The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You might not like why they did it, but they did it to pressure their way to the negotiating table and it resulted in the GFA. Which the people of Derry and the Falls road have rewarded their political wing since.

In other words, by your own admission, killing a 3 year old toddler was worth it.

That is called supporting a violent murder Francie. Own it for once.

*of course you are wrong, killing a 3 year old toddler did nothing to help that person in Derry or the falls road, as NI is still in the hands of the British and Westminister. In fact NI is one of the poorest parts of Europe, but hey something something civil rights.

I have routinely siad on here that ALL sdes share a portion of the blame...even partitionists.

Do you condem unequivocally the actions of the PIRA?

If so, why did you blame the murder of Lyra McKee on a line on the map, not the New IRA who killed her?

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

In other words, by your own admission, killing a 3 year old toddler was worth it.

That is called supporting a violent murder Francie. Own it for once.

*of course you are wrong, killing a 3 year old toddler did nothing to help that person in Derry or the falls road, as NI is still in the hands of the British and Westminister. In fact NI is one of the poorest parts of Europe, but hey something something civil rights.

No Mark, no matter how much you moralise you cannot assume that.

If the question is , 'did the murder of a toddler bring results' then yes...like bombing Hiroshoma and Nagasaki, like the Boston Tea Party, like bombing the Twin Towers, and as said like bombing Dublin and Monaghan, it brought results.
You do not have t support any of the actions to say the above.

They all brought results and we are debating WHAT THOSE RESULTS were not the morality of the actions.

You are confused, you cannot discuss history until you sort that anomaly out in your wee head.

Do you condem unequivocally the actions of the PIRA?

If so, why did you blame the murder of Lyra McKee on a line on the map, not the New IRA who killed her?

I am of the opinion that the cause of a certain amount of violence on this island is partition.

I condemn all that violence (something I have never seen you do) from the beginning, because it had a beginning.

Where I am different to you is that I unequivocally condemn all the violence and apportion blame based on what I think CAUSED that violence.

Of course you won't do that because you would have to attribute blame in the same way.

Truthvader

McMurphy wrote: »

The Army didn't collude with loyalist paramilitaries

I'll go one better than that, in many cases they were one and the same.

Ministers aware of UDR links with loyalists, archives show

UDR and RUC had elements that colluded 100%. The Army just wanted to be out of the place

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, read your history and don't lecture those who know it.

The British Army refused to break the Ulster Workers Strike barricades and allowed them to bring the place to a standstill and a regiment of the BA, the UDR actually assisted on those roadblocks.

More drivel. What did you want the Army to actually do?

Truthvader

maccored wrote: »

You dont get to moralise about what others done until you’ve at least some iota about what made them do it. You obviously dont.

Awww - you’d remember more about the 80s that i would. Thats lovely. I was going from teens to my twenties in the 80s. I remember quite a lot about what happened in the north because i lived there. Were you there too? If you were you might know what the UDR were like. If you werent, then you dont.

Who is promoting or defending the UDR?

Truthvader

maccored wrote: »

Except that of the british army. At least im honest about what i say

And its make stuff up again time in Sinn Fein

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

More drivel. What did you want the Army to actually do?

The Army, in the person of General Officer Commanding Sir Frank King made a political decision not to break the strike (a strike which was condemned and actively opposed by all Trades Unions BTW) in direct defiance of the wishes of the then NI Secretary Merlyn Rees and YOU ask what did I want the Army to do?
They had no problem bulldozing barricades erected to simply protect residents in the Bogside just a few years earlier.

They assisted the strike which was instrumental in bringing down Sunningdale by not acting against illegal blockades. You cannot dress it up any other way.

maccored

mynamejeff wrote: »

another barstool republican with delusions of grandeur passing the hate onto another generation of young fools

don't worry I remember the killings and bombings well

wtf are you on about now? another what what what? one minute i kill children now Im a barstool republican passing on hate.

maccored

Truthvader wrote: »

Who is promoting or defending the UDR?

you like answering replies to other people with irrelevant info? YOU and others defend the BA - part of whom was the UDR. Poor marko there for example - a lot of bitterness for anyone but the BA

maccored

mynamejeff wrote: »

Are you finding it hard to make a point with out a masked man with a gun in the background ?

youre the one accusing people of killing children, sitting on barstools and spreading hate. personally i had been wondering what you are on about but I see you cant give me a reply about the children Ive apparently killed.

Get rid of the hatred markodaly - its plain to see

maccored

Truthvader wrote: »

And its make stuff up again time in Sinn Fein

whos making stuff up? are you saying you ARENT defending the british army?

mynamejeff

maccored wrote: »

wtf are you on about now? another what what what? one minute i kill children now Im a barstool republican passing on hate.

did you ever denounce the murder of children and innocence's ?

or is it only the brits that can be the bad guys

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The Army, in the person of General Officer Commanding Sir Frank King made a political decision not to break the strike (a strike which was condemned and actively opposed by all Trades Unions BTW) in direct defiance of the wishes of the then NI Secretary Merlyn Rees and YOU ask what did I want the Army to do?
They had no problem bulldozing barricades erected to simply protect residents in the Bogside just a few years earlier.

