Minister for Agriculture attends 81-person golf event in breach of health guidelines

IAMAMORON

Chiparus wrote: »

Who paid for the dinner, green fees and hotels?

You and I did, get over it. Taxes get paid by the many and the few.

You're also paying for the Garda enquiry (into a phucking golf dinner:mad:) ....and the broken traffic light in Kilnaleck, it all costs money.

the purple tin

Dustin says MM has confirmed a rebrand of FF to FFS

ChikiChiki

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You and I did, get over it. Taxes get paid by the many and the few.

You're also paying for the Garda enquiry (into a phucking golf dinner:mad:) ....and the broken traffic light in Kilnaleck, it all costs money.

There would no garda enquiry if there was no golf dinner. Cause and effect.

Username is apt.

jojofizzio

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

It was spread across 2 rooms though. These rules are only after being written. It is feasible that they could have believed that that was within the rules. There is a lot of that kind of thing going on with pubs etc. It isnt clearcut and I think that soneone could have attended under the belief that they were within the rules

I don’t see how a “partition “ separating the tables makes it two rooms?
Would they have accommodated a wedding of 300 by partitioning every group of 50 people?said partition removed for speeches it seems....

FrancieBrady

ChikiChiki wrote: »

There would no garda enquiry if there was no golf dinner. Cause and effect.

Username is apt.

There'd have been no golf dinner had the Gardai there done their jobs.

ChikiChiki

jojofizzio wrote: »

I don’t see how a “partition “ separating the tables makes it two rooms?
Would they have accommodated a wedding of 300 by partitioning every group of 50 people?said partition removed for speeches it seems....

And staff went between two rooms, attendees shared toilets etc. Waste of time. Tomorrows papers should have further detail.

Plumbthedepths

statesaver wrote: »

Folks seem to be more angry about this than the treatment of the elderly in nursing homes during the height of Covid.

It's possible to be angry about more than one thing at any given time.However you didn't hear the vox pops yesterday of people being furious a loved one died alone because of restrictions, others unable to attend funerals etc etc. The nursing homes have been mentioned multiple times over many threads here and have wrote about in the print media.
This thread however is about the elite in our society behaving as if the rules they make only apply to the plebs.

Cute Hoor

statesaver wrote: »

Folks seem to be more angry about this than the treatment of the elderly in nursing homes during the height of Covid.

And just in case anybody is unfamiliar with the treatment of the elderly in nursing homes during the height of Covid.

On February 28th NHI (Nursing Homes Ireland) emailed Department of Health "I note the HSE has confirmed in the media there is 'adequate stock'. This is not the case for our member nursing homes, who require stocks of PPE. We require confirmation of procedures in place to provide nursing homes with stocks of PPE". This was the first of almost daily emails from NHI to DofH.

DofH responded "We are following the advice of the Chief Medical Officer and NPHET and will follow-up with them regarding your query."

Tony Holohan "We wanted to have the country move in step with the advice, and have people follow the advice as we issued it. We didn't want to see a measure like restricting visitation to nursing homes - which is cutting people off from their loved ones - being introduced any earlier [than necessary]."

What Dr Holohan was talking about was advice given by Nursing Homes Ireland. On Friday 6 March, NHI issued a statement saying "visiting restrictions are now in place in nursing homes nationwide. No non-essential visiting, children, or groups will be allowed". In the wake of the NHI decision, NPHET released another statement. In it Dr Holohan said: "We ask that no organisation, school or health service provider acts unilaterally. We need to respond to the threat of Covid-19 in unison, following the advice of Public Health." In short, the NPHET view was, there was no need for visiting restrictions ... yet.

In an attempt to assuage fears, on the 6th March, HSE South sent a "letter of assurance" to local nursing homes. "We wish to stress that any patient discharged from CUH will have undergone a full risk assessment and full medical assessment and will be deemed low risk and suitable for discharge into the community," the letter read. This didn't mean that all patients were being tested before being transferred, but they were being assessed.

The NPHET view that visiting restrictions for nursing homes were not yet required remained unchanged over that weekend. Through the following Monday the advice on nursing home visiting restrictions stayed the same. It didn't change after a meeting at 2pm on the Tuesday, 10 March. The NPHET minutes from that day say "unilateral/widespread restriction of visiting to nursing homes, hospitals and healthcare facilities is not required at this time". Yet 36 hours later, the NPHET advice would be to stop nursing home visits, and the Taoiseach was addressing the nation live on TV - visiting restrictions were to be place in nursing homes from the morning of 13 March - the next day.

