The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

smurgen

The conspiracy theorists in here are reaching QAnon levels

imme

There has been talk on the preceding pages of "unelected advisors" having influence on politicians.

I'm not clear on what the term "unelected advisors" means.

Government ministers have advisors.

I'm not aware of elected advisors anywhere in the world.

Advisors to ministers in Ireland (ROI) have had a low enough public awareness in recent years.
They generally have public profiles.
I'd imagine it is only other political parties and political correspondents that an awareness of them these days.

It was different at other times, Fergus Findlay, Frank Dunlop, Frank Flannery and PJ Mara would have had national profiles.

imme

smurgen wrote: »

The conspiracy theorists in here are reaching QAnon levels

It's the securocrats again.:pac:

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What odds if they did it for the good of the country?

You guys set the precedent.

I didn't set any precedent.

imme

suicide_circus wrote: »

Does Mary Lou have the moral authority to finger wag at the DUP for vetoing lockdown extention following her attendance at the Bobby Storey funeral?

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1113/1177892-coronavirus-northern-ireland/

Mary Lou was on BBC radio when SF accepted that how they handled the funeral and subsequent digging their heels in,

She was explaining the story of the funeral.

She said that Storey was loved across the island.

I only became aware of him at the time of his death I think.

Of course the English based BBC interviewer didn't question Mary Lou's assertion that Storey was loved across the island.

FrancieBrady

imme wrote: »

Mary Lou was on BBC radio when SF accepted that how they handled the funeral and subsequent digging their heels in,

She was explaining the story of the funeral.

She said that Storey was loved across the island.

I only became aware of him at the time of his death I think.

Of course the English based BBC interviewer didn't question Mary Lou's assertion that Storey was loved across the island.

I have heard and understand people getting upset about things politicians say but that one is a bit much.
I have heard people express that thought about loads of people, and even if I didn't feel the same way, I let it pass.

Jaysus.

imme

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have heard and understand people getting upset about things politicians say but that one is a bit much.
I have heard people express that thought about loads of people, and even if I didn't feel the same way, I let it pass.

Jaysus.

It struck me as being unusual, an unusual thing for her to say,

"Loved across the island"

What is an unknowing interviewer to make of a phrase like that.
They'd be asking themselves, was this guy a Martin McGuinness type figure, a Lech Walesa type figure.

As it turns out Storey was something of an enforcer.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Storey's funeral was after the lockdown was lifted in the South, but before the regulations for funerals were changed in the North, and the funeral was in clear breach of the regulations, for which Belfast City Council has already apologised to other mourners.

Been covered numerous times, stop with the nonsense, lockdown was lifted in the north the day before the funeral.

You know this.

McMurphy

imme wrote: »

He's a judge who was Attorney General, how is an F G politician.

He isn't - that's what my post you just quoted said.

Maria Bailey might not be an FG politician, that doesn't mean she's not still a member of the party.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Been covered numerous times, stop with the nonsense, lockdown was lifted in the north the day before the funeral.

You know this.

Yes, that is why there is an ongoing police investigation.

FrancieBrady

imme wrote: »

It struck me as being unusual, an unusual thing for her to say,

"Loved across the island"

What is an unknowing interviewer to make of a phrase like that.
They'd be asking themselves, was this guy a Martin McGuinness type figure, a Lech Walesa type figure.

As it turns out Storey was something of an enforcer.

Listen to the things that were said about somebody like Gay Byrne.

You are being mealy mouthed here about something people say all the time about public figures.

I'm sure the interviewer, being a big boy or girl, would understand that it was a much used cliche and that there would be people who loved and hated him.

blanch152

imme wrote: »

Mary Lou was on BBC radio when SF accepted that how they handled the funeral and subsequent digging their heels in,

She was explaining the story of the funeral.

She said that Storey was loved across the island.

I only became aware of him at the time of his death I think.

Of course the English based BBC interviewer didn't question Mary Lou's assertion that Storey was loved across the island.

If there wasn't a lockdown at the time of the funeral, there would have been ten times as many there to make sure he was dead.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

If there wasn't a lockdown at the time of the funeral, there would have been ten times as many there to make sure he was dead.

There wasn't a lockdown at the time of the funeral, keep repeating the lie all you want - just makes you look silly.

imme

McMurphy wrote: »

He isn't - that's what my post you just quoted said.

Maria Bailey might not be an FG politician, that doesn't mean she's not still a member of the party.

A judge isn't a politician.

I'm not sure why this analogy is being made.

Membership of a particular party isn't illegal.

imme

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Listen to the things that were said about somebody like Gay Byrne.

You are being mealy mouthed here about something people say all the time about public figures.

I'm sure the interviewer, being a big boy or girl, would understand that it was a much used cliche and that there would be people who loved and hated him.

