Gareth O'Callaghan nails what many of us are thinking...

swampgas

paw patrol wrote: »

they will be able to inspect you at any time to see that you are compliant.
That is mental that you think that is ok and reasonable behaviour in a (so called) free society>

I understand (and share) the concern, but as long as this is time limited and subject to oversight, I think it is reasonable during a pandemic. Not anytime else.

drunkmonkey

swampgas wrote: »

I understand (and share) the concern, but as long as this is time limited and subject to oversight, I think it is reasonable during a pandemic. Not anytime else.

There's a million and 1 powers the guards could ask for, are guards even asking for this power, or is it the government trying to create an atmosphere of fear.
Like anything the government have legislated for so far it needs to be fact based and provide a suggested outcome. Which it hasn't.
If we give the guards this power we should see a transmission rate reduction of X in X amount of weeks.
Mandatory masks should have been held to the same pillar.

3xh

xhomelezz wrote: »

Ah ok, no more vaccine for me ever, thanks to this breathtaking post.

The crux being and I suspect you know this yourself, the more well known vaccines are tried and tested over many many years. Like MMR, polio, diphtheria, etc.

This Covid vaccine is, assuming it really hasn’t been developed yet, being rushed out.

Would you like some narcolepsy, xhomelezz? You’ll only have to give up your job and driving licence among a few other small things in life.

Ultimately, this sums up my point in all this Covid drama. You do what you want to do. Stay indoors, wear your mask everywhere, demand more restrictions from the Government, be first in the queue for the jab because you choose to. Let me get back to work to pay for it all.

But I’ll say this, each of the 3 examples I quoted affected children. Those children did not make that decision themselves. Adults did. Both the researchers who made and sold the drugs and the parents who listened to ‘best practice’ because they didn’t know any better.

As a parent, it’s incumbent upon me to keep asking questions of these companies, politicians, vested interests. I owe it to my children. Maybe you have the luxury of being young, free and single.

SeaBreezes

paw patrol wrote: »

i was there . I was there only for the masks/restrictions , i'd no interest in any other agenda.
Any protest will bring people with different agendas and that's just how it is .

I'm protesting because of the infringement on our civil liberties primarily.
The recent decision that a garda can enter my house on their opinion that i've a few lads over is frightening. That's real police state stuff and if you don't see that then that's really weird. If your personal freedoms don't matter to you - that's fine but they are important to me.


I also don't believe the numbers and severity of the illness warrant the enforcement of lockdowns and restriction

Your beliefs could kill people.
You can believe what you like at home. In public mask up. Or you can isolate your non masked face at home.No worries.


Now, tell me what law was changed to allow gardai stop a house party has changed?

Cause over 20 years ago at a college house party guards called and entered the house and asked us to tone it down. Needless to.say party.was over then.

So, how have the laws changed please?
Or is this something you heard on facebook?

Wibbs

ChikiChiki wrote: »

On the face of it, I can only surmise that many of these people are developing mental health problems and heightened anxiety due to being out of work or whatever with the pandemic and using it to as a channel to vent their anger.

Its a worrying trend. Some of these people I would never of previously for a moment put in the same bucket as Gemma O'Doherty.

There's a lot of that going on alright C. I would say that in normal times many, if not most adults with jobs, families and financial responsibilities are running ragged much of the time, settled for the want of a better word in a routine they've established with little left over to apply critical thinking on top of all that. They have neither the time nor the energy left to do so.

Along comes an emergency like this and their routine is fundamentally altered. In lockdown they're together all the time as a couple for a start, whereas before they might only see each other in the mornings and evenings and the weekends. That alone can lead to problems. Then they have their kids with them all the time. More problems. Then they're bloody understandably worried about their kid's futures. They're worried about aged rellies if they have any around. Then they're worried about the financial mess building up week on week, month on month as the bills keep coming in or are IOU'd into the future, but will still need paying. They're missing the social interactions outside the home with work etc. Never mind the restrictions on what had been ways of blowing off steam like having a meal or a pint or a holiday. Then the government rules which seem to change with the wind and are regularly extremely contradictory. Masks an obvious one there. Utterly pointless a couple of months ago unless you were a medical worker or someone already sick(contradictory in of itself), now the Great White Hope(and I've been in favour of them since the get go and still am).

