The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

hatrickpatrick

christy c wrote: »

@hatrickpatrick, quotes are all over the place. I'm asking how SF are possibly the answer to out problems. Their solution to the pension time bomb is that the demographics would look after themselves. How could anyone with their head in the clouds like this be the answer?

I haven't looked into the pension issue since the election so I'd rather do some re-reading on this and respond tomorrow or Wednesday if that's ok. As regards other problems, I've already explained this - SF want to return to the 20th century model of social housing in which the state directly hires contractors, builds housing, and rents them to the general public at affordable prices. None of the other parties want to do this because they don't ideologically believe in public housing as a model or policy.

To go back to my doctor analogy from earlier, let's imagine once again that you have a gaping wound. One doctor is saying "well the last time you had a gaping wound, we used sutures and stitches to close it, and you recovered. Let's try that again". The other doctors are saying "well the last time you had a gaping wound, we used sutures and stitches to close it, and you recovered. Let's try some vitamin pills or some physiotherapy to see if it'll help you recover from this, ignoring the fact that you're still losing blood.".

And the quiet bit which they won't say out loud, being "we can't stitch up the wound and stop the bleeding, because our other patients need blood transfusions for elective surgeries and we're willing to let you bleed to death so they can have it". That's what FFG are saying by refusing to build social housing and by essentially telling young people that they have to continue paying obscenely high rents because the property owning class would rather rake in passive income than do something actually productive to earn their living.

To summarise, and I really don't know what else I can tell you if you don't get it from this one simple line:

SF want to relieve pressure on the private housing market by building gigantic amounts of public housing, just like Ireland did from the 1930s to the 1980s. FF and FG do not want to do this. Ergo, to those who believe that a massive Simms-esque social housing program is the answer to Ireland's cost of living issue, of the big three parties SF is the only one proposing to solve the problem. FF and FG are not. And the quiet bit out loud part of the analogy is that it's widely believed that the reason FF and FG won't do it is because their cronies are, by and large, the people who are charging such obscene rents at the moment. A case of non-jobs for the boys, if you like. "Your suffering is ok with us because the people we actually care about are the people your income is being decimated to line the pockets of".

I don't think I can put it any more simply, to be honest. Most young people want the state to intervene in the building of housing and the determination of rents to the same extent that it did when Herbert Simms built tens of thousands of flats and houses in the 1930s and his successors continued to do so until the late 1980s. Sinn Fein have stated that they want to do this. FF and FG have stated that they categorically do not want to do this. Ergo, of the big three, the former is the one young people are choosing to vote for.

Person A wants a bottle of milk. Shop A is selling bottles of milk. Shops B and C are not. Person A therefore does their shopping in Shop A.

Is this really so difficult to understand?

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tbf you havnt mentioned the ira,and its commendable....but it was the number one issue on last week of the election here,and what ultimately pushed me to put em number 1 (was going indo 1st orginally)



Im not really sure,how to explain it more,its not their pension plan or otherwise i decided on,its pretty much gauranteed pensions wont exist in 40 odd years anyway,so wont affect me......whereas i have friends,cousin,people i know barely staving off homelessness/a bad breakdown in a car could wipe 0them out,(pcp is a scam btw,which fg have left get out of control,but for another thread)........not much point in planning for a pension,when alot of us,are prepping to leave again to try make a better future elsewhere

I am using their pension plan as an example of their stupidity (there's plenty more), and saying that if they are stupid enough to believe that, then they won't be solving any of the issues you mention.

And by the way, their pension plan will affect you. If we follow the SF plan, you will have the double whammy of paying higher taxes now to fund current pensioners, plus the exciting prospect of no or a drastically reduced pension by the time you hit pension age.

christy c

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Is this really so difficult to understand?

The problem with the SF plan is that you have to take it as a whole. Let's pretend they have the best housing policy in the world, that is absolutely useless if accompanied by brain dead and naive plans which SF have clearly shown that they have.

christy c

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Which do you think,going on the posting here is a more pressing issue,the pemsion issue or the thoysands on homeless lists and the estimated 400K people in the renttrap of being unable to afford anymore increases and almost no savings



Like it may sound blasé but only 1 seems a looming issue to.me anyway

Again I am using the pension age as an example of their stupidity, anyway naive enough to believe what Mary Lou does will not be solving homelessness or people being in rent traps.

hatrickpatrick

christy c wrote: »

I am using their pension plan as an example of their stupidity (there's plenty more), and saying that if they are stupid enough to believe that, then they won't be solving any of the issues you mention.