They assisted the strike which was instrumental in bringing down Sunningdale by not acting against illegal blockades. You cannot dress it up any other way.

OK thats clear. You wanted them to attack the strikers. And them force them back to work? That would have saved Sunningdale for sure. NOT

Remember them standing around in front of blockades from all sides having stones thrown at them by the criminal thus element form all sides. A no win situation

mynamejeff

maccored wrote: »

youre the one accusing people of killing children, sitting on barstools and spreading hate. personally i had been wondering what you are on about but I see you cant give me a reply about the children Ive apparently killed.

Get rid of the hatred markodaly - its plain to see

the bile and hatred is making you confused , do you want to tag in francie for the difficult ones ?

id say spreading hate from a barstool is a fairly accurate description of what you are doing abet a internet version of it

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

OK thats clear. You wanted them to attack the strikers. And them force them back to work? That would have saved Sunningdale for sure. NOT

Remember them standing around in front of blockades from all sides having stones thrown at them by the criminal thus element form all sides. A no win situation

'I' didn't ask them to do anything Truth.

The NI secretary wanted them to and they refused to break the barricades.

You absolve them all you like it does not get away from the fact that their inaction assisted the strike.

Know your history, it is embarrassing to watch you guys get caught out in your ignorance again and again.

Truthvader

maccored wrote: »

whos making stuff up? are you saying you ARENT defending the british army?

I will defend the British Army where I think they behaved well. Not murders and Bloody Sunday etc.

Would you support them as they were attacked by Loyalist thugs or as they escorted the children of Holy Cross to school through a wall of baying animals?

It may be that you are so infected by the Sinn Fein IRA mindset that even when the Army are protecting "your side" you are so filled with hate you cant admit it.

Met a lot of British Army back in the day and they all said two things. 1. The RUC caused a lot of the trouble. 2. The whole province was a toxic cesspit and they couldn't wait to get out. Not one of them had the slightest interest in one side over the other

FrancieBrady

mynamejeff wrote: »

the bile and hatred is making you confused , do you want to tag in francie for the difficult ones ?

id say spreading hate from a barstool is a fairly accurate description of what you are doing abet a internet version of it

Why do you keep trying to involve me?

Another lovely example of a 'I'm holier than you' post BTW.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'I' didn't ask them to do anything Truth.

The NI secretary wanted them to and they refused to break the barricades.

You absolve them all you like it does not get away from the fact that their inaction assisted the strike.

Know your history, it is embarrassing to watch you guys get caught out in your ignorance again and again.

Just because the rest of us don't accept the Sinn Fein /IRA spin attached to everything you post is not evidence of ignorance. It is evidence of a critical mind examining the partisan nonsense you continually post

grayzer75

Truthvader wrote: »

I will defend the British Army where I think they behaved well. Not murders and Bloody Sunday etc.

Would you support them as they were attacked by Loyalist thugs or as they escorted the children of Holy Cross to school through a wall of baying animals?

It may be that you are so infected by the Sinn Fein IRA mindset that even when the Army are protecting "your side" you are so filled with hate you cant admit it.

Met a lot of British Army back in the day and they all said two things. 1. The RUC caused a lot of the trouble. 2. The whole province was a toxic cesspit and they couldn't wait to get out. Not one of them had the slightest interest in one side over the other

The British army ran the FRU - enough said.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

I will defend the British Army where I think they behaved well. Not murders and Bloody Sunday etc.

Would you support them as they were attacked by Loyalist thugs or as they escorted the children of Holy Cross to school through a wall of baying animals?

It may be that you are so infected by the Sinn Fein IRA mindset that even when the Army are protecting "your side" you are so filled with hate you cant admit it.

Met a lot of British Army back in the day and they all said two things. 1. The RUC caused a lot of the trouble. 2. The whole province was a toxic cesspit and they couldn't wait to get out. Not one of them had the slightest interest in one side over the other

Ah, thank you for doing your job is it?

Vary good.

Funny that there are no cases of them favouring the nationalist side over the loyalist/Unionism one pending, isn't it Truth?

BTW A squaddie is not going to know the bigger picture about what is going on. They follow orders and there are enough cases now to show that orders in a lot of incidents were to be partisan. How high up the chain of command it went remains to be seen.
And I would imagine nobody in any army wants to be in a conflict/war situation by choice, that would be sadistic and worrying if they were.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

Just because the rest of us don't accept the Sinn Fein /IRA spin attached to everything you post is not evidence of ignorance. It is evidence of a critical mind examining the partisan nonsense you continually post

YOU didn't know anything about this a few posts back Truth. You might cod yourself but nobody else. You jumped in to accuse me of lying about the involvement of the BA in assisting the strike.
Now you are giving us 'reasons' for why they didn't get involved...funny that.

There is no spin in what I have said/claimed.
Frank King refused to aquiesce to a request of the SoS to intervene in the strike.

By doing so he assisted the strike, there is no other way to look at it.

mynamejeff

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why do you keep trying to involve me?

