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The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

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    #6902
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,959 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    That kind of defence actually makes me want to get sick. Not engaging with it. If you can't see the issues then no point talking to you.

    What you mean is that all you can do is peddle the same lies about our economic performance that the non-accountant Pearse did, but can’t defend them from any scrutiny.


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    #6903
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    christy c wrote: »
    So in that case, do you not see any legitimate reason to criticise Pearse? Thought it was a fairly straightforward question.

    Criticise away christy. I'm sure if I see some illegimate criticism I'll comment.


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    #6904
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Stop the economic direction we have been taking????

    We are one of the richest countries in the world. We have the highest social welfare benefits in the EU with the lowest personal taxes thanks to the ability of successive governments to attract foreign investment. And you want to change this?


    If you go to school, then college, qualify, get a good job which gives you good wages according to SF and supporters this is wrong. You should not be earning more than someone who done nothing and left school at junior cert
    If you do have the cheek to earn more then you should just give it all to the magic oney tree in SF so they can hand out to the junior cert people.


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    #6905
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭christy c


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Criticise away christy. I'm sure if I see some illegimate criticism I'll comment.

    I wasn't asking for your permission, I was asking if you saw any legitimate criticism?


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    #6906
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    What you mean is that all you can do is peddle the same lies about our economic performance that the non-accountant Pearse did, but can’t defend them from any scrutiny.

    All you can do is say we are rich and look the other way. 'Let them eat cakeism'.

    Fight your ground with someone else. Not interested.


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    #6907
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    christy c wrote: »
    I wasn't asking for your permission, I was asking if you saw any legitimate criticism?

    I see loads of criticism of him. I responded to it earlier, tracking it back to when he was the good Shinner.


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    #6908
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭christy c


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I see loads of criticism of him. I responded to it earlier, tracking it back to when he was the good Shinner.

    Which of it is legitimate in your opinion? Dont remember you saying which.


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    #6909
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,959 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    All you can do is say we are rich and look the other way. 'Let them eat cakeism'.

    Fight your ground with someone else. Not interested.

    That’s not what I said.

    Across multiple economic measures, the poorest of the Irish are better off than 95% of the world’s population. And you and SF want to change this????


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    #6910
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    christy c wrote: »
    Which of it is legitimate in your opinion? Dont remember you saying which.

    He comes across as being angry sometimes. Maybe a bit aloof and too serious.

    Not sure what you are looking for here.


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    #6911
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,959 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    He comes across as being angry sometimes. Maybe a bit aloof and too serious.

    Not sure what you are looking for here.

    He lied about his qualifications, do you think that is a legitimate criticism?


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    #6912
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 55,767 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    That kind of defence actually makes me want to get sick. Not engaging with it. If you can't see the issues then no point talking to you.

    This is a lame response..

    What is so wrong with our economy and commerce and business, and what on earth would SF do to improve it, apart from tax the bejaysus out of industry, and running it aground!


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    #6913
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭christy c


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    He comes across as being angry sometimes. Maybe a bit aloof and too serious.

    Not sure what you are looking for here.

    Really? I am asking if you can see any criticism of him as being legitimate? As I said, I voted for FG but acknowledge criticism if their housing policy as legitimate.

    You might say, I voted for SF but see criticism of his support for Syriza as legitimate.


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    #6914
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    christy c wrote: »
    Really? I am asking if you can see any criticism of him as being legitimate? As I said, I voted for FG but acknowledge criticism if their housing policy as legitimate.

    You might say, I voted for SF but see criticism of his support for Syriza as legitimate.

    I said criticise away at his policy promises. I don't pay a pile of attention to them.

    I want a fairer society where we don't have crises that always affect the same demographic.
    I am willing to take the chance that SF will deliver some of that. I have said before my ideal government is not a coalition of two parties that are the same more or less but a coalition where one tempers the other and you end up somewhere closer to a happy medium.
    That isn't going to happen with the power swap. I realised that after being conned by Enda's new politics swindle for two governments. My fault.


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    #6915
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭christy c


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I said criticise away at his policy promises. I don't pay a pile of attention to them.

    Do you agree with those criticisms? If you are not paying attention to policy promises how did you settle on SF? Rather than PBP, or soc dems for example.


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    #6916
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    christy c wrote: »
    Do you agree with those criticisms? If you are not paying attention to policy promises how did you settle on SF? Rather than PBP, or soc dems for example.