They want to, though. Or at least they say they want to.

Neither of the other two parties even say they want to. The most recent party we had in government told my generation that we should be "excited" at the horrific downgrade of paying more than we do now in rent for studio apartments, for bedrooms with a kitchen shared between 40 strangers (Bartra's horrific Dun Laoghaire plan - radically altered by ABP when appealed, but the FG government were totally ok with the original proposal).

Again, to use my doctor and bleeding wound analogy, suppose you had three doctors - two of whom refused to sew up your wound, and the third of whom was offering to try, but had a bad record of botching other surgeries.

If you're facing certain death by bleeding out and 2/3 doctors are refusing to do anything to fix it, you're going to go with the one who has offered to at least try. Even if their previous surgeries were disastrous, assuming your claims regarding SF's pension age policy are accurate which as I say I don't want to get into tonight as I haven't looked it up. Even if you're right, the fact is that if you know you're about to bleed to death and only one out of three doctors is willing to sew up your wound rather than let you bleed out, you're going to choose that one to operate on you. Every other factor rapidly becomes irrelevant.

And by the way, their pension plan will affect you. If we follow the SF plan, you will have the double whammy of paying higher taxes now to fund current pensioners, plus the exciting prospect of no or a drastically reduced pension by the time you hit pension age.

None of that is going to matter to anyone who ends up dying by suicide long before they reach pension age because their lives have utterly and completely fallen apart. Do you have any idea what it's like for people to have to move back into their family home on the other side of the country after spending ten years building an independent life for themselves? This is happening to tens of thousands of young Irish people. Now. Today. Happening. You might call it naive and short sighted, but to go back to the doctor analogy, let's assume that sewing up the wound now, today, will have a side effect of likely causing you to develop skin cancer in thirty years because of the material used.

Don't you think you'd still probably take that risk given that the alternative is bleeding to death here, now, today?

hatrickpatrick

christy c wrote: »

The problem with the SF plan is that you have to take it as a whole. Let's pretend they have the best housing policy in the world, that is absolutely useless if accompanied by brain dead and naive plans which SF have clearly shown that they have.

Not for most of my generation, it isn't. You clearly don't realise just how much of an emergency the rent inflation really is if you don't understand that my generation would, for the most part, be willing to put up with a whole pile of utterly horrific government policies if that was the price to pay for removing the boot of crucifying rent prices from their backs.

Many in my generation were happier and better off during the recession because rents were so low compared to today. That's despite the unemployment or under-employment which most faced. The cost of living relative to income was so much lower that it wasn't as horrible a situation to be in.

christy c

christy c wrote: »

Again I am using the pension age as an example of their stupidity, anyway naive enough to believe what Mary Lou does will not be solving homelessness or people being in rent traps.

Respectfully il disagree,


Build Social housing is the solution....we have councils buying up housing and crediting it as social housing....this deosnt increase,the supply of housing,only decreases supply of housing for rent.....if you increase the supply side of rental market,and reduce the demand (by taking HAP receipants out of market into social housing),basic econmics tells you prices will fall

christy c

@hatrickpatrick. Look, I know there are problems, and i said that i understand why someone would vote SF. But using your doctor analogy, I'm asking what hope they have of stopping the bleeding? Given that they thought the cancer tumour would look after itself. The patient could cross their fingers and hope, but not likely to work.

christy c

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Not for most of my generation, it isn't. You clearly don't realise just how much of an emergency the rent inflation really is if you don't understand that my generation would, for the most part, be willing to put up with a whole pile of utterly horrific government policies if that was the price to pay for removing the boot of crucifying rent prices from their backs.

Many in my generation were happier and better off during the recession because rents were so low compared to today. That's despite the unemployment or under-employment which most faced. The cost of living relative to income was so much lower that it wasn't as horrible a situation to be in.

What horrific policies would they be willing to put up with? How many of your generation (i think I'm around the same age as you) were happy when they didn't have a job during the recession? Or had to emigrate?

