The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

Solutionking

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think anyone who knows the career of the likes of Thomas MacGiolla would say there was a SF party contesting election in the early 1960's and that SF was in existence through the 60's and split almost exactly in two at the end of the 60's.
The modern iteration was not 'founded in 1970' which is a bit of a bitchy read of history.
The iteration led by Adams etc was the one that held true to the principle of abstentionism and can lay claim to be closer to the original SF than any other splitter and deserved to retain the name for that reason. That's is, after all the way, it normally works.

Too many desperate people who want to separate SF from it's roots and portray it as the creation of O'Bradaigh, big bad Gurry and the Nordies.

I think you will find it is the other way around, Sinn Fein have been desperate to attach themselves to the Original Sinn Fein. Now people have started to call them out on it
The current version of Sinn Fein is actually called Provisional Sinn Fein like the Provisional IRA. But they dropped it.
"big bad Gurry" as you call him had no problem protecting child molesters. Before we even start on the rest. But you continue to support him.

FrancieBrady

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

why would SF ape what FG do?

They don't. FG are out on their own on this.

They have emasculated FF and Michael Martin. The political equivalent of step aside, 'hold my beer' and have gone on a full throated Trumpian crusade against a single party. The party they fear most and who is inside the head of every FG supporter on here.

What they don't realise, (shown by the fact that the parodies were more popular than the original Tik Tok video Varadkar did) is that that audience is more savvy and clued in than their arrogance gives it credit for.

FrancieBrady

Solutionking wrote: »

I think you will find it is the other way around, Sinn Fein have been desperate to attach themselves to the Original Sinn Fein. Now people have started to call them out on it
The current version of Sinn Fein is actually called Provisional Sinn Fein like the Provisional IRA. But they dropped it.
"big bad Gurry" as you call him had no problem protecting child molesters. Before we even start on the rest. But you continue to support him.

It is called 'Provisional' Sinn Fein for a reason...look it up before pretending to know what you are talking about.

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think anyone who knows the career of the likes of Thomas MacGiolla would say there was a SF party contesting election in the early 1960's and that SF was in existence through the 60's and split almost exactly in two at the end of the 60's.
The modern iteration was not 'founded in 1970' which is a bit of a bitchy read of history.
The iteration led by Adams etc was the one that held true to the principle of abstentionism and can lay claim to be closer to the original SF than any other splitter and deserved to retain the name for that reason. That's is, after all the way, it normally works.

Too many desperate people who want to separate SF from it's roots and portray it as the creation of O'Bradaigh, big bad Gurry and the Nordies.

I was only repeating what Ferriter said before he quickly moved on to ff's history
Good timeline in the below link

https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2020/1125/1180350-sinn-fein-history-ireland/

marieholmfan

IMO no party should be allowed to use Green, White and Orange in any literature or posters and no party should be allowed to call itself Sinn Fein.

I wouldn't allow Green and White in combination either.

FrancieBrady

marieholmfan wrote: »

IMO no party should be allowed to use Green, White and Orange in any literature or posters and no party should be allowed to call itself Sinn Fein.

I wouldn't allow Green and White in combination either.

IAMAMORON

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is called 'Provisional' Sinn Fein for a reason...look it up before pretending to know what you are talking about.

For a man that denies he is a member you seem to know an awful lot about them?

FrancieBrady

IAMAMORON wrote: »

For a man that denies he is a member you seem to know an awful lot about them?

Basic history. Just looked, the reason the 'Provisional' tag stuck is on the Wicki page. Not exactly secret info given at your initiation into dastardly SF.

blanch152

PearseCork92 wrote: »

What are you upset about? Fine Gael's anti water-flouridation platform at general election time or the vaccine skepticism in senior echelons of the party?

I'm just a poster on the internet delivering some news to you. No need to get your panties in a bunch.

This is a really strange one. You have referenced Fine Gael's election manifesto from 2001. There was no election in 2001. Fine Gael may have produced policy discussion papers in between an election, but there is no sign of an anti-flouridation policy in their 2002 election manifesto.

http://michaelpidgeon.com/manifestos/docs/fg/Fine%20Gael%20GE%202002.pdf

You might want to correct the misinformation you are peddling.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They don't. FG are out on their own on this.

They have emasculated FF and Michael Martin. The political equivalent of step aside, 'hold my beer' and have gone on a full throated Trumpian crusade against a single party. The party they fear most and who is inside the head of every FG supporter on here.

What they don't realise, (shown by the fact that the parodies were more popular than the original Tik Tok video Varadkar did) is that that audience is more savvy and clued in than their arrogance gives it credit for.

You are missing the point completely.

Fine Gael know they will never get the votes of the lifelong social welfare anti-vaxxer hard republicans that are the core vote of Sinn Fein. The message from FG will never get through to them. However, FG know that there is a vast community of ordinary decent people who won't like what they see when the underbelly of Sinn Fein is exposed, hence FG's really strong polling in the last few opinion polls. Sure, the constant focus may drive some mild republicans from Fianna Fail to Sinn Fein in the short term, but that won't bother FG either.

