PHIL HOGAN NEEDS TO RESIGN.

wrangler

jm08 wrote: »

According to Tony Connolly, they think everyone is bonkers in Ireland to throw away such a powerful portfolio.


https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2020/0827/1161558-hogan-connelly-analysis/





Hogan was pressurised to withdraw from WTO job.





And his role in Brexit.




I wonder will he end up working for the Brits? They hired former Australian PM, Tony Abbott as a Trade Ambassador last week. Probably he has some sort of clause in his contract that will prevent him from working for anyone else for a while.



https://www.rte.ie/news/analysis-and-comment/2020/0827/1161558-hogan-connelly-analysis/

Yep, We're the joke of Europe now

jm08

Zebra3 wrote: »

Nonsense.

It's pigs at the trough stuff.

Nobody works in one job for life any more and we're always being told our politicians are so talented so there's absolutely no need for them to be paid a pension before the regular retirement age.

I left my job after 15 years and I didn't get a pension for the rest of my life.

You know what I did? I got out there and got another one.

Yea, I suppose they will always get a job lobbying for some vulture fund or banking corporation?


When you left your job, was your next job very different or were you starting at the ground up?

ExMachina1000

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No. We are fools, and the whole of Europe must be laughing at us now. First our CEO of Bord Failte, then our Minister for Agriculture, then the European Trade Commissioner - all in the space of 3 weeks.

Some might laugh while more are probably amazed at how public officials and high profile individuals are being held to account in Ireland.

They are more than likely used to similar officials in their countries being untouchable.

They might feel that in Ireland the rich and powerful don't get a free pass.

In reality us Irish know that this is just a blip. We know that really the place is rotten with cronyism.

1641

Muahahaha wrote: »

You're missing something here, the government was put in a complete Catch 22 situation by Phils lies. Had they backed him and we later need a second national lockdown this winter loads of people would just ignore it and the virus would spread even further.

If they expressed confidence in Hogan then they would have completely undermined 6 months of public health policy in doing so. Hogans actions tied their hands, the alternative of letting him off the hook would have been detrimental to public health.

No, I am not missing that point - I just disagree.


Hogan was not a government minister and, as Commissioner, he was not answerable to the government. If they had so chosen, they could have issued a rather bland statement stating their abhorrence about the whole incident, blah, blah, blah. Instead they heaped pressure on him publicly regarding his position and all but blatantly said they had no confidence in him. This put pressure on Der Leyen and embarrassed the Commission. The Commission had to act.
Calleary was part of the Government and, as such, responsible for the public healthguidelines/regulations. Hogan was not. And, as we now know, there was a source of confusion as Brussels ahve there own arrangements for travelling officials.(I am not saying this excuses all Hogan's actions, btw.)

The Government could have condemned the incident, distanced themselves from Hogan ("not our brief") and not ended up losing a very important commissionership at a vital time.
It is not about saving Hogan personally - it is about saving the post.

McMurphy

wrangler wrote: »

Yep, We're the joke of Europe now

We would have been the joke of Europe had we of turned a blind eye to "Phil's Irish Tour 2020" after his nine statements each one a correction of the previous one.

The lie was bigger than the crime apparently, Phil Hogan did this to himself, stop trying to imply we're a nation of gombeens because of the behaviour and lack of accountability of one gombeen.

1641

McMurphy wrote: »

We would have been the joke of Europe had we of turned a blind eye to "Phil's Irish Tour 2020" after his nine statements each one a correction of the previous one.

The lie was bigger than the crime apparently, Phil Hogan did this to himself, stop trying to imply we're a nation of gombeens because of the behaviour and lack of accountability of one gombeen.

No we showed great maturity. We threw away the coveted Trade Commissionership at a vital time so that we could personally punish Phil for his misdemeanours by making him retire on a grand pension.



That'll larn em.

ExMachina1000

1641 wrote: »

No we showed great maturity. We threw away the coveted Trade Commissionership at a vital time so that we could personally punish Phil for his misdemeanours by making him retire on a grand pension.



That'll larn em.

How much is the pension?

1641

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

How much is the pension?

