Mil is a wagon and is destroying me and fiancé's life

TheBoyConor

If this is the state of things before ye marry, then what is it going to be like after?

The reality is, things only get worse not better after a couple marry. When did you ever hear a couple say that their relationsip improved dramatically after their marriage?

I think things get worse because after marriage the view is taken that, well we are irrevocably manacled together now, I have them, they will have no choice but to accept more demands because the option of backing out has a lot more consequences.

Op, as the saying goes, i think the writing is on the wall here.....
Take the necessary steps.

LegacyUser

My only suggestion is that you and your fiance need to be on the same page when dealing with MIL and presenting a united front. Whether its about where to live or whatever else comes up, and trust me, a lot comes up in life. You are together and your decisions are made together. Leave and cleave as they say.

If your MIL is used to getting her own way and controlling your fiance then she might find this quite hard but you are both in for a very tough time if your fiance is forever bowing to the MIL's demands.

Tork

There are two things going on here. The location for where you're planning to live and your fiancee's relationship with her mother.

On the where to live bit, it's a no-brainer that you need to live somewhere that you're both happy with and is as near to Dublin/hospitals as possible.

Your fiancee's relationship with her mother is a much more problematic issue. I fear that unless she learns how to deal with her in a better way than she is, the MIL will poison your marriage and possibly bring it to an end. She has to acknowledge that there is a problem though and work out what to do next. Maybe the damage is so deep, she needs to get some professional help. I've seen this book recommended here a few times (Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life by Susan Forward) and maybe that's a good place to start. Maybe you should read it yourself first to understand better what's going on here.

listermint

One thing's for sure and it's common in personal forum. You only hear one version of events.a

Someone standing at the side of these interactions may be entirely different.

One person's emotionally abusive is another person's slightly over helpful interference.

We don't know what the mothers interactions are like at all. She may have no ill feeling and just brining up ways for you guys to get a house of which you can't right now as you said yourself in Dublin. I mean there's perception and reality. Often taking a few steps back and rationalising conversations is more appropriate than wilfully jumping into responses. Humans are often emotional and not often rationale. I suspect alot of this to be the case here.

micah537

Couples counseling might help air out a lot of problems for ye. Sometimes talks at home can go ultra defensive/offensive and rash decisions are made.


At the end of the day, it should be a couple against the world not against each other.

Milsawagon

listermint wrote: »

One thing's for sure and it's common in personal forum. You only hear one version of events.a

Someone standing at the side of these interactions may be entirely different.

One person's emotionally abusive is another person's slightly over helpful interference.

We don't know what the mothers interactions are like at all. She may have no ill feeling and just brining up ways for you guys to get a house of which you can't right now as you said yourself in Dublin. I mean there's perception and reality. Often taking a few steps back and rationalising conversations is more appropriate than wilfully jumping into responses. Humans are often emotional and not often rationale. I suspect alot of this to be the case here.

Yes I understand that but my OH agrees with my description of her mother so it's not just me

As another poster said the writings on the wall, I'm going to consider ending this relationship

TheBoyConor

If you are planning a wedding, and you have having to think about and re-consider whether to go ahead with it, then that fact in itself is very much a "keep out" sign and is more than enough justification to not proceed with marriage and terminate the relationship.

A marriage is not something to go into with doubts. If you have doubts, then that is a sign that you should not proceed. And you very clearly have doubts. Great big doubts with flashing lights and blaring sirens on them.

Milsawagon

TheBoyConor wrote: »

If you are planning a wedding, and you have having to think about and re-consider whether to go ahead with it, then that fact in itself is very much a "keep out" sign and is more than enough justification to not proceed with marriage and terminate the relationship.

A marriage is not something to go into with doubts. If you have doubts, then that is a sign that you should not proceed. And you very clearly have doubts. Great big doubts with flashing lights and blaring sirens on them.

But I love this woman with all my heart, how do I proceed?

Tork

So if you love her with all your heart, why are you thinking about ending the relationship?

