The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

markodaly

Bowie wrote: »

Inconvenient how? Both were wrong for the same reasons. Its not a competition. All you've done is explain irrelevance in an effort to differentiate between two funerals, wrong for the same reason. Lack of social distancing.

Again, the world is black and white. No nuance at all.

SF/IRA didn't do wrong because everyone else did wrong.
That is the gist of the defence here.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Again, the world is black and white. No nuance at all.

SF/IRA didn't do wrong because everyone else did wrong.
That is the gist of the defence here.

A lot of people have made mistakes around Covid regs Mark, including SF.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Again, the world is black and white. No nuance at all.

SF/IRA didn't do wrong because everyone else did wrong.
That is the gist of the defence here.

I disagree, SF did do wrong. Why do people who I assume are following the thread insist on peddling that?
SF were wrong. Said so from day one.
Folk are constantly trying to create something to complain about.

Solutionking

Deleted User wrote: »

The state was formed from the anglo-irish treaty?


Yous are both wrong

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Your contention that the IRA formed the 'current' SF is a nonsense.

There is a direct line back to the original SF. It split in the 70's the 'current' SF deciding to stick with abstentionism from Westminster.

Lads you need to get the story straight, you really do circle the wagons when one of you makes a mistake.

Fann Linn wrote: »

What have SF contributed to the state or the EU since it's inception? Was the question.

Please read it correctly.

Just admit the mistake and move on. SF had nothing to do with the EU either so just another mistake.

Solutionking

It is very simple for everyone in Ireland
A Garda was killed in the line of duty and was rewarded with a state funeral for his service to the state, yes social distancing guidelines got broke but the government and Garda had to attend to show the respect the man deserved
The other was a "person" and SF used it as a propaganda event in the middle of a pandemic.
Its disgraceful the carry on across this forum by people who are trying to blacken the name of a Garda who died in the line of duty. Absolutely disgusting.

Solutionking

So back to the real issue.
What have SF done to combat covid in the North? or do we expect another week of high numbers and high deaths?

grayzer75

Solutionking wrote: »

So back to the real issue.
What have SF done to combat covid in the North? or do we expect another week of high numbers and high deaths?

Anytime SF, SDLP, Alliance or UUP tried to do anything about Covid they were met with heavy resistance from the DUP. All non essential shops will be closing this Friday for a two week period, and if rumours turn out to be true schools will be closing early for Christmas just as they did at Halloween - rumour being they will finish up on Dec 11th with a week homeschooling prior to the Christmas break.

Bishop of hope

Bowie wrote: »

Folk are constantly trying to create something to complain about.

:D.
That's a good one coming from you.
I see SIPO being urged to keep looking at SF finances and where the money comes from and where it goes.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-dublin-office-paid-for-advertising-for-party-event-in-belfast-39777578.htm

Bishop of hope

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-dublin-office-paid-for-advertising-for-party-event-in-belfast-39777578.html

Sorry if above link doesn't work here it is again.

FrancieBrady

Bishop of hope wrote: »

:D.
That's a good one coming from you.
I see SIPO being urged to keep looking at SF finances and where the money comes from and where it goes.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/sinn-feins-dublin-office-paid-for-advertising-for-party-event-in-belfast-39777578.htm

Apparently, over on the other thread, being reported to SIPO means nothing.

Solutionking

grayzer75 wrote: »

Anytime SF, SDLP, Alliance or UUP tried to do anything about Covid they were met with heavy resistance from the DUP. All non essential shops will be closing this Friday for a two week period, and if rumours turn out to be true schools will be closing early for Christmas just as they did at Halloween - rumour being they will finish up on Dec 11th with a week homeschooling prior to the Christmas break.

So confusion for the people of Northern Ireland?

blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

People are still talking about a funeral up north. My god. Wait til they hear all the scandals that have broke in the south since!

Bowie wrote: »

Its pretty pathetic. Months later, we've moved on. It was wrong. Nobody has defended it yet some want to ignore one instance to try make points off another. Its all been said. We're all going in circles. Sad.

I think it was McMurphy who said that Sinn Fein were showing Fine Gael how to get out ahead of a story and kill it, mightn't have been in reference to the Storey funeral but the analogy still applies, but in this case it is the other way around. FF have shown how to kill something with Cowen and then Calleary resigning whereas this story is still in the news, still making headlines, because it is still an issue for ordinary people. Ultimately, Michelle and Mary-Lou have failed to be accountable for their actions so it will continue to run and run, as the Belfast City Council investigation will report and the PSNI continue to investigate. Nobody is moving on, this story will run and run.

