Minister for Agriculture attends 81-person golf event in breach of health guidelines

Cute Hoor

Barbeapapa wrote: »

Is there any reason why Phil Hogan would break form and start telling the truth at this stage?

He seems to have a loose relationship with facts and truth and with being straightforward so I'm not sure I would believe him if he told me today is Tuesday.

I imagine he has just published a 20 page novel for his boss.

I don't think so, it would be a real challenge for him, it now looks that he pretty much did a tour of the country

the purple tin

Cute Hoor wrote: »

Well he could have logged his trip to Adare Manor and Dunraven Arms, tisn't easy rememberin all these places you've been

Phil would have a brand new merc or beemer I assume with onboard GPS. Could he not access the car's computer and see where he has been and when.

Gooey Looey

the purple tin wrote: »

Phil would have a brand new merc or beemer I assume with onboard GPS. Could he not access the car's computer and see where he has been and when.

His phone would even tell him, mine does

Cute Hoor

the purple tin wrote: »

Phil would have a brand new merc or beemer I assume with onboard GPS. Could he not access the car's computer and see where he has been and when.

The next statement (with the Adare bit) will be the ninth from Phil

the purple tin

Cute Hoor wrote: »

The next statement (with the Adare bit) will be the ninth from Phil

At what stage do you stop digging yourself into a hole, throw up your hands and just lay all your cards on the table.
I suppose if you are a politician the answer is never.

golfball37

Tourism industry on its knees and the best the media can do is vilify a citizen who lives abroad for the crime of supporting various Irish businesses.

ohnonotgmail

golfball37 wrote: »

Tourism industry on its knees and the best the media can do is vilify a citizen who lives abroad for the crime of supporting various Irish businesses.

yeah that is what is happening. Jesus.

OMM 0000

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

How did we let these clowns (FF) back into power so soon after the last mess? Self serving gombeen arseholes.

The average person is stupid.

Cute Hoor

I suspect that the Examiner has had all of these little titbits in their locker for a while, they just wait for Hogan's latest statement and then release the next bit.

josip

Edgware wrote: »

"a log of all his movements" Ooooh Matron!

At least it's not all his log movements.

maestroamado

blackwhite wrote: »

It would be highly unusual for a Commissioner to be sacked over domestic issues. I get the impression that Ursula is trying to give Hogan enough rope to hang himself. Getting caught lying to her, or using a Commission spokesperson to put out false statements, would allow her to claim he had breached her trust and sack him on that basis.

The Commission has always been very resistant of allowing domestic pressures come to bear on the Commission, hence she wouldn't appear to be setting a precedent if she had an EU-level offence to sack him for.

I agree as i thought that she was looking for more info to possibly keep Phil on board. I now think she ticking the boxes to avoid getting involved in legal stuff.
If she fires him the Government here can continue on as is if we let them.
If she keeps Phil on board our Government descredited and we likely have an Election when things settle with Covid.
I expet we know today...

ShamNNspace

Trouble is if she sacks him it'll likely end up in the courts, the last commissioner sacked still has a case going through the courts

ohnonotgmail

Hogan has published his timeline

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0825/1161161-phil-hogan/?utm_source=xtremepush&utm_medium=webpush&utm_campaign=EU+Commissioner+Phil+Hogan+publishes+timeline+of+his+movements+in+Ireland+and+reveals+golf+outing+in+Limerick+on+13+August+%28xtremepush+%2333464817%29&utm_term=notification+%23328030066_1188988837&utm_content=A

maestroamado

ShamNNspace wrote: »

Trouble is if she sacks him it'll likely end up in the courts, the last commissioner sacked still has a case going through the courts

That's also my view but me thinks she wants Phil gone and wants to tick the boxes...

