Was I out of line to send this text?

LegacyUser

I'd like to start by saying I know this is quite a trivial issue, but it's something that's just been on my mind.

I live with a girl (let's call her Jane) and we get on great. Recently a new girl moved in (Sarah).
Sarah has been here two months. She's more likely to spend time in her room than come to the sitting room with Jane and I, and is probably a little less sociable than us, but that's fine of course. Jane and I have always been very welcoming and we're pretty easygoing.

The issue is, Sarah has two big bags of unpacked kitchen utensils in the kitchen since she moved in. They're just sitting on the kitchen table. I'm not a clean freak but I'm not a fan of clutter and neither is Jane. I considered just putting them away for her but there's not much space for them and when she first moved in she said she'd accumulated a lot of stuff and she herself said "I think I'll need to get a trolley or stand for my kitchen stuff."

(As a side note, Sarah doesn't contribute much to general house duties. She doesn't put out the bins, empty the dishwasher, she'll sit in the pitch black sitting room and say she was too lazy to put on the lamp... etc...)

The other morning I was cleaning the kitchen and thought to myself "Those bags are going nowhere and it's driving me mad."

So I text Sarah and said I'd noticed she hadn't had a chance to unpack her kitchen bits and I can't find room for them, so would she mind if I popped them outside her room for her to sort through?

That was almost a week ago and she read it and never replied. I haven't seen her since because we've both been away or when I've been home she's been in her room. I find it very odd to just not respond to a text like that.

My housemate Jane said it was a rude text to send and I shouldn't have done it, but I thought I was just being honest. Jane is now anxious because she feels there's tension but I can't understand why there should be.

Was I out of line?

(Also, when she didn't reply I didn't bring the stuff up to her room. So they're still sitting on the kitchen table.)

It is more than reasonable to have even waited that long - two bags sitting on the table for 2 months would drive me crazy.
If she hasn't replied in a week, then I'd be moving them and reclaiming the kitchen table.

As for the other household jobs, probably good to set things straight about those, too, at this stage, before it becomes the norm to not pitch in.

not one bit out of order, that's very inconsiderate behaviour

Dial Hard

The text in itself wasn't rude, but you really should have just said it to her directly. Sending a text was a bit passive aggressive, and it just gave her the opportunity to ignore it, as you've discovered.

bitofabind

Knock on her door and have the conversation. Avoiding each other and tiptoeing around each other is where the Chinese whispers and needless tension and weirdness starts.

I'd knock into her with a smile on my face, "hey, I know you haven't had time to deal with your kitchen stuff yet. I'd like to use the table so do you mind if I move them away? Maybe I could leave them in (X place) until you've had time to unpack?"

Tork

This is the sort of issue that can only be solved by a face to face conversation. Texts are fine for certain things but when it comes to a problem like this, the only answer is a conversation. Texts won't work, nor will post-it notes or dropping hints. As has just been suggested, I'd drop the stuff to her door and knock on it for a friendly chat.

It looks like it's time to have a clear the air house meeting anyway. Maybe Sarah doesn't know what you're expecting her to do as a member of the household? You can never assume that anybody thinks the same as you do. Communication is key. Or you could just ask her to leave?

LegacyUser

OP here!

Thanks for the replies. I don't think it was a passive aggressive move because the text was worded quite nicely and I even explained I would no problem put the stuff away for her if we weren't limited on space. (Which she herself acknowledged when she moved in).

However, I can see how a text might be seen as passive aggressive. It should have been said in person.

I agree a friendly chat is the best way to go, but considering the topic has been raised and she's decided to ignore it, won't asking her for a chat about it seem even more pushy/passive aggressive?

It's such a trivial matter but it's crazy how much these things can bother you. It's my mam's birthday tomorrow evening and I'm having her over for dinner and all I can think is where are these bloody bags going to go?!

Airyfairy12

I think it was out of line, it sounds like all the other stuff is bothering you, the not emptying the dishwasher, taking the bins out etc, but youre focusing on her bag of kitchen utensils and sending passive aggressive texts.
All you had to do was organise a meeting with your two housemates, communicate and discuss sharing the cleaning duties. Maybe the three of you could have wrote up a cleaning rota or something.
As for her bag of items, sounds like theres not allot of space for her to put her things, could you try to accommodate this in some way?

She's definitely wrong for leaving clutter and not sharing responsibility of household cleaning but your handling of it was, in my view, passive aggressive and immature and will no doubt create tension in the house.

pwurple

Oh a housemate scrap.... tricky one.

If she keeps herself to herself in the room, and is antisocial, it's hard to bring these up, I know.

But , when you send a text like that completely out of the blue, without context, people invent their own context. And depending on their personality, that reaction can range from 'oh yeah, glad they mentioned that, forgot all about it', to "those complete biatches, moaning about me behind my back, i hate them all"

AustinLostin

No you were not out of line - sounds like she has made nearly zero effort since she moved in.

If she is not around much, I think sending a text was fine. She should really be attempting to be more social if she wants to live in a house share - even if its at the initial phase of moving in just to break the ice.