But why is the choice the status quo or lunacy proposed by the likes of Pearse Doherty? Why not radically different housing plus some sane policies to accompany it?

hatrickpatrick

christy c wrote: »

@hatrickpatrick. Look, I know there are problems, and i said that i understand why someone would vote SF. But using your doctor analogy, I'm asking what hope they have of stopping the bleeding? Given that they thought the cancer tumour would look after itself. The patient could cross their fingers and hope, but not likely to work.

Ok! Now we're getting somewhere. The patient could cross their fingers and hope, but not likely to work.

Not likely to work.

Not likely.

Do you not realise how this is preferable to "100% certain to not work because the decision is to literally take no action at all and let you bleed to death without any medical intervention"?

hatrickpatrick

christy c wrote: »

What horrific policies would they be willing to put up with? How many of your generation (i think I'm around the same age as you) were happy when they didn't have a job during the recession? Or had to emigrate?

Nobody was happy under those circumstances. Many were still a lot happier than they are now. Friends of mine could afford to live close to Dublin City Centre on part time shop worker incomes in flat shares with one or two others back in 2013. Many of these people have been forced to move home with their families despite now working full time hours in proper careers as opposed to student jobs, because the rate of rent inflation has outstripped income so horrifically fast. Every single one of those people is voting for Sinn Fein.

But why is the choice the status quo or lunacy proposed by the likes of Pearse Doherty? Why not radically different housing plus some sane policies to accompany it?

Because Sinn Fein are currently the only party advocating for this, who haven't utterly burned their trust with this generation by betraying them. Many SF supporters I know would vote for another party with the same radical leftist housing policies without SF's baggage in the morning if such a party existed, but at the moment it simply doesn't. As I've mentioned before, Sol-PBP isn't seen as viable by many in my generation (something I disagree with personally, but it is what it is) and the only untested option left is the SocDems, which I've repeatedly acknowledged I don't understand the lack of enthusiasm for.

Let me ask you a question: If you were one of the people I'm talking about, which party would you vote for? If your priority was affordable housing and you'd ruled out FF, FG, Green and Labour because they had repeatedly betrayed their election promises to you over the past decade - who would you turn to as your next attempt to vote for someone who would turn things around? Out of the current choices, what's left? Most young people won't vote for independents (again, something I disagree with but there you go) so what else would you do if you were one of the people I described in my examples?

You keep asking "why SF" but you don't seem willing to acknowledge that if one wants a radical leftist sledgehammer taken to the current housing model, there's no one else to vote for.

christy c

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ok! Now we're getting somewhere. The patient could cross their fingers and hope, but not likely to work.

Not likely to work.

Not likely.

Do you not realise how this is preferable to "100% certain to not work because the decision is to literally take no action at all and let you bleed to death without any medical intervention"?

As I said numerous times, I understand why they would vote for SF.

But using your analogy again, say SF want to treat your wound with an angle grinder, followed by an intensive session with a chainsaw. Do you agree that is the way forward? Or can you acknowledge that maybe we don't volunteer for something so stupid and instead see if doctor 1 or 2 do something, or hope that a 4th doctor enters the room, or do 99 other things that sounds better? I think you are underestimating the nonsense SF have come out with over the years.

christy c

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Nobody was happy under those circumstances. Many were still a lot happier than they are now. Friends of mine could afford to live close to Dublin City Centre on part time shop worker incomes in flat shares with one or two others back in 2013. Many of these people have been forced to move home with their families despite now working full time hours in proper careers as opposed to student jobs, because the rate of rent inflation has outstripped income so horrifically fast. Every single one of those people is voting for Sinn Fein.



Because Sinn Fein are currently the only party advocating for this, who haven't utterly burned their trust with this generation by betraying them. Many SF supporters I know would vote for another party with the same radical leftist housing policies without SF's baggage in the morning if such a party existed, but at the moment it simply doesn't. As I've mentioned before, Sol-PBP isn't seen as viable by many in my generation (something I disagree with personally, but it is what it is) and the only untested option left is the SocDems, which I've repeatedly acknowledged I don't understand the lack of enthusiasm for.

