DART coming to Maynooth line in 2024

quazzy

beauf wrote: »

What's the source of it? Or did both of you coincidentally do a FOI request for it?

Wasn't a FOI request, just an email asking for clarification on what our local TDs will be submitting for the consultation period. I've done the same for all TDs in the area.

Leo's constituency office confirmed it was his submission and forwarded me the PDF version.

liamog

The Dark Knight wrote: »

And just for the record to whoever wrote the letter. There is NOT broad acceptance for the closure of the level crossing at Clonsilla.
* Their traffic data must have been taken on a Sunday morning in the middle of the lockdown.
* Will dramatically increase traffic on Dr Troy Bridge
" No consideration made for Kellystown
* The footbridge they are proposing is a monster.

I've made a submission both on the Dart+ West and Kellystown LAP that some joined up thinking is needed to ensure there is a replacement. If the Coolmine crossing doesn't go ahead, there will be only one North/South railway crossing for about 5.5km. That's a huge distance when talking about suburbs.

beauf

quazzy wrote: »

Wasn't a FOI request, just an email asking for clarification on what our local TDs will be submitting for the consultation period. I've done the same for all TDs in the area.

Leo's constituency office confirmed it was his submission and forwarded me the PDF version.

But you didn't post it. a "different" poster did.

beauf

liamog wrote: »

I've made a submission both on the Dart+ West and Kellystown LAP that some joined up thinking is needed to ensure there is a replacement. If the Coolmine crossing doesn't go ahead, there will be only one North/South railway crossing for about 5.5km. That's a huge distance when talking about suburbs.

People seems to think this was good planning. I can't see it myself.

Clonsilla always seems to have a queue at it, either because of trains or the lights. I avoid that crossing most of the time and I'm only ever near it off peak.

If the numbers are indeed low. It's probably because it's crossing somewhere else, I suspect the majority goes to Dr Troy bridge looking at the queue's either side of that.

quazzy

beauf wrote: »

But you didn't post it. a "different" poster did.

Correct. I didn't post up the screenshot.

I'm not double agent on boards.ie (please contact a mod to confirm)

I, like most people, don't believe everything posted on public forums so I raised a question to Leo's office about its legitimacy.

If you still think I'm trying mislead anyone or misrepresent myself then please email Leo's office and ask them the question yourself about his submission.

Not trying stir anything here just wanted to add to the conversation and share a fact about the previous post.

beauf

quazzy wrote: »

...
I, like most people, don't believe everything posted on public forums . ....

Hence why I asked.

IngazZagni

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Issues raised in the Dail

https://youtu.be/e9uYSsDq4Kk

I despair watching things like this and we wonder why things are so slow or don't get done at all in Ireland.

quazzy

beauf wrote: »

Hence why I asked.

Fair point. And it's 100% accurate.

I can't, at present, point to an article or online reference that will confirm the statement I made about Leo's submission being correct.

Until there is something official I suppose readers will believe or not believe what is being said and stated as facts.

If anyone is inclined to check if the submission is accurate, it's only an email request away.

Either way, let continue with the discussion and see where it goes.

If any of the other TDs come back to me about their submissions I'll throw them up here as I get them.

Submission deadline is now 21st October so it shouldn't be long.

beauf

Fair enough.

I think people don't realise this is as much a political problem as an infrastructure one.

BonnieSituation

TBF beauf, most people with any interest in PT and infrastructure in Ireland realise it is first and foremost a political problem,.

It's precisely why I referenced the Naas by-pass and Luas on Harcourt Complaints earlier on.

We get the shít infrastructure and watered down planning BECAUSE of political interference in almost 100% of cases.

beauf

Those planning big infrastructure projects should therefore, stop trying to bluff the local voters on local issues.

The examples you used before are very dissimilar. I don't know why you keep bringing them up.

BonnieSituation

beauf wrote: »

Those planning big infrastructure projects should therefore, stop trying to bluff the local voters on local issues.

The examples you used before are very dissimilar. I don't know why you keep bringing them up.

I brought them up once before, and you didn't understand the point then, as you don't now.

The reason they were brought up was because they were examples of NIMBYism. Thankfully sense was seen in the case of Harcourt St.

