PHIL HOGAN NEEDS TO RESIGN.

ShamNNspace

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Correct.

That's how Ireland works. Reward utter incompetence with bigger/better jobs. His track record was appalling (e.g. Poolbeg incinerator)

+Eyre square, cases going through the courts long after he left, a complete shambles at the time

Hawthorn Tree

stockshares wrote: »

It was their(FG) collective stupidity that lost them their man in Brussels not the baying mob.

He should never had been appointed to Brussels. Failure and dishonesty should not be rewarded. For dishonesty read corruption.

Hawthorn Tree

ShamNNspace wrote: »

+Eyre square, cases going through the courts long after he left, a complete shambles at the time

I believe the Poolbeg incinerator cost a lot more.

Who does this remind you of?

Irish Water chief John Tierney has rejected for a second time a request to appear in front of TDs in relation to his role in the disastrous Poolbeg Incinerator.

The Irish Independent has learned that Mr Tierney wrote to the Oireachtas Environment committee this week and declined an invitation to attend.

It is the second time this year that he has turned down the committee's request to answer questions relating to his role in the project, which has already cost the taxpayer €108m.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tierney-snub-to-tds-over-probe-into-poolbeg-30348561.html

First Up

Hawthorn Tree wrote:

That's how Ireland works. Reward incompetence with bigger/better jobs. His track record was appalling (e.g. Poolbeg incinerator)

The other way Ireland works is to engage in local tribal warfare, carry grudges, envy those better off and happily fall off a cliff as long as someone else falls too.

All gloriously on display in this thread.

tom1ie

1641 wrote: »

People seem to be conflating two things.

Hogan behaved very badly by not isolating properly and by going to the golf event. Even worse was the way he handled in subsequently. He has always come across as arrogant. For his behaviour he deserved to go.

But, leaving personalities and party politics aside, this is definately a big loss for Ireland at this point. He would not have landed the Trade Commissioner job had he not been highly regarded within the Commission. The job is stragetically important to us - particularly as regards Brexit, but aso the US trade talks and trade conflicts.To say it doesn't matter what nationality has the job is rubbish. Sure they represent everyone, but every commissioner is also cognisant of his/her countries national interest. For example, would it matter if we didn't have a commissioner at all and instead there were two French or two Poles?

It is very unlikely our replacement will get the trade job - there will be many jockeying for it now and the boss is likely to want an experienced bod in the role. In the unlikely event we did retain it it would take some weeks for the appointment to be ratified and several for the person to read themselves fully into the role - never mind build up the key personal relationships. Their influence on the Brexit discussions will be minimal, if any at all.

This exactly.
Phil hogan is an arrogant so and so and tbh I don’t like him.
However I would still like him as commissioner involved in trade talks with the hope he would have a vested interest in Ireland, whilst keeping the likes of brexit in his mind.
Now, there might be a Greek commissioner for trade who couldn’t give a flying fcuk about Ireland or brexit.
I think the outrage brigade and the mainstream media are going to get up in arms over this but it’s up to the leaders of our country to govern and not be weather veins- opting for the popular opinion instead of looking at the bigger picture.
For all we know Phil was a pain in the hole for Ursula, so she’s solved a problem by getting rid of him only to give the trade commission to someone without such a vested interest.

ShamNNspace

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

I believe the Poolbeg incinerator cost a lot more.

Who does this remind you of?



https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tierney-snub-to-tds-over-probe-into-poolbeg-30348561.html

Oh it did for sure, but he still kept getting the gigs that was the problem

murpho999

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

Jeasus, we elected them in good faith to be one with the law. NOT above the law..my god listen to yourself....

Well were they breaking any laws at the dinner? Aren't they all guidelines.

I agree they did wrong and I'm not defending them but senior people who are in government have resigned.

Others have lost party whips.

What more do you want?

Just sacking everyone is not the answer.

Muahahaha

stockshares wrote: »

It was their(FG) collective stupidity that lost them their man in Brussels not the baying mob.

Ignoring the stupidity and callousness of the individuals who attended, the Party handled it badly after the story broke.

Hogan landed them in it. What was the government they supposed to do, sweep it under the carpet and essentially sh1t all over six months of public health policy during a global pandemic? Give the public at large an excuse to disobey the restrictions? That just wasnt feasible after all the sacrafices that have been made by the entire population for the last six months. Had FG had a majority they might have swept it under the carpet like the Tories did with Domnic Cummings but they dont have a majority and FF/Greens had a say here too.