More than any other event, the Storey funeral showed how some people get away with breaking Covid rules and indirectly led to the higher rate of deaths in the North. It seems to have been the tipping point for the rate in the North increasing above the South. In particular, the notion peddled by Sinn Fein that the funeral was ok because the lockdown was gone (a lie repeatedly peddled in here) gave ordinary people the go-ahead to make up their own rules, and as a result, people have died.

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

So confusion for the people of Northern Ireland?

You speak as if there was clarity here. Remember Leo doing a solo run and having a pop at NPHET, going to level 3 and then embarrassingly having to pull in the horns and do as NPHET said?
How many paid the price for that confusion?

What Covid has shown (to those who like to pretend it where otherwise) is just how much the northern state has failed. It cannot govern itself and is now a clear danger to the the island's health.

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

Anytime SF, SDLP, Alliance or UUP tried to do anything about Covid they were met with heavy resistance from the DUP. All non essential shops will be closing this Friday for a two week period, and if rumours turn out to be true schools will be closing early for Christmas just as they did at Halloween - rumour being they will finish up on Dec 11th with a week homeschooling prior to the Christmas break.

Yes, we have heard that excuse before.

However, when there was a fuss over an Irish Language Act and some farmers burning wood, Sinn Fein collapsed the Assembly when they met with heavy resistance from the DUP.

It seems people's lives aren't as important.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, we have heard that excuse before.

However, when there was a fuss over an Irish Language Act and some farmers burning wood, Sinn Fein collapsed the Assembly when they met with heavy resistance from the DUP.

It seems people's lives aren't as important.

Or conversely, people's lives are of paramount importance and they have mustered support from the Alliance and the SDLP and the UUP to overturn any decision the DUP have made, from the get-go? Remember the 'herd immunity' stuff they wanted to follow Boris on? Or Sammy's and Edwin's anti science stuff?

SDLP and Alliance weren't that bothered about financial irregularities and lack of movement on people's rights.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You speak as if there was clarity here. Remember Leo doing a solo run and having a pop at NPHET, going to level 3 and then embarrassingly having to pull in the horns and do as NPHET said?
How many paid the price for that confusion?

What Covid has shown (to those who like to pretend it where otherwise) is just how much the northern state has failed. It cannot govern itself and is now a clear danger to the the island's health.

There is no doubt that the main political parties in the North have shown themselves unable to govern. If it was only in the North, you might have a point, but they have both displayed it in spades elsewhere.

We saw when Theresa May had to rely on the DUP in Westminister how incompetent they were and how they couldn't be relied on to govern a resident's association. Sinn Fein's disastorous term on Dublin City Council together with their failure to get even one party or independent to agree to enter government with them after the last general election shows how letting them outside the North demonstrates their incompetence. The evidence shows that rather than the North being ungovernable, that it is the DUP and SF who are unfit for governance.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Or conversely, people's lives are of paramount importance and they have mustered support from the Alliance and the SDLP and the UUP to overturn any decision the DUP have made, from the get-go? Remember the 'herd immunity' stuff they wanted to follow Boris on? Or Sammy's and Edwin's anti science stuff?

SDLP and Alliance weren't that bothered about financial irregularities and lack of movement on people's rights.

So finally years later, we agree that Sinn Fein collapsed the Assembly for reasons that weren't of paramount importance.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Blanch, stop the act - you did try and spoof - got promptly called out, and now try and play the victim.

There was no exception ref social distancing guidelines at either the Storey funeral, or the funeral of Garda Horkan.

One of us seemed to be trying to spoof. Which one of us do you think it was?

Why do you refute a point I did not make?

I have set out reasons for the differences between the two funerals. One was an official State occasion which is essential work, the other was an odious political rally disguised as a fake funeral with an open invitation to the public.

No spoofing in that, the spoofery is the pretence that they were the same.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

So finally years later, we agree that Sinn Fein collapsed the Assembly for reasons that weren't of paramount importance.

Depends on were you were standing I suppose. I would stand with those deprived of their rights everyday of the week.
I am aware that those who already have those rights or who don't need them would tend to selfish I'm Alright Jack comfy seat occupying.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

There is no doubt that the main political parties in the North have shown themselves unable to govern. If it was only in the North, you might have a point, but they have both displayed it in spades elsewhere.

We saw when Theresa May had to rely on the DUP in Westminister how incompetent they were and how they couldn't be relied on to govern a resident's association. Sinn Fein's disastorous term on Dublin City Council together with their failure to get even one party or independent to agree to enter government with them after the last general election shows how letting them outside the North demonstrates their incompetence. The evidence shows that rather than the North being ungovernable, that it is the DUP and SF who are unfit for governance.

Blanch, forever 'selective'. Selects victims from the 'list', selects the 'main parties' in the north ignoring steadfastly how the north is setup to 'work'.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, we have heard that excuse before.

