Lockdown in State of Victoria: a threat to democracy?

biko

Maybe you're unclear of what democracy is?
It is simply "a form of government in which the people have the authority to choose their governing legislation".

Risteard81

biko wrote: »

Maybe you're unclear of what democracy is?
It is simply "a form of government in which the people have the authority to choose their governing legislation".

They've also suspended the state parliament.

And illegally forcing people to wear stupid gas masks outside.

Dan Andrews is guilty of treason and must be punished accordingly to a more severe extent than currently permitted by law.

biko

Risteard81 wrote: »

And illegally forcing people to wear stupid gas masks outside.

I think it'd be better if you didn't exaggerate.

They aren't gas masks.
As to your claim of legal standing - at the outset of the pandemic, the government declared a state of emergency.
It invoked section 198 of the Public Health and Wellbeing Act 2008 and conferred on Chief Health Officer Professor Brett Sutton emergency powers to make directions to prevent the spread of COVID-19 as he or his delegates saw fit.
The powers, still in effect, are broad and include restrictions on movement and, now, compulsory masks in public.

Risteard81

biko wrote: »

government declared a state of emergency.

I refer to it as a State of Terror.

I have family living in Melbourne so am very familiar with what's going on there.

feargale

political analyst wrote: »

Considering that the fatality rate for Covid is a fraction of 1%, the proportionality of the Covid restrictions imposed by Daniel Andrews - and by governments in other jurisdictions throughout the world - is questionable.

Please tell us what price you put on a life, or on the lives of 1% of the world's population.

political analyst wrote: »

I suspect that democracy is under threat in the State of Victoria - and Daniel Andrews' slight resemblance to Kim Jong-un certainly doesn't help public perception!

Oh sweet Jesus! Another one who judges politicians on the shape of their faces! Elvis for president!

Peregrinus

sandbelter wrote: »

The Victorian Constitution doesn't have an equivalent of Section 3 of the Commonwealth Constitution ensuring the right to judicial oversight. Effectively what you have is internment without trial. Bureaucrats are making laws, police are enforcing them with no court appeal.

For the record, the lady the arrested was in Ballarat which is not subject to Stage 4 lock down, she was in zone 3 and compliance with local Covid was explicitly mentioned in the face book posting. The terms of the conditions of the march were identical to the earlier Black Lives matter marches.

Parliament has not sat since March and won't until March 2021, the Victorian government was hoping to extend the rule by decree until Sept 2021 . . .

Risteard81 wrote: »

They've also suspended the state parliament.

Not to be offensive, but I stopped reading at this point. The Victorian Parliament most recently sat on Friday. There are no sitting days this week - it's a scheduled break - but parliamentary committees are meeting. Both houses are sitting again next week. This "suspended for a year" claim has absolutely no basis in reality; Parliament has been functioning as normal. It's had normal sitting dates for the whole of 2020, except for the month of May. Where are you this "suspended for a year, to be extended" nonsnse from from?

I'm not going to fact-check your other claims (and I'm not saying they are all wrong). But this particular claim is so far from reality, and is so easliy debunked, that I have to suspect that you are getting your information from sources that are unreliable, if not downright dishonest, and that they are giving you a wholly false picture of what is happening in Victoria, and how Victorians feel about it. I fear you may be a victim of fake news.

Dravokivich

Risteard81 wrote: »

I refer to it as a State of Terror.

I have family living in Melbourne so am very familiar with what's going on there.

How? I've friends living in Australia and by all accounts, they don't seem to be under any kind of threat from the state.

Peregrinus

Risteard81 wrote: »

I have family living in Melbourne so am very familiar with what's going on there.

Not that familiar, if you're under the impression that Parliament has been suspended.

HBC08

Del Griffith wrote: »

Australia is bat **** crazy about this virus. I've a friend over there who moved from VIC to QLD - met getting off the plane by army and forced military escort direct to a hotel where they were monitored to ensure absolute quarantine for 2 weeks, at their own expense. Completely OTT.

Ive an Australian friend who was on a repatriation flight back into QLD from Peru in April who had the same,she was happy to do it.They dont fook about over there.

Gael23

Australia is pursuing a policy of eradication which they don’t have to look far to see it won’t work

Pauliedragon

Queensland is a bit mad aswell. A woman from Canberrra which hasn't had a case in 60 days travelled there to say goodbye to her dying father. He died while she was in quarantine and they wouldn't let her got to the funeral. They allowed her a private viewing in the funeral home in full PPE with security guards around her.

