Is Paddy Cosgrove the biggest wanker in Ireland?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121278873#Comment_121278873

You said Israel have not been charged with war crimes, I asked you to show where Hamas where.

If Israel has not been charged and so are innocent of the allegations, then so too are Hamas surely?

The fact is Israel have previously broken international law in the eyes of those who uphold International Law. Guess who abstained on that motion?

https://press.un.org/en/2016/sc12657.doc.htm

Mary Lou thread somewhere else thaddaway if you want to continue discussing her.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279083#Comment_121279083

Hamas are a terrorist organization ( according to our EU, and according to the USA as well ), while Israel is the most democratic country in the middle east, so the 2 are not equatable.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279228#Comment_121279228

Do you believe all war crimes should be treated equally?

Yes or no?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279228#Comment_121279228

Name a more democratic country?

CrazyEric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121278750#Comment_121278750

Everyone has now watched the video and drew their own conclusions from it as to who is responsible.

You say I am making assumptions, you present a completely different narrative on what Mary Lou said to everyone else who read it, you "assume" what she meant and even try to imply that the transcriber may be presenting it incorrectly as a defense, you used to be so much better at this Francie.

Paddy Cosgrove may lose his title. Allegedly.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279487#Comment_121279487

We’ll have to agree to disagree.

Somebody giving a speech listing of things an making a point about them isn’t that unusual.

Her point about the hospital bombing is at the end: nowhere is safe in Gaza. That could also include they are not safe for Hamas.

And I never said diddly about the transcriber being incorrect. I said you didn’t seem to realise that she didn’t arrange it in paragraphs.

Politicians don’t write up the Dàil record.

Do better yourself.

CrazyEric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279529#Comment_121279529

FRANCIE. "And I never said diddly about the transcriber being incorrect. I said you didn’t seem to realise that she didn’t arrange it in paragraphs."

CRAZYERIC " you "assume" what she meant and even try to imply that the transcriber may be presenting it incorrectly as a defense

Read carefully Francie. If you cannot understand what I said don't try and put spin on it, which is exactly what you were doing with Mary Lou's speech. I called you out for splitting the paragraph to try and make it appear that she said something different. Her point about the hospital is bang smack in the middle of the paragraph. Not at the end. you are starting to twist and turn so much you are falling over yourself.

I don't need to do better, this is too easy.

Feck off with Mary Lou , the pair of you.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279652#Comment_121279652

She spoke in sentences with points.

I quoted the sentences and points.

If she was blaming Israel she would have said it exactly as she had no problem blaming them by name for destroying the medical infrastructure.

She referenced the hospital bombing to make the point that ‘nowhere is safe in Gaza’.

If you have to infer she said something you are losing.

Good luck, only repeating ourselves here.

CrazyEric

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279799#Comment_121279799

You are not repeating yourself. You keep changing and twisting your own words. Trying to derail a thread because you don't agree with something. You have form.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279899#Comment_121279899

. No conspiracy my paranoid fellow poster.

Thread is all yours. Say what you want.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121278299#Comment_121278299

Ireland was the first country to catapult Paddy out so we have no blow back. He has openly said his money is overseas and has spent the last couple of years slagging off Ireland as corrupt to anyone that would listen.

The problem is with Portugal, they already had huge pressure during covid when Paddy was taking the circa 11m a year even when it was virtual. The population was not impressed

They have since resigned a contract with him and from the press release it would sound like they handed him over more money. What happens if people drop out in thousands?

You have to wonder why Web Summit is covering all social media with advertisements in the last few weeks if the so called claimed registrations haven't been hit. Also the comments I seen under those advertisements tells it own story

The only issue potentially it that it was clear, to me anyway, that SF had promised him something for the love in over the last few years. They picked him to try persuade the MNC's they would be good for Ireland, talk about picking the wrong person. If SF get into government now and are clearly linked with Paddy that could cause concern for the MNC's but guess work of course.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121278204#Comment_121278204

IBM are gone now as well., following the lead of Google, Meta, Stripe, Siemens, Amazon, Intel etc.