Big Infrastructure projects should have the greater good spelled out, which tbf to the NTA, they are getting much better at.

Political representations should also be banned or at least, their effectiveness diluted.

No one is bluffing anyone wrt Coolmine etc, it's just that the local population don't equate the apparent inconvenience with the greater good. This is a natural reaction.

I mean, look at Dunville Avenue as an example.

FWIW, I think Coolmine should be closed rather than the project be delayed. And then wait for the complaints in 5 years about rat-runs and traffic on Porterstown Road.

beauf

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I brought them up once before, and you didn't understand the point then, as you don't now.....No one is bluffing anyone wrt Coolmine etc, it's just that the local population don't equate the apparent inconvenience with the greater good. ....

If the frequency can be achieved with the crossing closed or open, then what greater good is being denied?

Whats the "apparent" inconvenience?

BonnieSituation wrote: »

FWIW, I think Coolmine should be closed rather than the project be delayed. And then wait for the complaints in 5 years about rat-runs and traffic on Porterstown Road.

I agree close it now.

There is nothing apparent about it. There are already complaints about traffic and rat runs. That is the difference. They aren't complaining about something they have no experience of. It already been a problem for years.

Once bitten twice shy.

beauf

The solution to traffic is not more traffic.

beauf

IngazZagni wrote: »

I despair watching things like this and we wonder why things are so slow or don't get done at all in Ireland.

Maybe we should copy China, you never hear anyone complaining about things there. At least never more than once.

IngazZagni

beauf wrote: »

Maybe we should copy China, you never hear anyone complaining about things there. At least never more than once.

2 extremes. We are the other end of the scale. Now Paul Donnelly wants to effectively delay it for another year. He also wants to add a couple of locks to the canal which sounds bonkers. He also wants to provide thousands of euro to every nimby in the Country to get some alternative expert advice to the expert advice that already exists.

We keep referencing other Countries and their efficient public transport. People seem to forget that those people suffered years of construction works before they got to that stage. Short term pain, long term gain.

daymobrew

Here's a link to the Riverwood Residents Association submission.

The headlines:

• Shambolic consultation
• Incorrect MCA conclusions
• Conflict with Corporate Social Responsibility Statement 2016
• Leave the level crossing
• Reasons why the proposed flyover is a terrible idea
• Alternative options

IngazZagni

daymobrew wrote: »

Here's a link to the Riverwood Residents Association submission.

The headlines:

• Shambolic consultation
• Incorrect MCA conclusions
• Conflict with Corporate Social Responsibility Statement 2016
• Leave the level crossing
• Reasons why the proposed flyover is a terrible idea
• Alternative options

Some of the comments on that link are quite frankly amusing. They claim that a bridge would cause more people to use their car and this would be bad for the environment. That the air around Dr Troy Bridge stinks of vehicle exhaust fumes. Apparently a 300 metre queue of cars does not... Yet on the flipside they claim the reduced car traffic will cause more anti social behaviour. They can't make their mind up!

They go on to reference a Network rail engineering project done in 6 days but fail to see that it's a completely different type of project that is much much simpler. I could go on...

I wonder could you compromise by leaving the level crossing open but have the new bridge built too?

IngazZagni

beauf wrote: »

Maybe you could provide some stats on how increasing traffic reduces pollution.

Or how Dr Troy bridge has reduced traffic and queue's in the area.

I think you missed my point completely. Also a high frequency fast Dart service should naturally encourage extra usage in the area and thus car dependency. The infrequent service that we see currently is a big drawback. You need to get a service like this to a frequency where you don't need to plan what time you need to be at the station. It should be a maximum of 15 minutes waiting.

I will also give you an example further up the line towards the city on the Ratoath Road. The bridge there has eliminated traffic in the area caused by the old level crossing. Can anyone even remember that level crossing? Some interesting photos online of the big tailbacks that used to exist there.

Edit: Also are you trying to suggest that if we closed Dr Troy bridge tonight traffic levels wouldn't be affected?

beauf

You don't seem to understand.

