PHIL HOGAN NEEDS TO RESIGN.

embraer170

The COVID-19 hospital medical test excuse is a good one. No one will be able to any evidence to contradict that.

The passing by Kildare just to the pick up his passport on the way home I am really far less convinced of.

jm08

mick087 wrote: »

My experience differs
I find when you allow people to vote they will loan powers and if not happy take them powers back.
When you have a selected powerful group its not so easy to take there powers away.

Im sure you believe your idea of democracy is correct but to me it flawed and undemocratic.

Because someone don't agree with you does not mean they want destruction or dissolution.

Glad to see no sneer this time around.

There is a limited term of office. Most Commissioners last only 4 years and the few who last longer are moved around.


Phil Hogan & Ursula VDL will have to face the European Parliament frequently and there are plenty in there (including Claire Daly, Mick Wallace and Ming) well able to fight their corner.


I suppose you would prefer if some chancer like Nigel Farage got elected as an EU Commissioner in a direct vote. We've all seen how disrupted that shower were in the European Parliament.

normanoffside

seamus wrote: »

Citizen's Information doesn't suggest that any number of tests makes you exempt from the 14-day period. Only the requirement to self-isolate is removed; but that's for close contacts and people who are ill, not for travellers.

As far as I can tell, people who have travelled and aren't otherwise exempt have no way to "get out" of the 14 day restriction period.

He has linked at the bottom to the relevant section where it says it:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/covid19/testing_for_covid19.html

Citizuens Information wrote:

Test results
If you have tested negative for COVID-19, you will receive your results by text message. You do not have to self-isolate any longer.

jm08

embraer170 wrote: »

The COVID-19 hospital medical test excuse is a good one. No one will be able to any evidence to contradict that.

The passing by Kildare just to the pick up his passport on the way home I am really far less convinced of.

Seriously though, he called into his apartment in Kildare, probably went to the toilet (instead of stopping and going into a hotel), picked up some stuff and headed off.


If I was in his shoes and knew I was clear of Covid, I wouldn't be self isolating. There should be an option instead of self isolation that people can get the Covid test and if clear, move on.


Thats too much like common sense though.

Tony EH

RandomViewer wrote: »

Get the notion that the big thick gulldy that can't be sacked is being used as a distraction, there were people there whose presence causes a huge conflict of interest. Brian Hayes for instance, had no errand being there, theres a retired judge who may now require his entire case history reviewed. There's a sitting judge who can't sit in a court again.
How many of these cosy little gatherings have happened in the last while?

The whole thing smacks of the Galway Tent, but with more comfort.

seamus

normanoffside wrote: »

He has linked at the bottom to the relevant section where it says it:

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/health/covid19/testing_for_covid19.html

That's self-isolation, not restriction of movement. These are two different things.

People who have tested postive or who have symptoms are required to self-isolate.

People who are close contacts or have travelled, are required to restrict their movements.

lucernarian

token56 wrote: »

I'm guessing next will be Micheal and Leo saying they are satisfied with the account he has provided, still shouldn't have gone to Galway, etc but it's time to move on.

They definitely seem to have overplayed the hand they thought they had. No one has come out of this looking well, Dara Calleary probably looking the best which is hard to believe.

I don't think they overplayed any hand, it took all that for Phil Hogan to be responsible for his actions, such is the thick neck on him.

RandomViewer

expectationlost wrote: »

Brian Hayes doesn't work for the state anymore, the Oireachtas Golf Society is due to be disbanded, the retired judge is retired(his cases do not need to be reviewed) and the other judge is being investigated.

He's the judge who tried Fitzpatrick, two known associates of Fitzpatrick at the do , I think his cases need reviewed .
Politicians and vulture capitalists should not be meeting with judges in any non judicial setting.

DeanAustin

billybonkers wrote: »

5 August - I was admitted to a Dublin hospital for a medical procedure.
While in hospital, I tested negative for Covid-19 (www.citizensinformation.ie confirms that a negative test result ends the self-restriction period).

This is how he will get out of it

Even if he tested negative for Covid, that doesn't allow him to go in and out of Kildare at his leisure. His explanation for the first visit is ropey enough but he's admitted staying the second time before an early morning flight. That's a violation of the regulations for me.

The other thing he can't explain away is the fact his spokesperson, presumably on his say so, lied about his movements until the phone episode became public.

normanoffside

seamus wrote: »

That's self-isolation, not restriction of movement. These are two different things.

People who have tested postive or who have symptoms are required to self-isolate.

People who are close contacts or have travelled, are required to restrict their movements.

