Can't get my head around McClean at LB. Really can't. He must have incriminating pictures of someone within the setup.

Is there anyone else bar Manning. Cunningham asked not to be selected, and Stevens has an injury or asked not to be selected. I'd rather not see McClean starting, but we do need someone to play there and I'd rather see McClean back there than Conor Hourihane again.

Left back is a problem position for us with even the U21s fielding a winger in Will Ferry at LB yesterday.

Brock Turnpike

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

Is there anyone else bar Manning. Cunningham asked not to be selected, and Stevens has an injury or asked not to be selected. I'd rather not see McClean starting, but we do need someone to play there and I'd rather see McClean back there than Conor Hourihane again.

Left back is a problem position for us with even the U21s fielding a winger in Will Ferry at LB yesterday.

I would play Manning. Absolutely.

Kingp35

Awful by Kenny selecting McClean at LB. Baffling decision.

athlone99

Kingp35 wrote: »

Awful by Kenny selecting McClean at LB. Baffling decision.

How? Id rather McClean wasnt starting no matter what position but the only other option is Manning and he has been poor in the few games he played for Ireland. Best of a bad lot i think

johnnyryan89

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

I would play Manning. Absolutely.

And I said bar Manning because what happens if he gets injured five minutes into the match. Play McClean against Andorra and Manning against Hungary. As I said someone has to play there, and outside of Manning McClean does have the most appearances at LB.

Until a young LB starts playing regularly then McClean is probably going to be our emergency left back when others aren't available. Joel Bagan at Cardiff could be that player, but no more has been said about whether he's started his switch or not to play with us.

Kingp35

athlone99 wrote: »

How? Id rather McClean wasnt starting no matter what position but the only other option is Manning and he has been poor in the few games he played for Ireland. Best of a bad lot i think

McClean is a truly awful left back. Manning should be playing, it's that simple really. It's a waste of time playing him there as he's never going to start there in a qualifying game. At least there's a possibility of Manning starting a qualifier.

Did you smash it

It’s a friendly versus Andorra. As long as Kenny hasn’t picked Christy Brown to play left back we should be alright.

Mantis Toboggan

athlone99 wrote: »

Also to add to that i assume you were calling for MON and Micks heads when long ball football didnt qualify us for tournaments?

In fairness to MON he qualified us for the euros and had us really competitive and hard to beat. Mick was brutal but we still had a playoff for the euros which we fluffed.

athlone99

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

In fairness to MON he qualified us for the euros and had us really competitive and hard to beat. Mick was brutal but we still had a playoff for the euros which we fluffed.

Again the playoff was thanks to MON finishing bottom of the nations league, had nothing to do with Mick. MON has us competitive at the start but went downhill quick after the euros.

is_that_so

First time listening to Karen Duggan, very smart and articulate, and a good addition to the studio.

TheCitizen

athlone99 wrote: »

How? Id rather McClean wasnt starting no matter what position but the only other option is Manning and he has been poor in the few games he played for Ireland. Best of a bad lot i think

Because McClean isn’t and never was or ever will be flavour of the month with some on here. Collins up front as a striker is worrying, he’s been around a while and has never looked the answer at any point but maybe there’s no alternative for this?