The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

When you're honest about your opinion you don't need to play strategic Blanch.
I stand by the idea that this is simply more bollo to distract and we've more important issues to attend to than a SF politician retweeting 9/11 conspiracy etc. etc. It's mundane.

Like this kind of jaded quip:



FG do plenty of damage and have lowered the bar of political discourse but the damage to society and the cronyism is more important isn't it?

Have to say now that the current mess is all down to Sinn Fein making a thing about a WhatsApp conversation. After that, public Twitter and Facebook posts are fair game. Looks like they brought the house down on top of themselves.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Have to say now that the current mess is all down to Sinn Fein making a thing about a WhatsApp conversation. After that, public Twitter and Facebook posts are fair game. Looks like they brought the house down on top of themselves.

Certainly. However a shinner making an arse of himself and a Taoiseach leaking a confidential document to a pal for votes is not comparable.
It's desperate efforts from FG to make Trump of Irish politics.

Discussing it on RTE radio right now. The consensus is it's getting silly and distracting from real issues....of course the FG'er is running conspiracy theories about randos on twitter being closet shinners. The irony from a party led by a man advocates setting up anonymous accounts. She's getting hammered for FG attack adds. Hypocrisy...well I never :rolleyes:

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Yes, I am sure he can expect more of the dog-whistle homophobia and racism that is often directed at him, including from these boards.

Well take a look at the reaction he is getting and it isn't from shinners mostly. His hypocrisy...or the hypocrisy of celebrating the violence of some and condemning others is being highlighted.

No comments on his sexuality/racen(you seem, as usual more hung up about that than anyone else) that I can see. Maybe that was the fire he hoped to draw...another backfire.

touts

For Forks Sake wrote: »

Where do they find these morons, let alone get them elected?

https://www.independent.ie/news/sinn-fein-td-admits-calling-to-party-members-homes-when-he-disagreed-with-social-media-posts-39845642.html

Browne was always an accident waiting to happen once he was elected. That's why Sinn Fein were so desperate to have the election postponed in Tipperary and have the nominations reopened after that independent candidate died. When they realised they were picking up a seat in Tipperary they wanted him no where near the Dail. They are lucky they got this far before all the 911 conspiracy stuff etc and his, shall we say, "door step canvassing" of local party members who may not have been on his side in the recent Sinn Fein Tiobraid Árann Civil War came out.

Wait till the Sunday papers start digging into that little civil war and purge of long standing local party members that happened. By all accounts a few ex members have some interesting stories to tell.

Sinn Fein HQ be imposing the strongest possible running mate with him next time.

blanch152

touts wrote: »

Browne was always an accident waiting to happen once he was elected. That's why Sinn Fein were so desperate to have the election postponed in Tipperary and have the nominations reopened after that independent candidate died. When they realised they were picking up a seat in Tipperary they wanted him no where near the Dail. They are lucky they got this far before all the 911 conspiracy stuff etc and his, shall we say, "door step canvassing" of local party members who may not have been on his side in the recent Sinn Fein Tiobraid Árann Civil War came out.

Wait till the Sunday papers start digging into that little civil war and purge of long standing local party members that happened. By all accounts a few ex members have some interesting stories to tell.

Sinn Fein HQ be imposing the strongest possible running mate with him next time.

They are certainly collecting a group of TDs who are unsuitable for re-election. Violet-Anne, Reada, David Cullinane, Browne etc.

Brendan Bendar

A lot of lads tweeting stuff they don’t actually believe, it would appear.

Makes one wonder do they feel the same about their ‘policies’.

Would not surprise me.

Complete shambles from the ‘leadership’ who ever they are.

padd b1975

Bowie wrote: »

Certainly. However a shinner making an arse of himself and a Taoiseach leaking a confidential document to a pal for votes is not comparable.
It's desperate efforts from FG to make Trump of Irish politics.