However, when there was a fuss over an Irish Language Act and some farmers burning wood, Sinn Fein collapsed the Assembly when they met with heavy resistance from the DUP.

It seems people's lives aren't as important.

What are you slobbering about now?

Irish language act - agreement was in place on the act but the DUP reneged under pressure from the UDA, that's why the assembly collapsed. Irish language speakers wanted the same rights as their counterparts in Scotland and Wales.

Some farmers burning wood - a scheme Arlene Foster presided over which will cost the tax payer £500m by the time it concludes and the vast majority of the beneficiaries were DUP supporters.

The DUP used cross community vote mechanisms to veto proposals set out by health experts and agreed by ALL other parties but yeah it's SF's fault :rolleyes:

Solutionking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You speak as if there was clarity here. Remember Leo doing a solo run and having a pop at NPHET, going to level 3 and then embarrassingly having to pull in the horns and do as NPHET said?
How many paid the price for that confusion?

What Covid has shown (to those who like to pretend it where otherwise) is just how much the northern state has failed. It cannot govern itself and is now a clear danger to the the island's health.

What exactly has Leo got to do with the Northern Assembly??
You are all obsessed with Leo and he isn't even the Taoiseach

Brendan Bendar

blanch152 wrote: »

So finally years later, we agree that Sinn Fein collapsed the Assembly for reasons that weren't of paramount importance.

Nothing final or ever agreed on this thread Blanch.

Good month or two in it at least........


See above.....

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Blanch, forever 'selective'. Selects victims from the 'list', selects the 'main parties' in the north ignoring steadfastly how the north is setup to 'work'.

No, Francie, I agree with you that there has been a failure of governance in the North.

What happens then is that you take the main ingredients in that failure - the DUP and SF as the two largest parties - outside of the North and test whether it is them or the situation in the North. That they have both failed governance tests outside the North suggests they are the problem rather than the North itself. Now, if you want to argue that the DUP made a success of their time in Westminister, I am all ears.

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

What exactly has Leo got to do with the Northern Assembly??
You are all obsessed with Leo and he isn't even the Taoiseach

Well it is the closest other place we can compare to. I could compare to the confusion in the UK or to the confusion in the US, but the point would be the same. Everywhere has had major to minor issues with confusion.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well it is the closest other place we can compare to. I could compare to the confusion in the UK or to the confusion in the US, but the point would be the same. Everywhere has had major to minor issues with confusion.

The way through the confusion is to look at the statistics of rates per 100,000 and see which places are better than the other. Then you get a feel for where there has been less confusion and/or better leadership.

Solutionking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well it is the closest other place we can compare to. I could compare to the confusion in the UK or to the confusion in the US, but the point would be the same. Everywhere has had major to minor issues with confusion.

What are you waffling about? I asked what SF was doing in the North. Not a finger pointing exercise at the other countries and for some reason only you can explain Leo the Kitten.
What are SF doing in the North for covid? fairly bloody simple question is it not? or SF supporters want to play around with words for another few months while people die?

blanch152

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2020/11/23/news/sinn-fein-face-questions-over-email-to-members-ahead-of-bobby-storey-funeral--2138668/

The story keeps running. I remember we were told that Sinn Fein couldn't control the mass outpouring of support for Storey. It was all a lie as is now clear because Sinn Fein invited them along.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

No, Francie, I agree with you that there has been a failure of governance in the North.

What happens then is that you take the main ingredients in that failure - the DUP and SF as the two largest parties - outside of the North and test whether it is them or the situation in the North. That they have both failed governance tests outside the North suggests they are the problem rather than the North itself. Now, if you want to argue that the DUP made a success of their time in Westminister, I am all ears.

Look at any of them Blanch.


The SDLP? A success? This is the party that when faced with DUP resistance to restrictions, had a party leader who immediately issued a letter after the vote, to roundly criticise the DUP and to loudly proclaim the SDLP's 'goodness'. Which was fine until you realised that the SDLP abstained in the vote!

Can you believe that level of hypocrisy and paralysis?

The system has failed even with the supervision of two sovereign governments. It has 'failed' for 100 years. Long since time to look at what happened 100 to make the place impossible to govern.

Absolutely no problem here saying that SF have their share of responsibility for the failure.

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

What are you waffling about? I asked what SF was doing in the North. Not a finger pointing exercise at the other countries and for some reason only you can explain Leo the Kitten.
What are SF doing in the North for covid? fairly bloody simple question is it not? or SF supporters want to play around with words for another few months while people die?

Here is what you asked. See the question mark?

Solutionking wrote:

So confusion for the people of Northern Ireland?

Do you want me to point to 'confusion' caused by governments elsewhere? Because there are plenty of examples, there is confusion everywhere.