Haha, he is chancing his arm so!

To be honest i do think that a Negative test should over rule any restrictions on movement after returning form abroad but if that's not the case he is using this to cloud the waters.

partyguinness

No mention of when he arrived in Adare or where he stayed.

Edgware

seamus wrote: »

That's self-isolation, not restriction of movement. These are two different things.

People who have tested postive or who have symptoms are required to self-isolate.

People who are close contacts or have travelled, are required to restrict their movements.

Does that include bowel movements. If so it would explain why he is full of it.

Viewtodiefor

Haven’t read all posts in this thread but just wondering would some here shouting for him to be gone be as vociferous if it was one of there own family who was in this position be it whatever mistake they made in their workplace. And also has no one broken any part of lock down rules ever. I know I have certainly flirted along them on occasions.
Ps that event should never have happened in Galway.
Hopefully Ursula will see sense.

fly_agaric

mick087 wrote: »

My experience differs
I find when you allow people to vote they will loan powers and if not happy take them powers back.
When you have a selected powerful group its not so easy to take there powers away.

It's been gone through a few times why this particular body are selected rather than directly elected. I mentioned idea (and you did also) that maybe we could have a process to vote for who Ireland would send to the Commission but that would still not allow us (Irish people or our politicians) to recall them, vet them after the fact, discipline them or remove them before their term ends as many people on the thread wish to see happen with Hogan. That really must occur somewhere at the EU level to avoid chaos.

I am unsure if EU treaties lay down in detail exactly how govt. of member state must select the Commissioner(s) they send to the EU. I think it is a power/privilege that the member state governments would be quite reluctant to give up/open up more "directly" to their own people.

Voting is a part of democracy but there are alot of other aspects involved, and if they are weak/do not exist voting for people and in referendums just becomes a show or a bit of a joke or even worse it becomes quite dangerous.
More votes, and votes for more things (laws, people) need not always correlate to more democracy.

I've tried to explain my own opinion a bit more rather than "sneer"...which may be pointless and is also going really far off topic.

lucernarian

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Haven’t read all posts in this thread but just wondering would some here shouting for him to be gone be as vociferous if it was one of there own family who was in this position be it whatever mistake they made in their workplace. And also has no one broken any part of lock down rules ever. I know I have certainly flirted along them on occasions.
Ps that event should never have happened in Galway.
Hopefully Ursula will see sense.

I honestly can't think of any that I've broken but I guess it's easier to be careful when you have experience in working in labs/hospitals etc.

And a friend of mine is the nephew of one of the attendees who shall remain nameless. Not a serving politician but a member of FFG nonetheless. My friend wasn't at all impressed with what they did.

expectationlost

RandomViewer wrote: »

He's the judge who tried Fitzpatrick, two known associates of Fitzpatrick at the do , I think his cases need reviewed .
Politicians and vulture capitalists should not be meeting with judges in any non judicial setting.

review his previous socialising then before you review his cases.

mick087

jm08 wrote: »

T

I suppose you would prefer if some chancer like Nigel Farage got elected as an EU Commissioner in a direct vote. We've all seen how disrupted that shower were in the European Parliament.

Why bring up Nigel Farage?

You suppose is incorrect. Yet another deflection.

It would be more democratic if they was elected, by its citizens and then accountable to its citizens.

Being selected and not elected by its citizens is not democratic.

partyguinness

Can we get a "on mature reflection"...

seamus

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Haven’t read all posts in this thread but just wondering would some here shouting for him to be gone be as vociferous if it was one of there own family who was in this position be it whatever mistake they made in their workplace. And also has no one broken any part of lock down rules ever. I know I have certainly flirted along them on occasions.
Ps that event should never have happened in Galway.
Hopefully Ursula will see sense.

If one of my family was in Phil Hogan's position, I wouldn't be shouting for his resignation, but I would be saying, "What in God's name were you doing, you bloody gobsh1te?", and if he did get fired I wouldn't be slow to point out that it was his own fault.

There's flirting with the rules, and then there's ignoring them altogether.

Hogan breached the rules at least twice and has spent the last week having to reissue his statements every time it turns out that he has "omitted" some pertinent information. From a public servant, this is not acceptable.

Viewtodiefor

seamus wrote: »

If one of my family was in Phil Hogan's position, I wouldn't be shouting for his resignation, but I would be saying, "What in God's name were you doing, you bloody gobsh1te?", and if he did get fired I wouldn't be slow to point out that it was his own fault.

There's flirting with the rules, and then there's ignoring them altogether.