TheBoyConor

You just have to have a discussion with her and tell her that, due to the circumstances and the lack of the agreement being made and upheld and your wishes and concerns not being respected, both by her and her mother, that you have lost confidence in the relationship and that you cannot, in good conscience, enter into a massive, life altering and lifelong marriage with her. Tell her you are not confident that it is going to work out and that you fear that the situation could deteriorate even further after the marriage is sealed.
Tell her that you need to put yourself first because of the health issues, which you are perfectly entitled and right to do. You need to take care of your health. Nobody is going to thank you in years to come for sacrificing your health for them.

It is not going to be easy, but the sooner you grasp the nettle and get it done, the sooner everyone will move on. It will be a difficult and upsetting time.

So if you love her with all your heart, why are you thinking about ending the relationship?

Because there is a dealbreaker and the gravity of his healthcare needs is not being respected by the partner and her mother.

Maybe I am set in my ways, but there is no way I could tolerate my life being dictated, persuaded and coerced in the manner that the partner and her mother jointly are doing to op, even if they are unwittingly doing it.

Make no mistake about it, when a marriage goes down the pan, on average the man ends up in a far worse position than the woman. I doubt the OP wants the hassle and stress of a divorce thrown on top of all the healthcare issues he already has to deal with where he already has to row against the tide it seems.

Tork

You are also a poster who has openly admitted to having a jaundiced view of relationships and no longer wants anything but casual flings in your own life.

Pawwed Rig

Milsawagon wrote: »

But I love this woman with all my heart, how do I proceed?

Pull your horns in a bit. You need to talk to her before making any decisions. Any decisions you do make should be thought about over a longer period than 24 hours

freshpopcorn

I am a little lost in one area. How persistent has the mother in law to be about you moving near her?
Lot's of mothers want their kid to live near them and they might express this to them but they general understand or get over it when their kid moves somewhere else.

woodchuck

Milsawagon wrote: »

I love this woman with my heart and I want to spend the rest of my days with her

Milsawagon wrote: »

As another poster said the writings on the wall, I'm going to consider ending this relationship

OP you seem really confused here.

Do you love your fiance enough to work through the issues? If so, then I would strongly recommend couples counselling as it sounds like you have issues communicating with each other. So a counselor might be able to facilitate some sort of meaningful discussions between you both.

It really would be a shame to throw away a relationship with a woman who you say you love with all of your heart, just because her mother is causing issues. If her mother wasn't an issue, would you be questioning the relationship at all? I'm guessing not.

TheBoyConor

Tork wrote: »

You are also a poster who has openly admitted to having a jaundiced view of relationships and no longer wants anything but casual flings in your own life.

I am a realist. I have seen far too many good men, and women, emotionally destroyed by the attrition and eventual implosion of an ill advised and unwanted marriage. There are plenty of stories in this thread alone about such situations.

Milsawagon

woodchuck wrote: »

OP you seem really confused here.

Do you love your fiance enough to work through the issues? If so, then I would strongly recommend couples counselling as it sounds like you have issues communicating with each other. So a counselor might be able to facilitate some sort of meaningful discussions between you both.

It really would be a shame to throw away a relationship with a woman who you say you love with all of your heart, just because her mother is causing issues. If her mother wasn't an issue, would you be questioning the relationship at all? I'm guessing not.

No you're correct, if the mother was out of the picture I would not be questioning it at all, not one bit

Milsawagon

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I am a little lost in one area. How persistent has the mother in law to be about you moving near her?
Lot's of mothers want their kid to live near them and they might express this to them but they general understand or get over it when their kid moves somewhere else.

Very. Turning on the tears. I wouldn't have an issue but there's no fcuking jobs for me outside of Dublin nevermind the back arse of nowhere

Tork

So why are you thinking about breaking up with the woman you want to marry if there's a possibility the situation with her mother can be resolved? Are you normally prone to making rash decisions?

What isn't clear in all of this is what steps you and your fiancee have taken to try and deal with her relationship with her mother. Does she acknowledge there is a problem? Has she told you what she'd like? Does she recognise that her mother is a threat to you as a couple? She is strangely absent from this thread, even though she is the person who is the buffer between you and the MiL.