The ethics of basing a web summit in Qatar are extremely questionable - especially by Cosgrove, who has slagged off our government here as being very corrupted. He has forgotten the same government here got him on his feet in the early days with taxpayer funding of over half a million for his web summit back in 2009 as far as I remember.

I would say Cosgrove is not only the biggest wanker in Ireland, he has to be the biggest in Europe at this stage too.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279228#Comment_121279228

By definition, a terrorist organisation is committing war crimes. The deliberate targetting of civilians with no military objective, as Hamas did on October 7th is a war crime and would be sufficient in itself to have Hamas declared a terrorist organisation. That doesn't even take into account the civilian hostages that Hamas took. Israel will be about to learn what the Disappeared means.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121280086#Comment_121280086

You have identified the big issue in your last paragraph.

It is impossible to discern a difference between Clown Paddy's worldviews and those of Sinn Fein. Looking at how the multinationals have run a mile from Paddy, why on earth would we elect a Sinn Fein government?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281424#Comment_121281424

Both have been accused of war crimes by Amnesty, the WHO, Human Rights Watch and other governments.

Both are being investigated by the ICC.

And if you think only Israeli's have been 'disappeared' in the conflict/war, then you are a fairly obvious victim of Israeli propaganda and are not doing due diligence.

Whatever you think of Cosgrove, and I don't think about him much tbh, at least he stood up and was counted as a voice calling for even treatment of the two sides in the conflict/war. Same as the President and government have called for.

If multinationals want to protect profit, that is their prerogative, (and I think that is what they are doing) but if they are endorsing what is going on in the region, then multinationals are the problem.

blanch152

The most idiotic of claims around Hamas and Israel is that they should be treated the same. Clown Paddy has been at the heart of this claim and it shows a complete ignorance of international law.

https://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-state-actors-and-vs-non-state-actors/#google_vignette

State actors: They bear the legal right to use force and military power according to their wishes.

Non-state actors: They have no legal right to use military force and power as per their will, unlike the state actors.

In Ireland, we have a cohort who still try to justify the actions of the PIRA and they continuously fail to understand this distinction. By using violence, Hamas are de facto and de jure in breach of international law and are committing war crimes. For Israel, the situation is much more nuanced and tied in with the rights of a state to defend itself. How this repeatedly needs to be explained is beyond me.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281500#Comment_121281500

Just read your last 4 words, no need to read the rest. " multinationals are the problem".

There we have it folks, you have over 50,000 posts advocating and arguing the SF position. The people who pay the vast bulk of the corporation tax in the country, and who directly employ over 100,000 in well paid jobs, are the problem.

Paddy Cosgrove isn't the biggest wanker, because I'm not sure who he is... Paddy Cosgrave on the other hand is.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281527#Comment_121281527

I draw your attention to the bolded bit. You are wrong. International Law applies to both. You cannot hide behind having 'democratic legitimacy'.

The rules apply both to wars between nations and conflicts, like that between Israel and Hamas, in which one of the parties is not a state.

Another key document in the law of war is the founding Rome Statue of the International Criminal Court, which defines as war crimes acts including intentional attacks on civilians, civilian settlements or humanitarian workers, destroying property where not militarily necessary, sexual violence and unlawful deportation.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281553#Comment_121281553

Apologies, it is the more common variant in these parts. Hadn't realised I was doing that.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281546#Comment_121281546

Yes, they are, if they are trying to silence on behalf of Israel.

I don't think they are, they are simply protecting their brand and their profit as they do.

If they were working on behalf of Israel they would be leaving Ireland because our Taoiseach and President have said the exact same things as Cosgrave has said and of course as you say 'Israel see us as the most anti Israeli country in the west' too.

*Looks around - have the multinationals left? Nope, still here.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281579#Comment_121281579

Have Google, Meta, Stripe, Siemens, Amazon, Intel, IBM - the multinationals which suddenly ran a mile from Cosgrave's web summit because of his political utterances - announced any new jobs in Ireland recently, and if and when worldwide cut-backs are needed, will they be as quick to boycott Mary Lou and Michael D as they were to boycott Cosgrave? Would be surprised if not. Even you have hinted "multinationals are the problem". Not too long ago the military wing of SF were murdering and kidnapping foreign industrialists. Not everyone remembers that. I do.

