PHIL HOGAN NEEDS TO RESIGN.

Tony EH

Zebra3 wrote: »

Fair to say many of us on here enjoy accountability.

Still plenty that don't though.

That depends on which party needs to be shilled for though, doesn't it.

I absolutely guarantee you, if it was a member of a different party involved here, the song and dance from the usual flag wavers would be very different.

Very different indeed.

First Up

McMurphy wrote:

In a thread about Phil Hogan, all people want to do is to deflect and talk about Phil Hogan.

It deserved to be about a bit more but if you only see a dead horse to flog - off you go.

tom1ie

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Who cares ? He didn't kill jack shight, so why harp on about it? I would be more annoyed at Gardai giving him a pass. It is highly likely the story is heresay anyway, paper never refused ink.

Everyone does crap from time to time.

I am beginning to think there is a lot more going on here than meets the eye.

Who would you recommend to replace him, granted that I know that you have set the bar at driving etiquette? Crikey.

Whoever replaces him might not even be trade commissioner though.

Psychiatric Patrick

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Lightly? He lost his job for using his phone while driving and breaking some regulations.

https://twitter.com/Care2much18/status/1298801956069216256?s=19
Interesting thread there about high profile breaches of regulations elsewhere and the lack of consequences, because, in large, people understand mistakes will be made.

It's a fairly bizarre over-reaction, imo, even if the dinner should never have happened.

Would you be dismissing the fact he broke the law if he had killed someone you care about while doing it?

Lost his job? I think you need to educate yourself about politicians and pensions.

Yes, he got off lightly that he only lost his job.

Jizique

1641 wrote: »

This is the hardest bit to understand. Why did the Gov. go so far out on a limb that would embarass and irritate the EU Commission ? And at this time ?

I get the short term gain of riding the populist wave but it makes their job regarding Brexit, trade and euro-tax consolidation so much more difficult. They won't get any thanks if those go badly - and people will have quickly forgotten Hogan.

Panic I suspect - Martin was under serious pressure over the poor start, the terrible messaging around the restrictions last week, and with Calleary (and before that Cowen) falling on their swords, there was a need to have a victim from the other side to even the score.
Remember that there was also a perception that Leo was giving him a runaround, announcing policy and continuing to act as Taoiseach in many respects.
It could well come back to bite us, you don't need to be a fan of Hogan to feel that it was not well thought out.

Psychiatric Patrick

tom1ie wrote: »

How are we in the same position!!!
So the trade commissioner for Europe, an Irishman, who had massive influence on trade deals and negotiations has been forced out by his fellow countrymen, with the trade portfolio most likely going to the french.
Not only that we have completely pissed off the Eu by making make the decision to force hogan (I agree he is a complete ass hole) to resign.
But yeah we are in the same position?!

Yes we are.

How many times do you people have to be told - Commissioner work for the EU, not they country they come from?

How many times do you people have to be told - Hogan wis a selfish person, and only acts in hs own interest?

So it makes no difference who has the job

Sorolla

1641 wrote: »

This is the hardest bit to understand. Why did the Gov. go so far out on a limb that would embarass and irritate the EU Commission ? And at this time ?

I get the short term gain of riding the populist wave but it makes their job regarding Brexit, trade and euro-tax consolidation so much more difficult. They won't get any thanks if those go badly - and people will have quickly forgotten Hogan.

It makes no sense - when Uschi was looking for candidates for the new commission she requested each member state to nominate a male and female candidate.

Ireland refused to follow this guideline (oh the irony)

Leo and the FG government with the support of FF nominated only one candidate - Phil

The reasoning was that we need a skilled negotiator in view of the upcoming Brexit

What has changed in the last 2 weeks?

One thing is sure Uschi has lost any grá she had for Éire

Psychiatric Patrick

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Who cares ? He didn't kill jack shight, so why harp on about it? I would be more annoyed at Gardai giving him a pass. It is highly likely the story is heresay anyway, paper never refused ink.

Everyone does crap from time to time.

I am beginning to think there is a lot more going on here than meets the eye.

Who would you recommend to replace him, granted that I know that you have set the bar at driving etiquette? Crikey.

Plenty of us care.

We've mentioned it loads times.

Seems to difficult for you follow though..

McMurphy

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Who cares ? He didn't kill jack shight, so why harp on about it? I would be more annoyed at Gardai giving him a pass. It is highly likely the story is heresay anyway, paper never refused ink.

Everyone does crap from time to time.

I am beginning to think there is a lot more going on here than meets the eye.

Who would you recommend to replace him, granted that I know that you have set the bar at driving etiquette? Crikey.

Hang on, are you basically suggesting that the part where the guards stopped Hogan for answering the phone to his ear, and cautioned him is just "hearsay"?

