The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

Fann Linn

blanch152 wrote: »

That is equivalent to someone believing that the UN would step in if ireland had invaded the North in 1969.

In other words, it is utter fantasy.

So you reckon the EU wouldn't help out?

FrancieBrady

a very cool kid wrote: »

True but the Shinners are the only one trying to destabilise the political institutions up there publishing nonsense on United Ireland during a pandemic

Go look up who nearly caused the Justice Minister to pack it in recently by abusing the Cross Community Veto in the 'political institutions'. Come back and make some sense then. The concept of a UI is included in the GFA and was never going to be ignored and EVERYONE knew that.

Nobotty

blanch152 wrote: »

That is equivalent to someone believing that the UN would step in if ireland had invaded the North in 1969.

In other words, it is utter fantasy.

What you are saying is Bullcrap
The EU is a co guarantor of the GFA and as such are obligated to support it
The EU would have to aid a UI in the same way they aided a UG and in the same way they aided Ireland for decades when we were a poor member of the EC/EU and in the same way that new/recent members are net beneficiaries

I can't believe I've scrolled through pages of utter made up rubbish on a UI in this thread
A UI is coming,its only time that's in the way and that time is running out

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Go look up who nearly caused the Justice Minister to pack it in recently by abusing the Cross Community Veto in the 'political institutions'. Come back and make some sense then. The concept of a UI is included in the GFA and was never going to be ignored and EVERYONE knew that.

Now is not the time, dude.

But you know that.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Now is not the time, dude.

But you know that.

Perfect time to have a look at how it might be when it is blatantly obvious the place has utterly failed. And before the oncoming train that will be Brexit.

Irresponsible not to IMO.

Brendan Bendar

I see Kelly not going to be cited over the trip in the lorry tweet.

The Unionist electorate will no doubt be delighted with that.


Bring a UI decades closer, so it will, hi.

a very cool kid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Go look up who nearly caused the Justice Minister to pack it in recently by abusing the Cross Community Veto in the 'political institutions'. Come back and make some sense then. The concept of a UI is included in the GFA and was never going to be ignored and EVERYONE knew that.

You're using the GFA for your own ends, the idea of NI being included as part of the UK is included too. Changing the status quo is not in the spirit of the GFA.

FrancieBrady

a very cool kid wrote: »

You're using the GFA for your own ends, the idea of NI being included as part of the UK is included too. Changing the status quo is not in the spirit of the GFA.

What????

Brendan Bendar

Auld ‘Angle Grinder’ doing his best to bring the Unionist Community on board, for sure.

Solutionking

For such a small document from SF it is taking a hell of a long time for a few people to read and comment on it.

James Brown

Solutionking wrote: »

For such a small document from SF it is taking a hell of a long time for a few people to read and comment on it.

Give us the gist.

Solutionking

Bowie wrote: »

Give us the gist.

Here you go
https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1329726180300369925
Probably easier is you are struggling with such a complex document, nice little video, not that much to read but a bit so best to break it into chucks

James Brown

Solutionking wrote: »

Here you go
https://twitter.com/sinnfeinireland/status/1329726180300369925
Probably easier is you are struggling with such a complex document, nice little video, not that much to read but a bit so best to break it into chucks

Not struggling, not arsed. Cheers.
Sounds great but I'm bias. I don't need SF to sell me on it.

Creol1

Nobotty wrote: »

What you are saying is Bullcrap
The EU is a co guarantor of the GFA and as such are obligated to support it
The EU would have to aid a UI in the same way they aided a UG and in the same way they aided Ireland for decades when we were a poor member of the EC/EU and in the same way that new/recent members are net beneficiaries

I can't believe I've scrolled through pages of utter made up rubbish on a UI in this thread
A UI is coming,its only time that's in the way and that time is running out

Where does it specify in the GRA -- or anywhere else -- that the EU "would have to" aid a United Ireland? I'm not aware of this being specified anywhere.

Ireland didn't get much support from the EU/EEC until the 90s when (a) they wanted to project a positive image of the EU to secure support in the various referendums, as the only member state required to have them and (b) because following the fall of the Warsaw Pact, they wanted to attract newly "liberated" East European states by showcasing how EU membership could benefit small peripheral states.

FrancieBrady

Creol1 wrote: »

Where does it specify in the GRA -- or anywhere else -- that the EU "would have to" aid a United Ireland? I'm not aware of this being specified anywhere.

Ireland didn't get much support from the EU/EEC until the 90s when (a) they wanted to project a positive image of the EU to secure support in the various referendums, as the only member state required to have them and (b) because following the fall of the Warsaw Pact, they wanted to attract newly "liberated" East European states by showcasing how EU membership could benefit small peripheral states.

Ireland is the EU. Try and understand that first.

jm08

Creol1 wrote: »

Where does it specify in the GRA -- or anywhere else -- that the EU "would have to" aid a United Ireland? I'm not aware of this being specified anywhere.

Ireland didn't get much support from the EU/EEC until the 90s when (a) they wanted to project a positive image of the EU to secure support in the various referendums, as the only member state required to have them and (b) because following the fall of the Warsaw Pact, they wanted to attract newly "liberated" East European states by showcasing how EU membership could benefit small peripheral states.