This is The Examiner report:




https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40039076.html

Muahahaha

1641 wrote: »

No, I am not missing that point - I just disagree.


Hogan was not a government minister and, as Commissioner, he was not answerable to the government. If they had so chosen, they could have issued a rather bland statement stating their abhorrence about the whole incident, blah, blah, blah. Instead they heaped pressure on him publicly regarding his position and all but blatantly said they had no confidence in him. This put pressure on Der Leyen and embarrassed the Commission. The Commission had to act.
Calleary was part of the Government and, as such, responsible for the public healthguidelines/regulations. Hogan was not. And, as we now know, there was a source of confusion as Brussels ahve there own arrangements for travelling officials.(I am not saying this excuses all Hogan's actions, btw.)

The Government could have condemned the incident, distanced themselves from Hogan ("not our brief") and not ended up losing a very important commissionership at a vital time.
It is not about saving Hogan personally - it is about saving the post.

The Govts problem is that just wouldnt have washed with a tired and weary public who had spent the last 6 months making sacrifices, not seeing parents, cancelling weddings, missing funerals of loved ones etc the list goes on and on about the hardships endured. The public at large does not separate his EU role from him being a former politician here. Rightly or wrongly he is seen as a member of Fine Gael and a member of a governemnt party.

Thats just the real politik of the situation and had the Govt. backed him then implementing a second lockdown would have been impossible when the Govt allowed him to drive a horse and coaches through their own public health polices during a pandemic. They would have lost all credibility and it would have called into question the confidence of the government itself. Had they backed him we would still be talking about Hogan this November when a second national lockdown comes, people would literally be refusing to obey the restrictions 'because Hogan didn't and the government let him get away with it'.

To me the Govt. did the right thing when put in a no win situation by Hogan himself. Over the water the Tories didnt and allowed Domnic Cummings to remain in situ with his eye testing excuses which was an absolute farce. Surveys of the British public later showed many said they ignored the restrictions after Cummings had gotten away with what he did.

ExMachina1000

1641 wrote: »

This is The Examiner report:




https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40039076.html

I don't see the problem with that

McMurphy

1641 wrote: »

No we showed great maturity. We threw away the coveted Trade Commissionership at a vital time so that we could personally punish Phil for his misdemeanours by making him retire on a grand pension.



That'll larn em.

"We" threw away nothing, Phil Hogan is responsible for his own actions, not the the Irish people, or the Irish government.

I believe you are complaining that Phil's Irish Tour was covered by the media, hence catching Phil in the spotlight where it was then hard to turn it off again.

You want to be angry at someone for Phil falling on his own sword? Well then you'll prob find Phil on the golf course some day next week.

elperello

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

I don't see the problem with that

I don't think there is one.

It's just factual explaining the rules for all Commissioners.

Quite generous but all above board.

There is no special deal for Hogan.

1641

Muahahaha wrote: »

..............

Thats just the real politik of the situation and had the Govt. backed him .....................

. Over the water the Tories didnt and allowed Domnic Cummings to remain in situ with his eye testing excuses which was an absolute farce. Surveys of the British public later showed many said they ignored the restrictions after Cummings had gotten away with what he did.

The Gov did not have to back him. That would have been wrong. They could have expressed their abhorrence with the whole thing and the inconsistencies with public health guidance. They could even have expressed "their disappointment" with the Commissioner, but noting that he is answerable to Europe. Quite rightly they noted that Woulfe, as a Supreme Court judge, is outside their remit. They couldhave done the same with Hogan.
Instead they publicly questioned their confidence in him and his position in Europe. This was a short term populist position. They should have kept their eyes on the big stuff down the road.



Cummings is very different. He is very publicly at the heart of Government and known to be Johnson's right hand man (at least). He was actively involved in drawing up the regulations. I think most of the public would have little difficulty seeing the difference.

1641

McMurphy wrote: »

"We" threw away nothing, .

We threw away the Trade Commissionership at a vital time so that we could punish an individual for foolish actions and arrogant response to questioning.That is serious but not "high crimes and misdemaenours".



Losing the job punishes Hogan.