Discussing it on RTE radio right now. The consensus is it's getting silly and distracting from real issues....of course the FG'er is running conspiracy theories about randos on twitter being closet shinners. The irony from a party led by a man advocates setting up anonymous accounts. She's getting hammered for FG attack adds. Hypocrisy...well I never :rolleyes:

I presume you mean Late Debate?

If so, it appears you have missed the shambolic performance of Lynn Boylan.

Her contribution on the topic basically amounted to "yeah?, well, you know, thats just, like uh, your opinion man...".

Brendan Bendar

padd b1975 wrote: »

I presume you mean Late Debate?

If so, it appears you have missed the shambolic performance of Lynn Boylan.

Her contribution on the topic basically amounted to "yeah?, well, you know, thats just, like uh, your opinion man...".

Eoineen keeping her profile as high as he can while he studies in Trinners on what might be called ‘company time’.

Expect to hear a lot more of the bould Lynn after the Xmas.:cool:

Wardy16 will take up the slack as well...... our man in West Dubbilin

jh79

Nobotty wrote: »

Jesus

https://twitter.com/BarryLenihan/status/1337102486436519937?s=19

His support for Gemma O'D makes more sense now. Her awful views on the LGBQT were well known a the time too.

Bonniedog

jh79 wrote: »

His support for Gemma O'D makes more sense now. Her awful views on the LGBQT were well known a the time too.

Whatever you think of Gemma Doherty, i don't think she ever claimed that "the Jews" were responsible for 9/11.

Anti Semitism disguised as "Anti-Zionism" is rife among the dimmer Shinners.

Of course the woke who are pursuing them on the batty boys won't be noticing that because it is common on the ultra left.

touts

Bonniedog wrote: »

Whatever you think of Gemma Doherty, i don't think she ever claimed that "the Jews" were responsible for 9/11.

Anti Semitism disguised as "Anti-Zionism" is rife among the dimmer Shinners.

Of course the woke who are pursuing them on the batty boys won't be noticing that because it is common on the ultra left.

It's not just the dimmer members. Remember it's still within living memory when Sinn Fein leadership were cozying yo to Hitler and the Nazi party. They only switched over to Stalinism when it became apparent that they had backed the wrong ideological horse.

grayzer75

touts wrote: »

It's not just the dimmer members. Remember it's still within living memory when Sinn Fein leadership were cozying yo to Hitler and the Nazi party. They only switched over to Stalinism when it became apparent that they had backed the wrong ideological horse.

Haha I think you'll find it was Leo's crowd who went that route in the past.

Brendan Bendar

touts wrote: »

It's not just the dimmer members. Remember it's still within living memory when Sinn Fein leadership were cozying yo to Hitler and the Nazi party. They only switched over to Stalinism when it became apparent that they had backed the wrong ideological horse.

Backed the wrong party in Greece too....

And that’s exactly what they would do here if they got power, promise the divil an all, but when they realised that Fritz in Germany wasn’t going to bail them out, and horror of horrors, and they would have to do it THEMSELVES,it’s up on the motorbike and off into the sunset.

Make no mistake about that .........

touts

grayzer75 wrote: »

Haha I think you'll find it was Leo's crowd who went that route in the past.

Well you'd want to look up your former Commander Sean Russell. He spent time living in Nazi Germany and played an active part in elements of the Nazi planning of the invasion of Britain and he put the full resources of Sinn Fein and the IRA at the disposal of Hitler for an invasion of the the UK and/or the Republic. Doubtless that wouldn't have ended too well for the Jewish populations in either country so it is hardly surprising when some current Sinn Fein TDs openly express antisemitic opinions.

But you are right. One of Fine Gael's founding organisations was indeed a facist party and I don't think Fine Gael have ever properly addressed and resolved that. But that is probably a topic for another thread if one of you in Sinn Fein HQ would like to set it up. It is interesting to note however that Ireland is probably the only country in the world who currently have the leading government party and the leading opposition party who were both facist Nazi style organisations in the 1930s and 40s.