No wonder people are feeling the strain. I'm surprised more aren't, or visibly so. Yet. And it's no wonder people just don't have any overhead left to process new information beyond what was their routine, a routine now in tatters.

Along comes someone on arsebook or twatter or wherever and feeds info like it's all a conspiracy, we don't need to worry etc. Basically offering people their old lives and routines back in easily digestible chunks and seemingly more sure than the authorities. No wonder people are buying into it.

No doubt I would too in their position. As a guy without kids and a wife, no mortgage, no loans and a job ticking over and even if it wasn't I'd need little enough money to live, I can afford to give over some brainspace to some critical thinking. I have that luxury. Few enough do, certainly outside of childhood and students and the young and they're being hammered by this crisis too.

growleaves

A guilt trip, an appeal to the emotions, recriminations against 'conspiracy theorists' etc., etc. It leaves me cold because every important issue in my lifetime has been dealt with in this way, either the people making the objection are belittled "Who are these weirdos opposing the Nice Treaty?" or a tidal wave of emotion is unleashed "Savita was murdered!" and I've seen so many variations on this time after time. No surprise that even scientific matters are dealt with this way since everything else is.

i_surge

Wibbs wrote: »

There's a lot of that going on alright C. I would say that in normal times many, if not most adults with jobs, families and financial responsibilities are running ragged much of the time, settled for the want of a better word in a routine they've established with little left over to apply critical thinking on top of all that. They have neither the time nor the energy left to do so.

Along comes an emergency like this and their routine is fundamentally altered. In lockdown they're together all the time as a couple for a start, whereas before they might only see each other in the mornings and evenings and the weekends. That alone can lead to problems. Then they have their kids with them all the time. More problems. Then they're bloody understandably worried about their kid's futures. They're worried about aged rellies if they have any around. Then they're worried about the financial mess building up week on week, month on month as the bills keep coming in or are IOU'd into the future, but will still need paying. They're missing the social interactions outside the home with work etc. Never mind the restrictions on what had been ways of blowing off steam like having a meal or a pint or a holiday. Then the government rules which seem to change with the wind and are regularly extremely contradictory. Masks an obvious one there. Utterly pointless a couple of months ago unless you were a medical worker or someone already sick(contradictory in of itself), now the Great White Hope(and I've been in favour of them since the get go and still am).

No wonder people are feeling the strain. I'm surprised more aren't, or visibly so. Yet. And it's no wonder people just don't have any overhead left to process new information beyond what was their routine, a routine now in tatters.

Along comes someone on arsebook or twatter or wherever and feeds info like it's all a conspiracy, we don't need to worry etc. Basically offering people their old lives and routines back in easily digestible chunks and seemingly more sure than the authorities. No wonder people are buying into it.

No doubt I would too in their position. As a guy without kids and a wife, no mortgage, no loans and a job ticking over and even if it wasn't I'd need little enough money to live, I can afford to give over some brainspace to some critical thinking. I have that luxury. Few enough do, certainly outside of childhood and students and the young and they're being hammered by this crisis too.

Best to keep busy.

Time to think is dangerous for some.

owlbethere

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The bad will now be drowning out the good I'm afraid from now on. There was a novelty in it really on, but that has gone.

As we face into winter there is nothing but bleakness on the horizon. This is the push back against this.

That said, if this is the response to covid who's will be a relatively short term adjustment, I cannot see how societies are going to cope with the massive changes being planned to deal with climate change.

Winter does have the potential to be depressing but it will be what you make of it. Start planning for the winter now. If there's not her lockdown - maybe get some activities in if you can.