According to data based on testing at the time, three weeks on from the restrictions being implemented, 40 clusters had emerged in nursing homes.

Back to March 10th, the HSE issued guidance to hospitals and nursing homes, telling them the steps to take when moving people between the two. Specifically, on the transfer of patients with symptoms who were contacts of a confirmed case, but had not been tested themselves, it said: "Transfers to RCF (Residential Care Facilities) should proceed provided that the resident has had a sample reported as not-detected."

On March 30th new guidance was issued. "All transfers or admissions with current fever or symptoms of acute respiratory tract infection should be accommodated in their own room with bathing and toilet facilities and encouraged to stay in their own room and avoid contact with other residents. If not already done they should ask their doctor for advice on testing for Covid-19. Subsequent management is determined by the outcome of the assessment." "Although accepting admission or transfer of residents poses a risk of introducing Covid-19 to a [Residential Care Facility], this is considered a necessary risk in the context of maintaining access to a critical service and the risk can be mitigated by rigorously following this guidance."

Figures provided by NHI indicate around 1,000 people were transferred into nursing homes from acute hospitals during February and March.

"No information was provided with regard to accessing PPE equipment which is a critical requirement to support nursing homes." NHI CEO Tadhg Daly wrote again to the Department of Health on 13 March. "Nursing homes are reporting they're being inundated with calls from hospitals/HSE facilities enquiring about capacity to facilitate discharges/transfers".

The Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA), the State body which inspects and regulates nursing homes, was growing concerned. It also contacted departmental officials on 13 March, with a list of HSE-run homes it considered "at risk". HIQA says the correspondence received "an acknowledgement" on the same day.

On Monday 16th March, the Government published the National Action Plan on Covid-19. The 50-page document set a course for a "multi-agency public health-led" response to the coronavirus pandemic. It set the course for how State bodies would try to manage the crisis. The only specific mention of nursing homes in the document is in the part about acute services. The plan was to "on an ongoing basis, accelerate appropriate discharge of patients [from acute services] to appropriate facilities, or with homecare support".

NHI was still writing to the Department of Health in the meantime. "There is a critical issue with challenges of securing PPE for the nursing home sector", Tadhg Daly had written on 15 March. "Members are reporting that suppliers are not in a position to supply as they state they are supplying all such products exclusively to the HSE at this time." The health authorities were struggling to get enough PPE for their own staff and hospitals. At the same time, nursing homes were trying to buy PPE for their workers, and finding all of it had been bought up by the HSE.

By St Patrick’s Day, the HSE was undertaking a massive recruitment campaign to shore up the health system for the surge, while Nursing Homes Ireland was running a recruitment drive of its own, trying to get staff to replace people who are unavailable, sick, or in some cases, going to work for the HSE.

"We're very appreciative of your round-the-clock availability", NHI CEO Tadhg Daly wrote to senior managers in the Department of Health and HSE on 18 March, but, he said, the situation had grown especially urgent "in the past 24/48 hours". Requesting an immediate conference call, he said "the provision of PPE, oxygen and other required supplies is challenging to say the least, with many nursing homes exhausting their stock. An increasing number of nursing homes residents and staff are awaiting testing. Delays occurring can present cataclysmic consequences."

On March 18th, the NPHET Subgroup on Vulnerable People had been discussing nursing homes. The testing backlog was discussed, with the supply of reagents being highlighted as a significant problem when it came to getting results to tens of thousands of people. At the subgroup, it was decided there was a need to examine issues "arising in the (nursing home) sector". And "to develop proposed measures, including temporary financial support to respond to those issues, where necessary". A 'short-life working group' was set up. It would meet for the first time the following day.

The members of the new short-life working group came from the Department of Health, HSE, National Treatment Purchase Fund and HIQA, all of which are government bodies. When they heard about the working group, Nursing Homes Ireland wanted to be on it. Tadhg Daly wanted to know why he wasn't invited, by this point he was requesting an urgent meeting with Minister for Health Simon Harris about the crisis.

Tadhg Daly had begun writing directly to Minister Harris also by now, asking for emergency help for nursing homes, PPE, and a 50% increase in the State funding provided per person under the Fair Deal scheme. The next day, he wrote to officials about staffing problems. "As you are aware there are significant recruitment challenges in the sector. Members are reporting applications now withdrawn." He attached correspondence given to him from one nursing home, sent in by potential hire: "Due to developments with the government yesterday… It does not make sense for us financially, I have to put my family first in this situation." The staffing issue was now putting homes "at grave risk", Daly wrote on 25 March. Officials from the Department of Health responded almost immediately, saying colleagues in the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection were looking at the issue.