Tork

Milsawagon wrote: »

Very. Turning on the tears. I wouldn't have an issue but there's no fcuking jobs for me outside of Dublin nevermind the back arse of nowhere

Using heated language like this isn't going to help anybody. Especially if this is the way you communicate with your fiancee. You seem to be a bit hot-headed.

Milsawagon

Tork wrote: »

Using heated language like this isn't going to help anybody. Especially if this is the way you communicate with your fiancee. You seem to be a bit hot-headed.

I'm just exhausted and can't think straight

Tork

If you are, then now is not the time to be having serious conversations with her.

TheBoyConor

Sorry to hear that it is stressing you out so much.

A relationship should not be such hard work and a source of stress and hassle.

Only my opinion, but a relationship that put this sort of stress on me, I could not tolerate it.

woodchuck

Milsawagon wrote: »

I'm just exhausted and can't think straight

So maybe take a step back to calm down a bit. You could suggest to your fiance that you both have a nice night in tonight - order a takeaway, crack open a bottle of wine and chill with a movie. Decompress a bit. Make it a night where you don't talk about her mother, just enjoy each others company.

Then maybe tomorrow or in a couple of days, whenever you're thinking more rationally, have a reasonable conversation with your fiance about the issue (no name calling, cursing, ultimatums etc). Figure out how you're both going to deal with the situation as a couple. Just bare in mind that she is her mother though. Don't come out guns a blazing when you're talking about her. Agree about where you want to live together and how to deal with her mother in the future. For example, spending weekends away at her house as a couple sounds like it's probably a bad idea!

OP im finding it very hard to see what the mil is doing that you and yr partner cannot just nod along to and forget the minute you leave the house

unless its behaviour *far* worse than you are describing so far then your mil is not a problem here from anything youve said

you need to focus on what the problem is between you and your partner- what exactly is she pushing for in your living arrangements, where is the problem between this and what you want, and what issues have arisen when ye two try to solve that gap

you keeping on about a mil without actually setting out anything other than normal parental behaviour isnt really giving us anything to go on advice wise beyond that

woodchuck

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Sorry to hear that it is stressing you out so much.

A relationship should not be such hard work and a source of stress and hassle.

Only my opinion, but a relationship that put this sort of stress on me, I could not tolerate it.

Relationships can be hard work. Obviously you shouldn't expect them to be hard work all the time and the good times should outweigh the bad though.

OP you shouldn't throw in the towel at the first sign of trouble. You owe it to herself and your fiance to try to work things out before giving up.

TheBoyConor

It doesn't sound like a situation where they can agree and all be happy with the terms. Someone is going to be discommoded.

I think the only winning strategy to these things is to not play the game.

Hannibal_Smith

Your fiance agrees with your description of her mother and yourself and your fiance have agreed to live in a nearby town... What has your fiance done wrong that is causing you to end the relationship?

Your fiance has a mother on one side laying guilt trips on her and a fiance on the other side who is threatening to break up with her even though she's already compromised between you both that a move to a nearby town is the solution.

What more can she do?

LegacyUser

You're in a confusing situation, and it's hard when someone outside of a relationship is making everything all about them. A firm and united front is best in dealing with people like that, consistency is key.
I think it's important to sit down with your Fiancée and talk this out. I would suggest that you let her know you want to discuss these issues with her, and agree on a time and day so you can both have your say, without springing it on her out of the blue and possibly having an argument. It's important to remember, she is on your side, and it's not her fault her mother is behaving this way.

But I would not make any mention at all today of the MIL, or where you will potentially move to. As others have said, you both need to have a nice evening together to unwind and recharge after an emotional weekend. Put the MIL and her issues out of your head, don't allow her to interrupt or interfere with the rest of your day, you're at home now.
Have the conversation in a few days when your heads aren't so fried, it'll be much easier when you're settled back into your usual routine in your own home. The both of you are tired and confused, you deserve a treat, order in a takeaway and have a movie night or whatever.