With regard to there being tension - just forget about that, if you act/think like there is tension - there will be, if you don't there won't be.

Oh and if she is comfortable leaving stuff around for months in common areas - the bags won't be the end of it.

woodchuck

OP I don't think you were out of line, but as already mentioned, these things are better done face-to-face instead of by text.

galgal411 wrote: »

I agree a friendly chat is the best way to go, but considering the topic has been raised and she's decided to ignore it, won't asking her for a chat about it seem even more pushy/passive aggressive?

You don't ASK to chat about it... you just, chat about it!

galgal411 wrote: »

It's such a trivial matter but it's crazy how much these things can bother you. It's my mam's birthday tomorrow evening and I'm having her over for dinner and all I can think is where are these bloody bags going to go?!

This is the perfect excuse to bring it up so! "Hey, my Mam is coming over tomorrow and I'm cooking her a special dinner for her birthday. Would you mind keeping these things in your room for now as I need the space to cook?" Assuming she agrees, I'd also follow up with a "Great, thanks a million, I'll just pop them into your room now then if that's ok". Just so they don't get left there by her after she has agreed... which sounds likely.

Tork

This is why it's important to learn how to be assertive and to nip things in the bud. It doesn't mean that you have to be a bitch or overly pushy. Knowing when to ask and when to tell (in a nice but firm way) is a skill that comes to many of us in time. As Woodchuck has suggested, your mum coming over to visit is the ideal opportunity to rid of that clutter from the kitchen. I'd push the envelope a bit further and say "I'm going to pop them into your room if that's OK?". Or knock on her door when she's there, have the bags in my hand and say "I'm going to leave these here with you now. Mum's coming around tomorrow and I'm doing a cleanup in the kitchen".

tara73

OP, you seem like a level headed person and she seems like some weirdo, so honestly, don't blame yourself here. I lived in house shares and it always amazes me how common this type of ignorant people are.

At this stage I would just put her stuff whereever there's space and doesn't disturb. Honestly, why tiptoeing around people with social issues, it's not worth it, speaking from experience, it's just draining yourself.

Airyfairy12

tara73 wrote: »

OP, you seem like a level headed person and she seems like some weirdo, so honestly, don't blame yourself here. I lived in house shares and it always amazes me how common this type of ignorant people are.

At this stage I would just put her stuff whereever there's space and doesn't disturb. Honestly, why tiptoeing around people with social issues, it's not worth it, speaking from experience, it's just draining yourself.

That's a bit harsh to call her a weirdo!

Airyfairy12

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I think it was out of line, it sounds like all the other stuff is bothering you, the not emptying the dishwasher, taking the bins out etc, but youre focusing on her bag of kitchen utensils and sending passive aggressive texts.
All you had to do was organise a meeting with your two housemates, communicate and discuss sharing the cleaning duties. Maybe the three of you could have wrote up a cleaning rota or something.
As for her bag of items, sounds like theres not allot of space for her to put her things, could you try to accommodate this in some way?

She's definitely wrong for leaving clutter and not sharing responsibility of household cleaning but your handling of it was, in my view, passive aggressive and immature and will no doubt create tension in the house.

Jeez, relax.

This girl moved in last, the house already had kitchen utensils so the stuff in the bag for 2 months isn't needed. As evidenced by the fact they are sitting in the bag, on the table.... For 2 months.

It's absolutely ridiculous for someone to dump a bag on a shared kitchen table for 2 months and not realise they were being rude. Put it away in your room.

punisher5112

On the light note.... Get Philips hue or similar, you can control all the lights with your phone... No more sitting in the dark

leggo

I see it SLIGHTLY differently. I’ve just moved into a new place myself with housemates that have been living there a good while, so the place is kinda setup the way it’s been for years and they’re happy with it. As far as the kitchen goes, they cleared some space for me but still it sounds similar to you as in there was not much space available.

Now my situation is going to naturally work itself out in the next few weeks as another of the housemates is moving out which will reset things considerably, but if that wasn’t the case I’d be extremely frustrated while also finding it awkward and difficult to ask them to change the life they’ve become used to. But OP you say ‘there’s not much space available’, which can also be interpreted as ‘we haven’t made much space available to her’. I’d be willing to bet, being in a similar situation, this is a passive aggressive move from her to encourage you guys to make some space for her to put her stuff (which is an equally bad move on her part for the record).

The reality is OP that a working houseshare situation requires compromise and communication on all sides so everyone’s needs are at least somewhat taken care of and the sacrifices everyone makes are evenly distributed (ie if you can have your own utensils in the kitchen, so can they, but if they can’t you shouldn’t be able to either). If you see this person as someone to share the rent with rather than to share your home with, you’re going to run into this situation. However if you want a situation that’s going to work medium/long-term, the answer is to accommodate this person’s needs and maybe give up a few of your own too. If you just leave their bags outside their door, there’s a good chance they’ll take it as a ‘**** you, we’re not making space for your stuff’ and you’ll create a toxic living situation. That’s way worse than having to just move some of your own stuff and adjust to share more fairly, and you’d be used to any adjustments needed within a couple weeks tbh. Whereas if you approach it from a perspective of ‘let’s see how we can try fit as much of your stuff as possible in’ angle, the new housemate will be much more obliging and it’ll create a happier home for everyone in the long run.

