The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

FrancieBrady

imme wrote: »

A weighting was applied to the component parts of the electoral college, that apparently is the way they run.

"fooling no one"

I'm not clear what you are suggesting here.

The NI /deputy leader role went to an election.
There were no public hustings.

Many political parties have what they call hustings when they have leadership elections.

John O'Dowd, former NI assembly minister went up against Michelle O'Neil.

O'Dowd gave no media interviews prior to the election.

Has poor John been heard of since.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-sinn-fein-voting-numbers-for-odowd-v-oneill-leadership-contest-38716424.html

Honest to god...where do you guys get this stuff from? Is there a rumour briefing being given somewhere I don't know about?

https://twitter.com/JohnODowdSF

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

Just started reading about it. Fcucking hell. How did I miss this?

Look up the US 60 minutes programme on it. And read about Boston College's part and the aftermath.

imme

Deleted User wrote: »

Their lying to you mate,theres no weighting system in the world that can overturn a 200% margin


Why you seem to swallow.this unquestioned is your own issue to come to terms with



But outside FG,noone is buying it


(Weighting is in itself, inherently undemocratic)

This is from Wikipedia, it really isn't that difficult to understand :

The electoral votes are allocated:

65% to the Fine Gael parliamentary party (TDs, Senators and MEPs);
25% to ordinary Fine Gael members, including Young Fine Gael;
10% to Fine Gael local representatives (city and county councillors and members of Údarás na Gaeltachta).

McMurphy

imme wrote: »

A weighting was applied to the component parts of the electoral college, that apparently is the way they run.

"fooling no one"

I'm not clear what you are suggesting here.

The NI /deputy leader role went to an election.
There were no public hustings.

Many political parties have what they call hustings when they have leadership elections.

John O'Dowd, former NI assembly minister went up against Michelle O'Neil.

O'Dowd gave no media interviews prior to the election.

Has poor John been heard of since.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-sinn-fein-voting-numbers-for-odowd-v-oneill-leadership-contest-38716424.html

Yesterday's Newsletter

Ulster Unionist Party leader, Steve Aiken, made a point of thanking Sinn Fein MLA, Declan Kearney, who, along with party colleagues John O’Dowd and Alex Maskey observed a moment of silence to mark Remembrance Day in Stormont on Wednesday morning.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Look up the US 60 minutes programme on it. And read about Boston College's part and the aftermath.

Just on this now

imme

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Honest to god...where do you guys get this stuff from? Is there a rumour briefing being given somewhere I don't know about?

https://twitter.com/JohnODowdSF

John is fit and healthy and his account is still tweeting.

"A rumour briefing"

I'm not sure what this means.

I asked the question if poor John had been heard of since his failed election bid.
SF has had that many ministers in the assembly over the years, they are all front and centre and then you never hear of them again, it has seemed something of a revolving door being a SF assembly minister.

McMurphy

imme wrote: »

John is fit and healthy and his account is still tweeting.

"A rumour briefing"

I'm not sure what this means.

I asked the question if poor John had been heard of since his failed election bid.
SF has had that many ministers in the assembly over the years, they are all front and centre and then you never hear of them again, it has seemed something of a revolving door being a SF assembly minister.

In fairness, you'd have been better googling him, you definitely give the impression you were implying something sinister, and I don't think it was unintentional.

joeguevara

Deleted User wrote: »

So effectively its just a vote between the parlimentry party that decides the contest??

And someone could gain 100% of the membership and county councillors and their vote be ignored?......this isnt remotely democratic

(This is,as i said a parculilar take on democracy)

How was MLM elected as president of Sinn Fein. Did she receive much of the ballot And how did every other candidate do?

FrancieBrady

imme wrote: »

John is fit and healthy and his account is still tweeting.

"A rumour briefing"

I'm not sure what this means.

I asked the question if poor John had been heard of since his failed election bid.
SF has had that many ministers in the assembly over the years, they are all front and centre and then you never hear of them again, it has seemed something of a revolving door being a SF assembly minister.

Sure...that's why you phrased it 'poor John'.

joeguevara

Deleted User wrote: »

To best of my knowledge,their was no other canditadate??


Personally felt martin ferris,should been given.a run

From what I remember Gerry was reappointed but asked for a special ard fheis 3 months later to vote someone new. MLM only one put forward. Hardly a democratic process. Pearse was supposed to have wanted a chance.

imme

Deleted User wrote: »

So effectively its just a vote between the parlimentry party that decides the contest??

And someone could gain 100% of the membership and county councillors and their vote be ignored?......this isnt remotely democratic

(This is,as i said a parculilar take on democracy)

The vote is weighted toward the parliamentary party.
The election isn't run in some kind of weird isolation.

They had hustings according to media reports where candidates met the membership.

Different parties run elections differently, the UK's Lib Dems use STV.
Gernany's CDU chose their leader with delegates to their national Congress voting.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

How was MLM elected as president of Sinn Fein. Did she receive much of the ballot And how did every other candidate do?

ASF member on here explained it a while back. It is a nominating system as far as I know. Each Cumann nominates a candidate from those offering to stand. If a number are nominated equally an election is held. If there is a stand out nomination they could forward for ratification at Ard Fheis.