I assume he owns the place in Kildare, i wonder was he there alone as this be very important.
I would not have a problem with someone going to another property they own to collect something.
I am assuming he own both properties and get in car, drive there without leaving car collect and return.
No interaction no problem...

seamus

Here's the full log published: https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0825/1161161-phil-hogan/

31 July – I arrived in Ireland, completed the statutory Passenger Locator Form and travelled to my temporary residence in Co Kildare.

5 August - I was admitted to a Dublin hospital for a medical procedure.

While in hospital, I tested negative for Covid-19 (www.citizensinformation.ie confirms that a negative test result ends the self-restriction period).

6 August - I was discharged from hospital and returned briefly to my temporary residence in Co Kildare.

7 August – I travelled to Kilkenny before the local lockdown rules came into effect at midnight in Co Kildare (and neighbouring counties Laois and Offaly).

12 August - I travelled to Dublin from Kilkenny for essential work reasons, which required my attendance at the European Commission office. While in Dublin, I also had separate meetings with the Tánaiste (Deputy Prime Minister) and with Minister Robert Troy, to brief them on events relating to ongoing negotiations with the U.S.

13 August – I played golf in Adare, Co Limerick and returned to Kilkenny.

17 August – I travelled from Co Kilkenny to Co Galway via Co Kildare. I stopped briefly in Co Kildare at the property in which I had been staying for the purpose of collecting some personal belongings and essential papers relating to the ongoing negotiations with the USTR, Robert Lighthizer, which continued while I was in Co Galway. This culminated in an agreement on a package of tariff reductions on 21 August.

18 August – I played golf in Co Galway, staying in Clifden. (no formal dinner or reception).

19 August – I played golf in Clifden, and subsequently attended a formal dinner for which I have since apologised.

21 August – I returned from Galway to my temporary residence in Co Kildare to collect my remaining personal belongings, including my passport, and stayed there overnight to catch an early morning flight to my primary residence in Brussels from the nearby airport.

22 August – I returned to Brussels.

Now, which journalist has the next bit of information to contradict this.

Edit: Actually, he seems to have erred on the negative test. This doesn't relieve him from the requirement to self-restrict. That smells like someone desperately trying to retroactively justify his behaviour.

blackwhite

maestroamado wrote: »

I agree as i thought that she was looking for more info to possibly keep Phil on board. I now think she ticking the boxes to avoid getting involved in legal stuff.
If she fires him the Government here can continue on as is if we let them.
If she keeps Phil on board our Government descredited and we likely have an Election when things settle with Covid.
I expet we know today...

Van der Leyden isn't going to care as to whether the Government here is discredited or not (and equally well, given they no longer have any authority over Hogan there's not much of his actions they can be blamed for at this stage).

The bigger issue she needs to consider is the perception of the EU in general, and the Commission in particular.

Brexit, and the similar anti-EU movements in other countries, have pushed the image of unaccountable bureaucrats and bigwigs who do and say what they want. If there's no consequences for Hogan from this, then that message is all the easier for Euro-sceptics to push.
Van de Leyden has to be conscious of that.

ShamNNspace

maestroamado wrote: »

That's also my view but me thinks she wants Phil gone and wants to tick the boxes...

Imv quite a few of these commissioners no matter what nationality are slippery characters in that the domestic government want to shuttle them off to Brussels mostly for a reason, necks as thick as asses collars the majority of em

Cute Hoor

12 August - I travelled to Dublin from Kilkenny for essential work reasons, which required my attendance at the European Commission office. While in Dublin, I also had separate meetings with the Tánaiste (Deputy Prime Minister) and with Minister Robert Troy, to brief them on events relating to ongoing negotiations with the U.S. I forget to mention that I travelled to Adare and stayed at the Dunraven Arms

blackwhite

seamus wrote: »

7 August – I travelled to Kilkenny before the local lockdown rules came into effect at midnight in Co Kildare (and neighbouring counties Laois and Offaly).

This bit reeks of getting out of Kildare after the lockdown was announced, but before it came into effect

Whilst strictly not a breach of the regulations, it's very clearly intended as exploiting a loophole.