What I did in an old flatshare where I was the ‘tenured’ housemate and had stuff the way I liked it, for example of a solution, was chip in with the others on a shelving unit for their stuff but didn’t use it myself. So they had all this extra space and were happy, while I’d shared the financial burden, which ended up being just €50 or so each and was a small price to pay for a peaceful home.

lainey_d_123

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

That's a bit harsh to call her a weirdo!

I mean, not really. She thought it was OK to dump stuff on a communal table for 2 months and then totally ignore a text asking her to move it. It's extremely weird and extremely rude. She sounds like an absolute child.

tara73

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I mean, not really. She thought it was OK to dump stuff on a communal table for 2 months and then totally ignore a text asking her to move it. It's extremely weird and extremely rude. She sounds like an absolute child.

and not to forget she hasn't done any cleaning or other bits in the communal areas in the house, leaving it for her flatmates to do.

Dump the stuff in front of her door and see what happens. Also hang up a cleaning rota in the kitchen with things when/ from who of you three to do. Let her know there's this cleaning rota now and she's expected to stick with it!

Tork

I'd make a point of handing the utensils to her, while she's in her room, rather than leaving them outside. She might leave them there. I'd do it in a manner similar to what you'd do if the postman had just left in a parcel for her and you were passing it on to her. Pleasant but in no doubt that the utensils are going into her room.

Ye need a rota though and a household meeting. Who's paying for the bins and the cleaning things?

boomshakalaka

i think the 3 of you should have a "family meeting" where you all sit around the table and lay out how you see this living together thing working. Lay out the "houserules" and assign responsibilities.

She may not be as social, but she still lives there and needs to share the responsibilities - as do you and your friend.

This can be a friendly conversation where you all express what you need from the house and each other, write it down and then agree to it as a group.

If you don't do this all of you will live in a space of "assumption" and I can guarantee your assumptions of each other will all be different. Ye need to get on the same page by talking it out.

BettyBoo2011

Dial Hard wrote: »

The text in itself wasn't rude, but you really should have just said it to her directly. Sending a text was a bit passive aggressive, and it just gave her the opportunity to ignore it, as you've discovered.

I would agree with this. I have learnt the hard way over the years things said in text or email get taken up often far more sensitively and spil into unnecessary issues... think espec when living together. Think just say to her face something mild like hope my text didn’t offend you and it’s no problem either way as at end of the day life is too short to create issues over something which you rightly describe yourself as fairly trivial.

Hope all smooths our quickly

stevek93

OP are you living in shared accommodation? Make a roster for days when people have to clean take the bins out etc.

Dtp1979

punisher5112 wrote: »

On the light note.... Get Philips hue or similar, you can control all the lights with your phone... No more sitting in the dark

Or get off your lazy hole and turn on the light switch.
As for not responding to a clear text message from a person you’re living with, yes, she is a total weirdo

Airyfairy12

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Jeez, relax.

This girl moved in last, the house already had kitchen utensils so the stuff in the bag for 2 months isn't needed. As evidenced by the fact they are sitting in the bag, on the table.... For 2 months.

It's absolutely ridiculous for someone to dump a bag on a shared kitchen table for 2 months and not realise they were being rude. Put it away in your room.

I am relaxed thanks!

I agree it's not ideal, that said theres ways of dealing with annoyances and difficult people, being passive aggressive, tiptoeing about, lying or worse still being nasty to the girl and calling her a weirdo as some comments here have labelled her, just seems like an awful lot of stress and drama to deal with something so small.
As problems go its really not a big deal and could easily be handled with a quick chat about communal areas of the house and everyone keeping clutter/ personal items ect to their own private spaces. Job done and no feelings hurt.

tara73

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

I am relaxed thanks!

I agree it's not ideal, that said theres ways of dealing with annoyances and difficult people, being passive aggressive, tiptoeing about, lying or worse still being nasty to the girl and calling her a weirdo as some comments here have labelled her, just seems like an awful lot of stress and drama to deal with something so small.
As problems go its really not a big deal and could easily be handled with a quick chat about communal areas of the house and everyone keeping clutter/ personal items ect to their own private spaces. Job done and no feelings hurt.

reading your posts I think you don't have any experience with those people and living with them under one roof, otherwise you also wouldn't call it 'something so small'. This things and behaviour are not small issues, although they might seem to some people, mostly those who never experienced it in house shares.

Because it's the home, the place where you should feel comfortable. And you don't feeel comfortable anymore, coming home from a stressful day the next stress starts. Having such an antisocial person living with you is not 'a small thing', it effects your day to day usual life if you can never be sure what strangeness will happen next. And I guarantee this thing will not be the last one.

I actually advice OP to get rid of her. As said, it's not worth your emotional wellbeing and energy to deal with such behaviour when you come home and want and need to relax.

Airyfairy12

tara73 wrote: »

reading your posts I think you don't have any experience with those people and living with them under one roof, otherwise you also wouldn't call it 'something so small'. This things and behaviour are not small issues, although they might seem to some people, mostly those who never experienced it in house shares.

Because it's the home, the place where you should feel comfortable. And you don't feeel comfortable anymore, coming home from a stressful day the next stress starts. Having such an antisocial person living with you is not 'a small thing', it effects your day to day usual life if you can never be sure what strangeness will happen next. And I guarantee this thing will not be the last one.

I actually advice OP to get rid of her. As said, it's not worth your emotional wellbeing and energy to deal with such behaviour when you come home and want and need to relax.

I have lived with plenty of difficult people, including couples who took over the living room and left their filthy dishes and pots on the kitchen counter for weeks at a time. It's really common and if you don't learn how to handle it assertively, it will continue to happen. It might not be quite so easy for the housemates to ask her to leave, they might need the help with paying rent, it may not be their choice who moves in, you nor I know the circumstances.
In my experience, most issues can be sorted with a friendly but firm talk with the housemate causing problems, if it persisted id ask them to leave if I had the right to and if not, id contact the landlord.

Meeoow

Sounds like the housemate is depressed.
Sitting in the dark, not bothering to put on the light. Not tidying her stuff away. Isolating herself in her room.
I don't think shes lazy or malicious.
I think you should have a word with her about clearing her stuff away. And invite her down to join yourselves in the evenings. She might appreciate it more than the text.

tara73

Airyfairy12 wrote: »

In my experience, most issues can be sorted with a friendly but firm talk with the housemate causing problems, if it persisted id ask them to leave if I had the right to and if not, id contact the landlord.

not in my experience. some might make an effort at first but fall back pretty quickly to their old habits.

and it's different with this girl anyway, she hasn't even reacted to the text, so she would miraculiously change her attitude after the housemates talk and all would be happy clappy? Dream on.

Anyway OP, you can try, more for yourself I would say, to talk to her in person, have a 'family meeting' or however you want to call it :rolleyes: with all three of you (I suspect she will not show up anyway and it will be a chore to get her to respond to it), that you can say you did everything and gave her a chance. But I don't think it will lead anywhere with her, as said, I don't think she will show up, so wasted energy from your side again.

Poster above mentioned she could be depressed or has other mental issues, I believe this is the case. But it's not something you as housemates can help her with.

leggo

There’s a lot of hysterics and very little empathy going around here. The housemate is not ‘causing problems’. It’s not like they’re having parties, making noise keeping everyone awake at night or bringing dodgy strangers back constantly. They left a bag on a table, didn’t turn the light on once when they were there by themselves and aren’t pulling their weight cleaning. A bit of perspective like.

It’s a good shout to say they may be depressed or maybe even a bit lost. I remember once moving into a new place with two people who were very close and the first couple of weeks there I felt a bit lost, alone, wondering if I’d made the wrong decision etc. Now I ended up forcing myself to make an effort and it turned out great, but not everyone is good at that. I still think OP approaching it from the standpoint of trying to compromise/engage her rather than drawing a line in the sand is the way to go. OP you haven’t done anything wrong but also see yourself as the person in the advantageous position here: you’ve lived there longer and are more settled, you’re close with the other housemate, you’re probably the stronger person right now who’s better able to cross the divide. You have to live with this person, the solution that ends most harmoniously is always the best one until you’ve exhausted every possible option.

rock22

Why is there no room for HER utensils., Surely , if you are all sharing together then it is up to you and your other housemate to remove some of your kitchen stuff to make room for hers .

Or am I missing something here?

LegacyUser

Hi all, OP here.

Just to clarify a few things... there was space for a lot of her kitchen utensils but not all. (2 big bags worth). After I sent her the text asking could I pop them up to her room I also sent a follow up text saying it's so annoying we've such limited space and maybe we could get a trolley or stand for the kitchen to make some more room. (I didn't include this in my OP as I didn't think it was relevant.)

Yesterday she actually spent the day with myself and my other housemate (Jane). We had a chill day. I found Sarah friendly but a bit prickly at times. She seemed to have some sort of answer for any comment I'd make and it was a bit uncomfortable. Jane said after she'd noticed the same. Clearly she's not a fan of me for making what I feel was a pretty fair request of her. I don't see any signs of depression or mental health issues as others have suggested.

Moreover, the bags are still there. My mother's birthday was cancelled so I didn't have to move them. But I'm really annoyed at this stage. It's a difficult one to broach as Sarah has already ignored my first request, so I think I'll have to just bring the bags to her room and politely ask her if she minds taking them as I'm just doing a clean up. Jane is annoyed about the bags too but not the most assertive person so it looks like this is going to be on me.

I'd like to reiterate that I know this isn't a massive issue! But I find small issues in a house share can actually begin to take up a lot of mental space.

Tork

All your update has done has reinforced the advice many people gave you in this thread. The three of you really need to have a house meeting - soon. This is going to fester and become more uncomfortable for you all if you don't bite the bullet. You're now learning the hard way that sending texts is a crap way of communicating complicated issues. Perhaps you're also starting to see that if you dance around an issue, it turns into what you experienced yesterday. Sharp remarks that you're now reading into. It makes me wonder how good any of you are at communication.

