The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Cummings is a government official.

Ted never was.

An unelected adviser and strategist to Boris Johnson.

I think it was adequately demonstrated here that if you are in the conspiracy frame of mind that any party or government can be portrayed in the way SF are.

I.E. Unelected people influencing decisions = perfectly normal.

Parties (like FG) having election mechanisms that can be portrayed as undemocratic or as control mechanisms.

I do agree that SF have an instinct to be secretive about what they do internally and that s just a remnant of where they have come from. If you have had members shot, shot at, intimidated, imprisoned, censored and killed then you too would tend towards privacy and secrecy. It's a legacy of the conflict/war.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

An unelected adviser and strategist to Boris Johnson.

I think it was adequately demonstrated here that if you are in the conspiracy frame of mind that any party or government can be portrayed in the way SF are.

I.E. Unelected people influencing decisions = perfectly normal.

Parties (like FG) having election mechanisms that can be portrayed as undemocratic or as control mechanisms.

I do agree that SF have an instinct to be secretive about what they do internally and that s just a remnant of where they have come from. If you have had members shot, shot at, intimidated, imprisoned, censored and killed then you too would tend towards privacy and secrecy. It's a legacy of the conflict/war.

“Instinct to be secretive about what they do internally”

Contender for ‘Understatement of the year’ in this posters opinion.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

“Instinct to be secretive about what they do internally”

Contender for ‘Understatement of the year’ in this posters opinion.

Well look at it without the jaundiced eye Brendie, the cold hard facts. The O'Neill-O'Dowd election being a case in point. The instinct of the northern branch was to keep the result private, Mary Lou had no such compulsion and revealed the result.
Will probably take a bit of time but as I said a legacy issue. They are not the only players in the conflict prone to a lack of transparency.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well look at it without the jaundiced eye Brendie, the cold hard facts. The O'Neill-O'Dowd election being a case in point. The instinct of the northern branch was to keep the result private, Mary Lou had no such compulsion and revealed the result.
Will probably take a bit of time but as I said a legacy issue. They are not the only players in the conflict prone to a lack of transparency.

Not that I fundamentally disagreed with you Francie,just that I thought the expression in itself deserved to be highlighted .......the Italians I think have a shorter description......‘Omerta’ I think it’s called.

But there is a point there too to be fair.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Not that I fundamentally disagreed with you Francie,just that I thought the expression in itself deserved to be highlighted .......the Italians I think have a shorter description......‘Omerta’ I think it’s called.

But there is a point there too to be fair.

Can be levelled at them all Brendi if you are in the conspiracy frame of mind. Look what we found out about secrets here in the last couple weeks.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

An unelected adviser and strategist to Boris Johnson.

I think it was adequately demonstrated here that if you are in the conspiracy frame of mind that any party or government can be portrayed in the way SF are.

I.E. Unelected people influencing decisions = perfectly normal.

Parties (like FG) having election mechanisms that can be portrayed as undemocratic or as control mechanisms.

I do agree that SF have an instinct to be secretive about what they do internally and that s just a remnant of where they have come from. If you have had members shot, shot at, intimidated, imprisoned, censored and killed then you too would tend towards privacy and secrecy. It's a legacy of the conflict/war.

Sorry, let's be clear here. Cummings is on the State payroll, ditto advisers North and South.

Ted is not and was not. He is not covered by any Official Secrets Act or any other civil service regulation, he could sell the information given to him by O'Mulleoir and he would not commit any crime. From what was said at the time, and what you are saying now, it is normal practice for Sinn Fein in the North to share confidential information outside of those bound by civil service regulations.

I am not saying that it was wrong, but you can't say Varadkar was wrong, but giving information to Ted is ok.

McMurphy

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

“Instinct to be secretive about what they do internally”

Contender for ‘Understatement of the year’ in this posters opinion.

Maria Baileys internal inquiry anyone?

"Exonerated everyone" apparently, but we just have to trust Leaky Leo's word on that.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Sorry, let's be clear here. Cummings is on the State payroll, ditto advisers North and South.

