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PHIL HOGAN NEEDS TO RESIGN.

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    #2822
    elperello
    Registered Users Posts: 15,128 ✭✭✭✭elperello


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    What part of IMPARTIAL are you struggling with, if Woulfe is down the FG Cumann with the trouserlegs rolled up at night and then making judicial decisions during the day there isn't impartiality

    I'm not struggling at all.

    Of course a sitting judge would not be an active party member.

    That's not in question.


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    #2823
    The_Brood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭The_Brood


    God-King Emperor Hogan can not resign, his ascension to power was prophesied as far back as the Mayans, who are we to stand in the way of holy divinity?


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    #2824
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »
    You criticised s1ippy for calling someone a prick just because they have a different opinion.

    You said you "For this alone I hope Hogan survives in his role"

    You hope Hogan maintains his position regardless of any wrongdoing just just because you diagree with calling a person a prick.

    You are doing the same thing you say s1ippy did.

    I fundamentally disagree with mob rule, which is what this is turning into.
    Leaving aside the stupidity of going to the dinner, the rules are at least somewhat confusing, they are ever-changing, and they are not something I would expect an individual who lives in a different country to be fully aware of.
    Would it all have been fine if he had flown in through Belfast? Or taken the ferry?


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    #2825
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    fly_agaric wrote: »
    You would characterise it like that of course. The EU institutions have generally had higher "morals" than our own political representatives over the years from what I've seen and have helped improved standards of governance here.
    e.g. I posted early on thread of Charlie McCreevy having to be told by the EU that taking up a director role after his period as Commissioner would cause conflict of interest. The way that politicians in this country have operated in the past + the way citizens here seem to generally be "okay" with that sort of thing (so long as he's "pulling" for us") probably meant he saw no problem at all with it.

    The issue about Commissioners and future roles is not limited to McCreevy. There was a big scrap in respect to the former President Barosso and taking a position with Goldman Sachs. The biggest critics in all this was the Commission staff - at least they are allowed a voice unlike Irish civil servants.


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    #2826
    Psychiatric Patrick
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Psychiatric Patrick


    The_Brood wrote: »
    God-King Emperor Hogan can not resign, his ascension to power was prophesied as far back as the Mayans, who are we to stand in the way of holy divinity?

    God-King Emperor ?

    I think you missed one? Surely there is another?


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    #2827
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    Jizique wrote: »
    Nigel Farage agrees with you

    That,s about the4th time that deflection has popped up.

    I'm no surporter of the former democratically elected MEP Mr Farage.


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    #2828
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,105 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    elperello wrote: »
    I'm not struggling at all.

    Of course a sitting judge would not be an active party member.

    That's not in question.
    Would not be? Or should not be?
    It's already been pointed out that Woulfe is an active FG member...


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    #2829
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »
    Lads, can we talk about the but where Hogan says the Guards wouldn't;t have stopped him if they knew who he was?

    How has this not cause the country to implode?

    Sure its Ireland, its how things are done.


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    #2830
    Piehead
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭Piehead


    Looks like it’s

    BIG PHIL 1 CURTAIN TWITCHERS 0


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    #2831
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 33,105 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Piehead wrote: »
    Looks like it’s

    BIG PHIL 1 CURTAIN TWITCHERS 0
    Rubbish....i don't think the final whistle has blown by any means....
    In fact I think it's more likely he will go now, he has constantly been digging himself a bigger hole, if he does stay he has seriously damaged his reputation. Pretty much reviled in Ireland.


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    #2832
    ec18
    Registered Users Posts: 2,726 ✭✭✭ec18


    mick087 wrote: »
    There would be a case for many of the political institutions for its citizens vote yes.



    You would have a point about many would not know the workings of the commission. This does need to change.

    Im sure if more people knew the power that such an important unelected by its citizens organization had then more people would want to know why.
    Yes it might not be easy for citizens a informed vote but then again maybe it would be easy maybe the citizens actually know whats best instead of a selcted few.

    You said some not all? what are the exceptions?