Fine Gael don't worry too much about the young vote either. Most of them grow up and get jobs and forget about parties like Sinn Fein.

McMurphy

IAMAMORON wrote: »

For a man that denies he is a member you seem to know an awful lot about them?

I know an awful lot about Metallica, I'm not a member of the band. I know an awful lot about Glasgow Rangers, I'm not a member of the club, I know an awful lot about Volvo's, I'm not a Volvo employee......

Really?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

This is a really strange one. You have referenced Fine Gael's election manifesto from 2001. There was no election in 2001. Fine Gael may have produced policy discussion papers in between an election, but there is no sign of an anti-flouridation policy in their 2002 election manifesto.

http://michaelpidgeon.com/manifestos/docs/fg/Fine%20Gael%20GE%202002.pdf

You might want to correct the misinformation you are peddling.



You are missing the point completely.

Fine Gael know they will never get the votes of the lifelong social welfare anti-vaxxer hard republicans that are the core vote of Sinn Fein. The message from FG will never get through to them. However, FG know that there is a vast community of ordinary decent people who won't like what they see when the underbelly of Sinn Fein is exposed, hence FG's really strong polling in the last few opinion polls. Sure, the constant focus may drive some mild republicans from Fianna Fail to Sinn Fein in the short term, but that won't bother FG either.

Fine Gael don't worry too much about the young vote either. Most of them grow up and get jobs and forget about parties like Sinn Fein.

FG's strong showing is because of how they performed in the 'interim' government on Covid...with the full backing of every political party BTW.

You fall back on this assessment of their polling when it suits you. Now it suits you to credit it to something else, completely ignoring the FACT that FG's negative campaign lost them votes in the actual election while SF gained them.

You just pivoted shamelessly there to get your buzzwords out. :D

RandomViewer

blanch152 wrote: »

This is a really strange one. You have referenced Fine Gael's election manifesto from 2001. There was no election in 2001. Fine Gael may have produced policy discussion papers in between an election, but there is no sign of an anti-flouridation policy in their 2002 election manifesto.

http://michaelpidgeon.com/manifestos/docs/fg/Fine%20Gael%20GE%202002.pdf

You might want to correct the misinformation you are peddling.



You are missing the point completely.

Fine Gael know they will never get the votes of the lifelong social welfare anti-vaxxer hard republicans that are the core vote of Sinn Fein. The message from FG will never get through to them. However, FG know that there is a vast community of ordinary decent people who won't like what they see when the underbelly of Sinn Fein is exposed, hence FG's really strong polling in the last few opinion polls. Sure, the constant focus may drive some mild republicans from Fianna Fail to Sinn Fein in the short term, but that won't bother FG either.

Fine Gael don't worry too much about the young vote either. Most of them grow up and get jobs and forget about parties like Sinn Fein.

Noonan depended on Limericks sink estates to get elected, SF didn't buy votes with council houses up and down the country, few near here that are actually holiday homes supplied by former FG TD, Your class warfare doesn't exist outside the nylon trouser wearing Indo readers in south Dublin, You've sold out the workers, the small business owners, the farmers ,the fisheries, Mean Girls is a movie not a manifesto

marieholmfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No single political party in the republic has more right to call itself Sinn Fein than any other. Therefore no one should be allowed to use it.

Also there are those who in their dislike of modern Sinn Fein drift into treason. Not permitting the use of the name would ameliorate this.


What's hard to understand about that?

FrancieBrady

marieholmfan wrote: »

No single political party in the republic has more right to call itself Sinn Fein than any other. Therefore no one should be allowed to use it.

Also there are those who in their dislike of modern Sinn Fein drift into treason. Not permitting the use of the name would ameliorate this.


What's hard to understand about that?

Still don't get what you are trying to achieve here?

What's with colours thing too?

Bobeagleburger

Ireland2020 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/MaryLouMcDonald/status/1336218281913573377?s=19

The Anti Vaccine party have spoken

Good to see.

Hopefully it filters down to a good chunk of the antivax 45%.

IAMAMORON

McMurphy wrote: »

I know an awful lot about Metallica, I'm not a member of the band. I know an awful lot about Glasgow Rangers, I'm not a member of the club, I know an awful lot about Volvo's, I'm not a Volvo employee......

Really?

Mmmmm

regrettably Metallica haven't gone away either, you know?

( or Rangers )

Ireland2020

6 wrote: »

Good to see.

Hopefully it filters down to a good chunk of the antivax 45%.

And the 20% odd FF and FG supporters who don't want take vaccine either at the minute

Bobeagleburger

Ireland2020 wrote: »

And the 20% odd FF and FG supporters who don't want take vaccine either at the minute

Absolutely.