One thing that isn't clear here is what utensils Sarah is using? While I agree that leaving big bags of them in the kitchen isn't nice, has she any other option? She's the newest person in this house-share but apparently, the least important. Who owns the other kitchen utensils and why are they in the drawers and Sarah's stuff not? Can a compromise not be reached? Now that the weekend has passed and your mum didn't come, it's a good opportunity to open up a conversation about reorganising the kitchen. Get the other two involved in it and you can bring in talk of bins etc. organically.

For what it's worth, I don't think Sarah's depressed or anything like that. Some people just don't make for the easiest of housemates and she may be one of them. That is why it's important to nip problems in the bud and to be direct. If you'd spoken to Sarah properly (i.e. face to face) about where to leave her stuff shortly after she moved in, you wouldn't be in the mess you're in now.

JeffKenna

Why did you have to cancel your mother's birthday over the bags? Surely just lob them in a corner somewhere and forget about them?

LegacyUser

I really don't get all this tip toeing around, if her bags are sitting on a communal kitchen table then pick them up and move them to the floor or similar and if she complains tell her you needed access to the table and she can't store stuff on it.

LegacyUser

Apologies for the length of this!

It's hard having someone new move in, but it's also hard moving into a new house share, so everyone needs time to adjust. A great way for things to go smoothly, is to be open and communicative, face to face. The problem with text messages is that one simple text can be perceived in different ways, they're a handy form of communication but even the most innocent of texts can unintentionally lead to hurt feelings or misunderstandings because the tone is so open to interpretation.
You and Jane sound like nice people, and it just seems like some wires got crossed with the text message, and the air hasn't been cleared because communication isn't flowing. It doesn't help that Sarah isn't making an effort around the house, so with crossed wires and lack of effort, it's no surprise to hear that there's tension starting. The bags on the table is a simple enough fix, you all need to act as a team and organise getting one. From there it's an almost natural step to move onto discussing a cleaning rota for the shared areas.

As others have suggested, talk to the housemates face to face about having a family meeting, and say to Sarah that the bags will be moved to the floor temporarily so that you can sit around the table together. Ask Sarah is that ok with her or is there somewhere else she would like to put them? Give her options instead of her potentially viewing you as dictating to her.

I would recommend that you don't just out of the blue say you are all having a meeting in 5 minutes. Communicate with them and sort out a time and day that suits everyone, mention what you'd like to discuss so that they're not kept in the dark and possibly dreading sitting down with you. You're all adults, and it would be a shame to let a small misunderstanding ruin the atmosphere of a house share that has only just started.
At the meeting, everyone will have the chance to clear the air and find a way forward that will suit you all. At this point you're getting to know your new housemate, and she should give you a fair chance as well.
I would suggest having some snacks or nibbles out on the table, with some low music on, so it's a nice, relaxed atmosphere. Make it fun.

At the meeting, I think you should be the one to bring up the suggestion again for getting a kitchen trolley for Sarah's utensils, and suggest that everyone be involved in the decision of what trolley to get and share the cost equally among the three of you. If you start off with the trolley, hopefully Sarah will realise you're being flexible and inclusive, and will feel less prickly towards you. It most likely won't happen instantly though, it may take a few days for her to absorb the accommodations her new housemates are trying to make for her.
Maybe discuss what can be put on the potential new kitchen trolley, like can anything be moved to the trolley so Sarah can then store her stuff in a cupboard/drawer, this can give Sarah a more permanent place in the kitchen instead of just her stuff being on the trolley. Also, what size trolley would fit? What colour? Also ask if there's anything else that can be gotten for the kitchen/bathroom/house.

Try and get Jane on board with giving a suggestion so it's not all coming from you, such as a rota for the chores in the shared areas. She can put it as a positive, fair way for everyone to do their part to make it a happy living space.

Another suggestion that could be made is to set up a house share group chat, that way it will avoid anyone feeling like they're being left out, or being the single target of perceived passive aggressiveness. I would highlight that it be kept for if someone isnt at home, to share updates, cleaning rota, and shopping lists.

For a house share, I would strongly suggest having a kitty or at least some form of planned agreement for the house (if you don't have one already), so that every one is contributing equally to the costs of cleaning products and other shared items. It will save any tension building up if someone isn't contributing to their share of costs.

It's possible that Sarah is feeling like an outsider and could be feeling very aware that she's moved into a house share with two people who get on well. She's two months in the house and it seems like she's not yet settled in, whether that's because she prefers to keep to herself, or she's shy until she gets to know you both better. She may even feel like she's intruding when you're in the living room, or feels awkward so may need some encouragement said out loud to her. Maybe mention to her about having another chill evening together, or having movie and wine nights once a month or whenever, or see if there's a tv series you could watch together.

LegacyUser

Hi all, OP here again.

Thanks for all the advice so far, it's hard to reply to everything individually but I am taking it all on board!

So yesterday, I mentioned the bag situation to Jane and said "I might just drop them up to her and mention I'm just doing a clean up?" Jane became annoyed and said "You can't do that, me and you will just have to buy a trolley for the kitchen and put the stuff away for her."

