The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

I'm not hiding behind anything. Thousands of people died to get a GFA and Stormont and now it just "Meh". The utter failure is on the part of SF and DUP. The lack of ability for either party to work for the voters. So fix those two and then Stormont is prefect.
A bit of respect would be nice around this forum.

There are 6 parties in an Executive not a government - the government is in Westminster.
Just recently, 5 of those parties tried to put through restrictions and were stopped by an abuse of the Cross Community veto on two occasions and had to cobble together a watered down version.

Not unlike the Dublin government having to admit the medical experts were right and go to Level 5, the DUP had to similarly accept the medical advice and the opinion of the other 5 parties and more stringent circuit breaker is being brought in. \

Completely wrong analysis to suggest that the other parties are not doing anything.

grayzer75

Solutionking wrote: »

I'm not hiding behind anything. Thousands of people died to get a GFA and Stormont and now it just "Meh". The utter failure is on the part of SF and DUP. The lack of ability for either party to work for the voters. So fix those two and then Stormont is prefect.
A bit of respect would be nice around this forum.

The problem is there's nobody actually representing ordinary loyalist communities like David Irvine did in the past. He and SF had some major differences but when it came to day to day stuff they actually worked hard for working class areas.

Now you have a DUP which is dealing various factions of the UDA - most of which can't even agree with each other (Jackie McDonald and Dee Stitt for example).

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

More shooting the messenger. The Bobby Storey funeral is still making headlines in the North months later. Why? Because Sinn Fein tried to pull the wool over the eyes of the public.

The latest email announcing the wake was a public event will cause a lot of trouble.

Not shooting any messenger, you are absolutely obsessed with a dead mans funeral and everything you post about it is false.

It was his family's decision to have the wake public - SF merely communicated the family's wishes as did a number of local media outlets.

Whether you or any of your ilk like it or not, Bobby Storey was a very well liked and respected man is his community and you can make up whatever wee fantasies you wish but that won't change anything.

Solutionking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There are 6 parties in an Executive not a government - the government is in Westminster.
Just recently, 5 of those parties tried to put through restrictions and were stopped by an abuse of the Cross Community veto on two occasions and had to cobble together a watered down version.

Not unlike the Dublin government having to admit the medical experts were right and go to Level 5, the DUP had to similarly accept the medical advice and the opinion of the other 5 parties and more stringent circuit breaker is being brought in. \

Completely wrong analysis to suggest that the other parties are not doing anything.

What has Dublin got to do with the North?
I asked multiple times what SF are doing for the people of Northern Ireland during Covid and yet to get a single response. Now you are saying they are doing something? what is it?

Solutionking

Solutionking wrote: »

I'm not hiding behind anything. Thousands of people died to get a GFA and Stormont and now it just "Meh". The utter failure is on the part of SF and DUP. The lack of ability for either party to work for the voters. So fix those two and then Stormont is prefect.
A bit of respect would be nice around this forum.

I am respectful??

Stormont simply deosnt work,and isnt fit for purpose,

hiding behind dead bodies to insulsate yourself from what is a political reality is many multiples more disrespectful imo



How many are going to die,because the.dup pulled plug on covid restrictions?

grayzer75

aido79 wrote: »

Maybe it's time for Sinn Fein to head over to Westminster and do what they actually get paid for if stormont isn't working?

How exactly do you see reunification panning out? Border poll, little discussion between North and South on how to move forward and then carry on as a United Ireland...or complete sh$tshow? My money is on option 2.

They're abstentionists from the British parliament and voted for accordingly.

It's not up to SF to carry out the discussions for reunification - that's between Dublin and London but they have every right to call for a border poll.

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

What has Dublin got to do with the North?
I asked multiple times what SF are doing for the people of Northern Ireland during Covid and yet to get a single response. Now you are saying they are doing something? what is it?

Read that post...the answer you are looking for is in it.

And I will make comparisons if I think they are relevant. Despite your obvious discomfort.

James Brown

Seriously lads the Storey funeral, what's the goal here? To show SF members didn't engage in social distancing? They didn't. Nobody has disagreed or defended it. That's it really. Terrible form.

aido79

grayzer75 wrote: »

They're abstentionists from the British parliament and voted for accordingly.