Hogan breached the rules at least twice and has spent the last week having to reissue his statements every time it turns out that he has "omitted" some pertinent information. From a public servant, this is not acceptable.

Point taken yes it was stupid. Don’t think he totally ignored them though. Looking at this he may stay unless there’s more to come out.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-rules-leave-phil-hogans-fate-in-ursula-von-der-leyens-hands/

ForestFire

seamus wrote: »

If one of my family was in Phil Hogan's position, I wouldn't be shouting for his resignation, but I would be saying, "What in God's name were you doing, you bloody gobsh1te?", and if he did get fired I wouldn't be slow to point out that it was his own fault.

There's flirting with the rules, and then there's ignoring them altogether.

Hogan breached the rules at least twice and has spent the last week having to reissue his statements every time it turns out that he has "omitted" some pertinent information. From a public servant, this is not acceptable.

Exactly, and remember, he did not break the rules to see an ill family member, or pop into a shop to get essential food without a mask, he forgot to bring.....this was all for a golfing shindig on the far side of the country, with other public representatives .......while traveling though as many other counties as possible along the way.....

Whatever you do never challenge him to a game of....

https://goslinggames.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/Gosling_20171221-029-Web.jpg

Edgware

Will someone please think of the children?

lawrencesummers

I dont believe the statement, but until somebody offers evidence to the contrary I can’t see him getting more than a slap on the wrist for not recognising that he shouldn’t have been there.

I think he should also go further and provide evidence of his travel, credit card usage, tolls receipts, car milage to put everything to bed.

The statement also glosses over the fact that the event as organised under the old rules was also in breech of the old rules.

Balagan1

partyguinness wrote: »

No mention of when he arrived in Adare or where he stayed.

Arrived in Adare, stayed in Dunraven Arms on 12th, same day as he was in Dublin meeting the Tánaiste, and played golf on 13th.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40037582.

Thing is, how have the good people of Co. Limerick kept it all so quiet. Desperate for tourists, I know, but you'd think someone would have sold the news for a few bob.

citycentre

Pretty clear that he absolutely flouted the rules on restriction of movement - negative test or not.

The guidance he referred to in his account of movements (in his typical arrogant, blase fashion) is about self isolation, which is for people who actually have the symptoms but who test negative. Absolutely nothing to do with restricting movement after travelling from a non green list country.

What an utter chancer he is.

caveat emptor

It seems more detail is emerging!
I can't stand over the accuracy of it (neither could Phil)
(It's FAKE but funny, try not to get offended nor shoot the messenger
Seems someone is making a joke out of his behaviour. )

https://twitter.com/BigDirtyFry/status/1298273094239322114?s=20

Balagan1

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Point taken yes it was stupid. Don’t think he totally ignored them though. Looking at this he may stay unless there’s more to come out.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-rules-leave-phil-hogans-fate-in-ursula-von-der-leyens-hands/

At this point, it would have to be dog stealing, before he'd have to go. Myself, I think it's all a distraction to keep us from refusing to let the kids back to school because that whole thing is the real scandal and tragedy going to happen. God help us all!

RandomViewer

expectationlost wrote: »

review his previous socialising then before you review his cases.

If he was popping along to golfing shindigs and getting flutered with Hayes and Hogan while the Fitzpatrick case was on going I think there is clear conflict of interest and any other case he presided over in the period that concerned any known associates of Hayes or Hogan would be open to appeal.
Think the judge's are the real story here, whole judiciary being brought into ill repute.

Psychiatric Patrick

Viewtodiefor wrote: »

Haven’t read all posts in this thread but just wondering would some here shouting for him to be gone be as vociferous if it was one of there own family who was in this position be it whatever mistake they made in their workplace. And also has no one broken any part of lock down rules ever. I know I have certainly flirted along them on occasions.
Ps that event should never have happened in Galway.
Hopefully Ursula will see sense.

I have not broken any lockdown rules and it was a sibling of mine they'd be hoisted from the nearest lamppost and you'd all be welcome to at the rotter like a piñata.

And hopefully Boss Lady will see sense... and sack him.

Podge_irl

mick087 wrote: »

Why bring up Nigel Farage?

You suppose is incorrect. Yet another deflection.

It would be more democratic if they was elected, by its citizens and then accountable to its citizens.

Being selected and not elected by its citizens is not democratic.

Would you also like to vote for judges, heads of civil service departments, and UN ambassadors?

The president of the Commission is elected in a not dissimilar fashion from our Taoiseach. We can not directly remove cabinet members either it should be pointed out - there is no recall mechanism in the Dáil.