Losing the Trade Commissionership punishes ourselves.

Zebra3

jm08 wrote: »

Yea, I suppose they will always get a job lobbying for some vulture fund or banking corporation?


When you left your job, was your next job very different or were you starting at the ground up?

What my next job was is irrelevant.

But I had to work and couldn't just sit on my hole taking six figures a year from the taxpayer.

Gravy train wasn't set up for me.

Worse still I have to pay for those on it.

walshb

1641 wrote: »

No, I am not missing that point - I just disagree.


Hogan was not a government minister and, as Commissioner, he was not answerable to the government. If they had so chosen, they could have issued a rather bland statement stating their abhorrence about the whole incident, blah, blah, blah. Instead they heaped pressure on him publicly regarding his position and all but blatantly said they had no confidence in him. This put pressure on Der Leyen and embarrassed the Commission. The Commission had to act.
Calleary was part of the Government and, as such, responsible for the public healthguidelines/regulations. Hogan was not. And, as we now know, there was a source of confusion as Brussels ahve there own arrangements for travelling officials.(I am not saying this excuses all Hogan's actions, btw.)

The Government could have condemned the incident, distanced themselves from Hogan ("not our brief") and not ended up losing a very important commissionership at a vital time.
It is not about saving Hogan personally - it is about saving the post.

Spot on

They made a balls of it, but no surprise.....no guts/leadership....bowing to the mob...

jm08

Zebra3 wrote: »

What my next job was is irrelevant.

But I had to work and couldn't just sit on my hole taking six figures a year from the taxpayer.

Gravy train wasn't set up for me.

Worse still I have to pay for those on it.

Very few are on such 'a gravy train' very early in their careers. Hogan is 60. What age were you when you changed career?
If he had to last his full term with the Commission he would have been at normal retirement age anyway.

Zebra3

jm08 wrote: »

Very few are on such 'a gravy train' very early in their careers. Hogan is 60. What age were you when you changed career?
If he had to last his full term with the Commission he would have been at normal retirement age anyway.

Again, I'm not talking specifically about Hogan.

But the constant paying out of pensions early to politicians.

It's a form of theft from other taxpayers.

jm08

Zebra3 wrote: »

Again, I'm not talking specifically about Hogan.

But the constant paying out of pensions early to politicians.

It's a form of theft from other taxpayers.

But according to that article, Hogan didn't claim his Dail pension.

As such the former commissioner is entitled to both a TD’s and a ministerial pension. When Mr Hogan first joined the European Commission he said he would waive his entitlement to both Oireachtas payments, worth a combined €61,000 each year.
Dáil records show that in the years immediately following Mr Hogan indeed claimed no pension payments. Such records are now anonymised by the Oireachtas citing the advent of the General Data Protection Regulation.

According to that article as well, his EU Commissioner pension would not be payable until he was 60 (which he was in July).

Zebra3

jm08 wrote: »

But according to that article, Hogan didn't claim his Dail pension.

How many times do I have to repeat myself? :rolleyes:

Cyrus

Zebra3 wrote: »

What my next job was is irrelevant.

But I had to work and couldn't just sit on my hole taking six figures a year from the taxpayer.

Gravy train wasn't set up for me.

Worse still I have to pay for those on it.

If you had a pension in your previous job it’s there for you, you can start drawing on it at 50 if you want .

Part of public servants remuneration is a generous pension as the rate of pay is generally poor v private sector.

Get yourself elected if you think it’s so great

jm08

Zebra3 wrote: »

How many times do I have to repeat myself? :rolleyes:

Repeat what?

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

Peregrinus wrote: »

No, they can't. They didn't appoint him. He doesn't represent them. His official connection with the Irish state is zero - none at all.

Unelected and unsackable.

Aren't we all glad to be part of such a glorious democratic union!

And some of you laugh at the Brits for wanting out of this fcuking sh!tshow. :rolleyes:

Psychiatric Patrick

1641 wrote: »

We threw away the Trade Commissionership at a vital time so that we could punish an individual for foolish actions and arrogant response to questioning.That is serious but not "high crimes and misdemaenours".