Actually, Ireland's support of the unification of Germany which was opposed by Britain and France lead to Ireland getting huge amounts of money (8/9 bn) in the early '90s with the backing of a very grateful Germany. Ireland had the Presidency and Charlie Haughey pulled a few diplomatic strokes at the summit.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/helmut-kohl-was-forever-grateful-for-irish-support-during-eu-presidency-1.3122977

Bishop of hope

The Storey funeral is still making the headlines too.
Seems like the party called all the members to the party so to speak!
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-fein-email-told-members-storey-wake-is-open-to-public-39775038.html

jh79

Reading that document makes me wonder if SF are only paying lip service to a UI. Lets face it, plenty of "Good Republicans" have done well out of partition and continue to do so.

Or they are afraid the public are not willing to make the financial sacrifices that would be needed. They could of easily mapped out a few different scenarios with various levels of external help.

FrancieBrady

The costs of partition section is spot on and food for thought for those thinking there is something to celebrate in 100 years of partition.
After 100 years of tragedy we now have the failure of the NI state presenting as a threat to the islands health.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The costs of partition section is spot on and food for thought for those thinking there is something to celebrate in 100 years of partition.
After 100 years of tragedy we now have the failure of the NI state presenting as a threat to the islands health.

Pity more effort wasn't put into how we could achieve it.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Pity more effort wasn't put into how we could achieve it.

Achieve what?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Achieve what?

A UI. Obvious from the recent opinion polls that the citizens of NI do not believe they will be better off in a UI. This document won't change that.

walshb

There has to be a large large amount people who couldn’t give a toss about a UI, but will claim to give a toss due to wanting to be seen to be patriotic.

Pretty much everyone living on the island now knows no different than what is now..

Solutionking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The costs of partition section is spot on and food for thought for those thinking there is something to celebrate in 100 years of partition.
After 100 years of tragedy we now have the failure of the NI state presenting as a threat to the islands health.

SF/DUP is the threat to the island's health. Nothing else

What they don't seem to understand is the reason cross border trade is so high is that we are sending to the UK. If the North is not in the UK anymore that goes away.

Also as usual this document is written not about an all Ireland but to try and divide. Very scummy party to try and constantly divide between two different communities in Northern Ireland. The sort of statement below really is something that should be thrown out after the GFA.

How trade between the North and Britain would be impacted in the event of Irish Unity is less clear. The argument is regularly made by Unionists that Britain is the north’s “most valuable trading partner”, however that argument is primarily based on the value of trade between the North and Britain being higher than trade to anywhere else.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

A UI. Obvious from the recent opinion polls that the citizens of NI do not believe they will be better off in a UI. This document won't change that.

The best that can be said of polls on the subject, is this:

Polling on Irish unity over the last couple of years has painted a confusing picture.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2020/02/19/the-mystery-of-the-shy-nationalists-online-and-face-to-face-polling-on-irish-unity-continues-to-give-different-results/

As I said before, if the anti UI people are so confident, why the fear of a poll.

Solutionking

Solutionking wrote: »

Also as usual this document is written not about an all Ireland but to try and divide. Very scummy party to try and constantly divide between two different communities in Northern Ireland. The sort of statement below really is something that should be thrown out after the GFA.

How trade between the North and Britain would be impacted in the event of Irish Unity is less clear. The argument is regularly made by Unionists that Britain is the north’s “most valuable trading partner”, however that argument is primarily based on the value of trade between the North and Britain being higher than trade to anywhere else.

Is this not a realistic assesment of the situation....no point in hiding behind presupposed political correctness in an effort to shut down discussion??,

Loos to me,the econmic.arguement....long the lynchpin of ulster unionism,has been dealt a death blow by brexit.....and now they are resorting to imaginary arguements around culture,and mindless concerns

Put it another way,what arguement,could you put in favour of remaining in the union,that would apply to the whole island??
And why should the 6 counties,be treated different to the rest,deosnt make sense to me otherwise

If the union is so good for NI,why are the other 26 counties,not clamouring to get back in?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The best that can be said of polls on the subject, is this:


https://sluggerotoole.com/2020/02/19/the-mystery-of-the-shy-nationalists-online-and-face-to-face-polling-on-irish-unity-continues-to-give-different-results/

As I said before, if the anti UI people are so confident, why the fear of a poll.

The undecided won't be swayed by a document that basically says it might be a success as long as someone else pays for it.

I'm sure many Unionist would be confident of winning but might see it as the beginning of the end.

In Republic the majority don't care. I suspect Martin wouldn't of said no border poll in th next 5 years if he didn't think it reflected public opinion .

To many Republicans making money out of partition to be in any real hurry to change things.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

The undecided won't be swayed by a document that basically says it might be a success as long as someone else pays for it.

I'm sure many Unionist would be confident of winning but might see it as the beginning of the end.

In Republic the majority don't care. I suspect Martin wouldn't of said no border poll in th next 5 years if he didn't think it reflected public opinion .

To many Republicans making money out of partition to be in any real hurry to change things.

Again arrogantly speaking for a whole raft of people. Not to mention not understanding that the EU is us...not 'somebody else'.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again arrogantly speaking for a whole raft of people. Not to mention not understanding that the EU is us...not 'somebody else'.

Being part of the EU doesn't mean they will fund a UI. Greece thought they had a blank cheque too look how that turned out.

SF could of modelled a few scenarios with different levels of EU funding but didn't.

Either SF are only paying lip service to a UI or are afraid of predicting the true cost of unification.