PHIL HOGAN NEEDS TO RESIGN.

mick087

ec18 wrote: »

but like the attorney general, government advisers they are appointed by the government that the people elected. Philo was a TD before being nominated at as a commissioner.

Paul Gallagher SC was indeed appointed he is an legal adviser to our elected goverment. Our elected goverment takes advice from the him.

Why is giving the citizens of the EU the right to vote for its commissioners such an issue for you?

Why do you want an unelected elite few running the EU commission?
Why do you not want an EU commission accountable to its citizens?
Why do you not want a democratic EU commission?

Muahahaha

Get yisser t-shirts


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jm08

mick087 wrote: »

No EU commissioner is elected they are selected they are not accountable to its citizens.
Phil Hogan is proving how accountable to its citizens the EU unelected commissioners are.

According to the Lisbon Treaty:


B. Method of appointment
The Treaty of Lisbon stipulates that the results of the European elections have to be taken into account when the European Council, after appropriate consultations (as set out in Declaration 11 on Article 17(6) and (7) TEU as an annex to the Treaty) and acting by a qualified majority, proposes the candidate for President of the Commission to Parliament. This candidate is elected by Parliament by a majority of its component members (Article 17(7) TEU).



The Council of the European Union (hereinafter ‘the Council’), acting by a qualified majority and by common accord with the President-elect, adopts the list of the other persons whom it proposes for appointment as members of the Commission, on the basis of the suggestions made by Member States.


The President and the other members of the Commission, including the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, are subject to a vote of consent, as a body, by Parliament and are then appointed by the European Council, acting by a qualified majority.
Since the Treaty of Maastricht, a Commissioner’s term of office has matched the European Parliament’s five-year term and is renewable.


C. Accountability
1. Personal accountability (Article 245 TFEU)
Members of the Commission are required:

• To be completely independent in the performance of their duties, in the general interest of the Union; in particular, they may neither seek nor take instructions from any government or other external body;
• Not to engage in any other occupation, whether gainful or not.

Commissioners may be compulsorily retired by the Court of Justice, at the request of the Council or of the Commission itself, if they breach any of the above obligations or have been guilty of serious misconduct (Article 247 TFEU).

---

EU Commissioners are not answerable to EU Citizens.



https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/25/the-european-commission

Podge_irl

Muahahaha wrote: »

Hogan didnt implement Mercosur but he does support it and has said as much. If Brazilian beef ends up on Irish supermarket shelves there will be war with the farmers. Why should they be implementing higher standards in beef farming and traceability of food if the Brazilians can just come in and undercut them anyway.

Because higher standards and traceability is their USP. Why bother doing so if French or British beef can just come in and undercut them? Any Brazilian beef imported would have to conform to minimum EU standards anyway.

tigger123 wrote: »

It was privileged access by a golden circle that ultimately contributed to the economy going over the edge of a cliff.

But sure, nothing to see here. Be grand.

It seems like a potentially shady practice but it is really, really not what caused the economy to go over a cliff edge.

This seems tangentially related to Hogan at best.

RandomViewer

L1011 wrote: »

Sutherland wasn't a Minister, nor was David Byrne. They had both been AG, though.

I don't think we can send Woulfe!

FG nominees are usually dodgy, Hogan ,Sutherland wouldn't be out of place as henchmen in a Bond film

Podge_irl

mick087 wrote: »

Paul Gallagher SC was indeed appointed he is an legal adviser to our elected goverment. Our elected goverment takes advice from the him.

Why is giving the citizens of the EU the right to vote for its commissioners such an issue for you?

Why do you want an unelected elite few running the EU commission?
Why do you not want an EU commission accountable to its citizens?
Why do you not want a democratic EU commission?

You are aware that even if we had voted for Hogan Ireland would still not be able to demand his resignation at the moment? Commissioners are, for good reason, not subservient to member state governments.

mick087

First Up wrote: »

Commissioners are not accountable to the electorate.

No they are not accountable to its citizens you are correct.
Phil Hogan is proof of this fact.

mick087

Podge_irl wrote: »

You are aware that even if we had voted for Hogan Ireland would still not be able to demand his resignation at the moment? Commissioners are, for good reason, not subservient to member state governments.

Well if we had been given an option would the majority of people want him?