Why would'nt at least some of the multinationals go to a country which is at least not perceived as being the most hostile in the western world to Israel? Would they support a government with Mary Lou / S.F. in charge - the same Mary Lou and SF who very much support the Palestinians? Who is it again who has praised Hamas in the past? Which party met Hamas and said they must NOT be demonised?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281676#Comment_121281676

Intel opens €17bn manufacturing expansion in Kildare | Independent.ie

And before you run off misquoting, I said 'multinationals are the problem IF they don't wish to see war crimes treated equally, whosoever commits them'.

I don't think that is their issue and that is why they have no issue that our government and President have said the same.

This is why I believe they pulled out of the Web Summit - brand and profit protection by not getting involved in politics within the tech industry:

 This incident highlights the sensitivity of discussing sensitive geopolitical issues within the tech industry. The withdrawal of industry giants like Google and Meta sends a strong message about maintaining neutrality and sensitivity in global conflict discussions.

Google and Meta withdraw from Web Summit after founder's remarks on Israel | Digital Watch Observatory

That was blunder Cosgrave made, involving them in politics - stupid in a business sense even if he was correct.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281812#Comment_121281812

When you are in a hole Francie, stop digging.

The multinationals say left the web summit because of political utterances from Cosgrave, and because they did not want to support him financially or by being there.

If your comrade Mary Lou was in government - and do not forget the S.F. Party has in the past met with key figures including the then-overall leader Khaled Mashal, and S.F. said Hamas must "not be demonised or excluded", do you not really think at least multinationals would want to distance them selves at least a bit from Mary Lou and her Palestinian flags?

After all, the SF party are more extreme than anything Paddy Cosgrove said or done? Poor old Paddy probably never met Hamas, and even if he did would probably never have said afterwards they must not be demonised.

Imagine a "party" saying those who kidnap and disappear others must not be demonised?

Wonder what the multinationals and the 222 Israeli hostages currently in Gaza would think of that?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281853#Comment_121281853

SF thread is that way >>>>

So can you explain why they have not left Ireland given that the President and Taoiseach are saying the exact same things as Cosgrave?

Can you explain how the 'most anti Israeli country in the west' is receiving 17bn in investment from just ONE multinational?

No, you can't with any credibility.

The credible answer is that within the tech industry they cannot be seen to have a side or to get involved in politics - the brand and the profits are much too important.

I

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121281948#Comment_121281948

If Intel is your best example, you are seriously deluded, just as your fellow SF supporter Cosgrave was deluded before he made his comments on the middle east conflict, - when he thought what he was saying would not go down badly in the boardrooms of Google, Meta, Siemens, IBM, VW, Intel, Stripe etc.

In March, Intel announced a 17 billion euro ($18.7 billion) investment to open a new chip fab in Germany, an R&D and design center in France and back-end production facilities in Spain, Ireland, Italy and Poland. Ireland is not the only European country Intel can or does invest in. Like you, Cosgrave thought the multinationals would not drop him - they did. And very very quickly. Like a hot potato.

Even if Ireland lost 50% of new investment, and 50% of the multinationals dropped supporting pro-Hamas regimes / politicians here (looking at SF, who said Hamas must not be demonised) as quickly as they dropped relatively neutral commentators like Cosgrove, would that not be an awful blow for the country?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282024#Comment_121282024

The mad thing is that in two years time, if Sinn Fein are in government, condemning Hamas for their latest artocity and promising support for the Israeli government, Francie will be here telling us that Sinn Fein were right all along.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282024#Comment_121282024

In March, Intel announced a 17 billion euro ($18.7 billion) investment to open a new chip fab in Germany, an R&D and design center in France and back-end production facilities in Spain, Ireland, Italy and Poland. Ireland is not the only European country Intel can or does invest in.

😁😁😁

You do know what 'multinational means yeh?