Now I'm REALLY annoyed. Jane is lovely she is a people pleaser. When I first moved in, another girl moved out, and she b*tched and moaned about how she never helped out, was rude, messy, didn't contribute anything... when I asked why she never said anything to her he just said "Ah we just left it." I don't want to have to live like that.

But I get the sense I'm going to come out the b*tch in all this. And although we could call a house meeting, which I agree would be a good idea, it honestly doesn't feel right. I feel I'm going to come out of calling a meeting looking dictator-y. Maybe down the line when any tension has settled, but right now I don't think it's going to come across well.

All I can think of is to bring the bags up to her room and nicely ask her can she take them, and then say, maybe we can all chip in for some extra storage in the kitchen?

Moving them to the floor will do nothing because then we'll just have two big bags on the floor rather than on the table.

It's all very annoying and should never have become such a big issue.

LegacyUser

Apologies! I just see now that one part of my post doesn't make much sense "you all need to act as a team and organise getting one" I meant a kitchen trolley

Just because Jane is insisting on being a push over, it doesn't automatically make you the b***h. If the meeting is a no-go, then go to Sarah, and ask her what she thinks of going shopping for a kitchen trolley soon, and say it will be split three ways. Avoid mention of a cleaning rota until things are sorted with the trolley. Once the trolley is on situ, then suggest it.
I would not go with Jane's idea of just the two of you paying for the trolley, and the two of you putting away her stuff, that just doesn't make any sense. If you don't mind me asking, what age group are all the housemates? I'm quite surprised at Jane being so subservient, Sarah hasn't made any such demands, unless I missed something?
A phrase I think is suitable for this situation is, start as you mean to go on. If Jane wants to start off acting like Sarah's maid, then Sarah is hardly going to suddenly start doing her share if someone else is already doing it for her. It's no surprise that Jane has had unresolved issues with previous housemates. I'm sure she's a very nice person, but she's acting like a complete doormat.
I can imagine how frustrated you must feel right now, but it's Jane that is being unreasonable here, not you. No one should be subservient to a new housemate, and I doubt Sarah would be comfortable with it either. Sarah, for all anyone knows, could be just waiting for someone to tell her about the cleaning rota.
Deal with the immediate fixable issue first anyway, get a trolley, and offer to help Sarah set it up, but do not do it all yourselves.

LegacyUser

HouseShareAdvice wrote: »

I would not go with Jane's idea of just the two of you paying for the trolley, and the two of you putting away her stuff, that just doesn't make any sense.

+ 1 to this. Go online price trolleys and send the info to the other two, give them a deadline to get back to you with alternative options to storing excess kitchen stuff otherwise you are buying one and they owe you 1/3 each or your buying it but when you leave it goes with you. When trolley arrives make sure she puts her own stuff away. Your not her mother stop babying her. If you try and be nice and wait to discuss etc nothing is going to change.

Tork

HouseShareAdvice wrote: »

If the meeting is a no-go, then go to Sarah, and ask her what she thinks of going shopping for a kitchen trolley soon, and say it will be split three ways. Avoid mention of a cleaning rota until things are sorted with the trolley. Once the trolley is in situ, then suggest it..

I think this is an excellent idea. It might also go some way towards solving the problem of Sarah being the spare housemate. Leaving aside any faults she might have, your current way of dealing with her is no way to run a shared house. Sarah should be equal to you and Jane, rather than this interloper you're tiptoeing around. It looks like your communication is terrible too. If nobody ever discussed putting the bins out or who does the cleaning with Sarah, how can she know what's expected of her?

There's a difference between being a bitch and being assertive. You can easily make this trolley issue look like something positive. This trolley will give us more room and you can have somewhere to store your things. I assume Sarah is using them, right?

Airyfairy12

Is there a press/hot press/room thats barely used where they could be stored for the time being? Surely that would be a better solution than telling her to keep them in her room? Does she use the cutlery from the bags?

JustAThought

No you were not rude to send the text - it is her who is being extremely inconsiderate and rude. How long is her unpacked belengings going to clutter up the kitchen table - its not like she has left them in a corner or on the floor - but taking up space in an area that could ve used by allglatmates 3 times a day or to work from - totally inconsiderate.

She is probably hoping someone will clear out a press for her or make room and put them away - does she have an allocated press or has she only sommych space and knows they can not fit in there Nd so is hoping to leave them there until someone sorts it out for her? Either way it is relly unacceptable. She might feel isolated or insecure but her golden chance was to reply to your text - it would have fixed the problem easily and given her an out. As it is she now looks childish and selfish. Not a great start.

LegacyUser

JustAThought wrote: »

No you were not rude to send the text - it is her who is being extremely inconsiderate and rude. How long is her unpacked belengings going to clutter up the kitchen table - its not like she has left them in a corner or on the floor - but taking up space in an area that could ve used by allglatmates 3 times a day or to work from - totally inconsiderate.