I think you are spot on and you touched on something very important g climate change. We have some guidelines now to curb the spread of the virus and some people are just too greedy and selfish to slow down. I'm astonished at how weak some people are with the guidelines. We haven't seen anything yet. As you say, we will have climate change and many people will have to adapt. We also h e another mess in the making and that's bacterial infections and antibiotic resistance. That's a ticking time bomb and I don't know how that will be addressed.

Uriel.

paw patrol wrote: »

i hate this attitude.
It's my house not theirs nor the state's. The gardai shouldn't own you to the extent they can come in just cos "they think" something. All citizens should be entitled to some privacy.

And if you argue covid19 supercedes that , then you are arguing the standards we apply to our society never mattered (ever) if they can be removed cos it's a unprecedented period.

At least getting a warrant shows some degree of evidence rather than a garda having a suspicion. if you don't think these new power can be mis-used then you should check Ireland's recent garda history -- Garda McCabe and Donegal are 2 examples that spring to mind.

Suppose you'd let them read your email too? if they asked :rolleyes:

I've loads of privacy. I'm living in Ireland almost 37 years and I've only ever once had a Garda in my house and that was to take fingerprints and other investigatory work following a break in.
As such I've had no issue with preserving my privacy from the gardaí or anyone else. I don't see that changing any time soon either.

CalamariFritti

pjohnson wrote: »

Do you often have Gardai ask to read your emails?

What is wrong with you eh?

You did the same to me the other day. You think you're some kind of Clint Eastwood character?

In the non Clint Eastwood character world perfectly normal and non criminal people are against Gardaí super powers, yes. Deal with it.

Uriel.

CalamariFritti wrote: »

What is wrong with you eh?

You did the same to me the other day. You think you're some kind of Clint Eastwood character?

In the non Clint Eastwood character world perfectly normal and non criminal people are against Gardaí super powers, yes. Deal with it.

Is that like inspector gadget style stuff?

Seth Brundle

3xh wrote: »

This Covid vaccine is, assuming it really hasn’t been developed yet, being rushed out.

Currently there is no vaccine available. Once one has been developed it will be thoroughly tested following international standards. In all likelihood, it will be another year at the earliest before it’s ready
Yet you reckon I is being rushed out. :rolleyes:

3xh wrote: »

Would you like some narcolepsy, xhomelezz? You’ll only have to give up your job and driving licence among a few other small things in life.

Ultimately, this sums up my point in all this Covid drama. You do what you want to do. Stay indoors, wear your mask everywhere, demand more restrictions from the Government, be first in the queue for the jab because you choose to. Let me get back to work to pay for it all.

But I’ll say this, each of the 3 examples I quoted affected children. Those children did not make that decision themselves. Adults did. Both the researchers who made and sold the drugs and the parents who listened to ‘best practice’ because they didn’t know any better.

As a parent, it’s incumbent upon me to keep asking questions of these companies, politicians, vested interests. I owe it to my children. Maybe you have the luxury of being young, free and single.

Oh for jaysus sake, would you stop?

4068ac1elhodqr

3xh wrote: »

Oh give over. Research H1N1 (a coronavirus) and its vaccine, Pandemrix*. It was developed by GSK who are also developing these fast-tracked Covid vaccines.

*Hadn't heard of this before, there is a claim that around one in every 55,000 jabs led to narcolepsy for under 18's.

https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/19/swine-flu-vaccine-narcolepsy-uk

Bit of a grey area, as the condition might have various levels of severity or sources. Only the most severe cases might see a payout, if it can be directly linked (hence there was a legal case for a subject in the above link).

Finland reported 1 / 18,400 in under 18s.
https://www.statnews.com/2018/07/05/flu-vaccine-2009-pandemic-narcolepsy/
Difficult to know if there was an artificial spike (if you look hard for something with a magnifyglass, you'll find and diagnose it quicker, than without).

