The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

joeguevara

grayzer75 wrote: »

Sorry for using those names as a direct comparison to what SF are doing Mr Moderator...........

No worries, just interesting that they were used and so many SF supporters say they are criminals.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not for an all island party. They didn't impose partition, and as I said before, there is no republican I know that would allow partition to disadvantage them. Within the law of course.
If there were rules broken in paying for stuff from the wrong account, then they should pay whatever penalty there is for that.

Not sure what the interrogation is about here Joe.

Not an interrogation. You are a regular poster, and was interested in your thoughts.

grayzer75

joeguevara wrote: »

No worries, just interesting that they were used and so many SF supporters say they are criminals.

I never said they were criminals, legal financial shenanigans that's all. If it's good for the goose and all that jazz.....

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

Not an interrogation. You are a regular poster, and was interested in your thoughts.

What are your thoughts on party finances? Do you think the depositions to SIPO are honest and above board?

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes Brendan.

I am not one of the cohort who think that an 'allegation' or a 'feeling in my water' is enough to convict.

And as to the 'withdraw' remark...never afraid to admit I may have been wrong about something.

Nobody is “afraid” here Francie, aren’t we all friends.

Brendan Bendar

grayzer75 wrote: »

Sorry for using those names as a direct comparison to what SF are doing Mr Moderator...........

You must work for RTE, think that sorry covers everything.

Yeah_Right

grayzer75 wrote: »

The financial shenanigans are no worse than that of Denis O'Brien, Dermot Desmond, Michael Smurfit, JP McManus, Larry Goodman or that Dutch band U2. If they can do it 'legally' then so can SF or anybody else. Although the only time you cry about it is when it's not a FFG backer doing it.

They're all private citizens using legal loopholes to avoid paying massive amounts of tax. SF are political party with designs on being in government. Do you see the difference?

Saying its fine for SF because those others do it is seriously some Trumpian thinking.

Melanchthon

Any thoughts about why SF seem to be backing down from voting on the impeachment of Woulfe, as someone who will tend to put them 1st or 2nd depending it's making me pretty angry.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Nobody is “afraid” here Francie, aren’t we all friends.

The privilege of being able to choose my friends is one I treat with the utmost respect Brendi.
You will be notified if you are successful, until such time, don't assume, it is rather clingy, needy and unbecoming.

FrancieBrady

Melanchthon wrote: »

Any thoughts about why SF seem to be backing down from voting on the impeachment of Woulfe, as someone who will tend to put them 1st or 2nd depending it's making me pretty angry.

Surely not 'seem' to be backing down. They said they wouldn't back it, did they not?

Melanchthon

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Surely not 'seem' to be backing down. They said they wouldn't back it, did they not?

That's what I have read today , I say seem though as perhaps there is something coming they are going to initiate like a no confidence motion in the minister of justice.

If they drop this it will be a good example that SF are happy to only be a token opposition and might be afraid of real power in the Republic or they are too concerned with being a South Dublin friendly party. Considering their track record is pretty poor in Northern Ireland too, and genuinely I do always give them a high preference, if they dont start taking things seriously they might throwaway one of their best chances.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The privilege of being able to choose my friends is one I treat with the utmost respect Brendi.
You will be notified if you are successful, until such time, don't assume, it is rather clingy, needy and unbecoming.

Hopefully I won’t be successful, doubt if I could manage endless rhetoric and populist waffle. Not my type dude.

Soz

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Hopefully I won’t be successful, doubt if I could manage endless rhetoric and populist waffle. Not my type dude.

Soz

It's the wannabe 'dude' Americana that is a real no deal for me. Can't bear that in a friend. Prefer those that are happy in their own skins, warts and all.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What are your thoughts on party finances? Do you think the depositions to SIPO are honest and above board?

I think SF have issues with their transparency of finances and I don't think the inheritance lodgment was treated correctly. I think that they are using the jurisdiction differences to make SIPO redundant.

James Brown

joeguevara wrote: »

I think SF have issues with their transparency of finances and I don't think the inheritance lodgment was treated correctly. I think that they are using the jurisdiction differences to make SIPO redundant.

Do you think any party is 100% on the up and up over their finances? Not excusing it but hardly a SF issue alone.
As with tax paying there is bound to be loop holes and cooking of books. Tough thing to police.

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

The financial shenanigans are no worse than that of Denis O'Brien, Dermot Desmond, Michael Smurfit, JP McManus, Larry Goodman or that Dutch band U2. If they can do it 'legally' then so can SF or anybody else. Although the only time you cry about it is when it's not a FFG backer doing it.

Not at all. I have condemned all of the above.

Take JP for example, I have no time for his limited charity to the GAA, condescending and patronising that it is. I have criticised Bono and the lads for their activity too.

Happy to put SF in the same company as every other tax dodger.

aido79

Melanchthon wrote: »

That's what I have read today , I say seem though as perhaps there is something coming they are going to initiate like a no confidence motion in the minister of justice.

What would be the point of that unless they think some members of FF, FG or the Greens would also vote no confidence in the Minister for Justice? I don't think anyone would believe that would happen.

Melanchthon wrote: »

If they drop this it will be a good example that SF are happy to only be a token opposition and might be afraid of real power in the Republic or they are too concerned with being a South Dublin friendly party. Considering their track record is pretty poor in Northern Ireland too, and genuinely I do always give them a high preference, if they dont start taking things seriously they might throwaway one of their best chances.

