Republic of Ireland Team Talk/News/Rumours 2020/2021 - see Mod Note in OP [18/11/20]

yourdeadwright

When you play Finland twice, Bulagaira, Wales & Slovakia and end up with 0 wins 3 defeats and 2 draws
Is poor nó matter the circumstances

Honestly I can't remember such an easy run of games on paper with such bad results

Not calling for the manger to be sacked that be stupid at this stage but it's been a poor start

Like everyone else I hope we turn it around

Pawwed Rig

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

On the plus side Ireland have probably been slightly the better side in all three games in general play. Plenty of possession. Not chasing after the ball for 90 minutes.

On the debit side not being able to score any goals is going to hard to overcome for any manager.

Hit the crossbar and forced a good save at the end. Goals will come


soon


I hope

noodler

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

26 appearances 2 goals in league with 1 more in the cup. Not good enough for a centre forward. Ings is sleeping well at night with that kind of form. Rarely hit double figures in a season. Last time was 15/16

He was deemed good enough to play with Inga for 26 appearances and was a good foil for the main man.

Lots of beside the point points in that reply that have been flogged to death tbh. The point in question was was he playing and was he playing well and be was.

TheCitizen

DeanAustin wrote: »

Calling it a very poor start is harsh given everything he's dealing with. Been slightly disappointing for me with some encouraging signs.

He's, what, 5 games in? I'd give him quite a few more before I'd even start to form a solid opinion.

We have another two games next month. He needs results in those. He needs a win over Bulgaria otherwise it ain’t happening. Pressure on him and the players in those two games, hopefully they can respond and take whatever opportunities come their way.

Mantis Toboggan

DeanAustin wrote: »

Calling it a very poor start is harsh given everything he's dealing with. Been slightly disappointing for me with some encouraging signs.

He's, what, 5 games in? I'd give him quite a few more before I'd even start to form a solid opinion.

I don't think anyone is calling for him to be sacked but he's not above criticism.

It has been a poor start. Let's call a spade a spade here.

DeanAustin

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

I don't think anyone is calling for him to be sacked but he's not above criticism.

It has been a poor start. Let's call a spade a spade here.

Poor or disappointing I could go with but very poor seems a touch harsh to me. He deserves to be criticised the same as anyone else would be, I agree.

But it’s very early days. He’s had five games. He’s lost 2. People saying he needs wins in the next 2 or that’s it are being trigger happy.

He’s had few proper training sessions, he’s trying to change how we play and he’s been hit with losing players to Covid.

I’d give him the next campaign and if he’s competitive in that, the one after too.

I’m not an advocate for Kenny. Ultimately, I think what he’s trying is too ambitious and he isn’t the man to do it anyway. But he deserves a fair crack of the whip and I’d love him to prove me wrong.

~Rebel~

One way of looking at the bit of progression is the way Robbie Keane gets brought up. He's always brought up, ever since he retired, but how it's said has notably changed.

For the first few years it was; "Wish we had Robbie to score us some goals."

Which over the past 4 years became; "Robbie would make no difference, as there's no chances to take".

Now it's; "Wish we had Robbie up front to take some of these chances".

I'll take chances over no chances any day of the week, as at least it's a step closer to doing something.

Maybe we'll take that next big step, maybe we won't, I'm certainly gonna give Kenny at least 2 more meetups before I start judging too harshly anyway. 4 mini-sessions on the training pitch is hardly too much to ask for when you're changing the way a team plays.

DeanAustin

~Rebel~ wrote: »

One way of looking at the bit of progression is the way Robbie Keane gets brought up. He's always brought up, ever since he retired, but how it's said has notably changed.

For the first few years it was; "Wish we had Robbie to score us some goals."

Which over the past 4 years became; "Robbie would make no difference, as there's no chances to take".

Now it's; "Wish we had Robbie up front to take some of these chances".

I'll take chances over no chances any day of the week, as at least it's a step closer to doing something.

Maybe we'll take that next big step, maybe we won't, I'm certainly gonna give Kenny at least 2 more meetups before I start judging too harshly anyway. 4 mini-sessions on the training pitch is hardly too much to ask for when you're changing the way a team plays.

Fair points.

You did miss the bit about Robbie when he was playing though from those saying “he’s a selfish, overrated prick. Scores all his goals against minnows. Shane Long is a better option.”

The level of disrespect that Robbie got was frightening.

SomethingElse

~Rebel~ wrote: »

One way of looking at the bit of progression is the way Robbie Keane gets brought up. He's always brought up, ever since he retired, but how it's said has notably changed.

For the first few years it was; "Wish we had Robbie to score us some goals."

Which over the past 4 years became; "Robbie would make no difference, as there's no chances to take".

Now it's; "Wish we had Robbie up front to take some of these chances".

I'll take chances over no chances any day of the week, as at least it's a step closer to doing something.

Maybe we'll take that next big step, maybe we won't, I'm certainly gonna give Kenny at least 2 more meetups before I start judging too harshly anyway. 4 mini-sessions on the training pitch is hardly too much to ask for when you're changing the way a team plays.

How long do you think Robbie Keane is retired?

Arthur Daley

A win over Bulgaria is vital and the draw in Wales will do.

Look at Ireland's old sparring partner of recent years Denmark. Getting a result at Wembley currently to burst England's bubble. Ireland could have nicked the win at home to them 12 months ago to qualify automatically. These are the fine lines.

Kenny is on the right track. Some nice moves put together and an idiotic goal handed it to Finland.

~Rebel~

SomethingElse wrote: »

How long do you think Robbie Keane is retired?

Ha, true enough, replace the first bit with "initial reaction".

I'm only after finishing the match now.

We're playing a tad better, creating a bit more but just always manage to cough up one.

I dont want to see Hournihane and Hendrick playing together again if the 3rd midfielder isnt effectively a striker.
Molumpy could come in for one of them as well but it's our CMs that are killing us and Kenny is responsible for that.

We create zilch through the middle so are 100% reliant on crosses.

McGuire was an awful inclusion and again that's on Kenny.
He has found his standard as being a squad player at championship, he doesn't score at that level.
Some awful touches and when Horgan won that ball at midfield his bad touch and bad pass cost a dangerous counter attack.

Need to see changes in midfield or this will keep happening.

TheCitizen

I see Scotland are a win or two away from a guaranteed WC play off via the Nations League. This will happen as A league teams will probably qualify via the normal groups so it’ll be the best performing B league teams that will get the WC playoff, yet on here posters are telling us the Nations League games are “glorified friendlies”.

Scotland wouldn’t be better than us for players to choose from. They seem to be turning a corner there with experienced Steve Clarke getting them well drilled. They’re winning games with players out through injury and Covid etc.

Stephen Kenny has to be given time, Clarke was given time. He needs to beat Bulgaria though. If he can’t win that his job could be on the line.

Francie Barrett

sugarman wrote: »

Having a look at results elsewhere tonight and there's still a good chance for us to make second seeds for the World Cup draw with wins next month.

NI, Slovakia and Romania all lost tonight.

Getting into pot 2 is huge. Looking at the current rankings, on a good day, we could get this amazing draw.

Switzerland
Ireland
Hungry
Luxembourg
Lithuania

billymitchell

Some people's opinion of what we should be getting out this group of Irish players is gas. If we had really good players and we're playing poor and not getting results, then I'd be getting the daggers out. But we got very average players, a lot not playing regularly, some people's expectations of what we should be doing performance and results wise are way off.

I'd love us to punch above our weight, but realistically we have limited players, the results will match. Changing the manager won't change the best 11 available to us.

I hope Kenny gets given 12-18 months to try and make a go of it. First manager I've been excited to see take charge in years.

Brock Turnpike

Jayson MOLUMBY

Jesus ****ing christ. Is it really that difficult to spell? Where are all these "p" and "ph"s coming from!?