Hogan could of got out of all this by telling the truth in the first place but because of his arrogance his default position was to tell lie after lie, each one putting a knife in his back until he could no longer stand. It was Hogan who brought himself down by talking himself into it.

Again if Ireland loses the trade commissioner position then that is on Phil Hogan and Fine Gael for recommending him to the position in the first place.

Hawthorn Tree

First Up wrote: »

The other way Ireland works is to engage in local tribal warfare, carry grudges, envy those better off and happily fall off a cliff as long as someone else falls too.

All gloriously on display in this thread.

I see. Go easy on the lemons.

stockshares

Ger Roe wrote: »

Hayes was doing exactly what the banking fed would expect of him, wining and dining, wheeling and dealing. They will have no issue with that. The actual pertinent question is why was he afforded that opportunity? We were told that the days of the Galway tent privilege of political access and influence, were long gone - it seems not.

The Irish people elected their most recent reps on the assurance that it was a new open and transparent era in politics. FF in particular atoned for their cardinal sins and proclaimed that they had been born again in the blinding light of truth and honesty. Leo and Micheal both have a job to do yet in making that point known to their party members and an even bigger job now in (re)convincing the electorate.

This whole mess has been a bad step back to the old days of cute hoors playing at politics and ignoring the rules.

Rumours he was there with Promontoria/Cerberus Hedge Fund employees.

jm08

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Only partially true. The council have many ways to detect leaks and they know where they have major leaks already. The meters do help in detecting smaller household leaks. If the councils got the billions that the IW setup cost, they would have fixed a lot of leaks and treatment plants. Ireland was losing roughly 40% of drinking water through leaks before IW was even thought of, they have not improved that figure in any substantive way and probably made it worse. Their own numbers don't stack up.

Now, in some other news....

This happened all over Ireland.

1 in 50 resulted in a leak that had to be repaired. Thats not bad, bearing in mind that there are millions of leaks everywhere and for whatever reason. That wasn't the issue with Irish Water though (as there were similar issues to making a bags of projects like the Childrens Hospital, Cervical Screening, broadband, etc. The problem with Irish Water is that people didn't want to pay for it (but they will start paying eventually). Similarly with bin charges (which were privatised).

Psychiatric Patrick

RandomViewer wrote: »

Could the reticence in naming all the attendees be that some of the attendees were escorts there to entertain some of the guests?

You leave those lovely women out of this.

I was going to use the correct words but fired it a banning offence. :rolleyes:

stockshares

jm08 wrote: »

1 in 50 resulted in a leak that had to be repaired. Thats not bad, bearing in mind that there are millions of leaks everywhere and for whatever reason. That wasn't the issue with Irish Water though (as there were similar issues to making a bags of projects like the Childrens Hospital, Cervical Screening, broadband, etc. The problem with Irish Water is that people didn't want to pay for it (but they will start paying eventually). Similarly with bin charges (which were privatised).

The problem with IW wasn't that people didn't want to pay for it. It was that it was going to be privatised and the people's money would be going into the pocket of these crooks

People would pay if the service was provided to a high standard. People are aware that it's a vital resource that needs to be managed.

By pulling a stroke it allowed populists to drag the whole project down but if it had have been a genuine project to begin with this would not have happened.

Remember plenty did pay initially but then the underhand dealings were revealed and a mass protest movement started in earnest.

First Up

Muahahaha wrote:

Again if Ireland loses the trade commissioner position then that is on Phil Hogan and Fine Gael for recommending him to the position in the first place.

Hogan became an EU Commissioner in 2014. He was first appointed to Agriculture and did enough in that role to be entrusted with the critical Trade portfolio last year. He was very competent in that too - e.g. the EU/US trade agreement and he was quietly working well with Barnier to keep Ireland's interests to the fore in the Brexit fiasco.

His screw ups in the last few weeks were a massive mistake and he has paid the price. Trying to drag Fine Gael into it is just party politics at its worst.

Psychiatric Patrick

Billgirlylegs wrote: »

IW was set up to provide a gravy train.
They were handed possibly the most significant and valuable resource in the country and the intention was to use it to make a profit. They were preparing to privatise it fully( ie float it on the stock exchange)

FG lackeys were appointed and were paying salary bonuses to one another from the moment they got in the door.