Commissioners should be subservient to its citizens and accountable to them.

jm08

mick087 wrote: »

Paul Gallagher SC was indeed appointed he is an legal adviser to our elected goverment. Our elected goverment takes advice from the him.

Why is giving the citizens of the EU the right to vote for its commissioners such an issue for you?

Why do you want an unelected elite few running the EU commission?
Why do you not want an EU commission accountable to its citizens?
Why do you not want a democratic EU commission?

Why do we think its a bad idea for EU citizens to directly elect EU Commissioners?
The same reason why it wouldn't be a good idea for citizens to direct elect Government Ministers.



I hope you voted against accepting the Lisbon Treaty because the present system is the one that was democratically voted for by the people of Ireland and no one expressed any concerns then about the method of appointing EU Commissioners, except to insist on that every country could nominate a Commissioner.

The Belly

Podge_irl wrote: »

You are aware that even if we had voted for Hogan Ireland would still not be able to demand his resignation at the moment?

Is that a good idea?

Commissioners are, for good reason, not subservient to member state governments.

They act in the interest of who exactly? Sounds a little bit like the ECB in the white heat of the financial crisis and that didnt go to well for us.

First Up

mick087 wrote:

No EU commissioner is elected they are selected they are not accountable to its citizens.

And if you thought about it at all you would understand why.

Commissioners are responsible for their portfolio across all member states, not just their own. If they are beholden to the electorate in only one country, they would be under pressure to - or open to being accused of - showing favour to that country. That could create friction between large and small member states that would undermine the whole EU concept.

But you have already shown an absence of understanding of the EU concept so no surprise there.

naraicjul

Is Hogan's report to Ursula in the public domain? If so, link please! THANKS....

jm08

The Belly wrote: »

Is that a good idea?

Yes. Otherwise the commission would turn into Healy-Rae style politics on steroids!

They act in the interest of who exactly? Sounds a little bit like the ECB in the white heat of the financial crisis and that didnt go to well for us.

They act in the best interests of all EU Member states. Similar to how the Taoiseach should act in the best interests of the country and not just of his party or constituency.

stockshares

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG nominees are usually dodgy, Hogan ,Sutherland wouldn't be out of place as henchmen in a Bond film

Wasn't Sutherland part of the Bildeburg group.
Coveney was his protege or puppet.

There's a YouTube video of them being chased down the street in Copenhagen.
https://youtu.be/ON73jvzqC6M

ExMachina1000

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

What has fairness got to do with anything? The requirements for people coming here from a red list country is to restrict ones movements for 14 days regardless of a test. However if reports are true Hogan was out dining with friends at the K club the day he arrived, before he tested negative.

Phil Hogan isnt going anywhere.

Gregor Samsa

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Phil Hogan isnt going anywhere.

That's because he's been everywhere :pac:

ExMachina1000

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

That's because he's been everywhere :pac:

And will continue to do so

mick087

jm08 wrote: »

According to the Lisbon Treaty:


B. Method of appointment
The Treaty of Lisbon stipulates that the results of the European elections have to be taken into account when the European Council, after appropriate consultations (as set out in Declaration 11 on Article 17(6) and (7) TEU as an annex to the Treaty) and acting by a qualified majority, proposes the candidate for President of the Commission to Parliament. This candidate is elected by Parliament by a majority of its component members (Article 17(7) TEU).



The Council of the European Union (hereinafter ‘the Council’), acting by a qualified majority and by common accord with the President-elect, adopts the list of the other persons whom it proposes for appointment as members of the Commission, on the basis of the suggestions made by Member States.


The President and the other members of the Commission, including the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, are subject to a vote of consent, as a body, by Parliament and are then appointed by the European Council, acting by a qualified majority.
Since the Treaty of Maastricht, a Commissioner’s term of office has matched the European Parliament’s five-year term and is renewable.


C. Accountability
1. Personal accountability (Article 245 TFEU)
Members of the Commission are required:

• To be completely independent in the performance of their duties, in the general interest of the Union; in particular, they may neither seek nor take instructions from any government or other external body;
• Not to engage in any other occupation, whether gainful or not.

Commissioners may be compulsorily retired by the Court of Justice, at the request of the Council or of the Commission itself, if they breach any of the above obligations or have been guilty of serious misconduct (Article 247 TFEU).