In a day or two, have the conversation. Let your Fiancée know that her mother's behaviour is messing with your head, and that you would like to have a united front in responding to MIL's demands in future.
If you want to continue with the relationship, tell your Fiancée that you want to focus on the needs and wants of the couple, and not include someone outside of your relationship.
Deciding on where to settle down is a big decision in itself, so you both need to weigh up the pros and cons of locations, and figure out where exactly is realistic for you to live together.
Getting married would make the two of you a family unit, so it would be good practice now to figure out together what your next step will be.

Meeoow

If MIL is such a wagon, why did you stay in her house the weekend? Why didn't you let your partner go down, and you stay in Dublin?
I never understand people who give out about their in laws, then are stuck every spare minute with them.

Milsawagon

Meeoow wrote: »

If MIL is such a wagon, why did you stay in her house the weekend? Why didn't you let your partner go down, and you stay in Dublin?
I never understand people who give out about their in laws, then are stuck every spare minute with them.

I just didn't want to be away from the missus for the weekend this weekend.

Thanks for the replies I have read each one even if I haven't replied.

Me and the OH are going to have a nice evening in and chill out. She has decided to take a stand against her mother

irishblessing

Milsawagon wrote: »

I will be up at the crack of dawn and gone like a shot. The mil will never see me here again ever

If you have kids in the future , never seeing your MIL there is an idea that goes out the window.

TheBoyConor

I wouldn't expect a stand to last too long. Since it is all up in the air now this "stand " has been taken. You could expect it to fade away in time.

It is not a situation I could tolerate.

Tork

If your fiancée has decided to take a stand against her mother, she is going to need help and support from you and others. This book has been recommended here by other posters so I'm linking to it again https://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Reclaiming/dp/0553381407/. I think she will need some sessions with a therapist though. Saying she wants to stand up to her is a lot easier than actually doing it. Relationships with parents are very deep and complex.

bodking

Stand up to your girlfriends mother or you'll be a subservient pussy for a few years and then angry and ashamed of yourself and finally divorced. If that's the life you want then go ahead .

TheBoyConor

I'll second bodkings post. This is not something that will just go away. When ye have kids she will become more invovled again.

I can predict you putting up for it for another few years if you decide to marry, but ultimately I predict that you will end up a "dad's best friend" type character - middle aged up to the eyes in debt and kids expenses, a marriage in tatters and paying through the nose over the divorce, out of your house living in a flat.

Call me a pessimist, but as been has said on here time and time again, there are plenty of people who had well founded doubts going into a marriage and hoping that things would settle and improve, only to be horribly disappointed when things only got worse. After a marriage, a relationship tends to deteriorate. I have never heard a story where a relationship went from stregth to strength after the marriage took place. All the experiences on Boards are to the contract.

Anyway, I think you have gotten all the advice that is necessary. I would advise against continuing with her. Proceed at your own peril. If you are back here in 5 or 10 years with a marriage breakdown thread I will be saying I told you so.

Tork

Let's not forget you said "It has left me with no faith in relationships and a complete aversion to anything with even a hint of being more than a temporary fling. My views on relationships are skewed against them as to me they have been a relentless series of abuses." OP, bear this in mind when reading advice from this particular person

(waits for card from mods but I felt it had to be said)

Neyite

MIL sounds annoying, the moaning about exaggerated or invented health issues is not just annoying for you, but it must be some massive guilt trip for your Fiancée. And she could probably do with someone in her corner who supports her when the guilt trip gets piled on. Your job is to bring her back to reality in a supportive way when her mother gets a bit much, be someone she leans on but what you did initially at the beginning of the thread was the opposite and you were putting pressure on her when it was coming from the other side at the same time. From now on you need to be on the same team

Some of it is just MIL stuff. When someone irritates you, it's often the case that much of the stuff they are doing is something that you wouldn't notice if someone you like does it, but because it's someone who's annoying, it grates. So firstly separate out that stuff, and don't let it get to you.