Even when Phil regales us with what happened (skip to 10.00 mins in)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pon2Z4mwF-A

Maybe Phil was also on the buckfast at the time or off his face on shrooms, and just hallucinated the whole thing....

irishproduce

Attention now turns to who will be sent forward as commissioner from Ireland.
It's unlikely to be Coveney because he is far too valuable and is required here during Brexit stuff.
Would we put forward one of the women available because they are expendable? Or is the job much too significant and important to treat it like that?
I just have visions of us advertising our progressive credentials and equality stuff by sending a woman forward but I'd feel it would be because the chosen person is expendable.
The sheer fact Coveney would be retained here would be a serious compliment to him.

Dammo

tom1ie wrote: »

Grand.
So is Ireland in a better or worse position for negotiating future trade deals since hogan was forced to resign?

My point was that there was none of this angst about Ireland’s position regarding the trade portfolio when hogan was looking to get the job at WTO. Why should there be now? Why are we now in such a perilous position because Hogan was forced to resign rather than waltz off to a job he’d prefer?

Psychiatric Patrick

First Up wrote: »

So seeing him punished is your only interest in the topic?

No. Go through my posts and you will see my interests on display.

tom1ie

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Yes we are.

How many times do you people have to be told - Commissioner work for the EU, not they country they come from?

How many times do you people have to be told - Hogan wis a selfish person, and only acts in hs own interest?

So it makes no difference who has the job

You people?
What group of “you people” do I belong to pray tell!
An Irish trade commissioner would be better than a Greek/french/polish/whatever commissioner as you know they would be making sure nothing detrimental would happen to the future outlook of their native country As they would have family ties, would end up living here etc.
So don’t be so naive to think this wouldn’t happen.

Psychiatric Patrick

Sorolla wrote: »

It makes no sense - when Uschi was looking for candidates for the new commission she requested each member state to nominate a male and female candidate.

Ireland refused to follow this guideline (oh the irony)

Leo and the FG government with the support of FF nominated only one candidate - Phil

The reasoning was that we need a skilled negotiator in view of the upcoming Brexit

What has changed in the last 2 weeks?

One thing is sure Uschi has lost any grá she had for Éire

You need read up a bit on this topics.

You don't know your dad's story at all

jm08

Jizique wrote: »

Really interesting to hear Clare Daly, who is not a supporter of Hogan by any means, saying that she is not that surprised that Hogan could have been confused given the testing system that was put in place for EU staff (including parliamentary members) to allow them to travel to their home countries and back without having to quarantine.

Yes I heard her saying that. She said that they just had a testing regime for MEPs that allowed them to move around freely. She said a lot more MEPs are coming back to Brussels now. No wonder Hogan thought he was OK because he got tested.


She also said that for Ireland to retain the Trade Portfolio it would need to be either Leo or Simon Coveney.


I see elsewhere that the French are pushing the boat out for the Trade Portfolio.

Sorolla

irishproduce wrote: »

Attention now turns to who will be sent forward as commissioner from Ireland.
It's unlikely to be Coveney because he is far too valuable and is required here during Brexit stuff.
Would we put forward one of the women available because they are expendable? Or is the job much too significant and important to treat it like that?
I just have visions of us advertising our progressive credentials and equality stuff by sending a woman forward but I'd feel it would be because the chosen person is expendable.
The sheer fact Coveney would be retained here would be a serious compliment to him.

It will be a female.
The best candid would be Mairead mc Guinness - she is highly respected and well liked in Brussels.

Uschi would jump at the chance to welcome Mairead to the college.

Expect the EU to dictate to the Irish government who they have to present as candidates

Leo is toast and Uschi will not entertain his candidacy

tom1ie

Dammo wrote: »

My point was that there was none of this angst about Ireland’s position regarding the trade portfolio when hogan was looking to get the job at WTO. Why should there be now? Why are we now in such a perilous position because Hogan was forced to resign rather than waltz off to a job he’d prefer?

That’s a valid point tbf, but I think we have majorly pissed off Ursula by forcing her into a decision.

1641

Dammo wrote: »

My point was that there was none of this angst about Ireland’s position regarding the trade portfolio when hogan was looking to get the job at WTO. Why should there be now? Why are we now in such a perilous position because Hogan was forced to resign rather than waltz off to a job he’d prefer?

I think Hogan seriously damaged himself by going for that job. He pissed off V Dr Leyen and he pissed off the Irish government. I suspect he would have been given more cover to weather this crisis otherwise.
As regards him going for the OECD position - I was glad at the time he wasn't supported. For the same reason as now - to keep the Trade post ( not for any gra for Phil). But it is gone now.

jm08

Dammo wrote: »

My point was that there was none of this angst about Ireland’s position regarding the trade portfolio when hogan was looking to get the job at WTO. Why should there be now? Why are we now in such a perilous position because Hogan was forced to resign rather than waltz off to a job he’d prefer?