    I settled on the credible challenger. There are no Soc Dems candidates here and the PBP candidate was well up my voting card.
    Trust me, if they don't perform they don't get my vote again.


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    #6917
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭christy c


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I settled on the credible challenger. There are no Soc Dems candidates here and the PBP candidate was well up my voting card.
    Trust me, if they don't perform they don't get my vote again.

    How did you determine they were credible? Did you see Aontu, Renua as credible?


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    #6918
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Blows my mind that someone can vote for a party and post literally thousands of times on boards defending them, yet admits to having no idea what their policies are and doesn't read their election manifestos.


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    #6919
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    christy c wrote: »
    How did you determine they were credible? Did you see Aontu, Renua as credible?

    I watch them working here..,involved in everything, support everything, first to get their hands dirty, lack of waffle, have been on too many committees and such to not see who is in it for party or themselves tbh. I satisfied myself they had lived up to the obligations in the GFA and that they were committed to it. I admired what McG and Adams delivered there...not so much delivering the agreement but delivering the movement. I believed it was intractable...I was 10 in 1970 btw, so lived as an teenager and adult through most of it.

    Said I'll take a punt on that after the New Politics swindle. Couldn't possibly be any worse for somebody who lived through all those years on this island.

    How did you rationalise the New Politics swindle christy? Why are you not voting for somebody who will change things...are you indulging a bit of 'I'm alright Jack'?
    I mean, if you are as cynical as you say you are you could at least salve your conscience, as that is all I am doing. One vote isn't going to change things much.


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    #6920
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Blows my mind that someone can vote for a party and post literally thousands of times on boards defending them, yet admits to having no idea what their policies are and doesn't read their election manifestos.


    Plus also knows the entire history of the party, have an intimate knowledge of every TD and seemingly every political discussion they have been involved in.
    I think we can all see some cracks in this "story"
    I have a family member who has voted FG all his life, he would be able to name his local TD, Leo and maybe a few others but after that not a clue.


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    #6921
    Hubertj
    Registered Users Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Hubertj


    What will Brian Stanley do? Will he resign or be removed as PAC chairman? Why did he delete his social media accounts? Is there other stuff he posted?


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    #6922
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    Hubertj wrote: »
    What will Brian Stanley do? Will he resign or be removed as PAC chairman? Why did he delete his social media accounts? Is there other stuff he posted?


    Other stuff and it was been brought up so cut the social media.

    I doubt he will resign. SF are hiding him for a week and will be desperate to try change the story so they can sneak him back in. Expect them to go on a full on campaign this week, maybe another no confidence vote:P


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    #6923
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭christy c


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I watch them working here..,involved in everything, support everything, first to get their hands dirty, lack of waffle, have been on too many committees and such to not see who is in it for party or themselves tbh. I satisfied myself they had lived up to the obligations in the GFA and that they were committed to it. I admired what McG and Adams delivered there...not so much delivering the agreement but delivering the movement. I believed it was intractable...I was 10 in 1970 btw, so lived as an teenager and adult through most of it.

    Said I'll take a punt on that after the New Politics swindle. Couldn't possibly be any worse for somebody who lived through all those years on this island.

    How did you rationalise the New Politics swindle christy? Why are you not voting for somebody who will change things...are you indulging a bit of 'I'm alright Jack'?
    I mean, if you are as cynical as you say you are you could at least salve your conscience, as that is all I am doing. One vote isn't going to change things much.

    Fair enough reasons, other than the lack of waffle which is laughable. However how you could vote for someone without paying attention to their policies is beyond me.

    As regards how do I justify my voting? Best of a bad lot, told you already that I find Irish politics depressing. Id love change, but i would like change for the better, not rubbish like "your pension at 65". Voting for parties like SF who promise absolutely mental economic policies would do nothing for my conscience. As someone said, you vote for FF and FG in the hope they do what they promise, you vote for SF in the hope they won't do what they promise.


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    #6924
    aido79
    Registered Users Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭aido79


    Ireland2020 wrote: »
    The largest party on the island.

    One of the big 2 parties with FF in the 26 now since the election.

    SF don't need much luck, alls going good

    SF have the same amount of seats Labour had in 2011. How did that work out for them?
    Just remember things can go either way in politics very quickly sometimes.


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    #6925
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    christy c wrote: »
    Fair enough reasons, other than the lack of waffle which is laughable. However how you could vote for someone without paying attention to their policies is beyond me.