She is probably hoping someone will clear out a press for her or make room and put them away - does she have an allocated press or has she only sommych space and knows they can not fit in there Nd so is hoping to leave them there until someone sorts it out for her? Either way it is relly unacceptable. She might feel isolated or insecure but her golden chance was to reply to your text - it would have fixed the problem easily and given her an out. As it is she now looks childish and selfish. Not a great start.

Hi, OP again. She does look childish and selfish to be honest and it hasn't been a great start. I don't get any sense of isolation or insecurity from her, she's well able to come join us downstairs when she wants to. So I don't think that was ever an issue to begin with.

For me its created an unpleasant atmosphere which is unnecessary and disappointing as the house has always been a lovely, considerate place to live. It's made worse by the fact that my other housemate, Jane, does not agree with taking the assertive route, so I do feel like I'm becoming the bitch, or being difficult, when I'm really just making a very basic request.

Airyfairy mentioned a hot press which is something I hadn't thought of but is a good idea, I had a look and there is a small amount of storage space there but should be enough to store her things. I guess it's also important to reiterate we made space for her kitchen stuff already, and she herself said when she moved in that she had amassed a lot of stuff over the years, so I don't think we've been unfair with regards to storage.

If I have to keep looking at those bags I'll go crazy so I think I'll just have to ask if she'd mind putting them in the hot press until we sort extra storage in the kitchen. It's difficult to broach seeing as my first request was ignored but the resentment is just going to build otherwise.

Thanks for the advice all - will pop back in with an update for those interested!

LegacyUser

Ok OP here (again), thanks all for listening and letting me vent.

So I said it to Sarah, as nicely as I could, that I'd noticed there is some storage space in the hot press, and would she mind storing her things in there just until we can get some extra storage space sorted in the kitchen? I also said I could give her a hand with bringing the bags upstairs.

She looked at me like I'd asked her to commit a crime. She replied "Eh..... ok...... but I mean, is it really that big of a deal having them on the table?" I replied that it's not a big deal at all it's just making the place a bit cluttered.

I reiterated we would of course make room for them by buying a trolley or stand. She replied "No it's fine, I'll just have to try get rid of them." I responded of course she doesn't have to get rid of them, that's not what I meant, and she said "No, it's fine."

It was a horrible interaction that made me feel really uneasy and I can't believe I've come out of this feeling guilty. Now it's really tense. This is actually ridiculous carry on and I'm upset now that there's going to be an unpleasant atmosphere over something so trivial.

She still hasn't moved the bags and something tells me she isn't going to.

Telly

galgal411 wrote: »

Ok OP here (again), thanks all for listening and letting me vent.

So I said it to Sarah, as nicely as I could, that I'd noticed there is some storage space in the hot press, and would she mind storing her things in there just until we can get some extra storage space sorted in the kitchen? I also said I could give her a hand with bringing the bags upstairs.

She looked at me like I'd asked her to commit a crime. She replied "Eh..... ok...... but I mean, is it really that big of a deal having them on the table?" I replied that it's not a big deal at all it's just making the place a bit cluttered.

I reiterated we would of course make room for them by buying a trolley or stand. She replied "No it's fine, I'll just have to try get rid of them." I responded of course she doesn't have to get rid of them, that's not what I meant, and she said "No, it's fine."

It was a horrible interaction that made me feel really uneasy and I can't believe I've come out of this feeling guilty. Now it's really tense. This is actually ridiculous carry on and I'm upset now that there's going to be an unpleasant atmosphere over something so trivial.

She still hasn't moved the bags and something tells me she isn't going to.

Look you've had the conversation. She doesnt give a shít otherwise she would have moved them so throw them into the hotpress and forget about it.

I'm still confused. Why is there so many utensils around?

There's 3 people. Many 3 bed homes could have 5 people in them without this issue.

Just how many spatulas do you need in a house?

Oh and how about just kicking her out?

LegacyUser

Yikes. I approached with my advice treating Sarah like a reasonable, mature, and maybe shy adult, but from your update it's not looking that way at all. How she is not embarrassed or apologetic, is just beyond me!

I had a few experiences with difficult house shares that I won't get into, and the drama was withering, so I do feel your pain. It's maddening when you're trying to sort out something so simple, and people are just refusing to be reasonable, and bizarrely at the end of it you are looking like the difficult one.

If Sarah has gathered a lot of utensils over the years, then I would assume she's not in her early twenties, and has been in house shares before, so this behaviour just shouldn't be happening.

It is a shame that Jane is burying her head in the sand, and letting the immature behaviour from Sarah continue. Personally, I'd be embarrassed and apologetic to have my stuff left in a communal area after being nicely asked twice to move it. But I'm assuming Sarah is not a very thoughtful person!

It all sounds so needlessly stressful, and please be assured, you are not being a b***h. If you were, would you really be putting in such an effort to talk to these people and resolve the issues before they fester? It sounds to me like you are tip toeing around two people who have been refusing to communicate like adults, or face up to the small issues that are already turning toxic.

A possible next step is that yourself and Jane could put together a cleaning rota shared equally between the three of you, give it to Sarah, and ask her if it suits her, so that she is included in the decision making, and isn't keeping herself at a distance from the house share. Possibly say something like sorry we took so long getting this organised, can't believe it's two months since you moved in etc. etc.