There was Zero attempt to even repair leaks, let alone upgrade the network.
Spare funding allocated to salaries and bonuses.

That is what prompted the protests.
All designed by Phil the master negotiator. He had previous form for messing up local services/property tax.

He got the Euro gravy train gig because he made such a balls of his Ministry that he was a liability to FG/Lab Government who had a massive Dail Majority.
They reckoned he couldn't do any harm over there.

The notion that competence or ability are the criteria for getting the job is laughable.
Previously PFlynn and Charlie McCreevy were despatched to avoid problems for incumbent Government here

What prompted the protests was being asked to put hand in pocket.

I know plenty who went to those marches who didn't a clue or care about what you say was the reason.

Beside the point anyway as it doesn't explain the lack of revolutionary fervour about the Hospital meant to treat sick kids.

Hawthorn Tree

Hey c'mere.

How is the Garda investigation into the Clifden Elite party going?

It shouldn't take too long because there were many Gardai just outside the hotel.

Will we ever see that report or any sanctions?

Ger Roe

stockshares wrote: »

Rumours he was there with Promontoria/Cerberus Hedge Fund employees.

If, so... why would that be a problem for the banks?. I don't think they care who they sell their bad debts to, presumably he was introducing some of their best customers to those who walk in the corridors of power - there lies the real scandal of the event - granting the select few privileged access to the string pullers.

The banks have long shown that they have no moral responsibilities to the little people, our political elite should not be providing them with opportunities to bend influential ears at opportunities that will be off the public record.

Hawthorn Tree

First Up wrote: »

Hogan became an EU Commissioner in 2014. He was first appointed to Agriculture and did enough in that role to be entrusted with the critical Trade portfolio last year. He was very competent in that too - e.g. the EU/US trade agreement and he was quietly working well with Barnier to keep Ireland's interests to the fore in the Brexit fiasco.

His screw ups in the last few weeks were a massive mistake and he has paid the price. Trying to drag Fine Gael into it is just party politics at its worst.

Do you FG boyos take special amnesia pills or how does it work?

Allinall

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Hey c'mere.

How is the Garda investigation into the Clifden Elite party going?

It shouldn't take too long because there were many Gardai just outside the hotel.

Will we ever see that report or any sanctions?

Why would you expect to see a Garda report on their investigations into a private event?

stockshares

Ger Roe wrote: »

If, so... why would that be a problem for the banks?. I don't think they care who they sell their bad debts to, presumably he was introducing some of their best customers to those who walk in the corridors of power - there lies the real scandal of the event - granting the select few privileged access to the string pullers.

The banks have long shown that they have no moral responsibilities to the little people, our political elite should not be providing them with opportunities to bend influential ears at opportunities that will be off the public record.

I'm not saying banks have a problem with it.

I'm saying Brian Hayes lobbying is wrong and attention should be drawn to what these vulture Funds are getting away with.

The Country is being sold out to these Vultures and people like Hayes who enable them are Traitors.

breadmonster

Sawduck wrote: »

Why are people defending him, is Ireland turning into America, where people defend politicians simply because they support that politicalions party?

Its a risk we didn't need to take at this time - theres a recession on the way and that'll make the last one look like a drop in the ocean and i don't feel like picking up the tab this time round maxed out!. Its the job of the government to see through all the weeds and they failed miserably this time they shouldn't be listening to social media mobs and should of buried this story and take the pr hit. Get rid of him later on for all i care, now was not the time.

jm08

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

I believe the Poolbeg incinerator cost a lot more.

Who does this remind you of?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tierney-snub-to-tds-over-probe-into-poolbeg-30348561.html

Is the Poolbeg incinerator disasterous?

jm08

Ger Roe wrote: »

If, so... why would that be a problem for the banks?. I don't think they care who they sell their bad debts to, presumably he was introducing some of their best customers to those who walk in the corridors of power - there lies the real scandal of the event - granting the select few privileged access to the string pullers.

The banks have long shown that they have no moral responsibilities to the little people, our political elite should not be providing them with opportunities to bend influential ears at opportunities that will be off the public record.

According to Kathy Sheridan in the Irish Times, there were only 2 TDs and a few senators (5 or 6). The rest were retired politicians or want to be politicians. There was nothing elite about that outing.