SF supporters at 45% stands out you'll have to admit. There can't be that much of an education gap in the supporters of parties surely.

FrancieBrady

6 wrote: »

Good to see.

Hopefully it filters down to a good chunk of the antivax 45%.

The poll asked would you take the current vaccine. A vaccine that has arrived at point of use faster than any vaccine ever. Is being nervous about taking it an 'anti-vaxx stance?

I think we would need more detailed polling to decide that.

I prefer to see leadership on this rather than the usual demeaning and derision which is counterproductive.

Allay the fears, make sure the info is out there and continue to convince by action is what should be happening. Not the rush to political gain that only entrenches people.

Ireland2020

6 wrote: »

Absolutely.

SF supporters at 45% standouts you'll have to admit. There can't be that much of an education gap in the supporters of parties surely.

The youth are the people who are less likely to take the vaccine.

The youth see Sinn Féin as the best political party to vote for.

Pretty obvious SF will have a lower number of people taking the vaccine

Bobeagleburger

Ireland2020 wrote: »

The youth are the people who are less likely to take the vaccine.

The youth see Sinn Féin as the best political party to vote for.

Pretty obvious SF will have a lower number of people taking the vaccine

Is there a breakdown of age demographic for that poll?

blanch152

6 wrote: »

Absolutely.

SF supporters at 45% stands out you'll have to admit. There can't be that much of an education gap in the supporters of parties surely.

There is that much of an education gap. It shows up under other indicaters in polling data.

smurgen

blanch152 wrote: »

There is that much of an education gap. It shows up under other indicaters in polling data.

I'd say making inferences out of scant support data is more likely to indicate an education gap than this.

NovemberWren

markodaly wrote: »

Exhibit A:

Jean McConville, a mother of 10 was taken from her home and shot dead by the IRA on the orders of SF royalty, Gerry Adams.

that's weird, that came to mind just a few days ago! i was kinda' wondering when was the soldier shot, and then when later j.McC, died. tbh i don't even know what year it was!
must google.

NovemberWren

Solutionking wrote: »

Yes it was James Bond stuff. Very alarming. Even Q was involved.

no. seriously. it is shockingly alarming. Fianna Fail big investors who are invested in the ownership of Shopping Centres - actually personalise and video the personal emissions [excreta] of the female customers.

Ireland2020

blanch152 wrote: »

There is that much of an education gap. It shows up under other indicaters in polling data.

Well our current Minister for Further Education never even made it through college, so education is not needed in Ireland really

Nobotty

Ireland2020 wrote: »

Well our current Minister for Further Education never even made it through college, so education is not needed in Ireland really

To be fair ,I think you should attack the policies and not the man
He did not fail any exams,he voluntarily left (to pursue politics)
That is not the same as 'never even made it through college '
That being said,you are right,you don't need higher level degrees or even a leaving cert
Ambition and brains is a lot of it
There are people with almighty levels of qualifications who have neither

FrancieBrady

Never knew it had a name, but it is going to be talked about on the radio shortly It's not all about 'anti-vaxx' but 'vaccine Hesitancy' and how to overcome it. Loads of political parties, celebs etc lined up to tackle it.

So I would imagine quite a few of those in the poll are in the 'vaccine hesitency' bracket rather than being overtly anti-vaxx.

The pile-on to demean, demonise and deride these people is coming from the 'we are chosen people' complex in FG mainly and to a lesser degree other parties.

Leadership is about leading.

Ireland2020

Nobotty wrote: »

To be fair ,I think you should attack the policies and not the man
He did not fail any exams,he voluntarily left (to pursue politics)
That is not the same as 'never even made it through college '
That being said,you are right,you don't need higher level degrees or even a leaving cert
Ambition and brains is a lot of it
There are people with almighty levels of qualifications who have neither

His policies and the way he acted over the last few years is nothing short of disgraceful

- Nonsense about 18 other covids.
- Threatening Nurses on strike that they will be fined.
- Hospital trolley crises that he looked over and let get worse
- Near on one million people on waiting lists to see consultants
- Cervical smear scandals
- Children's Hospital overspend
- One nurse to 11 patients is not good enough or safe.

Theres loads more.

Nobotty

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Never knew it had a name, but it is going to be talked about on the radio shortly It's not all about 'anti-vaxx' but 'vaccine Hesitancy' and how to overcome it. Loads of political parties, celebs etc lined up to tackle it.

So I would imagine quite a few of those in the poll are in the 'vaccine hesitency' bracket rather than being overtly anti-vaxx.

The pile-on to demean, demonise and deride these people is coming from the 'we are chosen people' complex in FG mainly and to a lesser degree other parties.

Leadership is about leading.

Yeah I'd agree with that
Quite a lot of I'll wait and see how it goes
Me,I'll take it at the first available opportunity
The needle does look a little longer than usual though :eek: