PHIL HOGAN NEEDS TO RESIGN.

breezy1985

quokula wrote: »

Why exactly would we want someone who's fighting our corner during Brexit negotiations to resign and most likely be replaced with somebody from another country who won't have as much interest in Ireland?

Because he had dinner out during lockdown? It was a stupid thing to do but I assume the other million plus people in the country who have also done that at some point should resign from their jobs too by that logic?

It doesn't matter if he is good or not Ireland now has its own "drain the swamp" brigade who just want everyone gone for the sake of it

_Kaiser_

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Like him or not (I don’t particularly) but Hogan is extremely well regarded in Brussels. The Commission will probably not be happy that he was forced out for what is in perspective a pretty small offence and most likely Ireland will get a far less high profile brief. The big countries will be thrilled that the trade brief will be available to them. Oh and we will lose a massive voice at the table in respect to NI and the future agreement.

This keeps coming up.

Hogan as an EU commissioner doesn't represent Ireland. He represents the EU. His role is to serve the interests of the group as a whole. How that affects Ireland (good or bad) is incidental.

His nationality has no bearing on this. There's no "green jersey" aspect here.

begbysback

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

Couldn't be further from the truth tbh. We are a very passive forgiving people.

The levy has broke now and there is no going back.

The bumhunters now have a covid pastime and a taste for blood, as those in the hospitality industry have lost their jobs at least the previously defunct gallows builders will again have gainful employment.

HBC08

The Belly wrote: »

Hard to know what they will do but the government here is on thin ice with the public and they need a bigger fall guy so Hogans's number might be up.

As much as I dislike Hogan I think he's not going anywhere.People seem to think that he can be sacked or asked to resign by MM or Leo and that's not the case.They have asked him to consider his position so have done all they can (whether they genuinely want him to go or for optics it doesn't matter)

MickeyLeari

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This keeps coming up.

Hogan as an EU commissioner doesn't represent Ireland. He represents the EU. His role is to serve the interests of the group as a whole. How that affects Ireland (good or bad) is incidental.

His nationality has no bearing on this. There's no "green jersey" aspect here.

The green jersey aspect is that there is a good chance the new Irish Commissioner will get a far less prominent brief and we will not be thanked for this. Soft influence is important.

_Kaiser_

HBC08 wrote: »

As much as I dislike Hogan I think he's not going anywhere.People seem to think that he can be sacked or asked to resign by MM or Leo and that's not the case.They have asked him to consider his position so have done all they can (whether they genuinely want him to go or for optics it doesn't matter)

Leo and Micheal calling on him to consider his position is an attempt to get ahead of the situation and the growing anger here over the last few days.

They have no say in whether he does and it's only after further revelations about his movements have emerged. It's political spin and optics. Nothing more.

They'll sit back and let the EU decide what to do with him, but the goal is to try and regain control of the situation here.

ExMachina1000

MickeyLeari wrote: »

So what is this in reality:

- the Government policy up to last week was to get the country back to business.
- we had a job stimulus plan in July and a good part of this was in respect to the hospitality industry which is on its knees right now. Note that close to a million people are either on the PUP or the TWSS (we won’t be able to afford this for long).
- we have a Government policy of encouraging staycations. The extent to this approachis that the chair of Bord Failte was forced to resign after taking a holiday in a country which was perfectly ok to travel to (normal precautions is the DFA advice)
- hotels and restaurants are reeling from Covid 19 and trying to stay open while adhering to complex rules.
- the Cabinet in a panic last Tuesday changed the rules and they could not even explain them at a press conference.
- the hotel and the hotels federation seemingly received advice that functions could be split so as to comply with the rules applying until Tuesday afternoon.
- the hotel and the hotel federation were seeking clarity on the new rules (huge uncertainty in respect to these rules). https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-hotels-federation-golf-gate-5181902-Aug2020/
- an event went ahead under this uncertainty - an event which was in line with the opening up message which applied until the previous day (although no one was 100% sure what the Cabinet agreed).
- a member of that Cabinet attended the event and should have known it was in breach of what he agreed the previous day (the rest of us did not really have a clue).
- that Minister was right to resign having agreed this.
- the organisers clearly knew that they were stretching the existing rules.
- other attendees (like with all health and safety advices) would have had to assume that the event was in line with govt advice and legal regulations.