Edgware

golfball37 wrote: »

Tourism industry on its knees and the best the media can do is vilify a citizen who lives abroad for the crime of supporting various Irish businesses.

The main crime is he thinking that the Irish people are fools and that he can do what he wants

seamus

blackwhite wrote: »

This bit reeks of getting out of Kildare after the lockdown was announced, but before it came into effect

Whilst strictly not a breach of the regulations, it's very clearly intended as exploiting a loophole.

Probably a stretch though, and he wouldn't be alone. I know someone who left Kildare on the 7th to stay in their mobile home, and has been commuting INTO Kildare to go to work ever since.

A breach of the spirit of the restrictions, but not an actual breach of them.

blackwhite

seamus wrote: »

Probably a stretch though, and he wouldn't be alone. I know someone who left Kildare on the 7th to stay in their mobile home, and has been commuting INTO Kildare to go to work ever since.

A breach of the spirit of the restrictions, but not an actual breach of them.

We were heading to visit relatives in the SE that Friday evening. Some amount of KE cars on the road

ChikiChiki

blackwhite wrote: »

We were heading to visit relatives in the SE that Friday evening. Some amount of KE cars on the road

Newsflash.... Just because someone drives a KE car doesn't mean they live there.

josip

Why would someone leave essential work documents somewhere for 10 days and then need them just before a golfing weekend where there's not much chance of getting any work done?

And not have needed them in middle of the 10 day period when he was in Dublin?
Or not have collected them from Kildare on the way up or down?

It's obvious that he was only collecting personal belongings from Kildare.

blackwhite

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Newsflash.... Just because someone drives a KE car doesn't mean they live there.

I know that.

But seeing plenty of cars on the M9 with KE regs joining at the Kilcullen and Athy junctions, some with roofboxes on the cars, did raise the suspicions just a little bit.

Danzy

blackwhite wrote: »

Van der Leyden isn't going to care as to whether the Government here is discredited or not (and equally well, given they no longer have any authority over Hogan there's not much of his actions they can be blamed for at this stage).

The bigger issue she needs to consider is the perception of the EU in general, and the Commission in particular.

Brexit, and the similar anti-EU movements in other countries, have pushed the image of unaccountable bureaucrats and bigwigs who do and say what they want. If there's no consequences for Hogan from this, then that message is all the easier for Euro-sceptics to push.
Van de Leyden has to be conscious of that.

In comparison to other Commissioners over the past few years this will he viewed as small.

Edgware

blackwhite wrote: »

I know that.

But seeing plenty of cars on the M9 with KE regs joining at the Kilcullen and Athy junctions, some with roofboxes on the cars, did raise the suspicions just a little bit.

Probably all rushing to brunch at the Berlin bar

blackwhite

Danzy wrote: »

In comparison to other Commissioners over the past few years this will he viewed as small.

In the scheme of what some have done then yes it is - but in terms of giving two fingers to the vast swathes of the EU that are still under some form of restrictions, it's public impact is still pretty high.

Loafing Oaf

seamus wrote: »

Now, which journalist has the next bit of information to contradict this.

Phil thinks he's in the clear but up pops the Examiner again:

maestroamado

In his statement Mr Hogan said that after being admitted to hospital for a medical intervention on August 5 he tested negatively for Covid-19.

"As I had received a negative Covid-19 test while in hospital, I was not under any subsequent legal requirement to self-isolate or quarantine."

This is from an article i just tead in the Examiner.
Correct me if i am wrong but my understanding is people must self-isolate for 2 week period after being abroad.
I was of the opinion that because Covid has a 14 day incubation period being a person could transmit even though they may not being infected themselves. I was out of the Country and this is what i did on return, someone suggested i get tested and i said that quarintine was 2 weeks regardless.
He seems to think once tested negative free to do as he pleases.
I think Phil Hogan is wrong on this one?
What's the view here...