I may be wrong on details of that.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

ASF member on here explained it a while back. It is a nominating system as far as I know. Each Cumann nominates a candidate from those offering to stand. If a number are nominated equally an election is held. If there is a stand out nomination they could forward for ratification at Ard Fheis.

I may be wrong on details of that.

The cumann can only nominate a candidate if they wish to be nominated. It appears that Pearse was told not to put his hat in a ring.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2018/0119/934419-sinn-fein/

imme

McMurphy wrote: »

In fairness, you'd have been better googling him, you definitely give the impression you were implying something sinister, and I don't think it was unintentional.

Political more than sinister.

Was the election of Michelle a foregone conclusion. Did John throwing his hat into the ring upset the foregone conclusion that Mary Lou would get the presidency and Michelle get the VP role.

Was the coronation of Mary Lou (was there an election) a foregone conclusion, a broadening of their appeal, a woman, a southerner.

They are a political party or am I missing something.

FrancieBrady

imme wrote: »

Political more than sinister.

Was the election of Michelle a foregone conclusion. Did John throwing his hat into the ring upset the foregone conclusion that Mary Lou would get the presidency and Michelle get the VP role.

Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

O'Dowd challenged O'Neill...she and Mary-Lou were already in position.

imme

Deleted User wrote: »

This meeting membership,was a waste of everyones time,

In an electoral college,their votes are immaterial,as it will always be the parlimentry party who decides the election...irregardless of votes.of membership

Quiet,how you have convinced.yourself this is democratic is beyond me

Meetings are a chance to consider raison d'etre, direction etc etc
They are a place to raise concerns.

I would expect that membership influences elected reps and vice versa.

McMurphy

imme wrote: »

Political more than sinister.

Was the election of Michelle a foregone conclusion. Did John throwing his hat into the ring upset the foregone conclusion that Mary Lou would get the presidency and Michelle get the VP role.

Was the coronation of Mary Lou (was there an election) a foregone conclusion, a broadening of their appeal, a woman, a southerner.

They are a political party or am I missing something.

What Francie said, I've been over the ODowd v O'Neill challenge on this site a good few amount of times with different posters already.

ODowd challenged her leadership.

imme

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

O'Dowd challenged O'Neill...she and Mary-Lou were already in position.

I meant (in case I didn't say it) Michelle stood aside to let Mary Lou be crowned when Gerry left the stage.

Her payback was the VP role until John threw a spanner into the works.

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Be that as it may,the membership.did not,and will not ever influence the election result.....this isnt a democratic process,its a farce

It's a control mechanism, simple as that. And guess what, some of that parliamentary party, may never have faced an election. Imagine, unelected people influencing a party. Shocking eh?

imme

McMurphy wrote: »

What Francie said, I've been over the ODowd v O'Neill challenge on this site a good few amount of times with different posters already.

ODowd challenged her leadership.

Does anyone other than John know why he challenged Michelle.
Is it a secret.

FrancieBrady

imme wrote: »

I meant (in case I didn't say it) Michelle stood aside to let Mary Lou be crowned when Gerry left the stage.

Her payback was the VP role until John threw a spanner into the works.

No..Michelle O'Neill was already the VP.

imme

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's a control mechanism, simple as that. And guess what, some of that parliamentary party, may never have faced an election. Imagine, unelected people influencing a party. Shocking eh?

A co-opted MEP, or Taoiseach's nominee senator.

Is that what you're getting at?

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No..Michelle O'Neill was already the VP.

From talking to people both Michelle and Pearse were told that they were not allowed to seek nomination which left MLM the only person on the ballot.

imme

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No..Michelle O'Neill was already the VP.

She was crowned VP when Gerry stood aside in 2018.

Is there any information on why John challenged her leadership.

McMurphy

imme wrote: »

She was crowned VP when Gerry stood aside in 2018.

Is there any information on why John challenged her leadership.

I assume you meant when Martin McGuinness stepped down in protest at the RHI then subsequently passed away.

FrancieBrady

imme wrote: »

She was crowned VP when Gerry stood aside in 2018.

Is there any information on why John challenged her leadership.

So O'Dowd didn't spoil anything. O'Dowd later challenged for the role for the same reasons anyone does, I presume.

imme

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So O'Dowd didn't spoil anything. O'Dowd later challenged for the role for the same reasons anyone does, I presume.

Are there any NI SF people on here that might be able to give us the inside story.

joeguevara

This Boston tapes Debacle is fcucked up.

imme

Deleted User wrote: »

Mate,his reason is out there,he gave an interview

He was umhappy with the polling figures,with an election due the following year iirc

Its not exactly 3rd secret of fatima stuff

Thank you.

No hustings were allowed by the Ard Comhairle apparently.
https://www.irishnews.com/news/politicalnews/2019/11/22/news/sinn-fe-in-releases-figures-for-john-o-dowd-leadership-challenge-to-michelle-o-neill-1772828/

The vote was taken at the party Ard Fheis, the numbers were 493 for Michelle, 241 for John.
They didn't initially release the results and defended that decision but then changed their mind.
Is that 734 votes the number of delegates at the Ard Fheis or members voting.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Seriously?
Do you think any party member sits in high level negotiations and takes decisions without consulting other members of the party?

Really? Ever hear of Dominic Cummings?

Cummings is a government official.

Ted never was.