Ted is not and was not. He is not covered by any Official Secrets Act or any other civil service regulation, he could sell the information given to him by O'Mulleoir and he would not commit any crime. From what was said at the time, and what you are saying now, it is normal practice for Sinn Fein in the North to share confidential information outside of those bound by civil service regulations.

I am not saying that it was wrong, but you can't say Varadkar was wrong, but giving information to Ted is ok.

blanch, I know you are desperate here, sending an email looking for an opinion/advice or even permission to another party member is not equivalent to what Varadkar did.
The secrecy aspect of what Varadkar did is enough to distinguish it as 'different'.

joeguevara

McMurphy wrote: »

Maria Baileys internal inquiry anyone?

"Exonerated everyone" apparently, but we just have to trust Leaky Leo's word on that.

As has been said in the FFG thread, keep it separate. But Bailey was deselected as a candidate and is no longer in FG. Bit like the SF moneygate people.

McMurphy

joeguevara wrote: »

As has been said in the FFG thread, keep it separate. But Bailey was deselected as a candidate and is no longer in FG. Bit like the SF moneygate people.

You're on record of saying the Shinners acted swiftly and decisively with the folk caught up in the grants fiasco.

It's in no way comparable with how Leo handled Maria Bailey's predicament, and in fact she was only deselected when it became clear that grassroots from the DL branch of FG.

So no, not "a bit like" at all.

Edit, yeah fair enough keep it separate, that'll be my final word on it here.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

As has been said in the FFG thread, keep it separate. But Bailey was deselected as a candidate and is no longer in FG. Bit like the SF moneygate people.

When did she leave FG?

The point graphically illustrated by even today's revelations about judiciary appointments not to mention those of the last few weeks, is that the 'secrecy', 'omerta' claims could be made about any party.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When did she leave FG?

The point graphically illustrated by even today's revelations about judiciary appointments not to mention those of the last few weeks, is that the 'secrecy', 'omerta' claims could be made about any party.

Her wickipedia page says that she is a former FG politician.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

Her wickipedia page says that she is a former FG politician.

Yeh, but that doesn't mean she has left FG. Not all party members are 'politicians'. She might just be having a wee rest.

McMurphy

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yeh, but that doesn't mean she has left FG. Not all party members are 'politicians'. She might just be having a wee rest.

Seamus Woulfe isn't a FG politician either.

suicide_circus

Does Mary Lou have the moral authority to finger wag at the DUP for vetoing lockdown extention following her attendance at the Bobby Storey funeral?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1113/1177892-coronavirus-northern-ireland/

blanch152

suicide_circus wrote: »

Does Mary Lou have the moral authority to finger wag at the DUP for vetoing lockdown extention following her attendance at the Bobby Storey funeral?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1113/1177892-coronavirus-northern-ireland/

She is absolutely right.

"Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald has described the cross-community veto by the Democratic Unionist Party to reject a two-week extension to the current Covid-19 restrictions in Northern Ireland as "shameful, disgraceful, depressing". "

100% agree with her analysis.

The question now is what is she and her party going to do about it?

When the DUP used its cross-community veto to torpedo the Irish Language Act, Sinn Fein collapsed Stormont for three years. Are people's lives worth as much as a dead language? Collapsing Stormont now would allow the Secretary of State and the civil servants to impose the restrictions in accordance with the medical advice.

Will be interesting to see the next steps.

McMurphy

suicide_circus wrote: »

Does Mary Lou have the moral authority to finger wag at the DUP for vetoing lockdown extention following her attendance at the Bobby Storey funeral?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1113/1177892-coronavirus-northern-ireland/

Storeys funeral was after lockdown was lifted.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

She is absolutely right.

"Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald has described the cross-community veto by the Democratic Unionist Party to reject a two-week extension to the current Covid-19 restrictions in Northern Ireland as "shameful, disgraceful, depressing". "

100% agree with her analysis.

The question now is what is she and her party going to do about it?

When the DUP used its cross-community veto to torpedo the Irish Language Act, Sinn Fein collapsed Stormont for three years. Are people's lives worth as much as a dead language? Collapsing Stormont now would allow the Secretary of State and the civil servants to impose the restrictions in accordance with the medical advice.

Will be interesting to see the next steps.

