PHIL HOGAN NEEDS TO RESIGN.

First Up

mick087 wrote:

if the EU commision was a democracy If we was able to vote and Luke ming got the majority of votes then yes.

Has it occured to you that if the EU was a democracy, all the Commissioners would be from Germany, France, Italy and Spain?

No I guess it hasn't.

GhostyMcGhost

[Deleted User] wrote: »

OK, with this I think we've gone full 'Outrage'.

Can we move back to fighting the virus spread?

Our job managing the spread of the virus would be a hell of a lot easier if shysters like Phil behaved themselves

Just look how many people are saying they’ll ignore the extra 2 week lockdown in Kildare. Doing so doesn’t stick it to the man, it just aids the spread of the virus

Good luck trying to implement any form of lockdown in Dublin if that’s a decision NPHET come to in the future

ExMachina1000

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Our job managing the spread of the virus would be a hell of a lot easier if shysters like Phil behaved themselves

Just look how many people are saying they’ll ignore the extra 2 week lockdown in Kildare. Doing so doesn’t stick it to the man, it just aids the spread of the virus

Good luck trying to implement any form of lockdown in Dublin if that’s a decision NPHET come to in the future

If granny/ grandad or mammy/daddy catch it from one of these lockdown ignoring folk and they end up in icu which leads to them dying slowly and alone I wonder will they decide if ignoring the lockdown was worth it or not.

McMurphy

I must have missed it yesterday with all the comings and goings, but I just heard on Newstalk that it has been revealed that Phil stayed in Kildare the night before leaving for Brussels too?

First Up

GhostyMcGhost wrote:

Our job managing the spread of the virus would be a hell of a lot easier if shysters like Phil behaved themselves

Hogan's case will be decided where it should be and will be based on the facts.

Having driven past numerous crowded pubs last weekend, I do find the outrage on display in here somewhat selective.

McMurphy

Phil has the Gardai dragged into his mess now also.

Gardaí discretion under spotlight after verbal warning for Hogan

mick087

First Up wrote: »

Has it occured to you that if the EU was a democracy, all the Commissioners would be from Germany, France, Italy and Spain?

No I guess it hasn't.

There are 27 unelected but selected commissioners 1 for each state.
There is no reason why each state could not have an election where the people decided who the commissioner would be.

Id guess this did and has occured to the unelected but selected commissioners. This thought, idea would sends shivers down the unelected commissioners spines. The sheer notion, of being accountable to it's citizens must really terrify them.

Jackman25

Michael Martin must be absolutely delighted with this (After the initial anger of course).

Instead of being chased by the pitchforked, baying mob, he is now leading it.

Its time to put away the pitchforks now and dial down the social-media amplified outrage, but the mob won't be sated until it has tasted blood from every one of the 81.
It has found its cartoon villains that it can blame all the hardship of Covid on, just like it could blame Seanie Fitz and David Drumm for the state of the country in circa 2010.
Leo and MM will be hoping Hogan brazens it out as it will keep all the sheep bleating in his direction and distract them from the circus that is their Government.

If I drove down to a wedding in Clifden and I found 81 people attending, would I turn around and go back. Would I ****.

Jackman25

First Up wrote: »

Hogan's case will be decided where it should be and will be based on the facts.

Having driven past numerous crowded pubs last weekend, I do find the outrage on display in here somewhat selective.

The mob likes to have named villains that it can target.
Multiple pubs or hotels is no good, the outrage gets too diluted.
Needs the likes of the Berlin bar or named entities like the 81 to work up the frenzy.

stoneill

Jackman25 wrote: »

If I drove down to a wedding in Clifden and I found 81 people attending, would I turn around and go back. Would I ****.

Yes, but you are not a law maker, the majority of the golfists in that room must be held to a higher standard. If they ignore covid restrictions, why should any of us follow them. All our daily lives have been impacted. Yet they think it ok to ignore rules, not only that, the arrogance of them having a shindig when they absolutely know that weddings, funerals, communions, confirmations, birthdays and lots of family gatherings were cancelled.

mick087

golfball37 wrote: »

It’s moving slowly but at least it’s moving. Aine Brady and Brian Hayes should be next for public scrutiny, the sort big Phil is getting. How someone can head up an elderly organization and travel from a banned location in these dangerous times for the elderly is unacceptable as his her silence.
Grealish is definitely setting Cassidy up for something too, Captain turning on President after the captains prize was canceled- wouldn’t surprise me.

Yes its moving and i hope more of these names face the music as much as the unelected Phil Hogan has done.

LillySV

McMurphy wrote: »

Phil has the Gardai dragged into his mess now also.

Gardaí discretion under spotlight after verbal warning for Hogan

Love this bit-
“ A garda in the west had a wider understanding of discretion. “If I stop you using a mobile briefly and you’re a safe enough driver and you weren’t driving past a school or something like that, you could be let off with a caution that would be recorded on Pulse”

My wife got penalty points using a phone in stationary traffic ... nowhere near a school!! No warnings... no offer to explain case... straight out penalty points ... they often sit in numerous places In Galway where the know traffic builds up to a standstill and nail anyone who touches a phone ... in that article they’re making out that they’re often logical and offer cautions to the ordinary folk is pure muck!

jacool

Phoebas wrote: »

What is that belief based on?

The dateline says that
17Aug2020 He went to Kildare
19Aug2020 He was at the event in Galway

Its not proof.
Doubt as to where he overnighted is due to the fact that people were told initially that he went directly from Kilkenny to Galway. The Kildare story became necessary when an Garda Siochana information contradicted that initial statement.
For all we know, he could have spent a night in Clifden, in the hotel.

LillySV

First Up wrote: »

Hogan's case will be decided where it should be and will be based on the facts.

Having driven past numerous crowded pubs last weekend, I do find the outrage on display in here somewhat selective.

Did u report these pubs ?

Field east

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Once again I will ask - what difference does an Irish person in the EU Commission make to Ireland?

They cannot show favouritism to Ireland.

And Hogan is only interred in himself.

You are so right PP. Hogan is so typically Irish - only interested in himself. Would I be right in thinking that you are not interested in yourself. You might give us some examples as to how you act out this take on life

bottlebrush

Jackman25 wrote: »

Michael Martin must be absolutely delighted with this (After the initial anger of course).

Instead of being chased by the pitchforked, baying mob, he is now leading it.

Its time to put away the pitchforks now and dial down the social-media amplified outrage, but the mob won't be sated until it has tasted blood from every one of the 81.
It has found its cartoon villains that it can blame all the hardship of Covid on, just like it could blame Seanie Fitz and David Drumm for the state of the country in circa 2010.
Leo and MM will be hoping Hogan brazens it out as it will keep all the sheep bleating in his direction and distract them from the circus that is their Government.

If I drove down to a wedding in Clifden and I found 81 people attending, would I turn around and go back. Would I ****.

So we need some guidelines as to who exactly the covid guidelines apply to then..

First Up

mick087 wrote:

There are 27 unelected but selected commissioners 1 for each state. There is no reason why each state could not have an election where the people decided who the commissioner would be.

At the moment we vote for the people who decide who the commissioner will be. Its a system called representative democracy - read up on it.

Field east

Dual wheels wrote: »

Of course just look at the big ignorant Kilkenny head on him

Why are you bringing the GAA into it. Is this a classical example of a troller or/someone trying to deflect/ derail the thread?

First Up

LillySV wrote:

Did u report these pubs ?

Yes. I can name them here if you like.

ec18

mick087 wrote: »

so ya'll get big phil's scalp ok... who replaces him? does ireland still keep the agriculture portfolio?
If the EU commision was a democracy then we would could replace him with the candidate who had the most votes.

by all i've heard hes pretty good at his job over there. Get your scalp & replace with who? Luke ming? we'll all become hash farmers will we?
if the EU commision was a democracy If we was able to vote and Luke ming got the majority of votes then yes.

I'll gaurantee 95% of the people calling for his scalp are no holier than himself.
I'll gaurantee 100% of the EU commison was selected and not elected.

Whats behind the mask is now slowly being revealed, the working of the unelected selected elite called the EU commission.

Clearly have no idea about the commission or what it does but that don't let that bother you with the conspiracy theories. The commission isn't a democracy it's a representative body where each member states government selects a commissioner.