3xh

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Currently there is no vaccine available. Once one has been developed it will be thoroughly tested following international standards. In all likelihood, it will be another year at the earliest before it’s ready
Yet you reckon I is being rushed out. :rolleyes:


Oh for jaysus sake, would you stop?

Stop what? You didn’t think of all the other industry mishaps over the years?! Or you didn’t know of them? You’re hardly denying they happened so I’ll take it you agree they happened after pharmaceutical companies messed up.

How do you think the parents of the kids who have narcolepsy felt when the fact of the situation now facing them dawned on them? All because they were urged to get the Pandemrix vaccine at the time by people who had their welfare at heart.

Honest question, were you old enough to fully remember the whole Bird Flu -> Swine Flu period?

And as for, ‘......thoroughly tested following international standards‘ Hah! Goodnight, Bill!

3xh

Sarah Crooked Ladyfinger wrote: »

*Hadn't heard of this before, there is a claim that around one in every 55,000 jabs led to narcolepsy for under 18's.

https://www.narcolepsy.org.uk/resources/pandemrix-narcolepsy
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/19/swine-flu-vaccine-narcolepsy-uk

Bit of a grey area, as the condition might have various levels of severity or sources. Only the most severe cases might see a payout, if it can be directly linked (hence there was a legal case for a subject in the above link).

Finland reported 1 / 18,400 in under 18s.
https://www.statnews.com/2018/07/05/flu-vaccine-2009-pandemic-narcolepsy/
Difficult to know if there was an artificial spike (if you look hard for something with a magnifyglass, you'll find and diagnose it quicker, than without).

I won’t delve deep into these links now. Suffice to say, I’ve researched it enough at this point.

I had a child at the time and a second baby on the way during the H1N1 stuff. I remember the push by both the media and the hospital to have pregnant women take it. She didn’t. She just took normal pregnancy precautions.

So when I heard of the trend come out shortly after, I followed it closely as a result.

Whatever about some indications pointing towards possible ‘false positives’ of vaccine related narcolepsy shall we say, both the researchers and their industry peers as well as the pharmaceutical industry have agreed and acknowledged the connection to be genuine.

As a said, it was GSK. Who are in the race for a Covid vaccine also.

And funnily enough, I see Primodos is in the news again only today and the long and difficult road for victims to get help and recognition from the industry and the pharmaceutical companies involved.

For the vast majority of people, Covid is nothing but a hiccup. Just do you your own research and weigh up your own risks and awards over all this lockdown, masks, vaccines, etc.

Strumms

The vaccine, say for arguments sake is first developed in Atlanta, Georgia, USA...

It has to go to the FDA ( Food and Drug Administration ) for testing / approval.

To be made available here it has to in addition meet rigorous testing here from the Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA) (formally the Irish Medicines Board) before a single person can take the vaccine.

So it’s minimal beyond minuscule the chance that a vaccine will reach approval without being 10000% safe, just not happening.

Are we all just looking for reasons to scaremonger ?

Seth Brundle

Strumms wrote: »

Are we all just looking for reasons to scaremonger ?

Who needs reasons when you have the likes of Facebook to help propagate the anti-vaccine s***e?

4068ac1elhodqr

Strumms wrote: »

The vaccine, say for arguments sake is first developed in Atlanta, Georgia, USA...

It has to go to the FDA ( Food and Drug Administration ) for testing / approval.

To be made available here it has to in addition meet rigorous testing here from the Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA) (formally the Irish Medicines Board) before a single person can take the vaccine.

So it’s minimal beyond minuscule the chance that a vaccine will reach approval without being 10000% safe, just not happening.

Are we all just looking for reasons to scaremonger ?

As Gates himself stated, this particular vaccine (to reach 7bn within 18mths approx), will need to expedite the normal Phases, and expedite the normal drug approval procedures.

See diagram:
https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/What-you-need-to-know-about-the-COVID-19-vaccine

'Emergency Licencing' is the keyword.