Would she not be castigated for bringing down a government/executive in the 'middle of a pandemic'?

It also wouldn't solve the issue of the abuse of the cross community veto. That requires a change in the way a certain party does it's business.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Storeys funeral was after lockdown was lifted.

Storey's funeral was after the lockdown was lifted in the South, but before the regulations for funerals were changed in the North, and the funeral was in clear breach of the regulations, for which Belfast City Council has already apologised to other mourners.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Would she not be castigated for bringing down a government/executive in the 'middle of a pandemic'?

It also wouldn't solve the issue of the abuse of the cross community veto. That requires a change in the way a certain party does it's business.

She would be doing so to save lives, not score a petty point about a dead language.

Thought you would like it as a suggestion as it plays to your crusade of the failed State.

joeguevara

blanch152 wrote: »

Storey's funeral was after the lockdown was lifted in the South, but before the regulations for funerals were changed in the North, and the funeral was in clear breach of the regulations, for which Belfast City Council has already apologised to other mourners.

And the only person to be buried and cremated on the same day.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

She would be doing so to save lives, not score a petty point about a dead language.

Thought you would like it as a suggestion as it plays to your crusade of the failed State.

I'd say as usual, the cry would go up of 'shocking that they brought down the executive in the middle of the pandemic' as it did when they looked for some accountability here.

You are also presupposing that a SoS from a party and government that has presided over 50,000 deaths would actually take the measures you say they would. (He could do a grubby little deal with the DUP after all)

As I said before, the executive wasn't brought down over the petition for concern abuse alone. As usual you are misrepresenting what actually happened for a cheap dig. Not unlike the bizarre missive last night from one of your favoured party leaders, Colm Eastwood, which castigated all and sundry, elevated themselves to glory for the common man and then you find out that the SDLP ABSTAINED in the vote.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

Cummings is a government official.

Ted never was.

He possibly would have been except the TUV sponsored a law that anyone who had any convictions could not be employed as special advisors/consultants (which pretty much ruled out a substantial number of Sinn Fein members being transparent about their role.

jm08

blanch152 wrote: »

She is absolutely right.

"Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald has described the cross-community veto by the Democratic Unionist Party to reject a two-week extension to the current Covid-19 restrictions in Northern Ireland as "shameful, disgraceful, depressing". "

100% agree with her analysis.

The question now is what is she and her party going to do about it?

When the DUP used its cross-community veto to torpedo the Irish Language Act, Sinn Fein collapsed Stormont for three years. Are people's lives worth as much as a dead language? Collapsing Stormont now would allow the Secretary of State and the civil servants to impose the restrictions in accordance with the medical advice.

Will be interesting to see the next steps.

Wasn't Stormont collapsed over the RHI and Arlene Foster's refusal to step aside while investigation was going on.

smurgen

jm08 wrote: »

Wasn't Stormont collapsed over the RHI and Arlene Foster's refusal to step aside while investigation was going on.

Yes.

joeguevara

jm08 wrote: »

He possibly would have been except the TUV sponsored a law that anyone who had any convictions could not be employed as special advisors/consultants (which pretty much ruled out a substantial number of Sinn Fein members being transparent about their role.

Did that apply to actual politicians as Martin had numerous convictions both north and south as far as Im aware? Was the rule only for the advisers?

imme

McMurphy wrote: »

Seamus Woulfe isn't a FG politician either.

He's a judge who was Attorney General, how is an F G politician.

blanch152

jm08 wrote: »

Wasn't Stormont collapsed over the RHI and Arlene Foster's refusal to step aside while investigation was going on.

Even worse, nothing at stake, and they collapsed it. Why are peoples' lives less important than having a go at Arlene?

blanch152

jm08 wrote: »

He possibly would have been except the TUV sponsored a law that anyone who had any convictions could not be employed as special advisors/consultants (which pretty much ruled out a substantial number of Sinn Fein members being transparent about their role.

So are you suggesting that there might be a long list of people out there with whom SF Ministers have shared confidential information?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

So are you suggesting that there might be a long list of people out there with whom SF Ministers have shared confidential information?

What odds if they did it for the good of the country?

You guys set the precedent.