The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

A) FF and the Greens are also in government now, with a FF TD having the housing portfolio.
SF are in government in the North where homelessness is much worse than in the ROI, in fact NI account for 1/4 of the UK's homelessness.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-homeless-deaths-account-for-quarter-of-uk-figures-38642522.html?fbclid=IwAR2NEjap32EbxDwU1KdDrJN3gEZfPfrwHRkJR8iBBEHOzcaMUVBLo4VMiqA

SF should not be throwing stones about homelessness when under their watch they have some of the worst homelessness in Europe.

Claim

“There are 20,000 people homeless in Northern Ireland”.

Who made the claim?

It came from the Taoiseach Leo Varadkar during the leaders’ debate on RTɒs Prime Time on Tuesday night. He challenged Sinn Féin president Mary Lou McDonald on her party’s record in government in the North.///

///

Our verdict

False. While the official figures are that just under 20,000 households presented as homeless in Northern Ireland in 2018, only 12,512 met the legal requirements of homelessness and were accepted as “full duty applicants”.

It is simply not possible to compare the two systems - or sets of figures - because of the significant differences in approach, methodology and criteria.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-fact-check-how-many-people-are-homeless-in-northern-ireland-1.4162666

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

A) FF and the Greens are also in government now, with a FF TD having the housing portfolio.
SF are in government in the North where homelessness is much worse than in the ROI, in fact NI account for 1/4 of the UK's homelessness.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-homeless-deaths-account-for-quarter-of-uk-figures-38642522.html?fbclid=IwAR2NEjap32EbxDwU1KdDrJN3gEZfPfrwHRkJR8iBBEHOzcaMUVBLo4VMiqA

SF should not be throwing stones about homelessness when under their watch they have some of the worst homelessness in Europe.

So we should be blaming one party in the South too?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/election-2020-fact-check-how-many-people-are-homeless-in-northern-ireland-1.4162666

Thats lovely, but I didn't make the claim, but I did reference this..

Eighty women have died in Northern Ireland in an eighteen month period as a result of being homeless.

The figures include a 101-year-old woman in Belfast and 17 women aged over the age of 80, according to figures from the Bureau of Investigative Journalism.

Some 205 homeless people in Northern Ireland died in that 18 month period, accounting for more than 25% of the 800 homeless deaths in the UK, figures gathered by the Bureau of Investigative Journalism during the same period show.

Northern Ireland's population of 1.9 million accounts for 2.8% of the UK's total population.

Are you refuting these figures?

markodaly

Bowie wrote: »

So we should be blaming one party in the South too?

It's hypocritical for SF ROI to be giving out about homelessness when SF UK are presiding over some of the worst homelessness in Europe.

NI consists of 1.8% of the population of the UK, yet has 25% of its homelessness.

Deirdre Hargey, is the Sinn Féin MLA who is in charge of housing in the North. She also raised rents for social welfare recipients and people living in public housing last month.

So, yes. These blatant actions of hypocrisy need to be pointed out and condemned for what they are. Soundbite populist politics.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Thats lovely, but I didn't make the claim, but I did reference this..





Are you refuting these figures?

No, just pointing out how FG have form for lying about these things when under scrutiny themselves.

I.E. pointing at themuns doesn't excuse.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No,

So you accept that NI is the worst place in the UK for homelessness and one of the worst place in Europe. SF are to blame for this.

[This is a SF thread, not a FG thread]

smurgen

Bishop of hope wrote: »

You grew up in it I assume?
You're metric for attaching blame for everything wrong on the govt is boloxology as is your assumption of how people feel over tragedies.
You can stick your assumption on my feelings anyway where the sun don't shine you nice fella you.
Now back to SF on the SF thread, how many murders and rapes, kidnapping and dissapearence as well as kneecap pings and other types of torture would you say they have excused in their time.
Your little faux outrage outburst doesn't fool me one bit.

Excused? Tell me this how do you feel about FG wanting to celebrate the RIC? The lads that done atrocities like this back in the day?

https://twitter.com/irelandbattles/status/1331749856197697537?s=19

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

It's hypocritical for SF ROI to be giving out about homelessness when SF UK are presiding over some of the worst homelessness in Europe.

NI consists of 1.8% of the population of the UK, yet has 25% of its homelessness.

Deirdre Hargey, is the Sinn Féin MLA who is in charge of housing in the North. She also raised rents for social welfare recipients and people living in public housing last month.

So, yes. These blatant actions of hypocrisy need to be pointed out and condemned for what they are. Soundbite populist politics.

No its not. You do know its two jurisdictions and two different forms of government consisting of different parties?
SF should not represent the people who voted for them and the broader Irish society because the power share in the North is preforming badly? That's nonsense quite frankly.
As is constantly ignoring due criticism of the government here by elected opposition here.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

So you accept that NI is the worst place in the UK for homelessness and one of the worst place in Europe. SF are to blame for this.

