PHIL HOGAN NEEDS TO RESIGN.

golfball37

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

This story is perfect in showing ALL the wrongs in our political environment.

Absolutely- the latest cynical twist is the absolute determination to focus all the attention on bogey man Phil Hogan in the hope it sates the appetite and Joe Public ignores everything else after.
I hope Hogan stays as its now a litmus test as to how we proceed as society almost imo. If his employer decides he must go fine, thats up to her but I would be disappointed

lawrencesummers

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Wow that's naive.

The question is how many times politicians get stopped for road traffic offences and get waved on. No warning, no nothing. "Tis yourself minister..."

They nearly killed McCabe when he revealed Gardai were quashing penalty points for the elite.

Shatter, the justice minister, essentially refused to give a breath test, said 'do you know who I am?', and drove off.

Gardai were afraid to take on a person with political influence. For obvious reasons.

It’s not naive, I’ve been stopped and given a warning in the past on two occasions from something that could have been a ticket. So has my OH.

Your taking a far more serious issues and applying it to this scenario, shatter and McCabe are a completely different story.

I don’t have an issue with one person getting a warning from Gardai about phone use. As I said it should be looked into if Phil Hogan has received anymore than one warning, or if politicians regularly get warnings over and above what a regular pleb gets.

And there is phone use and phone use. Someone checking their screen at a red light is different to driving dangerously for 20 minutes as you chat away. A warning is fine for the first and a ticket for the second.

The alternative to Gardai having discretion is Far worse when they are obliged to ticket everything all the time.

fly_agaric

ec18 wrote: »

Clearly have no idea about the commission or what it does but that don't let that bother you with the conspiracy theories. The commission isn't a democracy it's a representative body where each member states government selects a commissioner.

The parliament is separate. The need for a commission in an institution like the EU where there are so many diverse countries/cultures and political changes. The commission is essential to remove the noise and be able to be productive. The commissions work isn't secretive, it's viewable through the EU records and documents on the web site.





Put the tinfoil hat back on and leave us in peace please

It is quite hard not to respond to that "unelected unelected unelected" spiel even when you know Micko87 probably really does not give a shít about the mechanics.

Likely also well capable of understanding a lot more than the child's stick drawing version of what constitutes democracy (voting, lots and lots of voting - that's it. More voting more democracy!).

It is just a handy rod to beat the EU with.

One can point to shock horror gasp DE UNELECTED COMMISSIONERS and make linkages with a dictatorship, autocracy. That's why he puts the word unelected several times in every post. Hammer home your points.

First Up

mick087 wrote:

I do like the way you say "at the moment"

You are the one advocating we change.

lawrencesummers

Deleted User wrote: »

really ? :D:D ignored a significant weather warning?? That's not an offence. I do that all the time especially as most of these weather warnings are no more than ordinary weather events and are blown totally out of proportion. Everything folks is driven by media ..... these things always happened ....except now we need a nanny state to tell us to stay indoors.

I think the outrage needs to be turned down, its hysterical and been going on 6 days now.
I really cannot stand Phil Hogan. He is an arrogant fool and most people would love to see him fall on his sword. But this is almost childish now in its revenge. People need to step back. I dont need to be told again how much we all sacrificed and how much we suffered, I did too.

However if I was EU Commissioner and lived in Brussels and had "lived the life" for years, out of touch with the nitty gritty of day to day Irish life, I would probably take the chances he took too. He lives alone in his fabulous apartment in the K Club which lets face it is very exclusive and private, hardly a danger. He wasn't popping into the local Centra or Tesco . Yes I would probably head off to a golf dinner in Clifden especially if all my friends were and a current Government Minister. I would also probably use my phone...... as one of the highest officials in the EU he would feel quite immune to the rules the plebs live by and has a lot of immunity regarding travel too. I would hazard a guess that most politicians are never off their phones in their cars, they just aren't caught.

In fact how many of us do NOT use phones when driving? Mine is always on speaker but sometimes I take it off the bluetooth car system as its too poor and just put it on its own speaker on my car seat or my lap.

My point is that so many of us would do the very things Phil Hogan has done, especially if we were in his shoes! I am not outraged or hysterical about this. I am very angry and dislike Phil Hogan even more.... but TBH I don't even think Dara Calleary should have resigned. Huge issues for farming right now due to the appalling Summer, flooding everywhere, crops being wiped out, harvest ruined in the South, and we have no Minister for Agriculture...... is that really a good result? Talk about shooting ourselves in the foot! Irish people are great for that. We fired the best CEO of Failte Ireland 2 weeks ago when we have never needed one as much as now! Crazy!

We are living in a cancel culture because we are all great at thinking how perfect and brilliant we are and how bad others are. Heads on plates, baying for blood, mass screaming hysteria, anger, anger, anger............none of this is good for one's personal health. Deep breaths and let this go, or let the hysteria go. Let Ursula sort this out with Phil Hogan and lets all move on in peace.


yesterday a woman buried her husband and 2 children in Donegal. That has had far more of an impact on me than this Golfgate saga. Real stuff, real life going under the radar because people are obsessed and hysterical about Phil Hogan.

If people dying needlessly In tragic circumstances has so much of an effect on you Does it really need to be explained to you the correlation between flouting the restrictions and people dying?????

Care to hazard a guess how many unnecessary deaths would occur if everyone behaved like this group of politicians?

First Up

Bambi wrote:

Why dont we vote for county councillors and then have them appoint a governement?

thats a representative democracy according to you

It would be a convoluted form of representative democracy but not a very good one, which is why we don't do it.

First Up

Jackman25 wrote:

Go on.

Crowes/ Mary Macs/Paddy Cullens in Ballsbridge and Martin B Slatterys on Shelbourne Rd.

Dyr

First Up wrote: »

It would be a convoluted form of representative democracy but not a very good one, which is why we don't do it.

And yet its grand for a supranational commission


Sauce for the goose lads

mick087

ec18 wrote: »

Clearly have no idea about the commission or what it does but that don't let that bother you with the conspiracy theories. The commission isn't a democracy it's a representative body where each member states government selects a commissioner.

The parliament is separate. The need for a commission in an institution like the EU where there are so many diverse countries/cultures and political changes. The commission is essential to remove the noise and be able to be productive. The commissions work isn't secretive, it's viewable through the EU records and documents on the web site.


Put the tinfoil hat back on and leave us in peace please

It should be a democracy and it should be accountable to its citizens.

So if i dont agree i should stay silent?

Jackman25

First Up wrote: »

Crowes/ Mary Macs/Paddy Cullens in Ballsbridge and Martin B Slatterys on Shelbourne Rd.

You must have Phil Hogan like multi-tasking abilities if able to judge that all of them were over-crowded and breaking restrictions just by driving past.

caveat emptor

ec18 wrote: »

Clearly have no idea about the commission or what it does but that don't let that bother you with the conspiracy theories. The commission isn't a democracy it's a representative body where each member states government selects a commissioner.

The parliament is separate. The need for a commission in an institution like the EU where there are so many diverse countries/cultures and political changes. The commission is essential to remove the noise and be able to be productive. The commissions work isn't secretive, it's viewable through the EU records and documents on the web site.





Put the tinfoil hat back on and leave us in peace please

We have a situation which exposes the lack of oversight perfectly.

National politicians have had to resign positions based on their behaviour.

The unelected commissioner who undermined his office by flouting local laws and restrictions is unanswerable to the people who elected their representatives who in turn nominated him to his supranational position.

If you can't see the issue with that then it's cognitive dissonance or wilful ignorance.

First Up

Jackman25 wrote:

You must have Phil Hogan like multi-tasking abilities if able to judge that all of them were over-crowded and breaking restrictions just by driving past.

Easy when the crowds are standing shoulder to shoulder outside.

First Up

Bambi wrote:

And yet its grand for a supranational commission

No comparison whatever but blather away.

fly_agaric

caveat emptor wrote: »

We have a situation which exposes the lack of oversight perfectly.

National politicians have had to resign positions based on their behaviour.

The unelected commissioner who undermined his office by flouting local laws and restrictions is unanswerable to the people who elected their representatives who in turn nominated him to his supranational position.

If you can't see the issue with that then it's cognitive dissonance or wilful ignorance.

Okay, who made Ireland king and decided "we" (or our politicians on our behalf) should be able to remove the EU commissioners from office? Can you not see how this (or any form of recall mechanism that originates directly out of the member state governments or people rather than at the EU level itself) is going to create a load of problems?