Collie D

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

Jayson MOLUMBY

Jesus ****ing christ. Is it really that difficult to spell? Where are all these "p" and "ph"s coming from!?

Ha, I’ve been biting my tongue for weeks on that one.

I was also going to try be a smart **** and correct you on the Y in Jayson but looked it up first to be sure Learn something new every day.

eire4

billymitchell wrote: »

Some people's opinion of what we should be getting out this group of Irish players is gas. If we had really good players and we're playing poor and not getting results, then I'd be getting the daggers out. But we got very average players, a lot not playing regularly, some people's expectations of what we should be doing performance and results wise are way off.

I'd love us to punch above our weight, but realistically we have limited players, the results will match. Changing the manager won't change the best 11 available to us.

I hope Kenny gets given 12-18 months to try and make a go of it. First manager I've been excited to see take charge in years.

We are living in the reality of the talent pool or lack thereof produced by decades of FAI refusal/mismanagement in terms of setting up the proper structures at the younger ages to allow for the steady development of players capable of playing at the top level. Allied to the lack of spots available to Irish players in the bigger academies across the water since money flooded into the game there and saw players been brought in from all over the world.

There are the beginnings of the proper structures being put in place within Ireland such as the underage national leagues and some sort of academy systems developing at clubs like Bohemians St Patricks Athletic and Shamrock Rovers. But we have a long long road ahead of us and I do not envy Stephen Kenny the task he has on his hands.

scouserstation

eire4 wrote: »

We are living in the reality of the talent pool or lack thereof produced by decades of FAI refusal/mismanagement in terms of setting up the proper structures at the younger ages to allow for the steady development of players capable of playing at the top level. Allied to the lack of spots available to Irish players in the bigger academies across the water since money flooded into the game there and saw players been brought in from all over the world.

There are the beginnings of the proper structures being put in place within Ireland such as the underage national leagues and some sort of academy systems developing at clubs like Bohemians St Patricks Athletic and Shamrock Rovers. But we have a long long road ahead of us and I do not envy Stephen Kenny the task he has on his hands.

This is it in a nutshell, we have failed to develop the game in this country for decades, mis-managed by our own national organisation, for years we didn't have proper underage structures, a domestic league that has been ignored and neglected and un supported by soccer fans in this country,

You have supporters flying over to the UK on a regular basis spending their hard earned money propping up British clubs who scoff at people that support league of Ireland football and then wonder why we have a national side that struggle against teams like Georgia and Bulgaria, unfortunately you reap what is sown in the long run

TheCitizen

“Jason Molunphy is a good player but not a great player” - Eamon Dunby

eire4

scouserstation wrote: »

This is it in a nutshell, we have failed to develop the game in this country for decades, mis-managed by our own national organisation, for years we didn't have proper underage structures, a domestic league that has been ignored and neglected and un supported by soccer fans in this country,

You have supporters flying over to the UK on a regular basis spending their hard earned money propping up British clubs who scoff at people that support league of Ireland football and then wonder why we have a national side that struggle against teams like Georgia and Bulgaria, unfortunately you reap what is sown in the long run

Sadly all very true. Hope springs eternal though although given how far behind we we have a long road ahead of us. I just hope we can build on the fledgling structures we have put in place in more recent years.

Blanco100

Where did Aaron Connolly get his Dublin accent from?

pgj2015

Millumpty is average enough in fairness. Kenny should just do shooting practice for the whole training session?

That 'Shane Long' couldn't hit the side of a 'Renault Espace!'

Mantis Toboggan

The style of play isn't too bad but you're always likely to make mistakes especially when you're only meeting up every few months. Sometimes a direct approach can be the best option.

We're slowly turning into Georgia, decent style lots of silky touches and sideways passes but ultimately cannot score.

ThunbergsAreGo

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

The style of play isn't too bad but you're always likely to make mistakes especially when you're only meeting up every few months. Sometimes a direct approach can be the best option.