    The commissions workings and what they are looking at can be seen across the portfolios here - https://ec.europa.eu/info/index_en

    There are numerous examples of the general population not knowing what's best. (Brexit, Trump, Bolsanaro etc) Some things need to be insulated from the fickleness of public opinion and misinformation.


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    #2833
    Psychiatric Patrick
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Psychiatric Patrick


    Piehead wrote: »
    Looks like it’s

    BIG PHIL 1 CURTAIN TWITCHERS 0

    Based on what?


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    #2834
    Psychiatric Patrick
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Psychiatric Patrick


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    Sure its Ireland, its how things are done.

    Can be that way in any country but the "them" don't usually say it in public


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    #2835
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭Jizique


    mick087 wrote: »
    That,s about the4th time that deflection has popped up.

    I'm no surporter of the former democratically elected MEP Mr Farage.

    You sound like one and you agree with his criticism of the EU commission


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    #2836
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users Posts: 4,935 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    So because politicians were bad in the past here they should be allowed to flout Irish Law and act with impunity because the EU is good? It's not a great argument.

    If they are so moral then they should have no issue holding him to account. It shouldn't take him getting caught in several lies for this to be the case BTW.

    Fair play to MM and Leo for having the balls to call him on his bullsh!t. They understand that people have had it with this crap.

    Sigh...It is not a great argument but I did not make it.
    Unfortunately (yet another can of worms) most of our Covid-19 response is based on "recommendations" and "advice" rather than set regulations and the Gards enforcing public health laws on people and businesses for their (our) own good whether they (or we) like it or not. He committed a road traffic offence while here afair but generally people don't get removed for this.
    I didn't think he should resign or be removed over what he did originally, but if he's been evasive about it afterwards that seems to be a wider issue of ethics.


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    #2837
    Psychiatric Patrick
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Psychiatric Patrick


    fly_agaric wrote: »
    Sigh...It is not a great argument but I did not make it.
    Unfortunately (yet another can of worms) most of our Covid-19 response is based on "recommendations" and "advice" rather than set regulations and the Gards enforcing public health laws on people and businesses for their (our) own good whether they (or we) like it or not. He committed a road traffic offence while here afair but generally people don't get removed for this.
    I didn't think he should resign or be removed over what he did originally, but if he's been evasive about it afterwards that seems to be a wider issue of ethics.

    You like not having them?


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    #2838
    embraer170
    Registered Users Posts: 2,436 ✭✭✭embraer170


    smurgen wrote: »
    From the horse's mouth , this is unbelievable.

    https://twitter.com/paddycosgrave/status/1298537457621913600?s=19

    Is this real and can the full interview be found anywhere? It definitely deserves some headlines.


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    #2839
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    ec18 wrote: »
    what about the cabinet of ministers in the irish government? Do you have a similar view on them? The advisers that work with them? what about the sec generals of the different govt departments?

    where does the voting for things stop ? I'm all for democracy but and one person one vote but there comes a point when it's counter productive and inefficient for everyone to vote on everything


    Each cabinet member is elected as a TD before getting a post as minister.
    Each minister is then even more accountable to its citizens,

    The unelected commissioners should look at that system maybe an elected MEP could stand for election as a commissioner is each of it states.


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    #2840
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    Jizique wrote: »
    You sound like one and you agree with his criticism of the EU commission


    Don't believe all you read about people who don't agree with the EU unelected EU commission as being right wing Nigel fans.


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    #2841
    Piehead
    Registered Users Posts: 471 ✭✭Piehead


    gmisk wrote: »
    Rubbish....i don't think the final whistle has blown by any means....
    In fact I think it's more likely he will go now, he has constantly been digging himself a bigger hole, if he does stay he has seriously damaged his reputation. Pretty much reviled in Ireland.

    Reviled by the curtain twitchers maybe. Storm in a teacup.


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    #2842
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    fly_agaric wrote: »
    Sigh...It is not a great argument but I did not make it.
    Unfortunately (yet another can of worms) most of our Covid-19 response is based on "recommendations" and "advice" rather than set regulations and the Gards enforcing public health laws on people and businesses for their (our) own good whether they (or we) like it or not. He committed a road traffic offence while here afair but generally people don't get removed for this.
    I didn't think he should resign or be removed over what he did originally, but if he's been evasive about it afterwards that seems to be a wider issue of ethics.