If this was in front of a rationale body such as a Court or workplace dispute it would be thrown out in minutes but this is the Court of public opinion.

The "well I didn't know" or "I assumed I was doing the right thing " defense wouldn't fly in any court.

Ever get caught speeding? Tell the guard you didn't know the limit and see if he let's you off

Ignorance isnt a viable excuse.

McMurphy

Millionaire only not wrote: »

Early money on Leo for the job , are the people of Ireland about to lose a good leader ?

Definitely not.

https://twitter.com/RoundLeader/status/1276428359199752192?s=19

is_that_so

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Leo and Micheal calling on him to consider his position is an attempt to get ahead of the situation and the growing anger here over the last few days.

They have no say in whether he does and it's only after further revelations about his movements have emerged. It's political spin and optics. Nothing more.

They'll sit back and let the EU decide what to do with him, but the goal is to try and regain control of the situation here.

Exactly, it's the right political call by both of them and costs them nothing. It's likely that next week's big event will push the story into oblivion.

MickeyLeari

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

The "well I did know" or "I assumed I was doing the right thing " defense wouldn't fly in any court.

Ever get caught speeding? Tell the guard you didn't know the limit and see if he let's you off

Ignorance isnt a viable excuse.

All I am saying is that here and in the media and on social media the Government was being criticised on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday in respect to the uncertainty and inconsistency on what was agreed by Cabinet on Tuesday this week.

What did the new rules mean? When did they come into effect? What were the exceptions? What about existing events?

This was a disaster of a week for the Government - we are all over the place as a country. Open things up to get the economy moving. Shut down hospitality because of meat plant failures.

If you were an MNE looking at investment in this country - right now like the 1980’s and the financial crisis you would run a mile away.

893bet

McMurphy wrote: »

Definitely not.

https://twitter.com/RoundLeader/status/1276428359199752192?s=19

Jesus. Never realised Leo was involved in the shooting or the dismemberment.

I think MM has to go after the tragedy in Donegal this week. That’s his fault surely.

s1ippy

What it really comes down to is MM is a spineless, weak leader who is undermined by all and sundry and he has lost several people their positions due to his lack of control, poise and general haplessness. He can't even fake competence. If I were any of those affected I would be livid. A lot of people are now going to feel that he's ruined their careers and basically the whole country hates him, he comes off as a prick. Is it his fault? It's partly his own mad flapping about and partly having a worst enemy for a second in command.

I'm just baffled he seemingly got no PR training, and not even a copy of "How to Be Taoiseach (For Dummies!). Leo surely has that lying around, but I guess that's more subterfuge.

horse7

I see Hogan has a mustache now.

whisky_galore

McMurphy wrote: »

Definitely not.

https://twitter.com/RoundLeader/status/1276428359199752192?s=19

A grudge list containing irrelevancies that can't all be laid at Leo's door. Much as I dislike him it's an unfair go.

begbysback

McMurphy wrote: »

Definitely not.

https://twitter.com/RoundLeader/status/1276428359199752192?s=19

You're holding Leo Varadker accountable for elderly folks incontinence, seriously?

the purple tin

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

Why do you think he would help us? Because he's Irish :pac: He doesn't give a hoot about Ireland.

Yes, when you work in Brussells your loyalty is to Germany first and foremost. All other member states are much further down the totem pole. Ireland would be near the bottom tbh.
Don't think Phil will ever stick his neck out for us just because he's Irish. He got the EU job as a reward for bulling the Irish Water scheme through and for trying to privatise it on the qt from the get-go. Then as commisioner he shafted Irish farmers in the Mercosur deal (which benefited Germany).

There was another Irishman who was a big deal in Brussells: Peter Sutherland, did he look out for our interests because of his nationality?