Perhaps it would seem a bit hypocritical to support this in the same week their deputy leader in the north has some questions to answer for the PSNI about social distancing guidelines.

Can I ask what you mean by "one of their best chances "?

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

I think SF have issues with their transparency of finances and I don't think the inheritance lodgment was treated correctly. I think that they are using the jurisdiction differences to make SIPO redundant.

The jurisdiction differences exist, and we know through SIPO they broke no rules here.

What about across the board, do you think all party's need scrutiny?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Happy to put SF in the same company as every other tax dodger.

Were SF caught like FG?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/fine-gael-admits-tax-evasion-over-period-of-9-years-1.307406?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Ffine-gael-admits-tax-evasion-over-period-of-9-years-1.307406

joeguevara

Bowie wrote: »

Do you think any party is 100% on the up and up over their finances? Not excusing it but hardly a SF issue alone.
As with tax paying there is bound to be loop holes and cooking of books. Tough thing to police.

I could say that I will only discuss SF on a SF thread but that helps nobody. Also I dislike all political parties in some shape or form, so to do so makes it look like I am trying to protect other parties. I don't know much of parties finances but am sure there have been issues. Id say that it was worse in the 90s and noughties e. G. Galway tent. The inheritance issue is doubtfully one that could happen other parties though

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Were SF caught like FG?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/fine-gael-admits-tax-evasion-over-period-of-9-years-1.307406?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Ffine-gael-admits-tax-evasion-over-period-of-9-years-1.307406

2001?

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The jurisdiction differences exist, and we know through SIPO they broke no rules here.

What about across the board, do you think all party's need scrutiny?

Of course all parties need ongoing scrutiny.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

2001?

Yes 2001. I asked were SF caught in the same way, as the poster called them 'tax dodgers'.
If there is a similar instance I would like to read about it. Or is this poster engagig in his legendary, 'allegation is enough to convict' when it comes to SF.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not for an all island party. They didn't impose partition, and as I said before, there is no republican I know that would allow partition to disadvantage them. Within the law of course.
If there were rules broken in paying for stuff from the wrong account, then they should pay whatever penalty there is for that.

Not sure what the interrogation is about here Joe.

So you are saying that Mary-Lou lied to SIPO when she said that Sinn Fein "operated separately on “a six-and 26-country basis”"? That is quite a serious accusation you are making.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-targets-sinn-f%C3%A9in-in-law-to-strengthen-sipo-powers-on-donations-1.4403747


https://www.sipo.ie/reports-and-publications/political-party-accounts/statement-of-accounts-by-2/2018-Sinn-Fein.pdf

There are some strange figures in the Sinn Fein accounts.

38 staff are paid €1,922,011, an average over €50k (see note 8), yet according to note 23, seven key management personnel are paid only €38,359. Something doesn't add up again.

James Brown

joeguevara wrote: »

I could say that I will only discuss SF on a SF thread but that helps nobody. Also I dislike all political parties in some shape or form, so to do so makes it look like I am trying to protect other parties. I don't know much of parties finances but am sure there have been issues. Id say that it was worse in the 90s and noughties e. G. Galway tent. The inheritance issue is doubtfully one that could happen other parties though

Again, not stopping you discussing SF. Pointing out it's a cross party issue and tough to police.

FrancieBrady

joeguevara wrote: »

Of course all parties need ongoing scrutiny.

And SF had recent 'scrutiny' but still the finger pointing.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Were SF caught like FG?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/fine-gael-admits-tax-evasion-over-period-of-9-years-1.307406?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Ffine-gael-admits-tax-evasion-over-period-of-9-years-1.307406

You missed the point, Sinn Fein are claiming they are the same as Denis O'Brien, U2 et al, moving money and income between jurisdictions to avoid tax. That is the essence of their claim to SIPO.

Nothing illegal about it, but a damn more serious than forgetting to pay tax on one-for-all Christmas vouchers to staff.

joeguevara

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And SF had recent 'scrutiny' but still the finger pointing.

I don't believe that there has been full scrutiny. You admitted the same yourself and withdrew the comment regarding UK watchdog. I'm not pointing fingers, and to be accused of that makes it difficult to raise issues to discuss. I simply said it is an open issue and is not closed.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

So you are saying that Mary-Lou lied to SIPO when she said that Sinn Fein "operated separately on “a six-and 26-country basis”"? That is quite a serious accusation you are making.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/fine-gael-targets-sinn-f%C3%A9in-in-law-to-strengthen-sipo-powers-on-donations-1.4403747


https://www.sipo.ie/reports-and-publications/political-party-accounts/statement-of-accounts-by-2/2018-Sinn-Fein.pdf

They are an all island party that have two jurisdictions to operate in and two sets of regulations.

There are some strange figures in the Sinn Fein accounts.

38 staff are paid €1,922,011, an average over €50k (see note 8), yet according to note 23, seven key management personnel are paid only €38,359. Something doesn't add up again.

Why not leave the financial forensics to the experts blanch?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You missed the point, Sinn Fein are claiming they are the same as Denis O'Brien, U2 et al, moving money and income between jurisdictions to avoid tax. That is the essence of their claim to SIPO.

Nothing illegal about it, but a damn more serious than forgetting to pay tax on one-for-all Christmas vouchers to staff.

'Serious' for whom? Certainly not serious enough for SIPO to take action.