Would make the EU more subject to whims of 26 member states local politics & more unworkable and ungovernable than it already is, although maybe that is the idea/goal of people who'd argue for it (rather than ignorance/short sightedness).

edit: The fact that "we" (as in the Irish Govt. representing us) cannot remove an EU commissioner is not a lack of oversight. It is a feature.

Tij da feen

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s not naive, I’ve been stopped and given a warning in the past on two occasions from something that could have been a ticket. So has my OH.

Your taking a far more serious issues and applying it to this scenario, shatter and McCabe are a completely different story.

I don’t have an issue with one person getting a warning from Gardai about phone use. As I said it should be looked into if Phil Hogan has received anymore than one warning, or if politicians regularly get warnings over and above what a regular pleb gets.

And there is phone use and phone use. Someone checking their screen at a red light is different to driving dangerously for 20 minutes as you chat away. A warning is fine for the first and a ticket for the second.

The alternative to Gardai having discretion is Far worse when they are obliged to ticket everything all the time.

A lot of people would agree that for Mobile phone use (like drink driving) there should be a zero tolerance policy for breaking the laws. It's an inherently dangerous practice that leads to accidents and loss of life.

Fair enough that discretion is involved with some offences, but being real here, most Gardai would not give out warning for mobile phone use, even if it was stopped at the lights.

mick087

First Up wrote: »

You are the one advocating we change.

Change will come.

lawrencesummers

lawrencesummers wrote: »

If people dying needlessly In tragic circumstances has so much of an effect on you Does it really need to be explained to you the correlation between flouting the restrictions and people dying?????

Care to hazard a guess how many unnecessary deaths would occur if everyone behaved like this group of politicians?

People have been behaving like this group of politicians all Summer!!! House parties, drunken groups in closed pubs, beach parties, BBQs, travelling abroad on holidays and yet our death rates are lower than ever!!


To be honest I am sick to death of the Phil Hogan show, the media kill these things to death so it almost has the reverse effect. Let it go.
I know all the stats, the figures, the "chances" of getting Covid, it could happen anywhere to any of us and we might never know how we got it. I lost a child to cancer, there are no guarantees in this life to anything.
Nobody right now is dying of Covid........nursing home cases were what gave us such a high death rate.

ec18

caveat emptor wrote: »

We have a situation which exposes the lack of oversight perfectly.

National politicians have had to resign positions based on their behaviour.

The unelected commissioner who undermined his office by flouting local laws and restrictions is unanswerable to the people who elected their representatives who in turn nominated him to his supranational position.

If you can't see the issue with that then it's cognitive dissonance or wilful ignorance.

or a basic understanding that a body like the EU needs different institutions and way or working to be able to run any way effectively.....

mick087

Tij da feen wrote: »

A lot of people would agree that for Mobile phone use (like drink driving) there should be a zero tolerance policy for breaking the laws. It's an inherently dangerous practice that leads to accidents and loss of life.

Fair enough that discretion is involved with some offences, but being real here, most Gardai would not give out warning for mobile phone use, even if it was stopped at the lights.

I would be one of those who would like to see Mobile phone use when driving be treated like drink driving.
I was a witness to an accident a few years ago because someone was using a mobile when driving. Thankfully no one died but it made me think.
I know its not popular but it should be treated very serious manner.

jacool

Jackman25 wrote: »

You must have Phil Hogan like multi-tasking abilities if able to judge that all of them were over-crowded and breaking restrictions just by driving past.

First Up mustn't have been on his phone, unlike Phil.

mick087

mick087 wrote: »

I would be one of those who would like to see Mobile phone use when driving be treated like drink driving.
I was a witness to an accident a few years ago because someone was using a mobile when driving. Thankfully no one died but it made me think.
I know its not popular but it should be treated very serious manner.

yes you're right, its a huge distraction. I use mine on speaker or bluetooth and even that sometimes is distracting. It only takes a second and those TV ads really have a powerful effect, we all need to be reminded of this regularly.

mick087

ec18 wrote: »

or a basic understanding that a body like the EU needs different institutions and way or working to be able to run any way effectively.....

Run effectively for who, and servings who's interests?
Who would they be accountable to?