The parliament is separate. The need for a commission in an institution like the EU where there are so many diverse countries/cultures and political changes. The commission is essential to remove the noise and be able to be productive. The commissions work isn't secretive, it's viewable through the EU records and documents on the web site.

Role: Promotes the general interest of the EU by proposing and enforcing legislation as well as by implementing policies and the EU budget
Members: A team or 'College' of Commissioners, 1 from each EU country
President: Ursula von der Leyen
Year established: 1958
Location: Brussels (Belgium)
Website: European Commission

Role: Directly-elected EU body with legislative, supervisory, and budgetary responsibilities
Members: 705 MEPs (Members of the European Parliament)
President: David-Maria Sassoli
Established in: 1952 as Common Assembly of the European Coal and Steel Community, 1962 as European Parliament, first direct elections in 1979
Location: Strasbourg (France), Brussels (Belgium), Luxembourg
Website: European Parliament

Put the tinfoil hat back on and leave us in peace please

Jackman25

stoneill wrote: »

Yes, but you are not a law maker, the majority of the golfists in that room must be held to a higher standard. If they ignore covid restrictions, why should any of us follow them. All our daily lives have been impacted. Yet they think it ok to ignore rules, not only that, the arrogance of them having a shindig when they absolutely know that weddings, funerals, communions, confirmations, birthdays and lots of family gatherings were cancelled.

The National politicians in attendance were rightly sacked or had to resign. There is no excuse for them especially when retired politicians like Enda Kenny can see it. At this point no national or even local politician should be anywhere near anything like that shindig.

But I don't see much benefit in the baying for the blood of the others or the shaming campaign that is being conducted.

lawrencesummers

LillySV wrote: »

Love this bit-
“ A garda in the west had a wider understanding of discretion. “If I stop you using a mobile briefly and you’re a safe enough driver and you weren’t driving past a school or something like that, you could be let off with a caution that would be recorded on Pulse”

My wife got penalty points using a phone in stationary traffic ... nowhere near a school!! No warnings... no offer to explain case... straight out penalty points ... they often sit in numerous places In Galway where the know traffic builds up to a standstill and nail anyone who touches a phone ... in that article they’re making out that they’re often logical and offer cautions to the ordinary folk is pure muck!

It’s still illegal. Take your medicine.

The bigger person will obey the laws and not use the flouting of them by others as an excuse to ignore them.

Using the mobile in the car is a bad habit, a dangerous habit and everyday people get away with it thousands of times, Just because people get away with it doesn’t mean Everyone should.

I’ve been caught not wearing a seatbelt far less times than I actually wasn’t wearing one. I’ve been caught over the speed limit far less times than I was over the speed limit.

In what appears to be a one off isolated incident a warning can suffice, what I would like to see however is Phil hogan entire driving record, and if politicians get warning more often than the general population.

Jackman25

First Up wrote: »

Yes. I can name them here if you like.

Go on.

GhostyMcGhost

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Break an orange light? No


Again, Phil hogan

- broke local lockdown restrictions
- broke the law by driving whilst using a phone
- broke government restrictions on indoor gatherings
- ignored a significant weather warning

it’s a disgrace. Coming at a time of mixed government messages on restrictions and general public fatigue....

really ? :D:D ignored a significant weather warning?? That's not an offence. I do that all the time especially as most of these weather warnings are no more than ordinary weather events and are blown totally out of proportion. Everything folks is driven by media ..... these things always happened ....except now we need a nanny state to tell us to stay indoors.

I think the outrage needs to be turned down, its hysterical and been going on 6 days now.
I really cannot stand Phil Hogan. He is an arrogant fool and most people would love to see him fall on his sword. But this is almost childish now in its revenge. People need to step back. I dont need to be told again how much we all sacrificed and how much we suffered, I did too.

However if I was EU Commissioner and lived in Brussels and had "lived the life" for years, out of touch with the nitty gritty of day to day Irish life, I would probably take the chances he took too. He lives alone in his fabulous apartment in the K Club which lets face it is very exclusive and private, hardly a danger. He wasn't popping into the local Centra or Tesco . Yes I would probably head off to a golf dinner in Clifden especially if all my friends were and a current Government Minister. I would also probably use my phone...... as one of the highest officials in the EU he would feel quite immune to the rules the plebs live by and has a lot of immunity regarding travel too. I would hazard a guess that most politicians are never off their phones in their cars, they just aren't caught.