It's not up to SF to carry out the discussions for reunification - that's between Dublin and London but they have every right to call for a border poll.

I was responding to blaaz saying that stormont wasn't working and proposed an alternative. I realise SF are abstentists but maybe it's time to get past that if stormont isn't working. I 100% agree that stormont will never work so something needs to change.

Every thing in the North seems to be either green or orange. I'm surprised they're not talking about separate strains of the virus for Catholics and Protestants so there's a long way to go before reunification is even considered. Like everything else SF can call for whatever they want but they're just shouting from the sidelines in both North and South.

McMurphy

aido79 wrote: »

I was responding to blaaz saying that stormont wasn't working and proposed an alternative. I realise SF are abstentists but maybe it's time to get past that if stormont isn't working. I 100% agree that stormont will never work so something needs to change.

Problem with that is there's a sizeable cohort of the electorate in the north who view the British Government as having no legitimacy in their country, and vote for Sinn Fein because they abstain. They've been abstaining from taking their seats in Westminster since they were formed, it's not a new concept.

Every thing in the North seems to be either green or orange. I'm surprised they're not talking about separate strains of the virus for Catholics and Protestants so there's a long way to go before reunification is even considered. Like everything else SF can call for whatever they want but they're just shouting from the sidelines in both North and South.

Edwin Poots stopped just short of doing exactly that.

joeguevara

McMurphy wrote: »

Problem with that is there's a sizeable cohort of the electorate in the north who view the British Government as having no legitimacy in their country, and vote for Sinn Fein because they abstain. They've been abstaining from taking their seats in Westminster since they were formed, it's not a new concept.



Edwin Poots stopped just short of doing exactly that.

This is an excellent post and explains to a good degree why there is never a clear answer on how best to proceed in Northern Ireland.

aido79

McMurphy wrote: »

Problem with that is there's a sizeable cohort of the electorate in the north who view the British Government as having no legitimacy in their country, and vote for Sinn Fein because they abstain. They've been abstaining from taking their seats in Westminster since they were formed, it's not a new concept.



Edwin Poots stopped just short of doing exactly that.

And vice versa. There is a sizable cohort of the electorate in the North who would view the Irish Government as having no legitimacy in their country if reunification became a reality.
I'm well aware that it's not a new concept. I do think it is something that needs to change though.

aido79

aido79 wrote: »

I was responding to blaaz saying that stormont wasn't working and proposed an alternative. I realise SF are abstentists but maybe it's time to get past that if stormont isn't working. I 100% agree that stormont will never work so something needs to change.

I cannot see,why anyone in the 21st century,would swear an oath of loyalty to any crown...be it uk,spain,denmark etc,its a woefully outdated system of goverence,which noone should help perpetuate

Every thing in the North seems to be either green or orange. I'm surprised they're not talking about separate strains of the virus for Catholics and Protestants so there's a long way to go before reunification is even considered. Like everything else SF can call for whatever they want but they're just shouting from the sidelines in both North and South.

There is only one party applying orange/green to covid crisis,even in the north previous to this restrictions were too loose,for too long(i.got snapchats off mates partying in pubs,while i havnt met most my friends in near on 12 months now).....its ended in a mess,time to end it as a country,and reunify

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

Not shooting any messenger, you are absolutely obsessed with a dead mans funeral and everything you post about it is false.

It was his family's decision to have the wake public - SF merely communicated the family's wishes as did a number of local media outlets.

Whether you or any of your ilk like it or not, Bobby Storey was a very well liked and respected man is his community and you can make up whatever wee fantasies you wish but that won't change anything.

Blaming the family now??

Bobby Storey was not a very well liked and respected man. Not a single tribute was paid to him outside of SF/IRA which tells a lot about how he was viewed. He was a man feared inside and outside his community.

Bowie wrote: »

Seriously lads the Storey funeral, what's the goal here? To show SF members didn't engage in social distancing? They didn't. Nobody has disagreed or defended it. That's it really. Terrible form.

