The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

mynamejeff

joeguevara wrote: »

Are you saying that the Army Council does not exist?

Why did Mary Lou say that she is not a spokesperson for the IRA, if the IRA did not exist? How can you be a spokesperson for something that doesn't exist?

how do you know she is telling the truth ?

after all …..

blanch152

Hqrry113 wrote: »

How could you say that with sounding like an absolute fool?

Do you see any armed campaign going on?

It may be found by a future spaceship that the earth could be flat.

An equally valid statement as "it may be found that the legislation currently could 'dis-advantage a party'".

When you impose that amount of conditionality on a sentence, anything is possible.

joeguevara

mynamejeff wrote: »

how do you know she is telling the truth ?

after all …..

I think it was a slip of the tongue from her. The Army Council does exist.

JohnnyFlash

joeguevara wrote: »

I think it was a slip of the tongue from her. The Army Council does exist.

Does anyone know who replaced Bobby’Nutting Squad’ Storey on it?

joeguevara

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Does anyone know who replaced Bobby’Nutting Squad’ Storey on it?

P.O Neil Junior

FrancieBrady

Can anyone point to the requirement that the IRA 'cease' to exist?

The IRA were required to cease military operations and to decomission.

According to the monitoring commission set up by both governments this requirement has been met.

The IRA were exhorted and encouraged to get involved in exclusively democratic means..a requirement that has also been met.

Unless both governments through their appointed monitoring agency is lying to us?

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Can anyone point to the requirement that the IRA 'cease' to exist?

The IRA were required to cease military operations and to decomission.

According to the monitoring commission set up by both governments this requirement has been met.

The IRA were exhorted and encouraged to get involved in exclusively democratic means..a requirement that has also been met.

Unless both governments through their appointed monitoring agency is lying to us?

It is denoted as an illegal and terrorist organisation. It is not allowed to operate. Are you saying Francie, that they do not need to cease to exist, which implies that you are saying that they exist.

Very similar to MLM saying '"No. I mean I've no contact or relationship with the IRA"

At least you agree that they exist, albeit that you are implying that there is nothing wrong with them existing.

mynamejeff

Deleted User wrote: »

And yet,grave human rights abuses are going on in magabery and irish government turns a blind eye to it,but can find the resources and time to fly that halawa chap home from egyet??




Same as how everyone claims,the likes of magdalene laundries etc wouldnt occur nowadays,while society turns a blind eye to whats going on in direct provision centres....

just because theres no votes to be got,deosnt mean its not worth talking out for them......shinners used be great to fight the corner for unemployed etc,who dont vote,but they leave those in direct provision to rot and its pure and utterly fcuking wrong

in jail for terrorism and its not comfortable enough for them ? my heart bleeds for them , I agree halawa should have been left to the circumstances he made for himself .
I also find it hard to believe that hard line violent dissent republicans give a thinkers curse about direct provision.
They are in general , from first hand experience violent criminals who will attach themselves to any cause that gives them a victim to target

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

It is denoted as an illegal and terrorist organisation. It is not allowed to operate. Are you saying Francie, that they do not need to cease to exist, which implies that you are saying that they exist.

Very similar to MLM saying '"No. I mean I've no contact or relationship with the IRA"

At least you agree that they exist, albeit that you are implying that there is nothing wrong with them existing.

I cannot and never have proceeded on the basis of allegation and rumour.

I can only go by what the Monitoring bodies say.

I don't know if the IRA exist or not. Nor do I care, once they have fulfilled their obligations to the GFA.

Their political opinion or contributions to the democratic process offers no threat to me as the political opinions of all other democrats don't.

I am willing to, as I stated when accepting and voting for the GFA, to include to include the views all democrats, regardless of my own political views. I do reserve the right to disagree.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I cannot and never have proceeded on the basis of allegation and rumour.

I can only go by what the Monitoring bodies say.

I don't know if the IRA exist or not. Nor do I care, once they have fulfilled their obligations to the GFA.

Their political opinion or contributions to the democratic process offers no threat to me as the political opinions of all other democrats don't.

I am willing to, as I stated when accepting and voting for the GFA, to include to include the views all democrats, regardless of my own political views. I do reserve the right to disagree.