Did he heck! He forced Brian Cowan to bail out AIB and back up the bondholders (which was unheard of up until then).
He also stroked BIFFO's ego and told him he would be remembered as Ireland's greatest Taoiseach :rolleyes: and promised him a cushy number in the EU when he retired.
BIFFO was a stooge but to be fair he has been more candid in recent years about how the EU forced us into the deal https://www.irishtimes.com/business/brian-cowen-gives-eu-both-barrels-over-bailout-crisis-1.3170099
his conscience is probably nagging at him.

We have been screwed over and saddled with generations of debt by Sutherland, who Hogan idolised btw, and people are still deluding themselves that Big Phil will have our back during Brexit because he was born in Ireland.

Get real, people. Hulk's brief as trade commisioner is to make decisions that benefit Germany and Germany alone. We would be lucky if he threw us a few crumbs from his table.

_Kaiser_

is_that_so wrote: »

Exactly, it's the right political call by both of them and costs them nothing. It's likely that next week's big event will push the story into oblivion.

I don't know. I think schools reopening is going to be chaos and short lived myself given the same mixed messaging and individual schools doing different things, the back n forth over school buses etc

I think it'll certainly become the big news event but this story plus the row about the policy changes at the start of the week will feed into the fallout.

I think there's a very real possibility of people on the street, and the Government collapsing. Schools is their core focus since they formed. It HAS to go well (especially now), but I don't see how it can.

MickeyLeari

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't know. I think schools reopening is going to be chaos and short lived myself given the same mixed messaging and individual schools doing different things, the back n forth over school buses etc

I think it'll certainly become the big news event but this story plus the row about the policy changes at the start of the week will feed into the fallout.

I think there's a very real possibility of people on the street, and the Government collapsing. Schools is their core focus since they formed. It HAS to go well (especially now), but I don't see how it can.

If the leaving cert and school reopening go badly then I expect we will have an election in the coming weeks.

is_that_so

s1ippy wrote: »

What it really comes down to is MM is a spineless, weak leader who is undermined by all and sundry and he has lost several people their positions due to his lack of control, poise and general haplessness. He can't even fake competence. If I were any of those affected I would be livid. A lot of people are now going to feel that he's ruined their careers and basically the whole country hates him, he comes off as a prick. Is it his fault? It's partly his own mad flapping about and partly having a worst enemy for a second in command.

I'm just baffled he seemingly got no PR training, and not even a copy of "How to Be Taoiseach (For Dummies!). Leo surely has that lying around, but I guess that's more subterfuge.

I don't think he is a leader, more that it was his turn and he was pushed into it but FF have been handicapped by losing a lot of experienced people and not finding decent replacement for them. I think he's also rewarded people it turns out really didn't deserve it but the talent pool is either callow or limited. The process was so much easier for FG with their 9 years behind them.

Fr_Dougal

If Hogan, Cowen, Calleary and co. were SF politicians you’d have Mary Loooo brush everything off and declare that she’s “not their mammies”. Has that SF councillor in Monaghan resigned yet? Nope. Has Mary Loooo called for her resignation? Nope. The double standards.

sydthebeat

McMurphy wrote: »

Definitely not.

https://twitter.com/RoundLeader/status/1276428359199752192?s=19

That tweet is so stupid it actually serves the opposite of what it's for.

How can you hold Leo responsible for a criminal dismemberment? Or incontinence of elderly people (how long have they been recording those incidents BTW?) or using movie quotes to make his speeches more memorable?

Hold him to account on the obvious failings such as the covid nursing home debacle or the collapse of his parties vote in the last election.

But that stuff in the tweet..... We're not Americans

_Kaiser_

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

If Hogan, Cowen, Calleary and co. were SF politicians you’d have Mary Loooo brush everything off and declare that she’s “not their mammies”. Has that SF councillor in Monaghan resigned yet? Nope. Has Mary Loooo called for her resignation? Nope. The double standards.

This thread/issue has nothing to do with SF, and as far as I know the Councillor in question didn't actually do anything wrong.

Limpy

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

If Hogan, Cowen, Calleary and co. were SF politicians you’d have Mary Loooo brush everything off and declare that she’s “not their mammies”. Has that SF councillor in Monaghan resigned yet? Nope. Has Mary Loooo called for her resignation? Nope. The double standards.

Then you would probably start a thread calling for SF minister's Calleary et all to resign.

jm08

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

This keeps coming up.

Hogan as an EU commissioner doesn't represent Ireland. He represents the EU. His role is to serve the interests of the group as a whole. How that affects Ireland (good or bad) is incidental.

His nationality has no bearing on this. There's no "green jersey" aspect here.

I think the EU Commission will want to retain him because as an Irishman, a lot of doors will be open for him in Washington. I think that is the reason some of the WTO wanted him. Seemingly the US don't like dealing with Europeans whose first language isn't English.

Higgins5473

the purple tin wrote: »

Get real, people. Hulk's brief as trade commisioner is to make decisions that benefit Germany and Germany alone. We would be lucky if he threw us a few crumbs from his table.

I couldn’t agree more with all of this. Phil Hogan has shown over a long time that he doesn’t give a f*ck about anything other than Phil Hogan. The idea that he was going to be some kind of master negotiator in helping Ireland secure some trade deals that will protect us from any type of economic ruin is laughable. You would have to assume it’s just the hardcore FGers, shills, bots, party PR machine throwing this nonsense out in the media in a last ditch effort to keep him in his position.

is_that_so

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I don't know. I think schools reopening is going to be chaos and short lived myself given the same mixed messaging and individual schools doing different things, the back n forth over school buses etc

I think it'll certainly become the big news event but this story plus the row about the policy changes at the start of the week will feed into the fallout.

I think there's a very real possibility of people on the street, and the Government collapsing. Schools is their core focus since they formed. It HAS to go well (especially now), but I don't see how it can.

Schools are everything and the government legacy. Mess up and it will probably end it.
I think the school reopening will be OK as all the noise about the so-called poor planning may help do it better. There will be some problems, massively magnified in some quarters but I think it'll settle down. The challenge will be when cases emerge and IMO there will be some.

McMurphy

893bet wrote: »

Jesus. Never realised Leo was involved in the shooting or the dismemberment.

I think MM has to go after the tragedy in Donegal this week. That’s his fault surely.

No Leo didn't have any direct involvement in the dismemberment,**whoosh** he was just Taoiseach at the time, same for the housing and health crises his govt presided over so there's that, though there is the disastrous election results in fairness leo was involved there alright.

Next up you'll be telling me Leo had no involvement in Ireland and "fastest growing economy in Europe", right?

_Kaiser_

sydthebeat wrote: »

That tweet is so stupid it actually serves the opposite of what it's for.

How can you hold Leo responsible for a criminal dismemberment? Or incontinence of elderly people (how long have they been recording those incidents BTW?) or using movie quotes to make his speeches more memorable?

Hold him to account on the obvious failings such as the covid nursing home debacle or the collapse of his parties vote in the last election.

But that stuff in the tweet..... We're not Americans

The tweet is stupid and sensationalist but the issues behind each statement are the key points.

Elderly people suffering the indignity and embarrassment of incontinence because they're lying on a trolley in a hall because there's no bed/room to put them in as FG failed on health is what they're (badly) getting at

jm08

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

If Hogan, Cowen, Calleary and co. were SF politicians you’d have Mary Loooo brush everything off and declare that she’s “not their mammies”. Has that SF councillor in Monaghan resigned yet? Nope. Has Mary Loooo called for her resignation? Nope. The double standards.

Has Cowen and Callery resigned their Dail seats? Are we still paying them to sit in the Dail?

_Kaiser_

is_that_so wrote: »

Schools are everything and the government legacy. Mess up and it will probably end it.
I think the school reopening will be OK as all the noise about the so-called poor planning may help do it better. There will be some problems, massively magnified in some quarters but I think it'll settle down. The challenge will be when cases emerge and IMO there will be some.

Agreed. Given that the return to school always brings colds and sniffles running through the classroom (have an 8 year old myself) and that each of these cases will have to be treated as a potential outbreak, it'll be chaos.

Add in kids from different classes and even schools on buses, families with kids in different schools, and the need then for that household to presumably isolate as a precaution, I can't see how it can possibly work - or indeed how their parents are supposed to be able to work under those circumstances