Let me ask you a question: If you were one of the people I'm talking about, which party would you vote for? If your priority was affordable housing and you'd ruled out FF, FG, Green and Labour because they had repeatedly betrayed their election promises to you over the past decade - who would you turn to as your next attempt to vote for someone who would turn things around? Out of the current choices, what's left? Most young people won't vote for independents (again, something I disagree with but there you go) so what else would you do if you were one of the people I described in my examples?

You keep asking "why SF" but you don't seem willing to acknowledge that if one wants a radical leftist sledgehammer taken to the current housing model, there's no one else to vote for.

Again I've said multiple times that I understand why someone would vote SF.

Well anyone who had a trade and could not find any work at all in the recession were not happier.
If I was someone paying extortionate rent, and working in say, a multinational that SF wanted to give the two fingers to, then I would not be voting SF. Even if I did not work in a multinational, I would know the importance of them and not vote SF. Maybe an independent, who knows.

But why not give the message to SF, we want the sledge hammer, but p!ss off with your other populist nonsense. This way they are only going to accelerate down this path.

blanch152

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Ok! Now we're getting somewhere. The patient could cross their fingers and hope, but not likely to work.

Not likely to work.

Not likely.

Do you not realise how this is preferable to "100% certain to not work because the decision is to literally take no action at all and let you bleed to death without any medical intervention"?

Sinn Fein's policies will solve the homeless issue, but not in the way that they or you intend.

Once they have destroyed the economy, the resumption of emigration will ensure that the remaining homeless can be housed in the empty houses up and down the country.

A sad outcome, but one which they will trumpet as a success.

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

Sinn Fein's policies will solve the homeless issue, but not in the way that they or you intend.

Once they have destroyed the economy, the resumption of emigration will ensure that the remaining homeless can be housed in the empty houses up and down the country.

A sad outcome, but one which they will trumpet as a success.

In your opinion!

This has been another great few days for SF and they never had to do anything.

The country has now seen FF are not fit to run a bath never mind a country and FGs leader is corrupt and the rest of FG don't care or are too scared to say anything.

I'd say Mary Lou had a few glasses of wine with a big smile last night

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

Whats the point of this econmic sucess if people cant afford to live here


60% population live in households earning under 60K per annum....average house price is circa 300K.......a schoolchild can see,this is unsustainable

People lives are being effected by this,and we are told to.suck it up and not vote for those wanting to sort it??

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/house-prices-in-ireland-decline-for-first-time-since-2012-1.4126842#:~:text=The%20property%20website's%20latest%20survey,decline%20on%20the%20third%20quarter.


I can't find your 60% under 60k statistic, but you are wrong about average house prices - they are only €250k not €300k, makes a big difference to your figures.

Idbatterim

They wont touch the pittance known as lpt, its a toxic time bomb politically. About a euro a day or so for an average property... years of dancing around that, to avoid political fallout and backlash , mainly from the elderly

But seemingly no amount of money or rental increases is enough for the poor and workimlng poor to have to accept.

Then you have the sacred cows of the free houses for life, medical card, welfare chrostmas bonus. No womlnder one group are fcuked! Its immoral and disgusting. I stopped posting in these forums for ages, because time will tell what will happen and its an echo chamber. One of the primary reasons is, i am as good as certain sf will win the most seats next election, based primarily on housing ( exact same scenario as last time, except come the next election, the housing issue will be even worse) the question then is though, will we simply get another ffg crap or will one of them go in with sf. A point will come, when they wont be able to ignore true impact this is having on hundreds of thousands peoples lives..

One other thing, if the media werent beholden to property and the advertiding revenue, there woukd be a different narrative and I think this situation woukd have totally boiled over by now...

Yeah_Right

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Jesus Christ. You talk as if these people are voting for SF so they can have an extra holiday in the summer and not literally because they are under threat of losing their home and their hard earned independence. Are you seriously that unaware of what's happening to the rent generation right now?

When you talk about your generation, is it 20s to early 30s?
You mentioned that you had friends who are paying €1650 for a 1 bedroom flat. Why don't they house share? I did that into my early 30s. Had a great big place in Ranelagh with a few others. We were each paying between €600 and €750 plus bills. If we had wanted to live on our own in that neighbourhood, it would have cost a lot more. Or we could move somewhere further out and pay less.