Monitoring bodies say that they exist. So as you say, you must go by that. If they exist, which you say that you must go by, they have not fulfilled their obligations to the GFA in disbanding.

Hqrry113

joeguevara wrote: »

It is denoted as an illegal and terrorist organisation. It is not allowed to operate. Are you saying Francie, that they do not need to cease to exist, which implies that you are saying that they exist.

Very similar to MLM saying '"No. I mean I've no contact or relationship with the IRA"

At least you agree that they exist, albeit that you are implying that there is nothing wrong with them existing.

Well the militarily does not exist that is without doubt.

What do you mean when you say "exist" do you mean do some former members of the IRA still meet and discuss possible peaceful ways to promote the likelihood of a United Ireland then yes you're right they probably do still "exist".

joeguevara

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Well the militarily does not exist that is without doubt.

What do you mean when you say "exist" do you mean do some former members of the IRA still meet and discuss possible peaceful ways to promote the likelihood of a United Ireland then yes you're right they probably do still "exist".

Within 10 minutes you have gone from saying that someone is a fool for saying they could exist to admitting that they still exist to discuss peaceful ways of promoting a likelihood of a United Ireland. Jaysus, I have never seen such progress in this discussion.

Now, an army paramilitary council, still meets....to discuss peace.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

Monitoring bodies say that they exist. So as you say, you must go by that. If they exist, which you say that you must go by, they have not fulfilled their obligations to the GFA in disbanding.

Where was the requirement that they 'disband' is what I asked for.

When you are done, why are the 2 governments not taking action under the terms of this 'requirement'?

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where was the requirement that they 'disband' is what I asked for.

When you are done, why are the 2 governments not taking action under the terms of this 'requirement'?

It is an illegal organistion as designated under the offences against the state act. Goverments as the Legislators have taken that action. They cannot interfere any further due to the separation of powers. Now the judiciary through the special criminal courts can imprison members of that and CAB can take any of their assets. What more do you want?

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

What more do you want?

The requirement that they 'disband' under the GFA. Whenever you are ready.

As I understood it, there was a requirement that they cease military operations and decommission.

blanch152

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Well the militarily does not exist that is without doubt.

What do you mean when you say "exist" do you mean do some former members of the IRA still meet and discuss possible peaceful ways to promote the likelihood of a United Ireland then yes you're right they probably do still "exist".

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/266038/List_of_Proscribed_organisations.pdf

They were still a proscribed organisation as of December 2013. Have they been removed from that list since?

You hardly proscribe something that doesn't exist.

Hqrry113

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Well the militarily does not exist that is without doubt.

What do you mean when you say "exist" do you mean do some former members of the IRA still meet and discuss possible peaceful ways to promote the likelihood of a United Ireland then yes you're right they probably do still "exist".

I was trying to understand what your definition of exist is, If because some former members of the IRA still meet up from time to time (not including former IRA members who are currently in SF)means the IRA "still exist" then yes I agree but the IRA does not exist in any militarily or organized structure.

Hqrry113

joeguevara wrote: »

Within 10 minutes you have gone from saying that someone is a fool for saying they could exist to admitting that they still exist to discuss peaceful ways of promoting a likelihood of a United Ireland. Jaysus, I have never seen such progress in this discussion.

Now, an army paramilitary council, still meets....to discuss peace.

I was trying to understand what your definition of exist is, If because some former members of the IRA still meet up from time to time (not including former IRA members who are currently in SF)means the IRA "still exist" then yes I agree but the IRA does not exist in any militarily or organized structure.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The requirement that they 'disband' under the GFA. Whenever you are ready.

As I understood it, there was a requirement that they cease military operations and decommission.

you specifically requested a requirement of where it says that they cannot disband. I showed you that legislation.

Now youre only interested in specific reference in the GFA. The GFA requires all parties to work constructively and openly with the Independent Commission. When the Independent commission states that they have reason to believe that there is clear evidence of an Army COuncil, which is denied by Sinn Fein, then it is a breach of the GFA. No question about it.

And people who admit that an army council still exists, without weapons to discuss peace, is talking through their ar5e.

joeguevara

Hqrry113 wrote: »

I was trying to understand what your definition of exist is, If because some former members of the IRA still meet up from time to time (not including former IRA members who are currently in SF)means the IRA "still exist" then yes I agree but the IRA does not exist in any militarily or organized structure.

