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PHIL HOGAN NEEDS TO RESIGN.

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    #4202
    Hawthorn Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Hawthorn Tree


    The Clifden Elite party in which the great and the good completely ignored the latest Covid restrictions will only encourage the public to ignore restrictions.
    The public will have lost confidence in the government's credibility in the wake of that 2 day event. The anger from people who have lost loved ones or lost their livelihoods will linger for a long time.


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    #4203
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭stockshares


    wrangler wrote: »
    I don't have any opinion any more as to whether or not to obey the guidelines.
    There's thousands acting the brat and not obeying as evidenced by the numbers being infected so guidelines are looking fairly pointless now.

    I'm starting to think that way myself, have you seen the videos from Killarney ?


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    #4204
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,167 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    stockshares wrote: »
    I'm starting to think that way myself, have you seen the videos from Killarney ?

    No, what's going on.

    Feck. just after finding it


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    #4205
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭stockshares


    wrangler wrote: »
    No, what's going on

    Look on Twitter. Big street party last night

    One person dead.

    Not sure of the reason yet or whether the two are related


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    #4206
    crossman47
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭crossman47


    Hawthorn Tree wrote: »
    The Clifden Elite party in which the great and the good completely ignored the latest restrictions will only encourage the public to ignore restrictions. The public will have lost confidence in the government's credibility in the wake of that 2 day event.

    It wasn't organised by the government. In fact they were horrified by it.


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    #4207
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭stockshares


    crossman47 wrote: »
    It wasn't organised by the government. In fact they were horrified by it.

    They weren't horrified by it. They allowed it. They were horrified people found out about it.


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    #4208
    crossman47
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭crossman47


    stockshares wrote: »
    They weren't horrified by it. They allowed it. They were horrified people found out about it.

    What do you mean "allowed it"? Do you think they were asked if it could go ahead?


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    #4209
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,121 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    I thought we went over this before.

    My impression is that the Government had no role in organising the Clifden event.

    Some members of the Government were aware that it was taking place but I have seen no evidence that they knew the details.


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    #4210
    Hawthorn Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Hawthorn Tree


    elperello wrote: »
    I thought we went over this before.

    My impression is that the Government had no role in organising the Clifden event.

    Some members of the Government were aware that it was taking place but I have seen no evidence that they knew the details.

    Do you believe Leo/MM did not know where Dara and Phil were? I believe MM sponsored a golf prize.


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    #4211
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭stockshares


    elperello wrote: »
    I thought we went over this before.

    My impression is that the Government had no role in organising the Clifden event.

    Some members of the Government were aware that it was taking place but I have seen no evidence that they knew the details.

    Ok allowed is the wrong word.

    They knew it was to take place and ignored it.


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    #4212
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Hawthorn Tree wrote: »
    Do you believe Leo/MM did not know where Dara and Phil were? I believe MM sponsored a golf prize.

    So MM's head now?


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    #4213
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,121 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Hawthorn Tree wrote: »
    Do you believe Leo/MM did not know where Dara and Phil were? I believe MM sponsored a golf prize.

    I don't know if they knew where DC and PH were.

    I did hear LV saying that he didn't know about the event and that if an invite had come into his office it would have been turned down on his behalf because his diary had him elsewhere.

    Fianna Fail sponsored an €80 prize not MM.


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    #4214
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,121 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    stockshares wrote: »
    Ok allowed is the wrong word.

    They knew it was to take place and ignored it.

    I have no wish to appear awkward but is there any evidence that they knew what was to take place and ignored it?


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    #4215
    Hawthorn Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Hawthorn Tree


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    So MM's head now?

    No. Not what I asked. No answers either. Believe was the key word.


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    #4216
    Hawthorn Tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 544 ✭✭✭Hawthorn Tree


    elperello wrote: »
    I don't know if they knew where DC and PH were.

    I did hear LV saying that he didn't know about the event and that if an invite had come into his office it would have been turned down on his behalf because his diary had him elsewhere.

    Fianna Fail sponsored an €80 prize not MM.

    Enda and Dick Spring knew it was on. :rolleyes:


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    #4217
    crossman47
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭crossman47


    Hawthorn Tree wrote: »
    Enda and Dick Spring knew it was on. :rolleyes:

    Yes. They play golf regularly. Leo and MM do not.


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    #4218
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭stockshares


    elperello wrote: »
    I have no wish to appear awkward but is there any evidence that they knew what was to take place and ignored it?

    Michael McGrath knew. He received an invitation by email and said so.

    He said that email went around too.


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    #4219
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,121 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    Hawthorn Tree wrote: »
    Enda and Dick Spring knew it was on. :rolleyes:

    Of course they did.

    Both of them are out of the Government game so that doesn't help us in proving Government knew.

    It is widely accepted that they left and did not attend the dinner.

    I would find it interesting to know did they depart directly from the golf club or go to the hotel and then leave.

    If they did go to the hotel what did they do there?
    Did they sign in for covid tracing purposes?
    Did they have a drink and if so did they have a €9 meal?