Peregrinus

Gael23 wrote: »

Australia is pursuing a policy of eradication which they don’t have to look far to see it won’t work

Correction: Most Australian states are pursuing a strategy of zero community transmission (though Victoria isn't).

Western Australia, South Australia and the Northern Territory have pretty well acheived it. Queensland is getting there.

So, yeah, with a bit of luck and a fair following wind it can be done. And the sooner and more effectively you do it the less it costs you. Social restrictions have an economic cost, but less of a cost than uncontrolled infection.

mandrake04

Tasmania hasn’t had a new case in 30 days, no active cases.

Even NSW pop 7.5m has 51 cases in the last 7 days, 115 active cases. 15 in hospital and 6 in ICU. Almost everything is open since June/July, You can get just a beer no problem just social distance. Even the brothels are open.

political analyst

feargale wrote: »

Please tell us what price you put on a life, or on the lives of 1% of the world's population.

Travel by motor vehicle isn't banned in areas where there are high numbers of fatal accidents.

Chocolate fiend

Risteard81 wrote: »

I refer to it as a State of Terror.

I have family living in Melbourne so am very familiar with what's going on there.

Some of us actually live here, and are not relying on second hand information. No need for your hysteria, it doesn't help.

Risteard81

Chocolate fiend wrote: »

Some of us actually live here, and are not relying on second hand information. No need for your hysteria, it doesn't help.

I lived there much longer than you have.

State of Terror is accurate.

Chocolate fiend

Risteard81 wrote: »

I lived there much longer than you have.

State of Terror is accurate.

Do you live here now?

feargale

political analyst wrote: »

Travel by motor vehicle isn't banned in areas where there are high numbers of fatal accidents.

No but travelling at high speeds generally is.

Though some people would probably see that as yet another infringement of fundamental human rights. :rolleyes:

Peregrinus

political analyst wrote: »

Travel by motor vehicle isn't banned in areas where there are high numbers of fatal accidents.

Actually, this is a good example, but it works the opposite of the way you intend.

Motoring isn't banned, but it is heavily restricted and regulatated by a vast body of rules, regulations and punishments - far more than we have for pandemic protection. We have driver testing, driver licensing, compulsory insurance, compulsory vehicle inspection and certification, speed limits, traffic restrictions, parking restrictions, laws requiring motorists to identify themselves to the police and to prove their compliance with licensing and insurance requirements - the list is endless. Plus there's a massive and permanent investment in infrastructure to minimise the risks from traffic - road markings, road signs, pedestrian bridges, underpasses, bypasses. Cities have been substantially reconfigured to manage traffic risk, at huge expense. And, even now, the police spend far more time enforcing traffic laws against more people than they spend on enforcing quarantine laws and other pandemic restrictions.

It's a permanent and ever-growing vast body of laws, measures and penalties that outweighs by an order of magnitude the temporary measures taken to control the pandemic, despite the fact that currently the pandemic is the worse threat to life. Road deaths in Victoria average around 250 per year; the state has already had more than three times that number of CV19 deaths this year, and we're only 8 months in.

So, no, this is not disproportionate. Not at all.

Paddygreen

Victoria is the example we should follow. Time the Irish leadership took off the velvet glove. Admonish those who don’t follow the rules.

Strumms

Paddygreen wrote: »

Victoria is the example we should follow. Time the Irish leadership took off the velvet glove. Admonish those who don’t follow the rules.

Put a deterrent in place, 36 hours detention down the curragh, fûck them.

Peregrinus

Paddygreen wrote: »

Victoria is the example we should follow. Time the Irish leadership took off the velvet glove. Admonish those who don’t follow the rules.

Mmm. It hasn't yet worked for Victoria. Surely we should be following the examples that have worked?

Chocolate fiend

Peregrinus wrote: »

Mmm. It hasn't yet worked for Victoria. Surely we should be following the examples that have worked?

It is starting to work, 30 something cases yesterday, things are going the right direction.

Peregrinus

Chocolate fiend wrote: »

It is starting to work, 30 something cases yesterday, things are going the right direction.

Oh, it started to work a while ago. But I think people won't think it has worked (as opposed to thinking "it is working") unil Victorian infection and transmission rates are comparable to those in neighbouring states, and Victorian travel and social distancing restrictions can be scaled back. And, while they're going in the right direction, they are not getting to that point as fast as they initially hoped.

Diarmuid

Paddygreen wrote: »

Victoria is the example we should follow. Time the Irish leadership took off the velvet glove. Admonish those who don’t follow the rules.

That's a borderline fascist approach