It's gone way beyond that Bowie, the Storey funeral is still making headlines. Had there been some sincere apologies at the time, it might have gone away, if Michelle had stepped away after a week, it might have gone away then, but the failure to address genuine public concerns is coming back to haunt Sinn Fein on this one. They really haven't figured out how to deal with criticism, only used to throwing it out indiscriminately.

When you spend your life shouting out from the murky corners, having a bright light shone on you with a mirror to your actions can be quite shocking. That is what SF are having to get used to.

McMurphy

aido79 wrote: »

And vice versa. There is a sizable cohort of the electorate in the North who would view the Irish Government as having no legitimacy in their country if reunification became a reality.
I'm well aware that it's not a new concept. I do think it is something that needs to change though.

They will have their chance to voice their concerns about that through any upcoming border poll though.

Also, there will need to be detailed discussion on what unification will mean to these folks, it's wrong to assume a unified Ireland will be the same as the Ireland we know now.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

Problem with that is there's a sizeable cohort of the electorate in the north who view the British Government as having no legitimacy in their country, and vote for Sinn Fein because they abstain. They've been abstaining from taking their seats in Westminster since they were formed, it's not a new concept.



Edwin Poots stopped just short of doing exactly that.

Funny how the rest of the world can talk about the vulnerability of the BAME population to the virus without a problem but any talk about whether one community of Northern Ireland is more susceptible to the disease gets shouted down with cries of sectarianism.

Sectarian head counts are ok when calling for a border poll, but dare anyone look at Covid-19 states per local authority area.

blanch152

McMurphy wrote: »

They will have their chance to voice their concerns about that through any upcoming border poll though.

Also, there will need to be detailed discussion on what unification will mean to these folks, it's wrong to assume a unified Ireland will be the same as the Ireland we know now.

Don't know about that, many of them will be dead before there is a border poll. If there isn't one in the immediate aftermath of Brexit or some other external shock, there mightn't be one for decades as the numbers aren't shifting.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Blaming the family now??

Bobby Storey was not a very well liked and respected man. Not a single tribute was paid to him outside of SF/IRA which tells a lot about how he was viewed. He was a man feared inside and outside his community.




It's gone way beyond that Bowie, the Storey funeral is still making headlines. Had there been some sincere apologies at the time, it might have gone away, if Michelle had stepped away after a week, it might have gone away then, but the failure to address genuine public concerns is coming back to haunt Sinn Fein on this one. They really haven't figured out how to deal with criticism, only used to throwing it out indiscriminately.

When you spend your life shouting out from the murky corners, having a bright light shone on you with a mirror to your actions can be quite shocking. That is what SF are having to get used to.

I think you see it as a bigger deal than I do. Which is fair enough. They should have socially distanced, they didn't. They apologised.
If there's something else to be outraged about I don't see it. I'm speaking as someone who watched a family members service streamed online.
There should be a separation though. Issues with Storey the man, issues with the funeral, issues with SF regarding the funeral. Jumping back and forth to try drum up some legitimacy to the outrage is very transparent IMO.

aido79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I cannot see,why anyone in the 21st century,would swear an oath of loyalty to any crown...be it uk,spain,denmark etc,its a woefully outdated system of goverence,which noone should help perpetuate

As I said something needs to change and this would be something that should change. I agree that itshouldn't be part of a modern government.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There is only one party applying orange/green to covid crisis,even in the north previous to this restrictions were too loose,for too long(i.got snapchats off mates partying in pubs,while i havnt met most my friends in near on 12 months now).....its ended in a mess,time to end it as a country,and reunify

Would you like to answer my previous question on how you see reunification panning out?

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

Funny how the rest of the world can talk about the vulnerability of the BAME population to the virus without a problem but any talk about whether one community of Northern Ireland is more susceptible to the disease gets shouted down with cries of sectarianism.

Sectarian head counts are ok when calling for a border poll, but dare anyone look at Covid-19 states per local authority area.

What genitics make one community more susceptible to the other in NI,they have literally co-existed for centuries,with significant crossover between em?

aido79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Kind of same logic could apply to the sizable cohort of population who didnt vote for greens or ffg and left with them as government??