Losing the job punishes Hogan.


Losing the Trade Commissionership punishes ourselves.

I don't feel punish. I feel okay.

Psychiatric Patrick

breadmonster wrote: »

Billions of euros lost in investment hard to replace.

What billions and investment?

Psychiatric Patrick

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Whatever about internal politics but cheering his departure is clapping because your teammate got a red card.

Hogan isn’t on my team.

My team doesn’t drive while using a mobile phone, sneer at the Irish people or spit in the face of decent people

Spanish Eyes

Media frenzy led to this.

He was a total idiot anyway, no getting away from his arrogant prickery.

Psychiatric Patrick

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

There you go.

https://www.facebook.com/45441411157/posts/10157724724466158/

Hang on.

Maybe misunderstanding they but is O’Leary saying that Hogan was also keeping secrets from Boss Lady?

Was he meeting people he doesn’t want to tell her about?

Psychiatric Patrick

Deleted User wrote: »

the mad thing is I don't like Phil Hogan at all. I think he is arrogant, a trait I hate, I think he is a slime ball and perceives himself as above us all. HOWEVER I do not agree with the witch hunt we witnessed last week, the media hunt, the frenzy, the drooling and foaming outrage, the "we've all suffered brigade".............we are seeing this over and over and over again. Our answer to everything is to fire people or whinge and whine about it on Twitter, News Apps, Liveline, Boards.........but would any of be any different if we were in his shoes? I would imagine when you are that high up in the EU you probably think you have a bit of immunity. I know I would ...........because unlike many posters here I am being honest.

I despise double standards and I think most of us are being hugely dishonest about our motives. Begrudgery is at the root of an awful lot of this and its a particularly Irish trait. We are deeply insecure as a people.

So I don't love Phil Hogan at all, in fact I dislike him. (However I also believe we should all be paying for our water in this country. I have kids in Vancouver and London and they both pay water charges).

I think we were mad to hunted Phil Hogan out of office, people are literally foaming at the mouth at their keyboards in this country...........trainee solicitors on Boards calling people "fat turds"?

So I really will leave this time and leave ye to it. Cheers :)

I was in no frenzy and don't know how you witnessed drooling via this site.

I also think water needs to be paid for - I'm embarrassed by the protests (which did make us an actual laughing stock abroad). I mortified that Irish people would cause an upheaval about that but are "meh" about the state of the Kid's hospital

I also dislike arrogant slime balls who think are above others. I had to deal with one today that is a sibling. If that is all Hogan was I wouldn't care.

However there is a dangerous virus on the loose and the restrictions are designed to contain.

Hogan disregarded them all. All the guests and management at that hotel put peoples lives at risk.

Even if there was no chance of spreading the virus they gave the finger to everyone in the country who obeyed the rules.

I have two nieces and friends who are nurses who are worn out from helping people.
My mother couldn't meet her sisters or her grandchildren for months.

Even single guest, the management of the establishments involved and the knackers processing about mask should be punished.

And to top it off Hogan was driving around the country gabbing on his phone.

Something had to be done.

Cyrus

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

I was in no frenzy and don't know how you witnessed drooling via this site.

I also think water needs to be paid for - I'm embarrassed by the protests (which did make us an actual laughing stock abroad). I mortified that Irish people would cause an upheaval about that but are "meh" about the state of the Kid's hospital

I also dislike arrogant slime balls who think are above others. I had to deal with one today that is a sibling. If that is all Hogan was I wouldn't care.

However there is a dangerous virus on the loose and the restrictions are designed to contain.

Hogan disregarded them all. All the guests and management at that hotel put peoples lives at risk.

Even if there was no chance of spreading the virus they gave the finger to everyone in the country who obeyed the rules.

I have two nieces and friends who are nurses who are worn out from helping people.
My mother couldn't meet her sisters or her grandchildren for months.

Even single guest, the management of the establishments involved and the knackers processing about mask should be punished.

And to top it off Hogan was driving around the country gabbing on his phone.

Something had to be done.

These nieces that are nurses that are worn out, I presume it’s in a personal capacity as there are very few COVID patients in hospitals .