Fair enough. Independent commission disagrees with you.

Hqrry113

joeguevara wrote: »

you specifically requested a requirement of where it says that they cannot disband. I showed you that legislation.

Now youre only interested in specific reference in the GFA. The GFA requires all parties to work constructively and openly with the Independent Commission. When the Independent commission states that they have reason to believe that there is clear evidence of an Army COuncil, which is denied by Sinn Fein, then it is a breach of the GFA. No question about it.

And people who admit that an army council still exists, without weapons to discuss peace, is talking through their ar5e.

Is it really an "army" council anymore if there is no army?

Or is it just a group of people discussing a United Ireland?

mynamejeff

Deleted User wrote: »

Scrath a liberial,a facist bleeds

Its wrong whats going on there irregardless of they being in for murder or no tv licence







Noone said they did,so.why your ranting is beyond me.......just what kind of ireland yous want,and i know direct provision is wrong and used to line pockets of unscruptulous scum (though i believe this and similar behaviour is now refered to as senor hurling and therefore deemed ok)

there is quite a difference between murder and not paying fines. complaining bout getting caught for your crimes is the sort of thing a teenage car thief does because they are too stupid to understand things like personal responsibility and consequences. sympathy does not apply here


your in the wrong thread for direct provision and a strange move for a self confessed dissident supporting violent terrorism

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

you specifically requested a requirement of where it says that they cannot disband. I showed you that legislation.

Now youre only interested in specific reference in the GFA. The GFA requires all parties to work constructively and openly with the Independent Commission. When the Independent commission states that they have reason to believe that there is clear evidence of an Army COuncil, which is denied by Sinn Fein, then it is a breach of the GFA. No question about it.

And people who admit that an army council still exists, without weapons to discuss peace, is talking through their ar5e.

So, if this 'Army Council' exists, what have the governments, who have very clear commitments in the GFA done?

You cannot have it every which way here.

My belief is that there is no longer an 'army' and a name is being applied that has no relevance or actual meaning.
It is clear to me that the IRA have gotten involved in democratic politics.

mynamejeff

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Is it really an "army" council anymore if there is no army?

Or is it just a group of people discussing a United Ireland?

just a social club now is it ?

joeguevara

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Is it really an "army" council anymore if there is no army?

Or is it just a group of people discussing a United Ireland?

Firslty, thanks for admitting that they meet up on a regular basis. Secondly, have you heard what they discuss or are making an assumption?

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So, if this 'Army Council' exists, what have the governments, who have very clear commitments in the GFA done?

You cannot have it every which way here.

My belief is that there is no longer an 'army' and a name is being applied that has no relevance or actual meaning.
It is clear to me that the IRA have gotten involved in democratic politics.

The Army council control the actions of Sinn Fein in other words!

FrancieBrady

mynamejeff wrote: »

just a social club now is it ?

Well it's as handy to those who want to engage in faux outrage as another term I don't use -'Blueshirts'.
They are non existent too are they not?

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

The Army council control the actions of Sinn Fein in other words!

Or they contribute to the party just like any other member does?

Depends on your paranoia levels I suppose.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Or they contribute to the party just like any other member does?

Depends on your paranoia levels I suppose.

Not paranoid. Just never heard anyone admit openly that the army council still meet up regularly and now are involved (an army council) in democratic politics, as has been posted over the last 30 minutes. It really is a step forward.

blanch152

mynamejeff wrote: »

just a social club now is it ?

Yeah, they sit around talking about the good old days.

"Do you remember Paddy down the road? He's in a wheelchair now, never got over that kneecapping we gave him."

"Saw Mary down the shops, its taken her 30 years to get over the fact we put her husband in the ground and now she's taken up with other old pensioner"

"Do you remember that time the girls lured those soldiers into an ambush. Wasn't it great crack watching them in the pub beforehand not knowing what was going to happen?"

"That time when 71 of us told the RUC we were in the toilet, funny eh?"

"Bobby was a great man, wasn't he? He sure showed that Cahill one"

Who would want to be in a social club with those lads?