Gates also mentioned months ago, this may be a multi-stage vaccine, meaning you'll need more than a single go at it.

However he also stated just days ago, that if only 30-60% get it, then it could well stop.
https://www.jpost.com/health-science/bill-gates-if-only-30-percent-of-us-is-vaccinated-covid-19-could-stop-639153
This is different from what he previous stated, in regards to 7bn 1st stage doses (for every person on the planet).

3xh

Strumms wrote: »

The vaccine, say for arguments sake is first developed in Atlanta, Georgia, USA...

It has to go to the FDA ( Food and Drug Administration ) for testing / approval.

To be made available here it has to in addition meet rigorous testing here from the Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA) (formally the Irish Medicines Board) before a single person can take the vaccine.

So it’s minimal beyond minuscule the chance that a vaccine will reach approval without being 10000% safe, just not happening.

Are we all just looking for reasons to scaremonger ?

After reading this link https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/What-you-need-to-know-about-the-COVID-19-vaccine in a different thread, I came across your post. So I went back to get the link to the words from Bill Gates himself and by the time I returned, another poster responded with same!

You should really read this piece by Bill Gates. He admits the normal research process won’t be followed this time for Covid.

Are we all just looking for reasons to mislead people?

Hego Damask

Did he say the same about the BLM protests ?

Like **** he did !!!

Hego Damask

Deleted User wrote: »

That OP is full of the kind of nonsense, fear and hysteria that has led us to this point.

The death rate of Covid in Ireland is tiny. Only 1777 "deaths". Factor in that the government have openly admitted to overstating the deaths by a lot. And lots of the deaths are people that died WITH Covid as opposed to OF Covid.

Perhaps we should act like grown ups and accept that some people will get sick and some people might die. The same way lots of other illnesses kill people each year.

Time to get back to work while there is still an economy left to salvage.

Exactly, remember it's ok to die of the flu or pneumonia but not of covid ...

MrMusician18

3xh wrote: »

I won’t delve deep into these links now. Suffice to say, I’ve researched it enough at this point.

I had a child at the time and a second baby on the way during the H1N1 stuff. I remember the push by both the media and the hospital to have pregnant women take it. She didn’t. She just took normal pregnancy precautions.

So when I heard of the trend come out shortly after, I followed it closely as a result.

Whatever about some indications pointing towards possible ‘false positives’ of vaccine related narcolepsy shall we say, both the Report’s researchers and their industry peers as well as the pharmaceutical industry have agreed and acknowledged the connection to be genuine.

As a said, it was GSK. Who are in the race for a Covid vaccine also.

And funnily enough, I see Primodos is in the news again only today and the long and difficult road for victims to get help and recognition from the industry and the pharmaceutical companies involved.

For the vast majority of people, Covid is nothing but a hiccup. Just do you your own research and weigh up your own risks and awards over all this lockdown, masks, vaccines, etc.

So take your chances with a disease that kills 1 in 100 over a vaccine (if similar to H1N1) that had negative side effects for 1 in 55000.

Right.

Psychiatric Patrick

I heard about the on the radio and assumed it was just a dozen or so idiots.

Saw the photos and I'm unable to get annoyed or be surprised at thicks anymore

4068ac1elhodqr

MrMusician18 wrote: »

So take your chances with a disease that kills 1 in 100 over a vaccine (if similar to H1N1) that had negative side effects for 1 in 55000.
Right.

These stats were for under 18's only (not sure why, that's what they used anyway) 1/55k for the Uk, Finland 1/18,400, Sweden circa 1/33k.
COVID for under 18's is deemed a very low risk indeed.

This will be more rushed than H1N1 also (see above).

But if you're 55+ with 1 leg, obeses, diabaties, circulation issues, dodgy ticker, heavy smoker or boozer etc, certainly do get it asap, or indeed sign up for some random trial to get it faster than anyone else.

feargale

paw patrol wrote: »

i was there . I was there only for the masks/restrictions , i'd no interest in any other agenda.
Any protest will bring people with different agendas and that's just how it is .