Not the same I'm afraid.
The story, sic, was political, the interview was political.

Storey's funeral was political theatre, witness people being told to attend

Outside of SF circles in ROI I don't know how people would have been aware of who Storey was and what he got up to, let alone loving him.

Like I said about the BBC interviewer, not meaning to denegrade them or call into question their preparedness but my point about them stands.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

There wasn't a lockdown at the time of the funeral, keep repeating the lie all you want - just makes you look silly.

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting, there was nothing wrong with the Storey funeral, that's why there is an ongoing investigation in Belfast City Council, a number of police inquiries, a public outcry etc., but oh yeah, there was nothing wrong.

The funeral was in breach of regulations!!! That has been admitted by Belfast City Council already.

McMurphy

imme wrote: »

A judge isn't a politician.

We've established that, you have now quoted me a few times now stating that.

I'm not sure why this analogy is being made.

Membership of a particular party isn't illegal.

Just thought it was a pertinent observation following the line of discussion for the week that's in it.

blanch152

imme wrote: »

Not the same I'm afraid.
The story, sic, was political, the interview was political.

Storey's funeral was political theatre, witness people being told to attend

Outside of SF circles in ROI I don't know how people would have been aware of who Storey was and what he got up to, let alone loving him.

Like I said about the BBC interviewer, not meaning to denegrade them or call into question their preparedness but my point about them stands.

Anyone outside of SF circles hasn't a good word to say about Bobby Storey.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting, there was nothing wrong with the Storey funeral, that's why there is an ongoing investigation in Belfast City Council, a number of police inquiries, a public outcry etc., but oh yeah, there was nothing wrong.

The funeral was in breach of regulations!!! That has been admitted by Belfast City Council already.

So you're now accepting the fact lockdown was lifted in the north?

FrancieBrady

imme wrote: »

Not the same I'm afraid.
The story, sic, was political, the interview was political.

Storey's funeral was political theatre, witness people being told to attend

Outside of SF circles in ROI I don't know how people would have been aware of who Storey was and what he got up to, let alone loving him.

Like I said about the BBC interviewer, not meaning to denegrade them or call into question their preparedness but my point about them stands.

There's been loads of similar funerals...absolutely nothing unusual about how SF or ex IRA funerals are held. Not my kinda thing but then neither are showy funerals in general.

'He was loved across Ireland' isn't saying everyone loved him. It's a cliche for somebody who was popular across the island and like it or not he was. Just like Gay Byrne or Brendan Grace or any number of politcal figures over the years. You only have to read the relevant threads here on these figures to know that not everyone 'loved' them.

Your objection is the usual cheap and begrudging one when it comes to the dastardly shinners.

imme

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There's been loads of similar funerals...absolutely nothing unusual about how SF or ex IRA funerals are held. Not my kinda thing but then neither are showy funerals in general.

'He was loved across Ireland' isn't saying everyone loved him. It's a cliche for somebody who was popular across the island and like it or not he was. Just like Gay Byrne or Brendan Grace or any number of politcal figures over the years. You only have to read the relevant threads here on these figures to know that not everyone 'loved' them.

Your objection is the usual cheap and begrudging one when it comes to the dastardly shinners.

Linking the funeral of Storey to that of Brendan Grace, an entertainer, Gay Byrne, an entertainer who had a significant influence on modern Ireland is just misleading.

Storey's funeral was held in the midst of a pandemic.
People were encouraged to attend.

Mary Lou's assertion is either misleading at best or disingenuous at worst.

The interview was with an international media outlet, I wouldn't want the impression going around the world that Storey was loved throughout the island and was some sort of figure equivalent to Mandela or Walesa.

joeguevara

imme wrote: »

Linking the funeral of Storey to that of Brendan Grace, an entertainer, Gay Byrne, an entertainer who had a significant influence on modern Ireland is just misleading.

Storey's funeral was held in the midst of a pandemic.
People were encouraged to attend.

Mary Lou's assertion is either misleading at best or disingenuous at worst.

The interview was with an international media outlet, I wouldn't want the impression going around the world that Storey was loved throughout the island and was some sort of figure equivalent to Mandela or Walesa.

In all fairness she didn't say he was loved by everyone on the island, only across the island. If someone loved you in galway and someone else loved you in Dublin, you would be loved across the island. hahahahahahahahah

FrancieBrady

imme wrote: »

Linking the funeral of Storey to that of Brendan Grace, an entertainer, Gay Byrne, an entertainer who had a significant influence on modern Ireland is just misleading.

Storey's funeral was held in the midst of a pandemic.
People were encouraged to attend.

Mary Lou's assertion is either misleading at best or disingenuous at worst.

The interview was with an international media outlet, I wouldn't want the impression going around the world that Storey was loved throughout the island and was some sort of figure equivalent to Mandela or Walesa.