So her talking about you both moving beside her is wishful thinking out loud - you don't have to act on it. Part of that is just a Mammy thing - they all want their offspring to live closer /nearby, particularly if they are single or widowed. Most accept it, but others don't or cant. The trick is to let that in one ear and out the other. "Yes it's a pity there's no jobs around here Mary, that's this country for ya" or "Oh it's only 2 hours in the car to visit, that's no length of a journey these days with the great roads we have" and so on. Fob it off and don't let it get to you.

When she's giving out about her ailments or if your fiancée is stressed because Mam has heart pains or whatever, it's your job to put it in perspective -if she won't go to a GP then she's an adult and must have decided she's not ill enough to waste a GP's time. Ergo, shes just having a moan for attention. If she is that ill, she needs to see a doctor. Don't indulge her with long chats or try to tell her why X pain doesn't mean that she has Y illness. She doesn't want to hear it. She wants attention. I know someone like this. I never ask how they are because that's their opening. And when they do start talking I just wait a bit and say "oh dear that doesn't sound nice. Hope it gets sorted for you soon. Shame about the weather lately isn't it" I don't indulge and she's found someone else to bend the ear of with her ailments these days.

Also, you don't have to go to visit. My OH only sees my family at weddings and funerals or other big events, but when I go to visit family, I go on my own or bring our kid and he stays home so I get a proper catch up with my family and he's not sat there listening to some story of some cousin or neighbour he's never heard of and is bored out of his mind.

The book above recommended by Tork is an excellent one. If the MIL does have manipulative tendencies that put pressure on your fiancée then that book helps make sense of those behaviours and help how you react to those tactics.

statto25

Tork wrote: »

If your fiancée has decided to take a stand against her mother, she is going to need help and support from you and others. This book has been recommended here by other posters so I'm linking to it again https://www.amazon.com/Toxic-Parents-Overcoming-Hurtful-Reclaiming/dp/0553381407/. I think she will need some sessions with a therapist though. Saying she wants to stand up to her is a lot easier than actually doing it. Relationships with parents are very deep and complex.

I only discovered that book yesterday on a different forum site. I have read this book and found it quite helpful in my own Toxic family issues https://www.amazon.com/But-Its-Your-Family-Aftermath/dp/1642790990/ref=sr_1_1?crid=22G0UZDSM35TH&dchild=1&keywords=toxic+family&qid=1598346614&s=books&sprefix=toxic+famil%2Cstripbooks-intl-ship%2C312&sr=1-1

TheBoyConor

Tork wrote: »

Let's not forget you said "It has left me with no faith in relationships and a complete aversion to anything with even a hint of being more than a temporary fling. My views on relationships are skewed against them as to me they have been a relentless series of abuses." OP, bear this in mind when reading advice from this particular person

(waits for card from mods but I felt it had to be said)

I see you are continuing the recent trend that will be the death of Boards, disagreeing with a poster and then trawling and dredging up their historical posts by them for you to use against them in your arguement. Bravo.

Hannibal_Smith

Mod Note

Tork and TheBoyConor that's enough.

Tork, if you want to counter the advice someone has given, please do it in line with the Charter. Otherwise it drags the thread off topic.

TheBoyConor, We are here to help an OP who is troubled enough to start a thread and seek advice on an issue that's impacting them. It's up to the OP to decide what advice is most appropriate to them at the end of the day. Threatening them with I told you so because it'll all go wrong if they don't follow your advice is harsh and unnecessary.

Please bear the above in mind.

Thanks

HS

laserlad2010

What in the seven hells is going on in this thread?!

OP, for the love of god stop posting one liners. IF you want advice from us, sit down and type out a proper post giving us enough detail to help:

- Your relationship with fiance
- Relationship with MIL
- Issues with MIL including examples of difficult behaviour
- What you want to happen
- Some attempt at objective analysis of your behaviour

Otherwise this is frustrating - we can't help you until you give us a coherent picture.

lunamoon

Other than saying she wants you to live closer to her she doesn't sound like the MIL from hell.

You can't afford to live in Dublin so stop using your MIL as an excuse as to why you are living where you are currently living.