McMurphy

touts wrote: »

Well you'd want to look up your former Commander Sean Russell. He spent time living in Nazi Germany and played an active part in elements of the Nazi planning of the invasion of Britain and he put the full resources of Sinn Fein and the IRA at the disposal of Hitler for an invasion of the the UK and/or the Republic. Doubtless that wouldn't have ended too well for the Jewish populations in either country so it is hardly surprising when some current Sinn Fein TDs openly express antisemitic opinions.

But you are right. One of Fine Gael's founding organisations was indeed a facist party and I don't think Fine Gael have ever properly addressed and resolved that. But that is probably a topic for another thread if one of you in Sinn Fein HQ would like to set it up. It is interesting to note however that Ireland is probably the only country in the world who currently have the leading government party and the leading opposition party who were both facist Nazi style organisations in the 1930s and 40s.

I don't know how they resolve it, history is history, what's done is done, however you will note that particular chapter, and including O'Duffy has been completely whitewashed out of their own party history on their website.

grayzer75

touts wrote: »

Well you'd want to look up your former Commander Sean Russell. He spent time living in Nazi Germany and played an active part in elements of the Nazi planning of the invasion of Britain and he put the full resources of Sinn Fein and the IRA at the disposal of Hitler for an invasion of the the UK and/or the Republic. Doubtless that wouldn't have ended too well for the Jewish populations in either country so it is hardly surprising when some current Sinn Fein TDs openly express antisemitic opinions.

But you are right. One of Fine Gael's founding organisations was indeed a facist party and I don't think Fine Gael have ever properly addressed and resolved that. But that is probably a topic for another thread if one of you in Sinn Fein HQ would like to set it up. It is interesting to note however that Ireland is probably the only country in the world who currently have the leading government party and the leading opposition party who were both facist Nazi style organisations in the 1930s and 40s.

Ah but we've been told that was different SF and IRA then - the good ones as FFG would describe them so maybe Blanch and the rest of his mates can tell us more about their fascist / nazi roots and the joy they got when their lads went to fight for Franco in Spain as well....

touts

grayzer75 wrote: »

Ah but we've been told that was different SF and IRA then - the good ones as FFG would describe them so maybe Blanch and the rest of his mates can tell us more about their fascist / nazi roots and the joy they got when their lads went to fight for Franco in Spain as well....

That's the problem Sinn Fein have. They claim to have some sort of unbroken line of succession from Sinn Fein in 1916 except for the 1930s and 40s when they were working with the Nazi Party and that was a different party.

rdwight

touts wrote: »

That's the problem Sinn Fein have. They claim to have some sort of unbroken line of succession from Sinn Fein in 1916 except for the 1930s and 40s when they were working with the Nazi Party and that was a different party.

As far as I know it's worse than that: they don't even disown their period of collaboration with the Nazis.

rdwight

grayzer75 wrote: »

Ah but we've been told that was different SF and IRA then - the good ones as FFG would describe them so maybe Blanch and the rest of his mates can tell us more about their fascist / nazi roots and the joy they got when their lads went to fight for Franco in Spain as well....

Uncomfortable as O'Duffy's activities might be for FG, at least he was eventually forced out of the party. Sean Russell, on the other hand, having made his way to wartime Germany with the intention of collaborating with the Nazis, died an IRA hero (in a Nazi submarine), and now has a statute in Fairview to which SF leaders pay regular obeisances.

https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/27898


"Between the outbreak of war and the death of Sean Russell more than 300 IRA bombs have exploded in Britain and Northern Ireland. Six British civilians are killed in Coventry, a city the Luftwaffe pulverised. The IRA is in league with one of the vilest regimes in human history. England's difficulty may be Ireland's opportunity but their Nazi friends intend to enslave the whole of Europe. And in less than two years they draw up a death list of every Jewish man, woman and child, including 3,700 Irish Jews - an unprecedented inventory of evil"

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/sep/07/bloodysunday.northernireland


.

