Getting old flatmate to pay their part of the electricity bill

endacl

davindub wrote: »

District court.

Or...

rock22

OP, are you saying that there were meter readings each month but that , based on the level pay plan, you paid less than the amount owed?
If so, i am afraid the time to sort it out was when this couple left. You, and they if you sent then a copy of the bill each month, had all the figures to calculate how much had been underpaid.

But coming after them two months later is a problem. Will they not say that they settled all outstanding bills with you when they left?

If you go to court, which will cost you, you will have to prove that this couple actually owe the money and so you will need and hope they don't dispute the bills or meter readings.

Finally , i think , from what you have posted, that you would have to take individual actions against each of them. Even in small claims court, thatwill cost you €50.

FridaysWell

ec18 wrote: »

would you have to show fair apportionment of the outstanding balance? for instance they moved out and had paid their share of the level pay up to that point.

The problem is that the level pay was underestimated and there is an outstanding balance? and you want what you have defined as their fair share of that?

District court seems like an expensive way to go for 90e, I understand the principal of the thing and being our of pocket etc.

Are you sure you want to go to all that expense and hassle for principal?

It wasn't underestimated. It is how level pay works - the monthly amounts go up / down based upon usage. Problem here was that I had to close the account in the middle of this, and there was an amount owed to the Utility company, of which it was pretty easy to show how much they should pay for when they were living there.

DC would be worth it for the principle but not worth it economically (time and money involved). SCC doesn't seem to be a goer either :rolleyes:

endacl wrote: »

Or...

I wish, probably make a fool of myself by spilling coffee everywhere or something:pac:

rock22 wrote: »

OP, are you saying that there were meter readings each month but that , based on the level pay plan, you paid less than the amount owed?
If so, i am afraid the time to sort it out was when this couple left. You, and they if you sent then a copy of the bill each month, had all the figures to calculate how much had been underpaid.

But coming after them two months later is a problem. Will they not say that they settled all outstanding bills with you when they left?

If you go to court, which will cost you, you will have to prove that this couple actually owe the money and so you will need and hope they don't dispute the bills or meter readings.

Finally , i think , from what you have posted, that you would have to take individual actions against each of them. Even in small claims court, thatwill cost you €50.

We didn't pay less than the amount owed. We paid the amount requested by the electricity company - e.g. Mar + April = €150 of elec used, pay €40 May 1st, €45 Jun 1st, €60 Jul 1st etc., You're right I should have chased this as they were leaving, but I didn't.

This wasn't a bill anyone of us was expecting to be fair, but it clearly showed that part of the total closing bill accured when they were living there. Asked them nicely to pay their share a few times, got nowhere and they started to throw BS back at me - so I figured lets see if I can get a court / 3rd party to help settle.

Does not seem economically viable to go down any path. No guarantee SCC would hear the case. Sin é as they say...

whippet

Get your self a solicitor and have them draft a letter demanding payment within 28 days. If this isn't paid get your solicitor to issue proceedings in the district court. You may need to get an expert witness in to explain how estimated billing works for the benefit of the court and due process.

You'll then have a chance of being awarded the €90 and you can then use your solicitor to get a sheriff involved to recover the debt.

When you have your €90 and have paid the solicitor and sheriff you'll have a massive sense of justice being served.

** this is not legal advice but just some waffle to illustrate that you are on a hiding to nothing trying to pursue this. Chalk it up to experience and move on with your life

FridaysWell

whippet wrote: »

Get your self a solicitor and have them draft a letter demanding payment within 28 days. If this isn't paid get your solicitor to issue proceedings in the district court. You may need to get an expert witness in to explain how estimated billing works for the benefit of the court and due process.

You'll then have a chance of being awarded the €90 and you can then use your solicitor to get a sheriff involved to recover the debt.

When you have your €90 and have paid the solicitor and sheriff you'll have a massive sense of justice being served.

** this is not legal advice but just some waffle to illustrate that you are on a hiding to nothing trying to pursue this. Chalk it up to experience and move on with your life

**** 'em. Clear that there isn't a legal path that is worth it for the amount of money involved. Will bug the 'doing the right thing' side of me but I'll get over it in time.

Thanks all for the replies.

wench

FridaysWell wrote: »

It wasn't underestimated. It is how level pay works - the monthly amounts go up / down based upon usage. Problem here was that I had to close the account in the middle of this, and there was an amount owed to the Utility company, of which it was pretty easy to show how much they should pay for when they were living there.

DC would be worth it for the principle but not worth it economically (time and money involved). SCC doesn't seem to be a goer either :rolleyes:



I wish, probably make a fool of myself by spilling coffee everywhere or something:pac:



We didn't pay less than the amount owed. We paid the amount requested by the electricity company - e.g. Mar + April = €150 of elec used, pay €40 May 1st, €45 Jun 1st, €60 Jul 1st etc., You're right I should have chased this as they were leaving, but I didn't.

This wasn't a bill anyone of us was expecting to be fair, but it clearly showed that part of the total closing bill accured when they were living there. Asked them nicely to pay their share a few times, got nowhere and they started to throw BS back at me - so I figured lets see if I can get a court / 3rd party to help settle.

Does not seem economically viable to go down any path. No guarantee SCC would hear the case. Sin é as they say...

You were paying what was asked for, but it clearly wasn't enough to cover your usage.
In your example, by the time the next bill comes in for May and June, you've only paid off 95 out of the 150 owing, and so the debt mounts.


You are focusing on this having become a problem because you had to close the account, but really it was there all along and all three of you were content to ignore it.

Irish_peppa

Op You will most likely never see the money as all the previous posters have said simply put it down to lesson learned. I had a very similar experience to you. He said he couldnt pay for xx months after he moved out... Time went by sent him text saying did you ever get a chance to sort that 160 you owed me... No No cash.. Unexpected car expenses... Another few months (i knew at this stage he wouldnt pay me a cent but I just wanted to see what he would say)
Another text... Hi XXX any chance you could sort that money im really stuck here. Anything at all. He replied that he could pay 5 euro a week which was silly.... I said sure 5 euro a week was better then nothing and I was happy to take it. The reply was "thats stupid will take ages to pay, ill pay you later in year" Did he? Of course not. Any text I sent after was ignored.
There are some people even if they have the money they will not give it back to you. You have learned a very valuable lesson here on flatmates and rentals. Never a borrower or lender be.

nuac

Mod
Difficult claim to formulate and prove. Will leave open for general discussion subject to forum rules/B]

FridaysWell

wench wrote: »

You were paying what was asked for, but it clearly wasn't enough to cover your usage.
In your example, by the time the next bill comes in for May and June, you've only paid off 95 out of the 150 owing, and so the debt mounts.


You are focusing on this having become a problem because you had to close the account, but really it was there all along and all three of you were content to ignore it.

It isn't a great example to be fair, but eventually the monthly payments increase so that they cover off the total amount, and the balance is +/- a few euro. This was the case when we got to Feb, but after a spike in usage over March / April (WFH) the monthly amounts increased as a result but there was still an amount outstanding when the account was closed.

We didn't ignore it - payments were debited from my account as per the utility company's bills. If none of us moved out we wouldn't be having this discussion. But we did, bill was closed, there is an amount outstanding, they used the electricity, should pay their share etc., etc., I've explained it over the last few pages.

You're ignoring the fact that they aren't paying what they should be.

Irish_peppa wrote: »

Op You will most likely never see the money as all the previous posters have said simply put it down to lesson learned. I had a very similar experience to you. He said he couldnt pay for xx months after he moved out... Time went by sent him text saying did you ever get a chance to sort that 160 you owed me... No No cash.. Unexpected car expenses... Another few months (i knew at this stage he wouldnt pay me a cent but I just wanted to see what he would say)
Another text... Hi XXX any chance you could sort that money im really stuck here. Anything at all. He replied that he could pay 5 euro a week which was silly.... I said sure 5 euro a week was better then nothing and I was happy to take it. The reply was "thats stupid will take ages to pay, ill pay you later in year" Did he? Of course not. Any text I sent after was ignored.
There are some people even if they have the money they will not give it back to you. You have learned a very valuable lesson here on flatmates and rentals. Never a borrower or lender be.

Hopefully karma catches up with that person.

davindub

FridaysWell wrote: »

**** 'em. Clear that there isn't a legal path that is worth it for the amount of money involved. Will bug the 'doing the right thing' side of me but I'll get over it in time.

Thanks all for the replies.

Alternatively just go to the DC without a solicitor and try the best you can.

It's not exactly Matlock but it won't be overly complicated either.

If they don't pay the court award, you have 0 chance of collecting though.

Ginger83

Maybe you need to shame them into paying.

wench

FridaysWell wrote: »

You're ignoring the fact that they aren't paying what they should be.

I think everyone agrees they owe it, but you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting it out of them.
I'd suggest you build a bridge...

jayzee

I remember being owed a lot of small amounts of money from a variety of small businesses and the advice I got on collection was to just keep turning up and asking for it, you may eventually shame them into it. Most paid eventually. I wrote to them individually to advise that I would call one more time and after that it would be handed over to my solicitor.
I did issue solicitors letters to the the outstanding debtors and they all paid.

jayzee

jayzee wrote: »

I remember being owed a lot of small amounts of money from a variety of small businesses and the advice I got on collection was to just keep turning up and asking for it, you may eventually shame them into it. Most paid eventually. I wrote to them individually to advise that I would call one more time and after that it would be handed over to my solicitor.
I did issue solicitors letters to the the outstanding debtors and they all paid.

Business v individual. Different ball game.

davindub wrote: »

Alternatively just go to the DC without a solicitor and try the best you can.

It's not exactly Matlock but it won't be overly complicated either.

If they don't pay the court award, you have 0 chance of collecting though.

He has zero chance of winning. No contract, no evidence of payments made, no witnesses and worst of all, a complicated system that was ad hoc on a bill that's in his name

MacDanger

These people sound like c*nts tbf.

If you're hell bent on doing something, you could send get a solicitor to send a "threatening" letter saying you're taking them to court, etc. (even though you'd have no intention of doing so). It *might* scare them into paying up depending on the individuals involved. I've no idea what a solicitor would charge for sending such a letter though

Best advice is to just leave it and hope that karma catches up with them sooner or later

davindub

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Business v individual. Different ball game.



He has zero chance of winning. No contract, no evidence of payments made, no witnesses and worst of all, a complicated system that was ad hoc on a bill that's in his name

I hope you never make those arguments in a civil trial. It might be newsworthy!

Of course there was a contract, somehow or another electricity was consumed by the plaintiff.

That is about all an 90 euro argument merits.

noodler

Ignore OP.

You are right to expect it.

Some thanks you get for handling the whole thing in your name

davindub

davindub wrote: »

I hope you never make those arguments in a civil trial. It might be newsworthy!

Of course there was a contract, somehow or another electricity was consumed by the plaintiff.

That is about all an 90 euro argument merits.

And that means they owe money and agreed to pay? I hope you put more into your arguments.

My licensees have an inclusive rate. Plenty have. That's why all the bills aresolely in my name and not theirs.

ec18

at the end of the day their position will be that they had paid all bills up to when they left the apartment.

You are coming to them months later saying actually, sorry the bill in my name is more than i expected give me 90 euro. That's most likely their point of view

davindub

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

And that means they owe money and agreed to pay? I hope you put more into your arguments.

My licensees have an inclusive rate. Plenty have. That's why all the bills aresolely in my name and not theirs.

They are not your licensees so your argument fails there. They were sharing a tenancy and related bills.

FridaysWell

ec18 wrote: »

at the end of the day their position will be that they had paid all bills up to when they left the apartment.

You are coming to them months later saying actually, sorry the bill in my name is more than i expected give me 90 euro. That's most likely their point of view

Which is fair, they did pay their share of the bills up to when they left the apartment. The timing of this is unfortunate, and I should have cleared this before they left, but I didn't as I was not expecting to have to close the account.

Issue arose when I closed the account it clearly showed an amount outstanding from when they were sharing the apartment with me. The right and fair thing in my mind was to ask them to pay their share - timing is unfortunate but it was in black and white on the bill. If it was in any way ambiguous I wouldn't have asked for anything - I'm just trying to get a bill paid fairly, most reasonable people could see the same.

davindub

davindub wrote: »

They are not your licensees so your argument fails there. They were sharing a tenancy and related bills.

Prove it.

mickdw

FridaysWell wrote: »

Which is fair, they did pay their share of the bills up to when they left the apartment. The timing of this is unfortunate, and I should have cleared this before they left, but I didn't as I was not expecting to have to close the account.

Issue arose when I closed the account it clearly showed an amount outstanding from when they were sharing the apartment with me. The right and fair thing in my mind was to ask them to pay their share - timing is unfortunate but it was in black and white on the bill. If it was in any way ambiguous I wouldn't have asked for anything - I'm just trying to get a bill paid fairly, most reasonable people could see the same.

Closing the account shouldnt really effect what they owed so your original error was charging them the incorrect settlement amount when leaving. You say you know how the level pay works but clearly didnt zero in on the true useage, more just split the bill as received in 3.

FridaysWell

mickdw wrote: »

Closing the account shouldnt really effect what they owed so your original error was charging them the incorrect settlement amount when leaving. You say you know how the level pay works but clearly didnt zero in on the true useage, more just split the bill as received in 3.

You're right it didn't, I made an error in not asking for that amount when they left - live and learn. Still reasonable to ask that they pay for what they used.

Splitting the bill 3 ways when we lived together was fine, its when someone moves out the complications arise I suppose.

Either way my persistence paid off - they've sent what they owe to me after I said that I'd be happy to take this further since they weren't playing ball or being reasonable.

rock22

FridaysWell wrote: »

..

Either way my persistence paid off - they've sent what they owe to me..

Glad you got it settled.

mickdw

FridaysWell wrote: »

You're right it didn't, I made an error in not asking for that amount when they left - live and learn. Still reasonable to ask that they pay for what they used.

Splitting the bill 3 ways when we lived together was fine, its when someone moves out the complications arise I suppose.

Either way my persistence paid off - they've sent what they owe to me after I said that I'd be happy to take this further since they weren't playing ball or being reasonable.

Excellent.

wench

Glad they came around

FridaysWell

Thanks all for the replies - I guess it wasn't a vintage legal discussion but bits were interesting nevertheless.

El Tarangu

OP - I was certainly doubting you, and didn't think you would get anywhere, and as such genuinely didn't want to see you expending any time or energy on it fruitlessly, but I must say that I am glad that you got sorted