Send them an email then...set the record straight. Tell them 'Outraged in Ireland' doesn't love Bobby.

It still wouldn't make what she said untrue...that he was 'loved across Ireland'.

Is that Mandela, the former 'terrorist' you are talking about? Would it be true to say 'he was loved across South Africa?' Because he wasn't loved by everyone either.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

So you're now accepting the fact lockdown was lifted in the north?

Here is the BBC on the lockdown regulations in force at the time of the funeral. I do not dispute their analysis, do you?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-53275733

"Lockdown regulations state a maximum of 30 people are allowed to gather together outdoors.

The regulations, as they were in place on the day of the funeral, also state that people can leave their homes to attend the funeral of a friend if no close family member or member of their household is attending.

People may also leave their home to "visit a burial ground to pay respects to a member of your household or your family member of a friend".

A number of Mr Storey's family attended his funeral.

The regulations say if you have to leave home you should maintain a distance of at least 1m from anyone outside your household.

The deputy first minister told a Stormont committee on Wednesday that Requiem Masses were now possible due to this week's reopening of places of worship.

However, guidance on religious services issued to faith leaders last week stipulated that this did not apply to weddings, baptisms or funerals.

Updated guidance, seen by BBC News NI on Wednesday and published on the Department of Health website on Thursday, said funeral services could now be conducted in a place of worship.

"The size and circumstances of the venue will determine the maximum number that can attend the service safely whilst observing social distancing of at least 2m, wherever possible," it continued.

"It is recommended that face coverings are used for indoor services.""

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Send them an email then...set the record straight. Tell them 'Outraged in Ireland' doesn't love Bobby.

It still wouldn't make what she said untrue...that he was 'loved across Ireland'.

Is that Mandela, the former 'terrorist' you are talking about? Would it be true to say 'he was loved across South Africa?' Because he wasn't loved by everyone either.

It is blatantly untrue. Most of the people who knew Bobby Storey either feared or loathed him.

beggars_bush

blanch152 wrote: »

It is blatantly untrue. Most of the people who knew Bobby Storey either feared or loathed him.

but it had to be SEEN to be a big funeral

SF are all about the optics

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It is blatantly untrue. Most of the people who knew Bobby Storey either feared or loathed him.

You better email them too blanch.

I've heard some bitter objections in my time, but this one beats them all.

FrancieBrady

beggars_bush wrote: »

but it had to be SEEN to be a big funeral

SF are all about the optics

Same reason thousands of colleagues of valued people will turn out at funerals. Quaint old thing about funerals and their size. You'd be aware of that, particularly in Ireland where funerals are held differently to most other places.

imme

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well look at it without the jaundiced eye Brendie, the cold hard facts. The O'Neill-O'Dowd election being a case in point. The instinct of the northern branch was to keep the result private, Mary Lou had no such compulsion and revealed the result.
Will probably take a bit of time but as I said a legacy issue. They are not the only players in the conflict prone to a lack of transparency.

The party overall didn't want to let the result known.

It was finally released by Danny Morrison, who afaik has no official role in the party any more, on Twitter.

The party didn't release the result, Danny did.

The video on here
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/revealed-sinn-fein-voting-numbers-for-odowd-v-oneill-leadership-contest-38716424.html

features Mary Lou, when the party was in 'we're not releasing mood', saying that the matter was purely internal.

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Here is the BBC on the lockdown regulations in force at the time of the funeral. I do not dispute their analysis, do you?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-53275733

"Lockdown regulations state a maximum of 30 people are allowed to gather together outdoors.

The regulations, as they were in place on the day of the funeral, also state that people can leave their homes to attend the funeral of a friend if no close family member or member of their household is attending.

People may also leave their home to "visit a burial ground to pay respects to a member of your household or your family member of a friend".

A number of Mr Storey's family attended his funeral.

The regulations say if you have to leave home you should maintain a distance of at least 1m from anyone outside your household.

The deputy first minister told a Stormont committee on Wednesday that Requiem Masses were now possible due to this week's reopening of places of worship.

However, guidance on religious services issued to faith leaders last week stipulated that this did not apply to weddings, baptisms or funerals.

Updated guidance, seen by BBC News NI on Wednesday and published on the Department of Health website on Thursday, said funeral services could now be conducted in a place of worship.

"The size and circumstances of the venue will determine the maximum number that can attend the service safely whilst observing social distancing of at least 2m, wherever possible," it continued.

"It is recommended that face coverings are used for indoor services.""

So lockdown was over - you're trying to go off on a different tangent, won't work I'm afraid.

Lockdown was lifted north and south on the same day, the day before Storeys funeral.

Goalpost moving now.


Garda Horkans funeral was held in the heart of Lockdown, and all the restrictions in place them were observed been flouted, and not a word from you.

Go figure.