The NPHET nursing homes working group was having its third and final meeting by now, and examining a submission from Nursing Homes Ireland, detailing all their concerns about the sector. These now ranged from staffing to oxygen supply. On 26 March, the working group completed its work, and prepared to report upwards within NPHET.

On Sunday 29 March, a meeting was lined up between Nursing Homes Ireland, senior health officials, and the minister, to be held in the Department of Health. It took place at 2.30pm on the Monday. By then the first batch of PPE was on the way from China. "Fifteen years worth" of equipment had been ordered by the HSE. 24 clusters had been identified in nursing homes. A month later there was 219.

31st March, NPHET met, and considered a paper from its subgroup on vulnerable people. The minutes say: "It was agreed that the growing number of clusters of Covid-19 infections in nursing homes and residential healthcare settings ... requires an immediate and targeted focus on implementation of specific and enhanced public health measures for long term residential care centres."The HSE was asked to deploy "an integrated outbreak crisis management response across all long term residential care settings". On 4th April, the minister publicly announced a €72m support scheme for nursing homes.

Doctor Jimbob

Operation deflect in full force today I see.

the purple tin

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Operation deflect in full force today I see.

They are throwing everything but the kitchen sink at us so far.
I wonder what the next strategy will be? Watch this space...

ChikiChiki

Is this the strategy, civil war politics back with a bang it seems today. FF pointing towards the nursing homes for operation deflect. The knives are out.

Hawthorn Tree

In a debate in Seanad Éireann on 10 April 2008, Donie Cassidy stated the following about house prices in Ireland: "We have a duty to tell first-time house buyers, young couples with no previous experience, that there is unbelievable value in the marketplace today. It will not last forever. It is never the wrong time to do the right thing. I offer the House the benefit of my experience and my opinion which is all any Member can do. I will remind the House, perhaps in 12 or 18 months, when prices have again increased by 25% or 30%, that they were told this by the Leader of the House" In the event, 12 months later the average house price had decreased by 21.8%.

I imagine Donie was popular with first time buyers in 2008. Of course he has vested interests on the property front too.

What a vile group they got together in Clifden.

Field east

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd be quite happy to see them all fired, also whoever facilitated the event, but this idea that everyone should say feck the covid restrictions is just childish.
Whatever measures we took over the last few months should have been based on information, judgment and common sense. Not because a politician told us to do it.
It seems many people went too far sticking to the letter of the restrictions and they feel foolish now.

At least they are still alive. In the circumstances given , it made MUCH more sense to be ‘over foolish’ than ‘ under foolish’. Do you not think so. We are now in a much better position as to what to do and not do to avoid the virus

Acosta

tigger123 wrote: »

Sean O'Rourke was the opposite of a soft interviewer.

When he wanted to be. A very capable operator, but as with many other establishment journalists/presenters he was fairly selective with his approach to taking on politicians and others in positions of power.

Hawthorn Tree

McMurphy wrote: »

It's not a n overly long read, but it's a good one.

https://twitter.com/aoifegracemoore/status/1297059323655397376?s=19

Great post/read.

The Irish Examiner is a fine newspaper.

Gerry Hatrick

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Soft ball questions like the Maria Bailey interview?

Yeah actually. Bailey hung herself very little to do with SOR's questions. Don't get me wrong he's more than capable of ripping someone a new one just not his buddies in power.

TenLeftFingers

The Examiner, Aoife-Grace Moore & Co. did a great job. But, I saw that this meeting was in fact first highlighted on Radio na Gaeltachta on Tuesday, one day before the event itself and before it got any coverage in our English language media.