    So many questions.


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    #4220
    crossman47
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭crossman47


    stockshares wrote: »
    Michael McGrath knew. He received an invitation by email and said so.

    He said that email went around too.

    If you get an invite and turn it down, you don't inquire about the details.


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    #4221
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,121 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    stockshares wrote: »
    Michael McGrath knew. He received an invitation by email and said so.

    He said that email went around too.

    We have already established that.

    I posted nearly an hour ago-

    "Some members of the Government were aware that it was taking place but I have seen no evidence that they knew the details."

    Details is the key word.


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    #4222
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭stockshares


    crossman47 wrote: »
    If you get an invite and turn it down, you don't inquire about the details.

    I think it's unreasonable to assume that people did not talk about the big event coming up(whether they were going or not)

    It's human nature to do so.


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    #4223
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭stockshares


    elperello wrote: »
    We have already established that.

    I posted nearly an hour ago-

    "Some members of the Government were aware that it was taking place but I have seen no evidence that they knew the details."

    Details is the key word.


    You had posted while I was typing so only seen your post just now. Please see my post above.


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    #4224
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,121 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    stockshares wrote: »
    I think it's unreasonable to assume that people did not talk about the big event coming up(whether they were going or not)

    It's human nature to do so.
    stockshares wrote: »
    You had posted while I was typing so only seen your post just now. Please see my post above.

    I understand that you think that but it's a long way from confirming that anyone in Government knew the disaster planned for Clifden.

    Some might reasonably assume that if they did they would have tried to stop it.

    After all it would be human nature for MM not to want to lose another Minister for Agriculture.


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    #4225
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭stockshares


    elperello wrote: »
    I understand that you think that but it's a long way from confirming that anyone in Government knew the disaster planned for Clifden.

    Some might reasonably assume that if they did they would have tried to stop it.

    After all it would be human nature for MM not to want to lose another Minister for Agriculture.

    That's what's gas. If he didn't know it's incompetence and if he did know it's callous disregard.


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    #4226
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,121 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    stockshares wrote: »
    That's what's gas. If he didn't know it's incompetence and if he did know it's callous disregard.

    I don't see how it's incompetence if he didn't know.

    Hard to expect busy people to enquire about every detail of an event they are not attending.

    If he did know maybe we are into a real twilight zone of skullduggery.

    Again though, there are two big "ifs" in play here.


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    #4227
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭stockshares


    elperello wrote: »
    I don't see how it's incompetence if he didn't know.

    Hard to expect busy people to enquire about every detail of an event they are not attending.

    If he did know maybe we are into a real twilight zone of skullduggery.

    Again though, there are two big "ifs" in play here.

    He's Taoiseach. He needs to know what's going on around him. As they say keep your enemies close and your friends closer. There's no friends in the political game
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/aileron/2012/12/27/keeping-your-enemies-closer/

    On a separate point but related to the succession.
    Keep an eye on this. How Emily O Reilly became EU Ombudsman.
    https://twitter.com/bergormanlowry/status/1300061314040160256?s=19


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    #4228
    yaboya1
    Registered Users Posts: 4,610 ✭✭✭yaboya1


    stockshares wrote: »
    He's Taoiseach. He needs to know what's going on around him. As they say keep your enemies close and your friends closer

    They don't say that.


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    #4229
    stockshares
    Registered Users Posts: 2,758 ✭✭✭stockshares


    yaboya1 wrote: »
    They don't say that.

    It's a twist on the original relevant to politics. There are no friends

    From Caesars time. "Et Tu Brute."

    Atm Martin's biggest enemy apart from himself is Varadkar who is like the Sword of Damocles hanging over his head at every joint interview and press conference


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    #4230
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,663 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    elperello wrote: »
    I don't see how it's incompetence if he didn't know.

    For me if he didnt know then it is incompetence but not really on behalf of Martin himself- the blame would lie with his six special advisors who are his eyes and ears. They are supposed to know everything that is going on in the party and to be feeding it back to him. He also has a small army of civil servants working for him in the Dept of the Taoiseach. He probably gets hundreds of emails a day but he also has a lot of people there to monitor them and respond.

    Id be surprised if the golf event was never mentioned to Martin at some sort of daily briefing. As leader of his party he would be expected to know about social events his party is involved in, even if he doesnt intend going to them himself.
    elperello wrote: »
    Fianna Fail sponsored an €80 prize not MM.

    I wonder was that the George Foreman grill that big Phil won? I could just imagine the smirk on Hogans face after having won a George Foreman grill that Fianna Fail paid for followed by the back slapping and yahooing from his Fine Gael colleagues :rolleyes:


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    #4231
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users Posts: 16,572 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Muahahaha wrote: »

    I wonder was that the George Foreman grill that big Phil won? I could just imagine the smirk on Hogans face after having won a George Foreman grill

    A grill that drains the fat out of burgers? Not sure that's Big Phil's style...


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