Rural v Urban services cost - one rule for me, another for thee?

CertifiedSimp

I was seeing comments about the broadband plan and how people in rural Ireland will have to pay about 5k for their broadband connection. People said you can't expect others to pay for your connection.

Yet how much money is spent on flood defences in certain towns that rural Ireland pays for?

If your town gets flooded, why should I be paying for it? You chose to live in a hole beside a river, you should pay for your own flood defence system.

Thoughts?

Thelonious Monk

CertifiedSimp wrote: »

I was seeing comments about the broadband plan and how people in rural Ireland will have to pay about 5k for their broadband connection. People said you can't expect others to pay for your connection.

Yet how much money is spent on flood defences in certain towns that rural Ireland pays for?

If your town gets flooded, why should I be paying for it? You chose to live in a hole beside a river, you should pay for your own flood defence system.

Thoughts?

So if I'm reading you right, you don't mind if we Dubs and Corkonians etc. keep our taxes instead of propping up the rest of the country?

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/property-tax-from-our-cities-still-props-up-rest-of-country-38443184.html

amacca

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So if I'm reading you right, you don't mind if we Dubs and Corkonians etc. keep our taxes instead of propping up the rest of the country?

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/property-tax-from-our-cities-still-props-up-rest-of-country-38443184.html

grand...we down the country will keep the means of producing food and declare our own independant republic

if you want irish spuds youll have to pay through the nose for them, if you want them form overseas then thats your perogative

if you want to visit any natural beauty spots/heritage sites outside the city limits there will be a hefty fee for a day pass

you an keep your roads we wont be needing those but dont be surprised if we start taking long range pot shots at anyone from cork or dublin using them......but especially cork.

osarusan

What an original idea for a thread.

Thelonious Monk

amacca wrote: »

grand...we down the country will keep the means of producing food and declare our own independant republic

if you want irish spuds youll have to pay through the nose for them, if you want them form overseas then thats your perogative

if you want to visit any natural beauty spots/heritage sites outside the city limits there will be a hefty fee for a day pass

you an keep your roads we wont be needing those but dont be surprised if we start taking long range pot shots at anyone from cork or dublin using them......but especially cork.

I don't eat beef, that's all you seem to produce. North County Dublin produces most of the fruit/veg in Ireland and can import the rest. So yeah keep your beef and dairy!

CertifiedSimp

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I don't eat beef, that's all you seem to produce. North County Dublin produces most of the fruit/veg in Ireland and can import the rest. So yeah keep your beef and dairy!

You don't. Likely your boss or co workers do though.

CertifiedSimp

CertifiedSimp wrote: »

I was seeing comments about the broadband plan and how people in rural Ireland will have to pay about 5k for their broadband connection. People said you can't expect others to pay for your connection.

Yet how much money is spent on flood defences in certain towns that rural Ireland pays for?

If your town gets flooded, why should I be paying for it? You chose to live in a hole beside a river, you should pay for your own flood defence system.

Thoughts?

You pay for the same reason that I pay taxes which help the disabled, the obese, the unemployed, the... whatever. There are heaps of things which my tax contributions are spent on which I will never avail myself of, nor would I be eligible for them. It's what being part of a nation means. You pay towards the nation, not your own particular needs.

(on a side note, many flood defenses are paid for and built by local monies rather than coming from the government, because waiting for the government to allocate and organise flood defenses takes a very long time. Besides, there might be other problems of conflicting interests with the government, and it's better to provide the defenses yourself. If you can. Planning permission can be rather difficult to get sometimes)

Anyway, OP, what are your thoughts? You asked the questions but failed to give your own opinions on the subject.

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So if I'm reading you right, you don't mind if we Dubs and Corkonians etc. keep our taxes instead of propping up the rest of the country?

https://www.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/property-tax-from-our-cities-still-props-up-rest-of-country-38443184.html

Except, there's far more than "native" Dubs in Dublin. A hefty percentage of Dublin's population comes from the countryside, whether they commute or rent there, they're still connected to the countryside (many of whom would prefer to live in their home areas). Anyway a large part of discrepancy in revenue vs costs comes down to Dublin always receiving the Lions share of investment. Had the rest of the country received anything close to the same attention, we'd be seeing far more economic value throughout the country.

CertifiedSimp

Deleted User wrote: »

You pay for the same reason that I pay taxes which help the disabled, the obese, the unemployed, the... whatever. There are heaps of things which my tax contributions are spent on which I will never avail myself of, nor would I be eligible for them. It's what being part of a nation means. You pay towards the nation, not your own particular needs.

(on a side note, many flood defenses are paid for and built by local monies rather than coming from the government, because waiting for the government to allocate and organise flood defenses takes a very long time. Besides, there might be other problems of conflicting interests with the government, and it's better to provide the defenses yourself. If you can. Planning permission can be rather difficult to get sometimes)

Anyway, OP, what are your thoughts? You asked the questions but failed to give your own opinions on the subject.



Except, there's far more than "native" Dubs in Dublin. A hefty percentage of Dublin's population comes from the countryside, whether they commute or rent there, they're still connected to the countryside (many of whom would prefer to live in their home areas). Anyway a large part of discrepancy in revenue vs costs comes down to Dublin always receiving the Lions share of investment. Had the rest of the country received anything close to the same attention, we'd be seeing far more economic value throughout the country.

My opinion is yes, paying for flood defences through tax is fine. But so should paying for broadband connections. Broadband is almost a human right at this stage its so important to our lives.

suicide_circus

Hard to have sympathy for McMansion dwellers who plonk a villa in a field and then wonder where all the services are.

listermint

suicide_circus wrote: »

Hard to have sympathy for McMansion dwellers who plonk a villa in a field and then wonder where all the services are.