There's some truth in that...but it's reversible in the next election. That's not the case with reunification.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Blaming the family now??

Bobby Storey was not a very well liked and respected man. Not a single tribute was paid to him outside of SF/IRA which tells a lot about how he was viewed. He was a man feared inside and outside his community.

That might speak volumes to the hypocrisy of those who have good terrorists and bad terrorist agendas.
Compare and contrast the hypocrisy about what FG and FF's roots did in a conflict war and what people did in the latest one.
Compare and contrast with Martin McGuinness who was in the same organisation and took the same same road as Storey.

The hypocrisy is consistent, there is that.

It's gone way beyond that Bowie, the Storey funeral is still making headlines. Had there been some sincere apologies at the time, it might have gone away, if Michelle had stepped away after a week, it might have gone away then, but the failure to address genuine public concerns is coming back to haunt Sinn Fein on this one. They really haven't figured out how to deal with criticism, only used to throwing it out indiscriminately.

When you spend your life shouting out from the murky corners, having a bright light shone on you with a mirror to your actions can be quite shocking. That is what SF are having to get used to.

The police inquiry is making headlines...fairly minor ones if truthful. One suspects the shining lights is being done because lights are being shone on a certain political party's leader...i.e. deflection and distraction.

aido79

aido79 wrote: »

As I said something needs to change and this would be something that should change. I agree that itshouldn't be part of a modern government.

Monarchys the world over should be banned imo,it flys in face of all i believe

Would you like to answer my previous question on how you see reunification panning out?

It will pan out grand,if not highly sucessful for poorest communities in NI working class loyalists will benefit much more than middle class catholics

,the uda wont bomb their way outta a utd ireland,no more than pira could bomb their way to one....

They could bomb to a political.compromise,but there is ample appitide within irish politics to compromise and make it work,

there is no thatcher type figure in irish politics interested in lording it over everyone else

blanch152

Deleted User wrote: »

What genitics make one community more susceptible to the other in NI,they have literally co-existed for centuries,with significant crossover between em?

Never said it was genetics. It seems it isn't either in BAME communities. Greater exposure to risk is the biggest factor there with BAME communities more involved in front-line work for example. Behavioural theorists would be able to look at other risk factors. Community leadership plays a role hence the focus on the Storey funeral.

Remember communities, housing and education are still very much divided along sectarian lines in Northern Ireland. Different community leadership can have different Covid outcomes as a result.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The police inquiry is making headlines...fairly minor ones if truthful. One suspects the shining lights is being done because lights are being shone on a certain political party's leader...i.e. deflection and distraction.

Are you saying that journalists in the Irish News share your obsession with Leo?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Are you saying that journalists in the Irish News share your obsession with Leo?

No, I was talking about the cohort here.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, I was talking about the cohort here.

Are we all supposed to ignore the regular articles in the Belfast Telegraph and Irish News about the Storey funeral and pretend it has all gone away?

McMurphy

blanch152 wrote: »

Funny how the rest of the world can talk about the vulnerability of the BAME population to the virus without a problem but any talk about whether one community of Northern Ireland is more susceptible to the disease gets shouted down with cries of sectarianism.

Sectarian head counts are ok when calling for a border poll, but dare anyone look at Covid-19 states per local authority area.

What a sad and petty attempt at implying there was anything remotely sectarian in my post, especially from a poster who referred to people from the north living in the south as "refugees".

Up the yard.

aido79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Monarchys the world over should be banned imo,it flys in face of all i believe






It will pan out grand,if not highly sucessful for poorest communities in NI working class loyalists will benefit much more than middle class catholics

,the uda wont bomb their way outta a utd ireland,no more than pira could bomb their way to one....

They could bomb to a political.compromise,but there is ample appitide within irish politics to compromise and make it work,

there is no thatcher type figure in irish politics interested in lording it over everyone else

Any idea on a timeframe for it panning out grand?

smurgen

For all those putting the blame of covid in the North on Sinn Fein I must wonder... If we're to apply the same logic then surely we can blame FF/FG for the lack of agreement on Brexit? I mean if DUP and Tory party are so easy to deal with then surely it's FF/FG are being the difficult ones.