In fact how many of us do NOT use phones when driving? Mine is always on speaker but sometimes I take it off the bluetooth car system as its too poor and just put it on its own speaker on my car seat or my lap.

My point is that so many of us would do the very things Phil Hogan has done, especially if we were in his shoes! I am not outraged or hysterical about this. I am very angry and dislike Phil Hogan even more.... but TBH I don't even think Dara Calleary should have resigned. Huge issues for farming right now due to the appalling Summer, flooding everywhere, crops being wiped out, harvest ruined in the South, and we have no Minister for Agriculture...... is that really a good result? Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot! Irish people are great for that. We fired the best CEO of Failte Ireland 2 weeks ago when we have never needed one as much as now! Crazy!

We are living in a cancel culture because we are all great at thinking how perfect and brilliant we are and how bad others are. Heads on plates, baying for blood, mass screaming hysteria, anger, anger, anger............none of this is good for one's personal health. Deep breaths and let this go, or let the hysteria go. Let Ursula sort this out with Phil Hogan and lets all move on in peace.


yesterday a woman buried her husband and 2 children in Donegal. That has had far more of an impact on me than this Golfgate saga. Real stuff, real life going under the radar because people are obsessed and hysterical about Phil Hogan.

Dyr

First Up wrote: »

At the moment we vote for the people who decide who the commissioner will be. Its a system called representative democracy - read up on it.

Why dont we vote for county councillors and then have them appoint a governement?


thats a representative democracy according to you

caveat emptor

First Up wrote: »

At the moment we vote for the people who decide who the commissioner will be. Its a system called representative democracy - read up on it.

So we don't vote for him and we have no control as an electorate. It's an oligarchy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_law_of_oligarchy

In his book Political Parties, written in 1911, Robert Michels argues that most representative systems deteriorate towards an oligarchy or particracy. This is known as the iron law of oligarchy.[20]

The iron law of oligarchy is a political theory first developed by the German sociologist Robert Michels in his 1911 book, Political Parties.[1] It asserts that rule by an elite, or oligarchy, is inevitable as an "iron law" within any democratic organization as part of the "tactical and technical necessities" of organization.[1]

According to Michels, all organizations eventually come to be run by a "leadership class", who often function as paid administrators, executives, spokespersons or political strategists for the organization. Far from being "servants of the masses", Michels argues this "leadership class," rather than the organization's membership, will inevitably grow to dominate the organization's power structures.

By controlling who has access to information, those in power can centralize their power successfully, often with little accountability, due to the apathy, indifference and non-participation most rank-and-file members have in relation to their organization's decision-making processes.

Michels argues that democratic attempts to hold leadership positions accountable are prone to fail, since with power comes the ability to reward loyalty, the ability to control information about the organization, and the ability to control what procedures the organization follows when making decisions. All of these mechanisms can be used to strongly influence the outcome of any decisions made 'democratically' by members.
.

Hawthorn Tree

This story is perfect in showing ALL the wrongs in our political environment.

Hawthorn Tree

lawrencesummers wrote: »

In what appears to be a one off isolated incident a warning can suffice, what I would like to see however is Phil hogan entire driving record, and if politicians get warning more often than the general population.

Wow that's naive.

The question is how many times politicians get stopped for road traffic offences and get waved on. No warning, no nothing. "Tis yourself minister..."

They nearly killed McCabe when he revealed Gardai were quashing penalty points for the elite.

Shatter, the justice minister, essentially refused to give a breath test, said 'do you know who I am?', and drove off.

Gardai were afraid to take on a person with political influence. For obvious reasons.

mick087

First Up wrote: »

At the moment we vote for the people who decide who the commissioner will be. Its a system called representative democracy - read up on it.

I do like the way you say "at the moment"

First Up

caveat emptor wrote:

So we don't vote for him and we have no control as an electorate. It's an oligarchy.

A yes, Robert Michels who eventually decided facism was the answer. You base your theories on interesting sources.