And if you are going to quote somebody, quote them correctly because otherwise you might be accused of fabricating quotes again. Here is what SF said:

“no Palestinian political faction or section of society should be demonised or excluded from the conflict resolution process,”

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282111#Comment_121282111

Heh heh …. Posting telling folk how to handle quotes correctly…….😂

Gave me a good laugh there in fairness.

You have been blown out of the water Francis, you are not dealing with pork chops here.

Angus beef….23 days matured, buddy.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282083#Comment_121282083

Might be too late then though. As Paddy Cosgrove found out to his cost, multi-nationals do not mess around. And unlike SF, poor old Paddy had not even (as far as I know) Palestinian flags on his website. SF still does, and tonnes of anti-Israeli propaganda on it An Phoblocht, linked on the SF website.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282291#Comment_121282291

Until it becomes an embarrassment and then they vaporize the lot... Eurasia was always at war with Eastasia.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282459#Comment_121282459

😁

The day we see multinationals eschew profit for a moral political standpoint will be quite something.

I briefly worked for one huge and famous one back in the day. Our heads were filled almost daily about their commitment to us and Ireland and all our futures together and work harder to achieve our collective goals and other US style corporate spiels.

Soon as Eastern Europe waved at them with some EU incentives (greenbacks they are called in the US) they were gone and it was f* everyone here.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282516#Comment_121282516

We saw it last week when so many businesses suddenly withdrew from the web summit, because of the political utterances of Cosgrave, who has since resigned and issued a groveling apology but that was not enough. The damage was done, and even more multinationals have withdrawn.

Not surprised the multinational you worked for left and you fell out with them, if you spent all day posting on the internet about politics!

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282583#Comment_121282583

I am spending some of the entitlements I earned with them in my retirement Francis.

You still haven't come up with an example of a multinational pulling out of a country because of the politics of the government there.

How for instance do you explain multinationals investing hugely in China? Or RUssia before it fell foul of International Law as Israel and Hamas have been accused of doing?

You can't of course.

The only credible reason is the one I posted, multi-nationals pulled out of the Web Summit because Cosgrave involved them at a tech-industry level in geo-politics, something they all believe damages their brand.

 This incident highlights the sensitivity of discussing sensitive geopolitical issues within the tech industry. The withdrawal of industry giants like Google and Meta sends a strong message about maintaining neutrality and sensitivity in global conflict discussions.

Fact is again, if Leo, the President or SF want to criticise a country the multinational will stay 'neutral' on that. As they did in Russia, when there, China, India and any other diverse country they are trading in.

The scaremongering hasn't worked up to now and won't work IMO.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282660#Comment_121282660

A lot of Americans feel quite strongly on the middle east : not surprising considering 9/11, and the fact many look on October 7th as the Israeli 9/11, only perhaps worse in that innocents were beheaded, raped in front of families, 222 were abducted ( "disappeared" in pira language). etc.

They boycotted and withdrew, at great cost and inconvenience, because of Cosgrave's comments on the conflict, which he thought were neutral but which the multinationals perceived to be anti-Israeli.

If SF were to be in power, what do you think the multinationals would make of all the Palestinian flags on the SF website, Adams meeting Hamas etc?

Given a choice of western countries to invest in, do you think they would invest in the most Anti-Israel one?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282839#Comment_121282839

You have identified many of the concerns that ordinary people have about a Sinn Fein government.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282839#Comment_121282839

I don't believe looking at how they operate in the world and where they operate that they care about the political outlook of a government. They went against the US president's criticism and invested in China for instance.

The bottom line is profit and if getting involved in a geo-politics affects that they stay away from it.

Nothing else explains their actions up to now in the world or why they remain in so many countries.

They continue to invest in diversely different political countries = fact. They are even in countries that 'many Americans' think orchestrated and trained the 9-11 bombers.

A few Palestinian flags are not going to affect that. A FG/FF government criticising Israel is not going to affect that nor is the President commenting going to.

They stay neutral on a country's political outlook. Verifiable and consistent fact.

Cosgrave involved them directly and that was his mistake. Far as I know he has no votes here nor does he seem to be interested in standing for any party.

2smiggy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058317133/hamas-strike-on-israel-threadbans-in-op-mod-warning-in-op-updated-19-10-23

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058154947/the-wondrous-adventures-of-sinn-fein-part-3-mod-notes-and-threadbanned-list-in-op

....

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283006#Comment_121283006

Is there a point in that somewhere?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282901#Comment_121282901

1. How does their (the multinationals ) investment in what you call " even in countries that 'many Americans' think orchestrated and trained the 9-11 bombers." compare to investment in friendlier countries?
2. How much manufacturing, corporation tax etc is paid by American companies in those countries? And per head of population?
3. Do you think Cosgrave, in making comments which he possibly thought were neutral but which the multinationals perceived to be anti-Israeli, got an awful shock when so many multinationals suddenly boycotted and withdrew from the Web Summit because of his comments? (We can assume he did, because he gave such a grovelling apology and resigned....but too late, the likes of Google, Intel, Siemens, VW, IBM, Meta, Stripe etc do not suffer fools gladly, be they Cosgrave, Higgins or Adams (who met Hamas etc, flies the Palestinian flag etc - much more than Cosgrove ever did).

tayto lover

I don't know much about Paddy Cosgrave but he was correct on the war crimes issue. Hamas and Israel operate in the same way. Neither are right and lives are more important than jobs or governments.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283211#Comment_121283211

You said "Hamas and Israel operate in the same way." It seems you not only do not know much about Paddy Cosgrave ( which you admit) but also about Hamas / Israel.

Hamas is a terrorist organization, and is seen and defined as such by both the EU and USA. In its recent invasion in to Israel it murdered, beheaded, raped minors in front of families, burnt babies , beheaded people etc, and kidnapped 222 people.

Israel, though not perfect, (what country is?) is the most democratic country in the middle east. Hamas wants to wipe it off the earth. Go figure.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283196#Comment_121283196

In the history of global corporations they have routinely invested in diversely different countries with different political outlooks and concerns.

There is zero evidence that suggests profit and brand will come before anything else.

The 'level' of their investment will always be related to the level of their activity and the ease of trading their global position gives them. It is that access that has them in Ireland as well as our tax rates.

None of the corporations I have seen comment have made any reference to 'anti-Israeli' comments. You seem to have fabricated that. Could you back that up?

They have commented on the political nature of the comment which was anti - Western countries not treating all war crimes the same.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283248#Comment_121283248

5000 dead already,

https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/10/1142687#:~:text=The%20number%20of%20people%20killed,ceasefire%20and%20more%20aid%20convoys.

222 children in 24 hours.

Israel, 'not perfect'?????

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283291#Comment_121283291

Again you have not answered the questions, you try to deflect. Do try harder.

1. How does their (the multinationals ) investment in what you call " even in countries that 'many Americans' think orchestrated and trained the 9-11 bombers." compare to investment in friendlier countries?
2. How much manufacturing, corporation tax etc is paid by American companies in those countries? And per head of population?
3. Do you think Cosgrave, in making comments which he possibly thought were neutral but which the multinationals perceived to be anti-Israeli, got an awful shock when so many multinationals suddenly boycotted and withdrew from the Web Summit because of his comments? (We can assume he did, because he gave such a grovelling apology and resigned....but too late, the likes of Google, Intel, Siemens, VW, IBM, Meta, Stripe etc do not suffer fools gladly, be they Cosgrave, Higgins or Adams (who met Hamas etc, flies the Palestinian flag etc - much more than Cosgrove ever did).

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121279276#Comment_121279276

In Lebanon I believe every citizen has a vote. In Israel 5 million Palestinians dont have a vote in the Israeli parliament. As Palestine is not independent then they should have representation in the Israeli parliament.

CGI_Livia_Soprano

What does Israel and Hamas have to do with Paddy Cosgrave??

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283339#Comment_121283339

Have you been under a rock for the past few weeks?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283314#Comment_121283314

I don't have that information and it wasn't the point.

Look, you live with the fear corporations will depart if Leo and the President don't stop criticising Israel or if SF get into power. That's your choice. There is zero evidence to back that up if you look at the world with open eyes.

Nothing is going to change your mind. Done with you on this point.