I don't know of O'Callaghans previous but we can see people like jedward (I know they aren't the greatest example but their stance was highlighted so it's a good example in that way) slammed the march yet went to the BLM march. These idiots justified it cos their concern mattered but the concerns they don't agree with don't matter.

I'm protesting because of the infringement on our civil liberties primarily.
The recent decision that a garda can enter my house on their opinion that i've a few lads over is frightening. That's real police state stuff and if you don't see that then that's really weird. If your personal freedoms don't matter to you - that's fine but they are important to me.


I also don't believe the numbers and severity of the illness warrant the enforcement of lockdowns and restrictions.
If you want restrictions that is fine. We can do like Japan - which has had similar restrictions to ours but they aren't law nor mandatory but guidelines. But that isn't what is here in ireland.

For people giving out about protestors (like me).
What is your red line from the government?
When will you say , that the restrictions have gone too far?

Chances are when you finally think that , it will probably be too late to reverse.

BLM marchers were wrong to come out. Therefore I should balance that by protesting against masks while not wearing one. Exquisite logic :rolleyes:

Those pesky guards infringe on my civil liberties every day. They won't allow me cycle my bike in the middle of the road

My personal freedoms and civil liberties will be a fat lot of use to me when I'm dead.

Danno

The most interesting thing I see about GOC's postings is; fair play to him he criticised the BLM protests too - albeit in a much nicer way. That post got 3.4k likes, 737 comments and ~1k shares.

Yesterday's post got 22k likes, 6.1k comments and ~13k shares.

Both protests were equally risky with regard to covid, however the politics of it all plays out and it is plain to see.

i_surge

Strumms wrote: »

The vaccine, say for arguments sake is first developed in Atlanta, Georgia, USA...

It has to go to the FDA ( Food and Drug Administration ) for testing / approval.

To be made available here it has to in addition meet rigorous testing here from the Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA) (formally the Irish Medicines Board) before a single person can take the vaccine.

So it’s minimal beyond minuscule the chance that a vaccine will reach approval without being 10000% safe, just not happening.

Are we all just looking for reasons to scaremonger ?

As if a lot of clout and expediency won't be involved in the decision making. :rolleyes:

They could be good honest scientists but that would surprise me in this case, given the motivations and pressures.

i_surge

MrMusician18 wrote: »

So take your chances with a disease that kills 1 in 100 over a vaccine (if similar to H1N1) that had negative side effects for 1 in 55000.

Right.

We don't know the probability of side effects, you can't foretell the future by referencing the past.

Age will be a big factor in that decision.

i_surge

Sarah Crooked Ladyfinger wrote: »

As Gates himself stated, this particular vaccine (to reach 7bn within 18mths approx), will need to expedite the normal Phases, and expedite the normal drug approval procedures.

See diagram:
https://www.gatesnotes.com/Health/What-you-need-to-know-about-the-COVID-19-vaccine

'Emergency Licencing' is the keyword.



Gates also mentioned months ago, this may be a multi-stage vaccine, meaning you'll need more than a single go at it.

However he also stated just days ago, that if only 30-60% get it, then it could well stop.
https://www.jpost.com/health-science/bill-gates-if-only-30-percent-of-us-is-vaccinated-covid-19-could-stop-639153
This is different from what he previous stated, in regards to 7bn 1st stage doses (for every person on the planet).

Notice how it is planned to launch into making it before the trials conclude, huge motivation for those trials to then "succeed".

Scuid Mhór

These protestors should be listed and booked - if they come down with the virus, they shouldn't be afforded medical care if it means someone else won't get their ICU bed. See how convicted they'll be in their beliefs if they face actual repercussions. (Obviously this won't be enough to save their family, relatives, or just the welfare of random people that they negligently interact with in daily life but it's a start.) If this is how they choose to respond to society in times of crisis, then society needs to respond to them and take no prisoners in the process.