ChikiChiki

Its clearcut. He showed no respect for the rules and regulations currently in place. How is this guy expected to be a lawmaker.

Fantastic display of leadership and upholding of standards in public office by Von Der Leyen.

After years of flouting Hogan met his match. It realy is that clear cut and I hope to see such strong Governance here in this country some day.

You can be damn sure we would be a lot better off for it.

Hawthorn Tree

jm08 wrote: »

Is the Poolbeg incinerator disasterous?

Yes. Massive overspend when Tierney was in charge. It mirrored what he subsequently did in IW. Why do you think he was brought in my the Public Accounts committee??? He refused to attend the 2nd time. He had spent 96,000,000 on Poolbeg before he moved to IW and the construction hadn't even started.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1203/356693-dublin-poolbeg-incinerator/

An audit of the Poolbeg Incinerator project has criticised Dublin City Council for spiralling costs now totalling over €80 million.

The report from the local government auditor found that project management was "weak" and "not adequate".

City Manager John Tierney has apologised for the shortcomings.

However, councillors called for an end to the project and criticised council management for the mismanagement of public funds.

The review of expenditure by the local government auditor report pointed out that consultants costs spiralled from original contract for €8m to over €24m.

This included public relations costs of €3m.

It found that the consultant’s contract breached procedure guidelines by not being reviewed in 2005 and there was a lack of financial records available and no minutes of meetings of the project management board.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/tierney-snub-to-tds-over-probe-into-poolbeg-30348561.html

EU Commission officials last month confirmed that the project did not involve a breach of state aid rules, however, the investigation into the issue of procurement is still ongoing.

The Committee had hoped Mr Tierney would appear following the conclusion of the first investigation, however, he has maintained that his position has not changed. He is understood to have given no firm commitment as to whether he will attend in the future.

The CEO of Irish Water spent seven years as Dublin City Manager and played a key role in the decision making process surrounding project. TDs are concerned about revelations that there are no records of minutes from crucial project meetings involving senior Dublin City Council officials, as well as the fact that €30m was spent on consultancy.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/now-irish-water-chief-faces-pac-over-96m-poolbeg-bill-29933890.html

IRISH Water chief John Tierney faces a fresh showdown with the high-powered Dail Public Accounts Committee (PAC), which is now pressing to question him on the €96m costs of the stalled Poolbeg incinerator.

Mr Tierney - who appeared in front of PAC just last week to answer questions about the €50m spend on consultancy by Irish Water - served as Dublin City Council manager for more than seven years and had a direct input into decisions regarding the controversial incinerator plan.

Some €32m has been spent on consultancy services, which represents a third of the overall spend on the Poolbeg project so far.

The Irish Independent has learnt that Mr Tierney's successor as Dublin City Manager, Owen Keegan, has banned any further spending on consultancy until the results of an EU investigation into complaints against the Poolbeg project are received.

They appointed the wrong man to IW and history repeated itself.

Ger Roe

jm08 wrote: »

According to Kathy Sheridan in the Irish Times, there were only 2 TDs and a few senators (5 or 6). The rest were retired politicians or want to be politicians. There was nothing elite about that outing.

So, eight people of current influence and others of previous (but still connected) influence and some of potential future influence.

If I was a mover and shaker, looking to feather my nest, I'd have a go at that gathering.

First Up

Hawthorn Tree wrote:

Do you FG boyos take special amnesia pills or how does it work?

Did I leave something out?

Psychiatric Patrick

First Up wrote: »

Did I leave something out?

Can't you remember?

stockshares

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

What prompted the protests was being asked to put hand in pocket.

I know plenty who went to those marches who didn't a clue or care about what you say was the reason.

Beside the point anyway as it doesn't explain the lack of revolutionary fervour about the Hospital meant to treat sick kids.

You have a point about the type that doesn't want to pay for anything but there are many that do.

The hospital or lack of is a stain on the country but if you look at all the scandals since the state was founded children of old people don't matter here. Look at Temple Street and tell me they care

There is no money in young or old for them. They see it like this:
Why part with money now for a children's hospital only for others to get a return on it.

Why look after the old. Their on the way out and there's nothing in that for me

They want to profit now.

First Up

Psychiatric Patrick wrote:

Can't you remember?

I'm trying to remember what Fine Gael can be blamed for but no, nothing is coming to me.