Muahahaha

I'm hearing reports that tomorrows Sunday newspapers are set to expand this scandal even further. Apparently the cutlery used at the golf dinner was supplied by a company that is owned by a member of Sinn Fein. And as you cannot have dinner without cutlery it is now clear that it was Sinn Fein who facilitated this FFG golf dinner. If true then this is absolutely scandalous and there needs to be a public inquiry about what other golf dinners with no social distancing Sinn Fein made happen. Its looking like this could turn out to be a resigning matter for Mary Lou

Gerry Hatrick

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'm hearing reports that tomorrows Sunday newspapers are set to expand this scandal even further. Apparently the cutlery used at the golf dinner was supplied by a company that is owned by a member of Sinn Fein. And as you cannot have dinner without cutlery it is now clear that it was Sinn Fein who facilitated this FFG golf dinner. If true then this is absolutely scandalous and there needs to be a public inquiry about what other golf dinners with no social distancing Sinn Fein made happen. Its looking like this could turn out to be a resigning matter for Mary Lou

:pac: Very good

I heard one the waiters was called Gerry. "What more evidence do you need for god's sake" :eek:

Cute Hoor

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Is this the strategy, civil war politics back with a bang it seems today. FF pointing towards the nursing homes for operation deflect. The knives are out.

I certainly wasn't trying to do that, as probably can be seen from any of my previous posts

Muahahaha

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

I imagine Donie was popular with first time buyers in 2008. Of course he has vested interests on the property front too.

What a vile group they got together in Clifden.

IIRC Donie Cassidy was one of the biggest property owners in the Oireachtas with some 40+ rental properties under his ownership. When he made that speech in the Seanad telling first time buyers there was fantastic value in the market and now is a great time to buy, etc basically what was happening was Donie was watching the value of all his properties crash through the floor and him trying to find mugs to enter the market to prop it up. He was using a national platform and parliament to try to stem the losses in his own property investments.

Hawthorn Tree

Muahahaha wrote: »

IIRC Donie Cassidy was one of the biggest property owners in the Oireachtas with some 40+ rental properties under his ownership. When he made that speech in the Seanad telling first time buyers there was fantastic value in the market and now is a great time to buy, etc basically what was happening was Donie was watching the value of all his properties crash through the floor and him trying to find mugs to enter the market to prop it up. He was using a national platform and parliament to try to stem the losses in his own property investments.

Yes absolutely correct. As I said, vile.

walshb

Has there been any verified breach of guidelines posted here relating to this event?

Just wondering...

Hawthorn Tree

walshb wrote: »

Has there been any verified breach of guidelines posted here relating to this event?

Just wondering...

A minister resigned.

Indoor events will be reduced from 50 people to just six people, except for businesses such as shops and restaurants.

Indoor weddings and some religious services, such as mass, are exempt from the new restrictions, meaning they can still take place with up to 50 people.

The 50 people includes staff.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Field East - Enda boycotted Browne's show. You do know this?

It was fairly clear what he was saying - 'play ball or we ignore you'.

And you do know WHY he boycotted the show?

You know, when VB tolded Enda Kenny to go into a dark room with a bottle of whiskey and gun and kill himself? A disgraceful statement to make and one which should have resulted in him resiging from his show.

You left out that little tidbit Francie.

Hawthorn Tree

markodaly wrote: »

And you do know WHY he boycotted the show?

You know, when VB tolded Enda Kenny to go into a dark room with a bottle of whiskey and gun and kill himself? A disgraceful statement to make and one which should have resulted in him resiging from his show.

You left out that little tidbit Francie.

Enda was in fear of his life of VB tearing him apart and you bloody well know it.
The flippant remark was wrong but Enda had already been avoiding VB out of complete and utter fear at being found out.

Cute Hoor

walshb wrote: »

Has there been any verified breach of guidelines posted here relating to this event?

Just wondering...

These are the guidelines


Cultural and social activities
Restaurants and cafes (including pubs that serve food and hotel restaurants)
they should close by 11.30pm
all customer facing staff to wear face coverings
all customers to wear face coverings until seated and again on departure
they are required to keep contact details to support contact tracing
all customers to be seated at a table, with no seating allowed at the bar and table service only
there should be a maximum of six people from no more than 3 households allowed at a table
no formal or informal events or parties should be organised in these premises
all tables must have hand sanitiser

What do you think?
By verifiable are you looking for photographic evidence

markodaly

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Enda was in fear of his life of VB tearing him apart and you bloody well know it.
The flippant remark was wrong but Enda had already been avoiding VB out of complete and utter fear at being found out.

The flippant remark was a disgrace. If any journalist said that today, they would be fired within a day.
I 100% stand by Enda not bothing talking to 'that man'.

Hawthorn Tree

markodaly wrote: »

The flippant remark was a disgrace. If any journalist said that today, they would be fired within a day.

Deflect Deflect Deflect.

markodaly

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Deflect Deflect Deflect.

Deflect?

We are talking about Enda Kenny who is not even a TD anymore and has not been Taosieach since 2017. VB is also retired... so what has this to do with the topic on hand?