Dr Troy bridge caused a dramatic increase in traffic and trail backs. Because while the bridge can handle the traffic the infrastructure either side of it can't. Adding a new bridge won't change that in anyway. It will just increase pressure on the infrastructure either side of it.

That's not true in Rathoath.

beauf

IngazZagni wrote: »

Also a high frequency fast Dart service should naturally encourage extra usage in the area and thus car dependency. .

I agree with you. Up to now the car park was never completely full because a large number of people would avoid the parking fees and park in the estates, causing issues there.

So is there any provision for this extra traffic looking for parking? Nope. It's actually being reduced both from the car park and on the roads where they usually park.

You are one of the few people to mention this, because most of the others commenting have no intention of ever getting the train. So they are oblivious to it.

IngazZagni

I don't understand why you would want to increase parking at Coolmine Station. This is not a suitable location for a park and ride. It is intended for use by residents within a 20 minute walking radius. Navan Road Parkway is an example of a station that I see potential for an increase in spaces. I used to live close to a Luas stop. Parking by luas commuters was an issue at first but after working with the council, pay and display spaces were provided with resident permits which solved the issue.

I dont buy the argument that building a bridge will increase traffic. However it is possible that it causes more traffic around Dr Troy Bridge because people try to avoid delays at the Coolmine crossing. I say this because that is exactly what I have done a couple times.

jam_mac_jam

IngazZagni wrote: »

I don't understand why you would want to increase parking at Coolmine Station. This is not a suitable location for a park and ride. It is intended for use by residents within a 20 minute walking radius. Navan Road Parkway is an example of a station that I see potential for an increase in spaces. I used to live close to a Luas stop. Parking by luas commuters was an issue at first but after working with the council, pay and display spaces were provided with resident permits which solved the issue.

I dont buy the argument that building a bridge will increase traffic. However it is possible that it causes more traffic around Dr Troy Bridge because people try to avoid delays at the Coolmine crossing. I say this because that is exactly what I have done a couple times.

There are a huge amount of people that use the train that are further then twenty minutes away. Maybe more parking would prevent all the roads being parked on in the estates. They park all over in Mochtas including on bends making it difficult to cross the road and for cars to pass.

daymobrew

IngazZagni wrote: »

I dont buy the argument that building a bridge will increase traffic. However it is possible that it causes more traffic around Dr Troy Bridge because people try to avoid delays at the Coolmine crossing. I say this because that is exactly what I have done a couple times.

I think you've answered your own question - people (yourself included) choose to use Dr Troy Bridge because of the level crossing. If the level crossing is removed a new bridge will be very attractive to drivers and draw them to it ("induced demand" stuff) as a way to get to and through Carpenterstown. There may be people that will choose it as a route to Castleknock over Clonsilla Road or Roselawn Road.

Some of those will be people avoiding Dr Troy Bridge as it may take traffic formerly crossing at Clonsilla or Porterstown.

With respect to pollution - I wish people waiting at the level crossing would switch off their engines while they wait. My bicycle auto switches off :-)

I want option 7 - the pedestrian/cycle bridge. I want the quiet cycle track in Station Court retained.

IngazZagni

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

There are a huge amount of people that use the train that are further then twenty minutes away. Maybe more parking would prevent all the roads being parked on in the estates. They park all over in Mochtas including on bends making it difficult to cross the road and for cars to pass.

I disagree. Better cooperation with Fingal coco should be the main aim of the local residents. Double yellow lines should be painted on the bends you mention and pay and display elsewhere.
Those 20 minutes further west from Coolmine will be better off using Clonsilla. Those 20 minutes further east would be better off using Castleknock. 20 minutes south and you reach Castleknock hotel and the limit of the catchment area. 20 minutes north and you'd be better off and encouraged to use the new Busconnects services from the Blanchardstown Centre area. Looking at the map there should be a limited amount of people driving to Coolmine Station. Better cycling infrastructure and improved cycling parking spaces should indeed be included.

As for the Dr Troy bridge argument. Once the new bridge is (hopefully) built it will probably slightly reduce traffic at Troy. I dont believe people will just start driving north and south of the bridge for the craic because it's suddenly faster. I did it out of necessity and Google maps showd long delays at the coolmine crossing so I chose the longer route.

Option 7 doesn't do enough in my opinion and there is a reason that most of its assessments are rated as negative.

jam_mac_jam

IngazZagni wrote: »

I disagree. Better cooperation with Fingal coco should be the main aim of the local residents. Double yellow lines should be painted on the bends you mention and pay and display elsewhere.
Those 20 minutes further west from Coolmine will be better off using Clonsilla. Those 20 minutes further east would be better off using Castleknock. 20 minutes south and you reach Castleknock hotel and the limit of the catchment area. 20 minutes north and you'd be better off and encouraged to use the new Busconnects services from the Blanchardstown Centre area. Looking at the map there should be a limited amount of people driving to Coolmine Station. Better cycling infrastructure and improved cycling parking spaces should indeed be included.

As for the Dr Troy bridge argument. Once the new bridge is (hopefully) built it will probably slightly reduce traffic at Troy. I dont believe people will just start driving north and south of the bridge for the craic because it's suddenly faster. I did it out of necessity and Google maps showd long delays at the coolmine crossing so I chose the longer route.

Option 7 doesn't do enough in my opinion and there is a reason that most of its assessments are rated as negative.

The council have added some double yellow lines in fairness a few months ago. It's all great to say that people should be using clonsilla, they are not. All the streets nearby are used as car parks. There should be a limited number but in reality there isn't.

It's very busy with people from further away. Which is good, it means that they aren't driving into town.

beauf

IngazZagni wrote: »

....

As for the Dr Troy bridge argument. Once the new bridge is (hopefully) built it will probably slightly reduce traffic at Troy. I dont believe people will just start driving north and south of the bridge for the craic because it's suddenly faster. I did it out of necessity and Google maps showd long delays at the coolmine crossing so I chose the longer route.
...

What bottlenecks Dr Troy bridge is that the roads to and from it are all congested. The proposed new bridge will bring more traffic into exactly the same roads. It will actually concentrate the existing traffic into an even smaller area.

Dr Troy bridge has increased traffic and grid lock in the area. Traffic all around has increased massively since it opened. It's without a doubt drawing traffic to itself like a magnet.

beauf

IngazZagni wrote: »

.... Better cycling infrastructure and improved cycling parking spaces should indeed be included.....

You can't leave a bicycle at coolmine on the rack it will be wrecked. But there are secure bicycle lockers at the station you can pay for.

Ironically one of the reasons stated for not putting a bridge at coolmine, is the there wouldn't be room for cycle lanes and such on it. Which is ironic since the road to get to station doesn't have cycle lanes.

Most people didn't comment on any of this. Since the vast majority drive, don't cycle and don't use the train station anyway.

People would prefer to spend 30 mins in gridlock than 15 mins on a bicycle. So people aren't going to shift to cycling. But for those that do want to cycle there are options.

IngazZagni

The only traffic congestion this morning was around the Coolmine crossing. I was monitoring it online and yes I am aware traffic levels are lower in general at the moment.

We should not be building new infrastructure like bridges that don't have cycle lines. That's just wrong. The new bridge proposed will create plenty of safe space for cyclists. It's the narrow and congested roads with no cycle lanes that is one of the primary reasons people don't cycle.

I'm not sure what you want exactly. Would you have preferred Dr Troy bridge was never built? Also what do you think will happen if this new bridge is not built and we have a 10 minute frequency of trains in both directions with the Coolmine crossing still in place?

Perhaps look at the southside and the crossing at the junction of Merrion Road and Strand Road. Some real crazy traffic there and nimbys have also been blocking a new bridge in that area. This is what Coolmine will become with no new bridge.

I'll just sign out on this subject with a better understanding as to why it's next to impossible to build decent infrastructure in this Country.

Seth Brundle

IngazZagni wrote: »

It's the narrow and congested roads with no cycle lanes that is one of the primary reasons people don't cycle.

Just to clarify, it's not the roads and the volume of traffic that puts people off cycling. It's the agressive and bullying nature of some drivers who look to punish cyclists for simply being in front of them.
But yes, any new infrastructure should be future proofed and include segregated lanes for both cyclists and pedestrians (not having both mixed either!).