[This is a SF thread, not a FG thread]

I accept that the reason Leo lied is that there are 'incomparable systems' Let FG have a go under the NI system then they call people hypocrites.

Until then the opposition will do it's job here and call out those responsible here.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I accept that the reason Leo lied is that there are 'incomparable systems' Let FG have a go under the NI system then they call people hypocrites.

Until then the opposition will do it's job here and call out those responsible here.

Yet more of the 'But but FG...'
As I mentioned, this is a SF thread, not a FG one.
Bring FG up in the FG thread, it's quite simple.

However, as you ignored my post about SF presiding over the worst homeless situation in the UK and some of the worst in the entire EU, I will take that as a tact admission that yes, SF shoulder some of the blame to that situation.

markodaly

Bowie wrote: »

No its not. You do know its two jurisdictions and two different forms of government consisting of different parties?
SF should not represent the people who voted for them and the broader Irish society because the power share in the North is preforming badly? That's nonsense quite frankly.
As is constantly ignoring due criticism of the government hereby elected opposition here.

In essence, SF UK is absolved of any and all criticism in running their ministries because they are in a power-sharing agreement.

Is that the essence of what you are saying?

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

In essence, SF UK is absolved of any and all criticism in running their ministries because they are in a power-sharing agreement.

Is that the essence of what you are saying?

Nope.
You seem to believe SF politicians elected in this jurisdiction have no business representing the people who elected them because a different system of government in another jurisdiction isn't doing well. It's completely bizarre and wrong.

Bishop of hope

smurgen wrote: »

Excused? Tell me this how do you feel about FG wanting to celebrate the RIC? The lads that done atrocities like this back in the day?

https://twitter.com/irelandbattles/status/1331749856197697537?s=19

No. I did it several times and it's a SF thread.
And SF endorse their successors afaik.

FrancieBrady

Bowie wrote: »

Nope.
You seem to believe SF politicians elected in this jurisdiction have no business representing the people who elected them because a different system of government in another jurisdiction isn't doing well. It's completely bizarre and wrong.

The issue in a nutshell.

If these guys want t call out SF for hypocrisy they need to get into that jurisdiction and show it can be managed better.
Otherwise you have to take into account the differences in the systems.

Not to say for a second that SF don't deserve criticism.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The issue in a nutshell.

If these guys want t call out SF for hypocrisy they need to get into that jurisdiction and show it can be managed better.
Otherwise you have to take into account the differences in the systems.

Not to say for a second that SF don't deserve criticism.

It is Sinn Fein hypocrisy to call out this government when they are doing worse in another jurisdiction. Simple as that.

How can Sinn Fein have any credibility on issues like homelessness and Covid-19 when they are making such a dogs dinner of both those issues in the North?

Will Sinn Fein give the Greens a pass in the next general election because they were a small part of the Coalition government? No, and the Greens don't expect that, but Sinn Fein expect a pass for every wrong thing that they do and every mistake that they make and then their supporters whinge on here if anyone points this out. It is senior hurling lads.

blanch152

markodaly wrote: »

A) FF and the Greens are also in government now, with a FF TD having the housing portfolio.
SF are in government in the North where homelessness is much worse than in the ROI, in fact NI account for 1/4 of the UK's homelessness.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-homeless-deaths-account-for-quarter-of-uk-figures-38642522.html?fbclid=IwAR2NEjap32EbxDwU1KdDrJN3gEZfPfrwHRkJR8iBBEHOzcaMUVBLo4VMiqA

SF should not be throwing stones about homelessness when under their watch they have some of the worst homelessness in Europe.

Those figures are shocking. 205 in 18 months equates to 136 in one year and applied to the South would mean more than 400 a year in the South.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/homeless-deaths-in-last-seven-days-rises-to-five-after-mans-body-found-1027470.html

We are getting exercised about hitting 50, when the rate in the North is eight times that.

On every measure across every policy it seems that Sinn Fein in government in the North is producing a far worse outcome than the South.

I challenge the Sinn Fein supporters on here to produce a single statistic that shows that things are better under the Sinn Fein government in the North than the current government in the South, and explain to us what actions of Sinn Fein have resulted in that better outcome.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

It is Sinn Fein hypocrisy to call out this government when they are doing worse in another jurisdiction. Simple as that.

How can Sinn Fein have any credibility on issues like homelessness and Covid-19 when they are making such a dogs dinner of both those issues in the North?

Will Sinn Fein give the Greens a pass in the next general election because they were a small part of the Coalition government? No, and the Greens don't expect that, but Sinn Fein expect a pass for every wrong thing that they do and every mistake that they make and then their supporters whinge on here if anyone points this out. It is senior hurling lads.

Newtown is a well seasoned critic of SF normally. But here he judges SF taking into account the 'executive' and what is in their power to change and a policy tailored to the environment they are in.
The problem for SF is that they are in two different environments and policy is off course different as are their powers.

No issue with them being criticised if do what Newton does. Be like Newton blanch.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/success-on-housing-in-north-could-be-sinn-f%C3%A9in-s-route-to-government-in-south-1.4400175

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

He is defending terrorist atrocities.