I'd forget about the trolley for now. I just can't understand how she won't put her stuff away in her room, or as suggested, into the hot press. She is doing this on purpose, but I can't fathom why. It's possible she just sees the bags as not her problem, and doesn't care they're in the way of other people. Does she come across as someone who likes to make things awkward? How has she been so far with paying her share of the bills?
Whatever her thought process is behind her current behaviour, she's coming across as a very selfish and thoughtless housemate.

Airyfairy12

galgal411 wrote: »

Ok OP here (again), thanks all for listening and letting me vent.

So I said it to Sarah, as nicely as I could, that I'd noticed there is some storage space in the hot press, and would she mind storing her things in there just until we can get some extra storage space sorted in the kitchen? I also said I could give her a hand with bringing the bags upstairs.

She looked at me like I'd asked her to commit a crime. She replied "Eh..... ok...... but I mean, is it really that big of a deal having them on the table?" I replied that it's not a big deal at all it's just making the place a bit cluttered.

I reiterated we would of course make room for them by buying a trolley or stand. She replied "No it's fine, I'll just have to try get rid of them." I responded of course she doesn't have to get rid of them, that's not what I meant, and she said "No, it's fine."

It was a horrible interaction that made me feel really uneasy and I can't believe I've come out of this feeling guilty. Now it's really tense. This is actually ridiculous carry on and I'm upset now that there's going to be an unpleasant atmosphere over something so trivial.

She still hasn't moved the bags and something tells me she isn't going to.

She's the one that should feel guilty, she's been asked twice now to move her bags from the kitchen and she's creating tension in the house over it. Very strange behaviour on her part.
This on top of all the other stuff you mentioned with not emptying the dishwasher etc and bringing a negative atmosphere into what was a nice space, it's all on her, you tried and she made it awkward. Some people are like that, they would argue with the wall and are completely unreasonable.
Dont give into her and dont let her see that her behaviour has gotten to you or that youre feeling guilty because it will only cause more friction and further make her think she's the victim and is right in this situation.

sunshinew

Well it sounds like there already is an atmosphere now so you've nothing to lose by being more assertive. When she said what's the big deal, you replied saying it isn't a big deal... But that's not the truth. They are obviously annoying you being there and now they are still there. I'm like you though, I hate confrontation and would over analyse most conversations.
I sometimes find the tone of voice you use is really important. A better response would have been to say in a really upbeat chipper voice, ah yeah, I love to eat from a nice clean table, they're driving me nuts if I'm honest, sure look I'll pop them into the hot press for now and we'll get some storage sorted soon...in a tone of voice as if you're telling an 8 year old some exciting plans for the day. It catches people off guard as you sound really cheerful so they can't really react in an angry way. (I used this approach with a really difficult boss once and it worked).
Too late for that now so at this stage I'd just move them. It doesn't bode well that she's being so difficult over something so small so early... She's testing you. If she's grumpy and snarky with you for asking, you may as well move the bags and still have her grumpy with you. The fact you feel guilty for asking such a small request makes me think you may have low self esteem and be quite sensitive. Some people are a*shoes and will walk all over you if they see they can.
Btw, are you sure she isn't using any of the utensils from the bags while she's in the kitchen? Cos I really can't get my head around why she thinks a table is a good storage space for something she doesn't need right now.

dartboardio

galgal411 wrote: »

Ok OP here (again), thanks all for listening and letting me vent.

So I said it to Sarah, as nicely as I could, that I'd noticed there is some storage space in the hot press, and would she mind storing her things in there just until we can get some extra storage space sorted in the kitchen? I also said I could give her a hand with bringing the bags upstairs.

She looked at me like I'd asked her to commit a crime. She replied "Eh..... ok...... but I mean, is it really that big of a deal having them on the table?" I replied that it's not a big deal at all it's just making the place a bit cluttered.

I reiterated we would of course make room for them by buying a trolley or stand. She replied "No it's fine, I'll just have to try get rid of them." I responded of course she doesn't have to get rid of them, that's not what I meant, and she said "No, it's fine."

It was a horrible interaction that made me feel really uneasy and I can't believe I've come out of this feeling guilty. Now it's really tense. This is actually ridiculous carry on and I'm upset now that there's going to be an unpleasant atmosphere over something so trivial.

She still hasn't moved the bags and something tells me she isn't going to.

Wow. What a ****ty response from her! Hate those type of people that play the victim when you make a basic request like that.

'do you mind moving your bags so other people in the house can use the table'

'ugh ill just get rid of them, no its fine ill get rid of them'

She sounds like a stroppy 15 year old.

Any normal person would have the bags gone a long time ago or at least said 'yeah that's perfect, sorry they were there for so long by the way!' and move on with their lives..

Op it's your house too. You've asked her twice or three times now. I suggest you place the bags in the hot press and be done with it. If she genuinely has an issue with that and gets nasty about it then she's psycho.

I would have moved them a long time ago, but now you can just stick them in the hot press, like you suggested. Job done.