    As regards how do I justify my voting? Best of a bad lot, told you already that I find Irish politics depressing. Id love change, but i would like change for the better, not rubbish like "your pension at 65". Voting for parties like SF who promise absolutely mental economic policies would do nothing for my conscience. As someone said, you vote for FF and FG in the hope they do what they promise, you vote for SF in the hope they won't do what they promise.

    You find politics depressing, would like change, but keep voting for the same thing.
    Ok, it's not how roll. I think the owned vote is part of the problem that developed in Irish politics too. It's how the two parties that are essentially the same to relax in the comfort that they are swapping it between themselves. Not healthy.


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    #6926
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    I watch them working here..,involved in everything, support everything, first to get their hands dirty, lack of waffle, have been on too many committees and such to not see who is in it for party or themselves tbh. I satisfied myself they had lived up to the obligations in the GFA and that they were committed to it. I admired what McG and Adams delivered there...not so much delivering the agreement but delivering the movement. I believed it was intractable...I was 10 in 1970 btw, so lived as an teenager and adult through most of it.

    Said I'll take a punt on that after the New Politics swindle. Couldn't possibly be any worse for somebody who lived through all those years on this island.

    How did you rationalise the New Politics swindle christy? Why are you not voting for somebody who will change things...are you indulging a bit of 'I'm alright Jack'?
    I mean, if you are as cynical as you say you are you could at least salve your conscience, as that is all I am doing. One vote isn't going to change things much.


    Which SF TD are you talking about out of interest?


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    #6927
    christy c
    Registered Users Posts: 2,196 ✭✭✭christy c


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    You find politics depressing, would like change, but keep voting for the same thing.
    Ok, it's not how roll. I think the owned vote is part of the problem that developed in Irish politics too. It's how the two parties that are essentially the same to relax in the comfort that they are swapping it between themselves. Not healthy.

    I would like change for the better, so I won't be voting for parties such as SF who promise to make things worse IMO. Therefore I will keep voting for what I deem the best (of a bad lot) until I see better. Do you understand, even though you don't agree with it?


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    #6928
    Bonniedog
    Registered Users Posts: 6,665 ✭✭✭Bonniedog


    Solutionking wrote: »
    Other stuff and it was been brought up so cut the social media.

    I doubt he will resign. SF are hiding him for a week and will be desperate to try change the story so they can sneak him back in. Expect them to go on a full on campaign this week, maybe another no confidence vote:P

    Not so sure.

    Ó Bróin sounded on TWIP that he would be happier if Stanley did not make any statement. Which to me implies that perhaps he might not "go gently unto that dark night."

    He's already apologised for the IRA tweet. Now they want him to resign from PAC over a silly - but hardly a hate - tweet.

    Wouldnt' be at all surprised if the boys in the backroom want him to step down to save their credability among the snowflakes, quite a number of whom have already resigned from SF over this.


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    #6929
    Solutionking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 678 ✭✭✭Solutionking


    Bonniedog wrote: »
    Not so sure.

    Ó Bróin sounded on TWIP that he would be happier if Stanley did not make any statement. Which to me implies that perhaps he might not "go gently unto that dark night."

    He's already apologised for the IRA tweet. Now they want him to resign from PAC over a silly - but hardly a hate - tweet.

    Wouldnt' be at all surprised if the boys in the backroom want him to step down to save their credability among the snowflakes, quite a number of whom have already resigned from SF over this.


    The bigger issue they have is the bullying of the lady who left. Plus sending someone over to her home, who then decided to abuse her online. Plus the other members of SF who abused her online
    SF hope was that some of the other parties would take the news over but they have managed themselves.


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    #6930
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Solutionking wrote: »
    Which SF TD are you talking about out of interest?

    Not so much a TD as the party itself and local reps. You only see government TD's when there is money to give away or good news to break and when there are votes needed. Found it much easier to vote for Matt Carty than O'Caolain, who never got my vote.
    I voted SF 1 & 2 here last time out. Would do it again the morning having seen the change it has caused already. FF and FG practically and effectively merged together. Result!


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    #6931
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,984 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    christy c wrote: »
    I would like change for the better, so I won't be voting for parties such as SF who promise to make things worse IMO. Therefore I will keep voting for what I deem the best (of a bad lot) until I see better. Do you understand, even though you don't agree with it?

    Ever hear of doing something tough to get someone to up their game? Instead of the negative reaction to being challenged and the dirty politics, that's all these lads have to do. Be better.
    I get your attitude and you are entitled to it. Just wondering about the rationale.


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