Above you made the comment about an extra summer holiday. How about not taking a summer holiday for a few years and saving some money for a mortgage? Its called making sacrifices to achieve your goals. Rather than expecting me to pay for your lifestyle.

blanch152

Yeah_Right wrote: »

When you talk about your generation, is it 20s to early 30s?
You mentioned that you had friends who are paying €1650 for a 1 bedroom flat. Why don't they house share? I did that into my early 30s. Had a great big place in Ranelagh with a few others. We were each paying between €600 and €750 plus bills. If we had wanted to live on our own in that neighbourhood, it would have cost a lot more. Or we could move somewhere further out and pay less.

Above you made the comment about an extra summer holiday. How about not taking a summer holiday for a few years and saving some money for a mortgage? Its called making sacrifices to achieve your goals. Rather than expecting me to pay for your lifestyle.

Hattrick believes that the current young generation need their Netflix, their lattes and their skiing breaks for their mental health. It is their entitlement.

They don't realise that some of us now living in 4-bed semis in the suburbs didn't have any holiday for the first six years of marriage while struggling to pay a mortgage, took sandwiches on the bus to work because we could neither afford a car nor lunch. That sacrifice, that hard work is what it took most of today's 40 and 50-somethings to own a house.

dundalkfc10

blanch152 wrote: »

Hattrick believes that the current young generation need their Netflix, their lattes and their skiing breaks for their mental health. It is their entitlement.

They don't realise that some of us now living in 4-bed semis in the suburbs didn't have any holiday for the first six years of marriage while struggling to pay a mortgage, took sandwiches on the bus to work because we could neither afford a car nor lunch. That sacrifice, that hard work is what it took most of today's 40 and 50-somethings to own a house.

More fool you, I've been on loads holidays and have a 4 bed house with both me and my partner earning 40,000 a year.

I didn't have a car so bought close to the town so I wouldn't have to pay for a bus, sensible decisions ya see

Just because you choose to live in the suburbs don't meant ****e, you could have lived closer to town or bought a smaller house.

I've never went skiing, must try it

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Hattrick believes that the current young generation need their Netflix, their lattes and their skiing breaks for their mental health. It is their entitlement.

They don't realise that some of us now living in 4-bed semis in the suburbs didn't have any holiday for the first six years of marriage while struggling to pay a mortgage, took sandwiches on the bus to work because we could neither afford a car nor lunch. That sacrifice, that hard work is what it took most of today's 40 and 50-somethings to own a house.

Yes i just knew it was drinking lattes was the reason people are paying 40% disposible income in rent


Jesus lads,he outlining quite deeply why people are voting for x,and yous are simply unwilling to take on constructive,high quality info about what needs to change


People build/bought houses,raised families off etc one income in the age bracket you mention....your comparing apples and oranges to explain to noone,only yourselves,in place of accepting detailed taught out info...why people are abandoning tradional parties

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes i just knew it was drinking lattes was the reason people are paying 40% disposible income in rent


Jesus lads,he outlining quite deeply why people are voting for x,and yous are simply unwilling to take on constructive,high quality info about what needs to change


People build/bought houses,raised families off etc one income in the age bracket you mention....your comparing apples and oranges to explain to noone,only yourselves,in place of accepting detailed taught out info...why people are abandoning tradional parties

It's just more of the 'get up earlier' arrogance coming out. With a fair amount of fingers in the ears 'we know best' arrogance too.

It has been their undoing in the last election and as Hatrickpatrick has pointed out, they have dug in on it and will suffer more for it.

Nobotty

Was there ever a connection between a fine gael voter like Blanch and a Sinn Féin voter though
Chalk and cheese
Completely different ideologies
Whats playing out in these pages is not normal life unless both canvass in their opposing sides heartlands at election time which doesn't happen
Not where I am anyway
I'm starting to like the tit for tat after all
Fascinating as Spock would say

blanch152

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

More fool you, I've been on loads holidays and have a 4 bed house with both me and my partner earning 40,000 a year.

I didn't have a car so bought close to the town so I wouldn't have to pay for a bus, sensible decisions ya see

Just because you choose to live in the suburbs don't meant ****e, you could have lived closer to town or bought a smaller house.