We're slowly turning into Georgia, decent style lots of silky touches and sideways passes but ultimately cannot score.

Made the exact same Georgia comparison last night.

People seems happier passing and losing so far.

Myself, I am happy to give him time and treat it as a transitional time, where we learn more about players on the team. I do however agree that we are at our best with a 4-4-2 high pressing, high energy game.

Brock Turnpike

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

The style of play isn't too bad but you're always likely to make mistakes especially when you're only meeting up every few months. Sometimes a direct approach can be the best option.

We're slowly turning into Georgia, decent style lots of silky touches and sideways passes but ultimately cannot score.

And did you form that opinion yourself or did you take it directly from the lads on OTB last night?

bocaman

Kenny has had a terrible run of bad luck with Covid. I'd write off the last three games and take it from there. The style of play has improved greatly but we do need to start scoring.

ballsymchugh

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

The style of play isn't too bad but you're always likely to make mistakes especially when you're only meeting up every few months. Sometimes a direct approach can be the best option.

We're slowly turning into Georgia, decent style lots of silky touches and sideways passes but ultimately cannot score.

might have a better chance of beating them next time then

Brock Turnpike

Stephen Kenny's first 5 games:
3 draws*, 2 losses
*lost on pens

Bulgaria Away: 1-1 Draw
• 62% possession
• 581 passes
• 87% pass success
• 14 Attempts (3 on target)

Finland Home: 0-1 Defeat
• 52% possession
• 490 passes
• 89% pass success
• 13 Attempts (4 on target)

Slovakia Away: 0-0 draw (lost on pens)
• 46% possession
• 489 passes
• 80% pass Success
• 13 attempts (3 on target)

Wales Home: 0-0 draw
• 50% possession
• 546 passes
• 84% pass success
• 11 shots (2 on target)

Finland Away: 0-1 Defeat
• 47.5% possession
• 462 passes
• 84% pass success
• 10 Attempts (4 on target)


Stephen Kenny's first 5 games avg.:

Avg. possession = 51.5%
Avg. passes = 513.6
Avg. pass success = 84.8%
Avg. Shots = 12.2
Avg. SOT = 3.4

Stephen Kenny's first 5 games totals:
Total Shots = 61
Total SOT = 17
Goals For = 1
Goals against = 3
Goal Difference = -2

All stats taken from Whoscored.com

Mars Bar

https://twitter.com/gerramia/status/1316648637154422785?s=19

Worth reading the full thread.

The people who are not invested or haven't been involved in the grassroots and youth game over the past decade or so are the ones calling for Kenny's sacking.

Those of us who can see the big picture are happy with what we have been seeing so far. The players with the best returns over the past 5 games are, and it's not a coincidence, the ones who have come through "the system". They understand what's being asked of them.

Still need to find that clinical goal scorer though!

Mantis Toboggan

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

And did you form that opinion yourself or did you take it directly from the lads on OTB last night?

Stolen directly from OTB but its the perfect analogy, makes sense. We're a big bag of nothing at the moment.

weldoninhio

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Stolen directly from OTB but its the perfect analogy, makes sense. We're a big bag of nothing at the moment.

You’re not allowed tell people that the new emperor has no clothes on.

Raoul

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Stolen directly from OTB but its the perfect analogy, makes sense. We're a big bag of nothing at the moment.

But you are also only portraying one side of that discussion. The conversation talked about Georgia playing that style of football which is great but that they were slow and the players aren't that good. So, if we could play that same style except with our better players we should be able to get better results from it.

Mantis Toboggan

Mars Bar wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gerramia/status/1316648637154422785?s=19

Worth reading the full thread.

The people who are not invested or haven't been involved in the grassroots and youth game over the past decade or so are the ones calling for Kenny's sacking.

Wow, that's a fair statement with absolute no evidence. Complete manure tbh.

Anyway who are all these people calling for Kenny to be sacked??