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

Uncomfortable as O'Duffy's activities might be for FG, at least he was eventually forced out of the party. Sean Russell, on the other hand, having made his way to wartime Germany with the intention of collaborating with the Nazis, died an IRA hero (in a Nazi submarine), and now has a statute in Fairview to which SF leaders pay regular obeisances.

https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/27898


"Between the outbreak of war and the death of Sean Russell more than 300 IRA bombs have exploded in Britain and Northern Ireland. Six British civilians are killed in Coventry, a city the Luftwaffe pulverised. The IRA is in league with one of the vilest regimes in human history. England's difficulty may be Ireland's opportunity but their Nazi friends intend to enslave the whole of Europe. And in less than two years they draw up a death list of every Jewish man, woman and child, including 3,700 Irish Jews - an unprecedented inventory of evil"

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/sep/07/bloodysunday.northernireland


.

And no historian has unearthed a single word uttered by Russell that would see him as a supporter of the Nazi project.

Smoke and mirror stuff with a fair drop of moral hindsight thrown in.

There are more higher placed people who had questionable love-in's with the Nazi's than an opportunistic 'RA man.

James Brown

touts wrote: »

That's the problem Sinn Fein have. They claim to have some sort of unbroken line of succession from Sinn Fein in 1916 except for the 1930s and 40s when they were working with the Nazi Party and that was a different party.

As were FF and FG practically were a party off shoot.

James Brown

rdwight wrote: »

Uncomfortable as O'Duffy's activities might be for FG, at least he was eventually forced out of the party. Sean Russell, on the other hand, having made his way to wartime Germany with the intention of collaborating with the Nazis, died an IRA hero (in a Nazi submarine), and now has a statute in Fairview to which SF leaders pay regular obeisances.

https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/27898


"Between the outbreak of war and the death of Sean Russell more than 300 IRA bombs have exploded in Britain and Northern Ireland. Six British civilians are killed in Coventry, a city the Luftwaffe pulverised. The IRA is in league with one of the vilest regimes in human history. England's difficulty may be Ireland's opportunity but their Nazi friends intend to enslave the whole of Europe. And in less than two years they draw up a death list of every Jewish man, woman and child, including 3,700 Irish Jews - an unprecedented inventory of evil"

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/sep/07/bloodysunday.northernireland


.

The anti-Semitism was accepted from Oliver J. Flanagan up to the late 1980's. Was he alone in his views?

rdwight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And no historian has unearthed a single word uttered by Russell that would see him as a supporter of the Nazi project.

Smoke and mirror stuff with a fair drop of moral hindsight thrown in.

There are more higher placed people who had questionable love-in's with the Nazi's than an opportunistic 'RA man.

Are you really sure you want to go down the road of defending Sean Russell?

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

Are you really sure you want to go down the road of defending Sean Russell?

When you unearth something that shows Russell was anything other than an opportunist, we can debate it.
Russell first made contact with the Germans in the 30's when British royalty were schmoozing with them and the British government were appeasing them.

He might have been many things but he didn't 'collaborate' with what the Nazis were doing, he did try to use them for the IRA's benefit, which was stupid but not much more than that.

blanch152

rdwight wrote: »

Uncomfortable as O'Duffy's activities might be for FG, at least he was eventually forced out of the party. Sean Russell, on the other hand, having made his way to wartime Germany with the intention of collaborating with the Nazis, died an IRA hero (in a Nazi submarine), and now has a statute in Fairview to which SF leaders pay regular obeisances.

https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/27898


"Between the outbreak of war and the death of Sean Russell more than 300 IRA bombs have exploded in Britain and Northern Ireland. Six British civilians are killed in Coventry, a city the Luftwaffe pulverised. The IRA is in league with one of the vilest regimes in human history. England's difficulty may be Ireland's opportunity but their Nazi friends intend to enslave the whole of Europe. And in less than two years they draw up a death list of every Jewish man, woman and child, including 3,700 Irish Jews - an unprecedented inventory of evil"

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2003/sep/07/bloodysunday.northernireland


.