I've never went skiing, must try it

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes i just knew it was drinking lattes was the reason people are paying 40% disposible income in rent


Jesus lads,he outlining quite deeply why people are voting for x,and yous are simply unwilling to take on constructive,high quality info about what needs to change


People build/bought houses,raised families off etc one income in the age bracket you mention....your comparing apples and oranges to explain to noone,only yourselves,in place of accepting detailed taught out info...why people are abandoning tradional parties

Only quoting from what the lad said himself a couple of months back.

As for myself, you don't need to worry about me at all. Plenty of income coming in here now, was talking about a time 30 years ago when sacrifices were made that Hattrick's generation don't want to make. I suppose it shows how the successful management of the economy by various governments over the last three or four decades has changed expectations.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Only quoting from what the lad said himself a couple of months back.

As for myself, you don't need to worry about me at all. Plenty of income coming in here now, was talking about a time 30 years ago when sacrifices were made that Hattrick's generation don't want to make. I suppose it shows how the successful management of the economy by various governments over the last three or four decades has changed expectations.

Who the fcuk is dunfalkfc10,or what relevence has that to anything???

Mate,you can either take on constructive critism,explainations why people adbandoning tradional parties or dismiss them out of hand and console yourself with your own flawed version of reality,it deosnt bother me either way

maccored

blanch152 wrote: »

Only quoting from what the lad said himself a couple of months back.

As for myself, you don't need to worry about me at all. Plenty of income coming in here now, was talking about a time 30 years ago when sacrifices were made that Hattrick's generation don't want to make. I suppose it shows how the successful management of the economy by various governments over the last three or four decades has changed expectations.

you are more out of touch with reality that both the greens and fg combined

blanch152

Nobotty wrote: »

Was there ever a connection between a fine gael voter like Blanch and a Sinn Féin voter though
Chalk and cheese
Completely different ideologies
Whats playing out in these pages is not normal life unless both canvass in their opposing sides heartlands at election time which doesn't happen
Not where I am anyway
I'm starting to like the tit for tat after all
Fascinating as Spock would say

I have kids following the same path in life.

Working hard, paying their way, buying houses with mortgages, not expecting the government to hand everything to them on a plate.

The entitlement culture in this country has gone mad.

Yeah_Right

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes i just knew it was drinking lattes was the reason people are paying 40% disposible income in rent


Jesus lads,he outlining quite deeply why people are voting for x,and yous are simply unwilling to take on constructive,high quality info about what needs to change


People build/bought houses,raised families off etc one income in the age bracket you mention....your comparing apples and oranges to explain to noone,only yourselves,in place of accepting detailed taught out info...why people are abandoning tradional parties

You've mentioned this 40% of their disposable income going to rent a few times. Over 50% of my income goes to the taxman. And SF wants to take more. Why should I sacrifice more when there is a whole generation that won't make any sacrifices. They're not even willing to house share or give up a summer holiday.

Are you referring to the 40s to 50s age bracket? I would have thought that most of that generation would be buying houses and raising families on a 2 income household. I don't know anyone in that age bracket that are in a single income household. Maybe the generation before them.

Idbatterim

the posts about FG to SF might seem mental, but most of my mates have made the shift, paying marginal rate of tax, outrageous housing costs! Something something terrorism years back, doesnt cut the mustard any more. I couldnt care less, people are being finacially terrorised every day, with the FFG ideology. Send all the money to the top and the laughable thing is, their defenders on here, I am fairly sure as ****, arent the ones creaming it off, they are the ones who likely did scrimp and save for years and think ah shure thats what you do! pay for others free houses, be a slave to the government and banks! you wouldnt actually question this insane system? no...

their logic probably influenced by years of brainwashing. The below documentary is excellent! One way or another, **** will hit the fan over this, if it takes SF coming into power to do it or cause financial problems, one way or another, it will force the issue... The biggest concern every budget, how much the welfare class and particularly pensioners will get :rolleyes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL3n59wC8kk&t=76s

Idbatterim

blanch152 wrote: »

I have kids following the same path in life.

Working hard, paying their way, buying houses with mortgages, not expecting the government to hand everything to them on a plate.

The entitlement culture in this country has gone mad.

the entitlement culture has gone mad! supported fully bg fg! handing out free houses to those that dont vote or would never vote for FG and looking for votes from those crucified by housing! LOL! only in Ireland!