Tchaikovsky

He's had a sh1t-tonne of bad luck so far with on and off the field occurances. The progress made despite this is really encouraging. People seem to forget that Mick McCarthy went something like 7 games without a win at the start of his first tenure, while trying to impose a new style and bring in young players.

weldoninhio

Tchaikovsky wrote: »

He's had a sh1t-tonne of bad luck so far with on and off the field occurances. The progress made despite this is really encouraging. People seem to forget that Mick McCarthy went something like 7 games without a win at the start of his first tenure, while trying to impose a new style and bring in young players.

Stupid comparison.

HUGE gulf in the teams Mick played against vs who Kenny has faced.


Kenny: Finland x2 , Bulgaria, Slovakia, Wales.

Mick: Russia, Czech Republic, Portugal, Croatia, Holland, USA, Mexico.

pgj2015

I was watching the game last night, they mentioned the finnish players and said so and so plays in the Norwegan league, so and so plays in Cyprus. ffs most of our players play in the premier league, pukii is there best player and he plays in the championship. not good enough.

Raoul

pgj2015 wrote: »

I was watching the game last night, they mentioned the finnish players and said so and so plays in the Norwegan league, so and so plays in Cyprus. ffs most of our players play in the premier league, pukii is there best player and he plays in the championship. not good enough.

Doherty, Stevens, Hourihane, Hendrick and Connolly. So less than half the team play in the premier league and Hourihane isn't even playing at the moment. Apart from Doherty, none of the other players are playing for top sides. Villa nearly relegated last year. Brighton and Sheffield Utd are just about mid table teams.

johnnyryan89

pgj2015 wrote: »

I was watching the game last night, they mentioned the finnish players and said so and so plays in the Norwegan league, so and so plays in Cyprus. ffs most of our players play in the premier league, pukii is there best player and he plays in the championship. not good enough.

And? Iceland shook the Euros four years ago with lads who played in leagues like that. It's the joys of backing a manager and giving him time.

pgj2015

Raoul wrote: »

Doherty, Stevens, Hourihane, Hendrick and Connolly. So less than half the team play in the premier league and Hourihane isn't even playing at the moment. Apart from Doherty, none of the other players are playing for top sides. Villa nearly relegated last year. Brighton and Sheffield Utd are just about mid table teams.

They are still premier league teams, randolph also plays in the premier league. the premier league is miles ahead of the norwegian league or the cyprus league.

weldoninhio

pgj2015 wrote: »

They are still premier league teams, randolph also plays in the premier league. the premier league is miles ahead of the norwegian league or the cyprus league.

As is the Championship.

pgj2015

kevin long, james mccarthy. seamus coleman, shane duffy. shane long, callum robinson. a few premier league players you forgot to mention. most of our team is playing in the premier league. we could easily pick a team where the 11 are all premier league players.

yourdeadwright

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

And? Iceland shook the Euros four years ago with lads who played in leagues like that. It's the joys of backing a manager and giving him time.

Ye but Iceland play to there strengths
They realise how poor they are and do not try to play expansive football
The joys of a manger knowing what his team are and what style is giving them the best chance of getting a result ,

We on the other hand want to be something we are not capable of being .

johnnyryan89

pgj2015 wrote: »

kevin long, james mccarthy. seamus coleman, shane duffy. shane long, callum robinson. a few premier league players you forgot to mention. most of our team is playing in the premier league. we could easily pick a team where the 11 are all premier league players.

And? You were going on about how Byrne needs a chance and people shouldn't be using the level he plays at to knock him, but you use the level that some Finnish players are playing at to try knock them just because we've lads that play in the premier league. So what makes Byrne deserving of a chance over premier league players then? If these premier league players should be head and shoulders above lads that play in Norway then why are you advocating for a lad that plays in Ireland, a league worse off than Norway and Cyprus.

Wuff Wuff

pgj2015 wrote: »

kevin long, james mccarthy. seamus coleman, shane duffy. shane long, callum robinson. a few premier league players you forgot to mention. most of our team is playing in the premier league. we could easily pick a team where the 11 are all premier league players.