Actually, the reason why he didn't go was because he was wanted in the EU.

The Commissioner was under pressure in Brussels to state his intentions amid fears his departure from the Brussels executive would leave a huge gap in ongoing efforts to craft free trade deals. He had been stood down from sensitive EU trade negotiations until the issue was resolved.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/phil-hogan-quits-race-for-top-world-trade-job-citing-pressure-of-eu-work-in-brussels-39324016.html

Psychiatric Patrick

tom1ie wrote: »

You people?
What group of “you people” do I belong to pray tell!
An Irish trade commissioner would be better than a Greek/french/polish/whatever commissioner as you know they would be making sure nothing detrimental would happen to the future outlook of their native country As they would have family ties, would end up living here etc.
So don’t be so naive to think this wouldn’t happen.

The group who cannot tell fiction from reality.

Explain to us how an Irish Trade Commissioner is better one from any other country. I will need real example.

Then explain how, even if an Irish trade commisonor did mean good things for Ireland, that Hogan could be this comsissioner.

Zebra3

tom1ie wrote: »

Not only that we have completely pissed off the Eu

Yeah, from Lisbon to Helsinki, it's trembling at the moment.

Might even bring about a break up.

ninebeanrows

With mature reflection we will look back at this moment in our history with deep regret.

We either lose one of our most able national representatives...Simon Coveney or Leo Varadkar or lose the trade brief in the most important negotiations in our recent history...

Dammo

tom1ie wrote: »

That’s a valid point tbf, but I think we have majorly pissed off Ursula by forcing her into a decision.

Hopefully not. I’m optimistic that we can get over this without too much fallout in Europe.

I have everything crossed that, in the long run, some good will come of this in terms of redressing the imbalance between self-interest and the good of the citizenry amongst our elected officials and those we send to represent us in Europe. Maybe I’m naive.

Psychiatric Patrick

Sorolla wrote: »

It will be a female.
The best candid would be Mairead mc Guinness - she is highly respected and well liked in Brussels.

Uschi would jump at the chance to welcome Mairead to the college.

Expect the EU to dictate to the Irish government who they have to present as candidates

Leo is toast and Uschi will not entertain his candidacy

Your dad not out of the job a day and you already have a new favourite

You dirty dog

eeepaulo

I just came along to dance on that pug nosed piggy eyed potato headed liars (career) grave. bla bla represented ireland my arse

1641

eeepaulo wrote: »

I just came along to dance on that pug nosed piggy eyed potato headed liars (career) grave. bla bla represented ireland my arse

Well, with the benefit of that well considered insight it is time to say goodnight.

eeepaulo

1641 wrote: »

Well, with the benefit of that well considered insight it is time to say goodnight.

and it's goodnight from him

Plumbthedepths

I'm enjoying the amnesia of many here , Hogan wanted out some months back to go for the WTO job. Was he worried about the loss of the Trade gig to Ireland then? Was he f**k yet the amount of posters claiming it's a huge loss to Ireland. Seriously cop the feck on.
He was told by his boss it was not appropriate for a sitting Commissioner to effectively be absent canvassing for another job. Those that backed Hogan for the trade Commission job, wonder how they felt about Hogan's disregard for the support.

jm08

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

The group who tell fiction from reality.

Explain to us how an Irish Trade Commissioner is better one from any other country. I will need real example.

Then explain how, even if an Irish trade commisonor did mean good things for Ireland, that Hogan could be this comsissioner.

An Irish Commissioner would be better for us because their trade philosophy is the same as Irelands (open trading) which is predominantly how the Northern Europeans think. The French (along with southern europeans) are far more protectionist which will be bad news for Ireland if France get the portfolio.


All reports of Hogan was that he was really on top of his brief. There is a video of a conference in Washington where he is a keynote speaker and he is very good in the Q&A part.


https://www.csis.org/events/refreshing-transatlantic-trade-relations


Its interesting (about 30 min in), he is asked what his brief is and he says that Ursula has asked him to reset the relationship between the EU-US.

wrangler

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'm enjoying the amnesia of many here , Hogan wanted out some months back to go for the WTO job. Was he worried about the loss of the Trade gig to Ireland then? Was he f**k yet the amount of posters claiming it's a huge loss to Ireland. Seriously cop the feck on.
He was told by his boss it was not appropriate for a sitting Commissioner to effectively be absent canvassing for another job. Those that backed Hogan for the trade Commission job, wonder how they felt about Hogan's disregard for the support.

He has had a great run, was he ever not elected, he's around nearly 40 years,.. elected first at 22.
The dice always rolled right for him, he always came up smelling of roses even when he made a stupid move,
Ireland's the joke of Europe ..........again

but I've a feeling the big Phil is not finished