Another lovely example of a 'I'm holier than you' post BTW.

you keep answering for your compatriot , that's involving yourself

am I holier that some one who supports the murder and maiming of innocents ?

More or less everyone is Francie , only a tiny % of people think and act they way you and the other lad do

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah, thank you for doing your job is it?

Vary good.

Funny that there are no cases of them favouring the nationalist side over the loyalist/Unionism one pending, isn't it Truth?

BTW A squaddie is not going to know the bigger picture about what is going on. They follow orders and there are enough cases now to show that orders in a lot of incidents were to be partisan. How high up the chain of command it went remains to be seen.
And I would imagine nobody in any army wants to be in a conflict/war situation by choice, that would be sadistic and worrying if they were.

The difference between the British Army and the IRA has been explained to you many many times.

There is not a single act of the IRA that can be justified or defended in any way - I think you agree with me on that, if you don't man up and admit it.

The British Army are the legitimate army of a democratic state. Some of what they did was dreadful, disgusting, unacceptable - you pick the words and I will agree with them. However, they were and are ultimately subject to democratic control through a democracy and much of what they did, actually most of what they did and do, was justified as the legitimate security force of a democratic state. I won't defend Bloody Sunday or any other independently documented acts of collusion or any other act of collusion that is shown to be true, so don't try and misinterpret and twist my post. Once again, to be absolutely clear, I am not defending any actions of the British Army, just setting out the facts.

FrancieBrady

mynamejeff wrote: »

you keep answering for your compatriot , that's involving yourself

am I holier that some one who supports the murder and maiming of innocents ?

More or less everyone is Francie , only a tiny % of people think and act they way you and the other lad do

Not even the IRA supports it, given that they have addressed the fact that it was wrong.

Get off that horse Jeff.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The difference between the British Army and the IRA has been explained to you many many times.

There is not a single act of the IRA that can be justified or defended in any way - I think you agree with me on that, if you don't man up and admit it.

The British Army are the legitimate army of a democratic state. Some of what they did was dreadful, disgusting, unacceptable - you pick the words and I will agree with them. However, they were and are ultimately subject to democratic control through a democracy and much of what they did, actually most of what they did and do, was justified as the legitimate security force of a democratic state. I won't defend Bloody Sunday or any other independently documented acts of collusion or any other act of collusion that is shown to be true, so don't try and misinterpret and twist my post. Once again, to be absolutely clear, I am not defending any actions of the British Army, just setting out the facts.

And the 'democratic control' failed the people of this island blanch.

It resulted in an inevitable conflict/war.

A government losing 'democratic control either wilfully (which I suspect they did based on their actions in every place they colonised/planted) or by incompetence or by ignoring.

Do you accept that is a greater crime? Or do you hold government to the same account as you hold rebelling or subversive forces that react...whether they be Irish, American, Indian, African etc etc etc.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the 'democratic control' failed the people of this island blanch.

It resulted in an inevitable conflict/war.

A government losing 'democratic control either wilfully (which I suspect they did based on their actions in every place they colonised/planted) or by incompetence or by ignoring.

Do you accept that is a greater crime? Or do you hold government to the same account as you hold rebelling or subversive forces that react...whether they be Irish, American, Indian, African etc etc etc.

You avoided it again Francie, you ducked and dived and avoided the question on the IRA.

I see you are now creating a hierarchy of deaths, those killed by the British Army are somehow special and victims of a greater crime. Always the victim, unable to take responsibility, that is the typical Irish "republican"

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You avoided it again Francie, you ducked and dived and avoided the question on the IRA.

There isn't a single 'question mark' in your post blanch.

I have ROUTINELY explained to you and other partitionists that I think it was all wrong, right from the start but that I apportion the greater blame to those with a responsibility and duty to create a fair and just society for ALL.

I see you are now creating a hierarchy of deaths, those killed by the British Army are somehow special and victims of a greater crime. Always the victim, unable to take responsibility, that is the typical Irish "republican"

I didn't create any hierarchy.

I asked YOU a question:

Do you hold governments to the same account as you hold rebels/subversives/freedom fighters/terrorists or however you wish to define them?

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the 'democratic control' failed the people of this island blanch.

It resulted in an inevitable conflict/war.

A government losing 'democratic control either wilfully (which I suspect they did based on their actions in every place they colonised/planted) or by incompetence or by ignoring.

Do you accept that is a greater crime? Or do you hold government to the same account as you hold rebelling or subversive forces that react...whether they be Irish, American, Indian, African etc etc etc.

Would you stop calling criminal thuggery a "war/conflict". And stop calling it "inevitable". Sick of Sinn Fein speak

blanch152

Truthvader wrote: »

Would you stop calling criminal thuggery a "war/conflict". And stop calling it "inevitable". Sick of Sinn Fein speak

It is all so reminiscent of George Orwell. Only think in certain ways, only use certain phrases, it is sickening.

Truthvader

blanch152 wrote: »

It is all so reminiscent of George Orwell. Only think in certain ways, only use certain phrases, it is sickening.

And just so thick at this stage