Pretty much a fair summary of the Sinn Fein support for the Nazis.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And no historian has unearthed a single word uttered by Russell that would see him as a supporter of the Nazi project.

Smoke and mirror stuff with a fair drop of moral hindsight thrown in.

There are more higher placed people who had questionable love-in's with the Nazi's than an opportunistic 'RA man.

Bowie wrote: »

As were FF and FG practically were a party off shoot.

Unfortunaltely, there continues to be a coterie of SF sympathisers (what do you call those who support SF at every turn but denying being a meber or a voter) who still laud the likes of Sean Russell.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When you unearth something that shows Russell was anything other than an opportunist, we can debate it.
Russell first made contact with the Germans in the 30's when British royalty were schmoozing with them and the British government were appeasing them.

He might have been many things but he didn't 'collaborate' with what the Nazis were doing, he did try to use them for the IRA's benefit, which was stupid but not much more than that.

Are you saying that Sinn Fein blow in the wind and are nothing other than opportunsts? Happy enough to accept that, I am.

rdwight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

When you unearth something that shows Russell was anything other than an opportunist, we can debate it.
Russell first made contact with the Germans in the 30's when British royalty were schmoozing with them and the British government were appeasing them.

He might have been many things but he didn't 'collaborate' with what the Nazis were doing, he did try to use them for the IRA's benefit, which was stupid but not much more than that.

To absolve Russell as a mere "opportunist" is meaningless. It ignores the morality of the activities arising out of the opportunity.
You could just as well describe the Ukrainian nationalists who took advantage of the German occupation to massacre Poles in Volhynia as "opportunists".

The war created the opportunity for the IRA to collaborate with the Nazis in attacking Britain. They were happy to do so and to
ignore what the Nazis stood for and the outrages they had already committed.

Russell may have been devoid of political ideology but his actions were intended to further the Nazi project. His actions were constistent
with the long-held SF/IRA delusion that the quest for a United Ireland trumps all other political, ideological and moral priorities.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Pretty much a fair summary of the Sinn Fein support for the Nazis.






Unfortunaltely, there continues to be a coterie of SF sympathisers (what do you call those who support SF at every turn but denying being a meber or a voter) who still laud the likes of Sean Russell.

Why are you quoting me? I was commenting on how FF/FG were cosy with the Nazis. It's well known.
If people used PBP in the same manner some use SF, I'd be calling out any nonsense in there too. Don't confuse that with support.

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

To absolve Russell as a mere "opportunist" is meaningless. It ignores the morality of the activities arising out of the opportunity.
You could just as well describe the Ukrainian nationalists who took advantage of the German occupation to massacre Poles in Volhynia as "opportunists".

The war created the opportunity for the IRA to collaborate with the Nazis in attacking Britain. They were happy to do so and to
ignore what the Nazis stood for and the outrages they had already committed.

Russell may have been devoid of political ideology but his actions were intended to further the Nazi project. His actions were constistent
with the long-held SF/IRA delusion that the quest for a United Ireland trumps all other political, ideological and moral priorities.

Nothing to show he sympathised or espoused Nazi ideology then.

Fair enough. That puts him in some exalted company so.

blanch152

rdwight wrote: »

To absolve Russell as a mere "opportunist" is meaningless. It ignores the morality of the activities arising out of the opportunity.
You could just as well describe the Ukrainian nationalists who took advantage of the German occupation to massacre Poles in Volhynia as "opportunists".

The war created the opportunity for the IRA to collaborate with the Nazis in attacking Britain. They were happy to do so and to
ignore what the Nazis stood for and the outrages they had already committed.

Russell may have been devoid of political ideology but his actions were intended to further the Nazi project. His actions were constistent
with the long-held SF/IRA delusion that the quest for a United Ireland trumps all other political, ideological and moral priorities.

And this holds to this day. They have already impoverished the people of West Belfast in order to encourage their objectives, chances are they would do that to the entire island to prove a point.