You are some boy for posting lies.

Nobotty

Its only going to get worse in the North as the Westminster injection dries up with a new round of UK austerity
Nowhere have the FG bots explained how SF could increase the monies going to the North
The only method to increase monies for the north,until it can stand on its own feet,is a successful border poll and they're certainly doing a lot of advocating for that

jh79

Nobotty wrote: »

Its only going to get worse in the North as the Westminster injection dries up with a new round of UK austerity
Nowhere have the FG bots explained how SF could increase the monies going to the North
The only method to increase monies for the north,until it can stand on its own feet,is a successful border poll and they're certainly doing a lot of advocating for that

Based on the last opinion polls both in the Republic and the North, the source of this money will need to be established for a successful border poll.

Bishop of hope

Nobotty wrote: »

Its only going to get worse in the North as the Westminster injection dries up with a new round of UK austerity
Nowhere have the FG bots explained how SF could increase the monies going to the North
The only method to increase monies for the north,until it can stand on its own feet,is a successful border poll and they're certainly doing a lot of advocating for that

It could help if SF returned money paid to them in error promptly so it could go to the needy recipients of it.
There's ample chat on here lately of the true cost of running the north and how little it actually costs to subvent it, doesn't actually tally with your statement there.
There were pensions to be paid out recently to violence victims families and SF actually blocked it from happening for months before it was finally given the green light.
A piss poor indulgent and notional party of one agenda policy.
Nothing else matters to them, **** or burst on one issue party.

markodaly

Bowie wrote: »

Nope.
You seem to believe SF politicians elected in this jurisdiction have no business representing the people who elected them because a different system of government in another jurisdiction isn't doing well. It's completely bizarre and wrong.

SF ROI is giving out about homeless figures in the ROI, when we have SF UK MLA's acting as minister for communities, in charge of public housing raising rents.

This is blatant hypocrisy. Nothing else. It should and will be called out, every day of the week.

theballz

grayzer75 wrote: »

You are some boy for posting lies.

Possibly.

But one thing is undeniable, SF is linked to terrorist groups (not just the IRA,) they are heavily linked to the Kinahan cartel.

grayzer75

markodaly wrote: »

SF ROI is giving out about homeless figures in the ROI, when we have SF UK MLA's acting as minister for communities, in charge of public housing raising rents.

This is blatant hypocrisy. Nothing else. It should and will be called out, every day of the week.

The average rent in the north is £653 (€733) per month and hasn't moved more than £30 either way in the last two years yet the average rent in the south now stands at €1,418, almost double and you're talking about hypocrisy.

blanch152

grayzer75 wrote: »

The average rent in the north is £653 (€733) per month and hasn't moved more than £30 either way in the last two years yet the average rent in the south now stands at €1,418, almost double and you're talking about hypocrisy.

Is that average rent for social housing?

P.S. How much do they get in social welfare and housing support to pay the rent in the North?

FrancieBrady

grayzer75 wrote: »

The average rent in the north is £653 (€733) per month and hasn't moved more than £30 either way in the last two years yet the average rent in the south now stands at €1,418, almost double and you're talking about hypocrisy.

That is before you move into the realm of why it is the Housing Authority has to raise rents in the first place.

Let FG or FF try to administer the failed state and then talk to us about hypocrisies. Deflection and 'look over thereism'.

grayzer75

blanch152 wrote: »

Is that average rent for social housing?

P.S. How much do they get in social welfare and housing support to pay the rent in the North?

Housing executive social housing is an average £68.27 per week with most of it covered by various benefits. The rents increased by £1.79 or 2.7% for the first time in 5 years.

Fann Linn

theballz wrote: »

Possibly.

But one thing is undeniable, SF is linked to terrorist groups (not just the IRA,) they are heavily linked to the Kinahan cartel.

I hope you've gone to the Gardai with your evidence.

grayzer75

theballz wrote: »

Possibly.

But one thing is undeniable, SF is linked to terrorist groups (not just the IRA,) they are heavily linked to the Kinahan cartel.

Aye sure the RA shot JR and John Lennon as well lol.....

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

It is Sinn Fein hypocrisy to call out this government when they are doing worse in another jurisdiction. Simple as that.

How can Sinn Fein have any credibility on issues like homelessness and Covid-19 when they are making such a dogs dinner of both those issues in the North?

Will Sinn Fein give the Greens a pass in the next general election because they were a small part of the Coalition government? No, and the Greens don't expect that, but Sinn Fein expect a pass for every wrong thing that they do and every mistake that they make and then their supporters whinge on here if anyone points this out. It is senior hurling lads.

No it's not. The SF politicians in the south represent the south. The ones in the north pushed for an all island tackling of Covid.

It's no pass, anyone who elected a SF politician in the south want representation in the south. You're talking complete nonsense.
Senior hurling? You are the lads making the balls of the match and looking to another game in a different field