    Point well made. Each offence on its own is not a resigning or firing offence but it is the quantum effect of all these transgressions (whether in the law or the spirit) combined with a lack of awareness of what he has done which is pushing him over the cliff. He has shown remarkable arrogance and that may come back to bite him. Who is advising the man - I know Commissioners have a team but they don’t seem to be serving him well at the moment.


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    #2843
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    stockshares wrote: »
    Ursula has just said she will take into account other sources of info regarding Phil Hogan.

    I still dont believe she will sack him but im only 98% now when yesterday i was 99% sure she wouldn't. Apparently its not so easy (surprise surprise)


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    #2844
    Jizique
    Registered Users Posts: 1,908 ✭✭✭Jizique


    mick087 wrote: »
    Don't believe all you read about people who don't agree with the EU unelected EU commission as being right wing Nigel fans.

    Yes, the “left wing” Shinner fans are the other side of the arse cheek


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    #2845
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    Piehead wrote: »
    Looks like it’s

    BIG PHIL 1 CURTAIN TWITCHERS 0


    very good i like that :pac:


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    #2846
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    mick087 wrote: »
    I still dont believe she will sack him but im only 98% now when yesterday i was 99% sure she wouldn't. Apparently its not so easy (surprise surprise)

    I think it is a high bar in terms of legislation and he would have the right to appeal it through the courts.


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    #2847
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    I think it is a high bar in terms of legislation and he would have the right to appeal it through the courts.

    So would it be ethical to take a court case having been relieved of his position based on an ethical issue? Not even your wan who fell off a swing did that. Is there no honour among politicians these days?


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    #2848
    mick087
    Registered Users Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭mick087


    ec18 wrote: »
    You said some not all? what are the exceptions?

    The commissions workings and what they are looking at can be seen across the portfolios here - https://ec.europa.eu/info/index_en

    There are numerous examples of the general population not knowing what's best. (Brexit, Trump, Bolsanaro etc) Some things need to be insulated from the fickleness of public opinion and misinformation.

    Well apart from The unelected commissioners id look at Judges Garda Commissioners.

    That is sheer arrogance
    "examples of the general population not knowing what's best. (Brexit, Trump, Bolsanaro etc) Some things need to be insulated from the fickleness of public opinion and misinformation"

    Im not happy with these people myself but they was elected by its own citizens. If the people are not happy they can vote them out.
    You might not like these people i might not like them but it was the citizens choice. The citizens gave them power the citizens can take that power away.


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    #2849
    ShamNNspace
    Registered Users Posts: 4,751 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    ec18 wrote: »
    You said some not all? what are the exceptions?

    The commissions workings and what they are looking at can be seen across the portfolios here - https://ec.europa.eu/info/index_en

    There are numerous examples of the general population not knowing what's best. (Brexit, Trump, Bolsanaro etc) Some things need to be insulated from the fickleness of public opinion and misinformation.

    Can you be sure that the instinct of the majority of British people to vote to leave the EU may not prove the right one in the long run?
    Are you really sure the international stage especially the middle east or the US domestic stage for that matter would be in a more peaceful or better state had that vile woman beaten Trump 4 years ago? You can't know and frankly I find posts like this more than a little patronising


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    #2850
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,663 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Hawthorn Tree wrote: »
    Did I hear Phil was in Roscommon too? Why did he stop there?



    He stopped in Roscommon so he could sell the litter of puppies that he stole in Kilkenny. It hasnt come out yet but Phil Hogan is actually one of Europes biggest dealers of stolen puppies and he uses his EU Commissioner job as cover for whats really going on.


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    #2851
    titan18
    Registered Users Posts: 12,005 ✭✭✭✭titan18


    Muahahaha wrote: »
    He stopped in Roscommon so he could sell the litter of puppies that he stole in Kilkenny. It hasnt come out yet but Phil Hogan is actually one of Europes biggest dealers of stolen puppies and he uses his EU Commissioner job as cover for whats really going on.

    I've heard he kicks them after he steals them too


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