Marty Xavier

Deleted User wrote: »

People have been behaving like this group of politicians all Summer!!! House parties, drunken groups in closed pubs, beach parties, BBQs, travelling abroad on holidays and yet our death rates are lower than ever!!


To be honest I am sick to death of the Phil Hogan show, the media kill these things to death so it almost has the reverse effect. Let it go.
I know all the stats, the figures, the "chances" of getting Covid, it could happen anywhere to any of us and we might never know how we got it. I lost a child to cancer, there are no guarantees in this life to anything.
Nobody right now is dying of Covid........nursing home cases were what gave us such a high death rate.

I agree with you, for all the corruption etc that went on there is a massive fallout for this. We all partied ...a week or two ago. I was at a kids birthday party at the weekend and there was about 30 people there. This is common I'm afraid.

Hawthorn Tree

lawrencesummers wrote: »

It’s not naive, I’ve been stopped and given a warning in the past on two occasions from something that could have been a ticket. So has my OH.

Your taking a far more serious issues and applying it to this scenario, shatter and McCabe are a completely different story.

I don’t have an issue with one person getting a warning from Gardai about phone use. As I said it should be looked into if Phil Hogan has received anymore than one warning, or if politicians regularly get warnings over and above what a regular pleb gets.

And there is phone use and phone use. Someone checking their screen at a red light is different to driving dangerously for 20 minutes as you chat away. A warning is fine for the first and a ticket for the second.

The alternative to Gardai having discretion is Far worse when they are obliged to ticket everything all the time.

I imagine Phil's phone rings a lot. An awful lot. Especially in recent days.

Pat Kenny interviewing European Union journalist based in Brussels this morning.
He was more or saying it was laughable Ireland trying to get the EU Commissioner fired from his job. He is employed by the EU and is based there. They only get fired for corruption and bribery, embezzlement of funds etc like the Maltese commissioner Dalli in 2012 for fraud and bribery....... far bigger offences than going to a golf dinner.

RandomViewer

It's obvious that Hogan isn't going to resign so should FG offer another head in his place?

mick087

Deleted User wrote: »

yes you're right, its a huge distraction. I use mine on speaker or bluetooth and even that sometimes is distracting. It only takes a second and those TV ads really have a powerful effect, we all need to be reminded of this regularly.

It really does only take a second. People don't understand until it happens to them.
Once upon a time drink driving was the normal now only the stupid drink and drive.
Mobile phone use should be in the same league as drink driving.

Gerry Hatrick

Deleted User wrote: »

People have been behaving like this group of politicians all Summer!!! House parties, drunken groups in closed pubs, beach parties, BBQs, travelling abroad on holidays and yet our death rates are lower than ever!!


To be honest I am sick to death of the Phil Hogan show, the media kill these things to death so it almost has the reverse effect. Let it go.
I know all the stats, the figures, the "chances" of getting Covid, it could happen anywhere to any of us and we might never know how we got it. I lost a child to cancer, there are no guarantees in this life to anything.
Nobody right now is dying of Covid........nursing home cases were what gave us such a high death rate.

Normal decent people haven't been doing the things you mention, they've been abiding by the health guidelines because they are decent people. Scumbags have been doing the things you mention because that's what they are, scumbags.

If you are sick to death of it just turn off the radio/TV/Social media and get on with your life.

elperello

mick087 wrote: »

Change will come.

I hope it will be democratic change.

Europe is literally coming down with democracy.

From local councils to national parliaments (most with upper houses) to presidential elections to EU Parliament elections we have many opportunities to exercise our democratic rights.


The "unelected" Commission is just part of the structure that runs the EU.

Not perfect, in need of constant scrutiny, but not undemocratic.

Gerry Hatrick

Gerry Hatrick wrote: »

Normal decent people haven't been doing the things you mention, they've been abiding by the health guidelines because they are decent people. Scumbags have been doing the things you mention because that's what they are, scumbags.

If you are sick to death of it just turn off the radio/TV/Social media and get on with your life.

yes but it hasn't caused hundreds of deaths and that was my point.......none of this scumbag behaviour caused a spike in deaths. Mr "care to hazard a guess" asked me this question and I was answering it................have a lovely day too........thankfully I have a life outside of Boards :-)