Duffy plays for Celtic in the SPL

Long x 2, Robinson, McCarthy, Coleman didnt play last night so i think thats why they werent mentioned in comparison to the Finland players, only Pl player off the bench was Brady

Mantis Toboggan

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Wow, that's a fair statement with absolute no evidence. Complete manure tbh.

Anyway who are all these people calling for Kenny to be sacked??

We've had posters says the only reason they watch Ireland is to see Kenny fail.

I appreciate this is not a club superthread, but it's the type of post that would be removed from them.

LuckyLloyd

johnnyryan89 wrote: »

And? You were going on about how Byrne needs a chance and people shouldn't be using the level he plays at to knock him, but you use the level that some Finnish players are playing at to try knock them just because we've lads that play in the premier league. So what makes Byrne deserving of a chance over premier league players then? If these premier league players should be head and shoulders above lads that play in Norway then why are you advocating for a lad that plays in Ireland, a league worse off than Norway and Cyprus.

Presumably because Byrne would fit the style of play that is seemingly intended better than Kendrick?

The playing pool is very poor, no arguments here. That said, this same playing pool survived three of four games against Switzerland and Denmark (far superior opposition to Finland) in our last group with a result. And were knocking on the door at the end against Switzerland and Denmark for a winner.

At its most simple: I really didn't expect Kenny to go through this slate of games without a win and have a 480 min stretch without a goal. It's our worst stretch of results since Staunton.

Raoul

pgj2015 wrote: »

kevin long, james mccarthy. seamus coleman, shane duffy. shane long, callum robinson. a few premier league players you forgot to mention. most of our team is playing in the premier league. we could easily pick a team where the 11 are all premier league players.

Not when those players aren't available for selection through injury or covid related absences.

Do you not realise how important it is to have a stable team? It's not like fantasy football where you can just slot players in and they will play exactly to their level. They actually need to have a rapport with the other players. There were times where Connolly and Maguire got in each others way, that isn't down to them not being decent players, it is because they have literally been thrown in the pitch together without ever having played together before.

Same goes for Connolly and Horgan, Connolly got to the byline and instead of pulling it back to the penalty spot where Horgan was standing waiting, he drilled it across the box. You can bet if they were in the same position in the next game, Connolly might look up and find Horgan standing there and he gets in a decent shot.

Same goes for Stevens and McClean last week. The partnership was sh1te because Stevens looks up and where is McClean, he is running away from him. That one may just be down to McClean but perhaps if they played together more often, McClean would come short and they would play a one-two. But, unfortunately Connolly (who you would assume Enda Stevens has been training beside all week) was ruled out of the game at short notice.

There is a lot to be said for stability in team. It can't just be plug and play and expect results. I actually think the fact that we have had opportunities and created chances and played reasonable possession football despite the necessity of having to plug and play people is a good sign.

Captain Havoc

weldoninhio wrote: »

Stupid comparison.

HUGE gulf in the teams Mick played against vs who Kenny has faced.


Kenny: Finland x2 , Bulgaria, Slovakia, Wales.

Mick: Russia, Czech Republic, Portugal, Croatia, Holland, USA, Mexico.

Mick had Roy Keane, Denis Irwin, Paul McGrath and a host of other premier league players.

johnnyryan89

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Presumably because Byrne would fit the style of play that is seemingly intended better than Kendrick?

The playing pool is very poor, no arguments here. That said, this same playing pool survived three of four games against Switzerland and Denmark (far superior opposition to Finland) in our last group with a result. And were knocking on the door at the end against Switzerland and Denmark for a winner.

At its most simple: I really didn't expect Kenny to go through this slate of games without a win and have a 480 min stretch without a goal. It's our worst stretch of results since Staunton.

I'd like to see him get some minutes, but you can't be trying to big up Byrne and playing down the level he plays at to then turn around and pass comment about the level that some other players play at because we've got lads lucky enough to be employed by premier league teams.