---

EU Commissioners are not answerable to EU Citizens.



https://www.europarl.europa.eu/factsheets/en/sheet/25/the-european-commission

No the unelected EU Commissioners are not answerable to EU Citizens.

We the citzens do not have the power to remove them or take there powers away.

ExMachina1000

mick087 wrote: »

No the unelected EU Commissioners are not answerable to EU Citizens.

We the citzens do not have the power to remove them or take there powers away.

Nothing would ever be done if everything had to be voted on in every eu country.

I write eu in small letters because it's a kip

Psychiatric Patrick

RandomViewer wrote: »

FG nominees are usually dodgy, Hogan ,Sutherland wouldn't be out of place as henchmen in a Bond film

More nonsense talk.

Sure how could auld fat guys fight 007 ?

They'd be the shady business and politics figures in the bad guys pocket.

And they'd in the Timothy Dalton films. The'd only be suited to the "nastiest Bond". If they turned up in one of the other guys films no one would be expecting such a brutal assault on the senses and the audience members would be throwing in their mouths.

Podge_irl

The Belly wrote: »

Is that a good idea?




They act in the interest of who exactly? Sounds a little bit like the ECB in the white heat of the financial crisis and that didnt go to well for us.

Yes it is a good idea. The Commission acts for the EU, not individual member states. We can't have a scenario where a Commissioner is being withdrawn every time they oversee something that has any negative consequences for their home country. The Commission would cease to function.

jm08

mick087 wrote: »

No the unelected EU Commissioners are not answerable to EU Citizens.

We the citzens do not have the power to remove them or take there powers away.

The same way we the citizens cannot remove Barry Cowen as Min. of Agric, but Michael Martin (who we didn't elect as Taoiseach) can as he appointed him.

Podge_irl

mick087 wrote: »

No the unelected EU Commissioners are not answerable to EU Citizens.

We the citzens do not have the power to remove them or take there powers away.

Technically you have no power to remove a Taoiseach either.

Zebra3

jm08 wrote: »

The problem was Fingleton and lack of regulation by the Central Bank. There would be an awful lot of people in jail if by taking a loan (even if at special low rates) and repaying it is somehow unethical. If he wasn't repaying the money, then there would be a problem.

And the problem was that top politicians were benefiting from this so allowed a financial disaster to happen because they were bought off by the personal benefits they received.

That's a form of corruption.

Plumbthedepths

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

Phil Hogan isnt going anywhere.

I'll remember to repost this quote, should you be wrong which I suspect maybe the case.

ExMachina1000

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'll remember to repost this quote, should you be wrong which I suspect maybe the case.

Yeah sounds good. Could be your 2020 highlight

jm08

Zebra3 wrote: »

And the problem was that top politicians were benefiting from this so allowed a financial disaster to happen because they were bought off by the personal benefits they received.

That's a form of corruption.

Fianna Fail were in power when all of this was happening. Hogan was just an opposition TD, so wouldn't have been regarded as a top politician.

mick087

First Up wrote: »

And if you thought about it at all you would understand why.

Commissioners are responsible for their portfolio across all member states, not just their own. If they are beholden to the electorate in only one country, they would be under pressure to - or open to being accused of - showing favour to that country. That could create friction between large and small member states that would undermine the whole EU concept.

But you have already shown an absence of understanding of the EU concept so no surprise there.

You have still not told me why an elite few should be slected rather than elected by its citizens.
I have explained 2 possible ways but you have no argument why EU Citizens should have the power to elect and remove the Commissioners.

I understand the workings of the unelected slected EU Commission perfect. This does seem to bother you. You have no argument to justify preventing the citizens from having a democratic elected by its citizens EU Commission.

Small insults will only show your arrogance in a difference of opinion.

is_that_so

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'll remember to repost this quote, should you be wrong which I suspect maybe the case.

I wouldn't hold it against anyone being wrong here. It could go either way. There's a lot we don't know, like the inside of Ursula's head!

First Up

mick087 wrote:

You have still not told me why an eleite few should be slected rather than elected by its citizens. I have explained 2 possible ways but you have no argument why EU Citizens should have the power to elect and remove the Commissioners.

I did precisely that in my last post. If you still don't understand it, I won't waste any more time trying to enlighten you