Aye hide mcmansions in the middle of bantry... Sucking up all that flood water.



Hurrah..

EmmetSpiceland

You’ll take the broadband, and the flood “defences“, but god forbid you’ll let us Dubs take a drink from the Shannon.

Thelonious Monk

listermint wrote: »

Aye hide mcmansions in the middle of bantry... Sucking up all that flood water.



Hurrah..

€15 million of concrete walls and ecological vandalism of the river Bandon clearly doesn't work.

CertifiedSimp

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/0831/1162347-woodbrook-dart-station/

New train station funded by NTA for a new train station.

You won't see anyone saying the residents should be paying for it themselves.

Thelonious Monk

CertifiedSimp wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/dublin/2020/0831/1162347-woodbrook-dart-station/

New train station funded by NTA for a new train station.

You won't see anyone saying the residents should be paying for it themselves.

But... they are. Dublin takes in by far the most money in the country.
Rural Ireland would barely have surfaced roads if Dublin and Cork etc were to keep all their tax.

CertifiedSimp

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But... they are. Dublin takes in by far the most money in the country.
Rural Ireland would barely have surfaced roads if Dublin and Cork etc were to keep all their tax.

Not all Dubs will use the train station though.

Dubs wouldn't be eating meat if they didn't have rural Ireland to provide for them.

Thelonious Monk

CertifiedSimp wrote: »

Not all Dubs will use the train station though.

Dubs wouldn't be eating meat if they didn't have rural Ireland to provide for them.

Well I don't eat beef, and we could just import it cheaper anyway.
I'll never use the station but it's good that the people living there will have better public transport.
What's the point of this thread? Are you really that insecure about Dublin or what?

Hawthorn Tree

I like things the way they are

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

But... they are. Dublin takes in by far the most money in the country.
Rural Ireland would barely have surfaced roads if Dublin and Cork etc were to keep all their tax.

There was a time when Dubliners only talked about Dublin supporting the country. I suppose it's progress when they admit that another part of the country does too.

But as I said earlier, Dublin has forever been the first step for investment in Ireland, and if there had been a similar focus to provide for other parts of the country, we'd be seeing such a return on that investment now.

Instead, we're seeing towns collapse with their populations declining, as there's few jobs, (apart from those who can commute) and no serious infrastructure to attract businesses away from the main population centers

Thelonious Monk

Deleted User wrote: »

There was a time when Dubliners only talked about Dublin supporting the country. I suppose it's progress when they admit that another part of the country does too.

But as I said earlier, Dublin has forever been the first step for investment in Ireland, and if there had been a similar focus to provide for other parts of the country, we'd be seeing such a return on that investment now.

Instead, we're seeing towns collapse with their populations declining, as there's few jobs, (apart from those who can commute) and no serious infrastructure to attract businesses away from the main population centers

The big earners in Dublin don't want to locate outside of Dublin. Same with Cork, Apple aren't going to attract the same investment and staff if they're in Ballina.
The whole towns collapsing thing is down to many issues. People moving to cities, people moving to one-offs, etc.
Anyway that's a whole other discussion. The OP seems to have a problem with money earned in one place being spent in other places. I don't know the solution to this but if we all became independent cities/counties I think people outside of the cities would be far less well off.

Eric Cartman

The same people who oppose rural broadband spending have no issue with rural taxes propping up dublin bus, Irish rail which is dublin centric, projects like the wild atlantic way, cycling infrastructure, social housing, abortions etc...

You cant have a tax system that keeps dumping all over rural ireland , or if we want one that cherry picks spending then the rural broadband and roads And prisons are about the only ones I want to pay

Yurt2

Abortions brought into a thread about rural broadband; that's a first (I think).

jimmycrackcorm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The same people who oppose rural broadband spending have no issue with rural taxes propping up dublin bus, Irish rail which is dublin centric, projects like the wild atlantic way, cycling infrastructure, social housing, abortions etc...

You cant have a tax system that keeps dumping all over rural ireland , or if we want one that cherry picks spending then the rural broadband and roads And prisons are about the only ones I want to pay

It's actually Dublin that broadly subsidizes the rest of the country.
Irish Rail seems to exist to bring people to dublin from the rest of the country.

It's fair enough to subsidize rural broadband but at a reasonable level. It's going to cost more for rural users to get access simply because urban locations have greater economies of scale within reach of many more people sharing the cost.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The big earners in Dublin don't want to locate outside of Dublin. Same with Cork, Apple aren't going to attract the same investment and staff if they're in Ballina.

There's more to the Irish economy than Apple, and other mega corporations who need an airport or decent sized shipping port nearby. Proper investment into infrastructure along with incentives for small-medium sized companies to set up and run from the countryside, would change a lot of problems, and decrease the difference in revenue, raise land prices, etc.

The whole towns collapsing thing is down to many issues. People moving to cities, people moving to one-offs, etc.

Lack of investment, and national level planning to encourage those towns to grow? Maybe?

Anyway that's a whole other discussion. The OP seems to have a problem with money earned in one place being spent in other places. I don't know the solution to this but if we all became independent cities/counties I think people outside of the cities would be far less well off.

I don't see it part of another discussion when you make the statement I responded to.

And the idea of independent cities/countries is utterly retarded. The OP wants to ignore that the whole population contributes to the nation. Dublin wouldn't be close to what it currently is without the people who moved there from the countryside to add their skills, and energy.

Eric Cartman

Yurt! wrote: »

Abortions brought into a thread about rural broadband; that's a first (I think).

Im just mentioning controversial issues our taxes pay for. I dont want a debate about it.