The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

rdwight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Russell did more than try and use the German's to his own advantage. HHe was involved all the way back to the 1910's.

Try some perspective there RD.

I assume you're referring to his involvement in 1916 etc. There's lots of old IRA figures that could be and are objects of veneration for SF/IRA supporters. I just think they should quietly ignore the one who last activity was collaboration with the Nazis and let the undergrowth reclaim his statue.

Will there be statues to Gerry Adams Sr., Tom McFeely and Pearse McAuley?

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

I assume you're referring to his involvement in 1916 etc. There's lots of old IRA figures that could be and are objects of veneration for SF/IRA supporters. I just think they should quietly ignore the one who last activity was collaboration with the Nazis and let the undergrowth reclaim his statue.

Will there be statues to Gerry Adams Sr., Tom McFeely and Pearse McAuley?

Who knows. SF have to walk past Carson to share power in the north, I'm sure they have a well worked out answer for you if you want to ask them. Be prepared to hear the words, 'selective outrage about one party's celebration/commemoration of the past' though.

theballz

Mary Lou truly is one of the most useless politicians in the history of our state

smurgen

theballz wrote: »

Mary Lou truly is one of the most useless politicians in the history of our state

Yep only grew her parties seats from by 14 to 37 seats from 23. Lol.

a very cool kid

smurgen wrote: »

Yep only grew her parties seats from by 14 to 37 seats from 23. Lol.

The Avram Grant of Irish politics lol

Suckit

a very cool kid wrote: »

The Avram Grant of Irish politics lol

That probably makes Leo the David Moyes.

landofthetree

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/second-sinn-fein-td-patricia-ryan-shared-9-11-conspiracy-theories-35ll0jnz0?shareToken=3ce3bb18fe11cc263bdbfe238df4ade3

Another SF TD with 9/11 Facebook posts.

rdwight

"By 1940 the Nazis had invaded and occupied a large part of Europe. That these occupied countries did not desire foreign occupation should have given pause for thought to a movement claiming to seek national self-determination."


https://www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/oh-heres-to-adolph-hitler-the-ira-and-the-nazis/[/QUOTE]

This is most ironic illustration of how, for the IRA, the quest for a United Ireland trumps all other moral and political values.

a very cool kid

landofthetree wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/second-sinn-fein-td-patricia-ryan-shared-9-11-conspiracy-theories-35ll0jnz0?shareToken=3ce3bb18fe11cc263bdbfe238df4ade3

Another SF TD with 9/11 Facebook posts.

That's your one who went on her holiers during the campaign? (The campaign SF expected to win so much they didn't run enough candidate or come up with a program for Government on).

How many current TDs that have "issues" are we on now?

Patricia Ryan - 9/11 conspiracy theorist

Brian Stanley - Anti Fluoride, pro Provo, glorifies death

Reada Cronin - hates Jews

Violet Wynne - steals from charities

Martin Browne - Another with his Twitter gone

David Cullianane - Up the RA

Dessie Ellis - an actual murderer

Aenghus O Snodaigh - wife threatens cops/his election helpers found with weapons/printer cartridges

Who have I missed? At what point do these stop being one-offs?

rdwight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who knows. SF have to walk past Carson to share power in the north, I'm sure they have a well worked out answer for you if you want to ask them. Be prepared to hear the words, 'selective outrage about one party's celebration/commemoration of the past' though.

Whataboutery, moral relativism, and vague allusions to selective outrage run out of road when it comes to Nazism.

The IRA plotted militarily to help the Nazis win the war. The chief architect of this collaboration, Sean Russell, died on a Nazi military mission.

I think building a statue to Russell was a bad idea. I think SF leaders attending rallies at the statue is a bad idea.

Daragh1980

markodaly wrote: »

Roman Shortall, who is a big Social Media supporter of SF appears to be having second thoughts.....
The truth slowly dawning....

https://twitter.com/RomanShortall/status/1334851336115007489

This complete drama queen who can give it out but can’t take it is about to flounce off Twitter. Serious anger issues.

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

Whataboutery, moral relativism, and vague allusions to selective outrage run out of road when it comes to Nazism.

The IRA plotted militarily to help the Nazis win the war. The chief architect of this collaboration, Sean Russell, died on a Nazi military mission.

I think building a statue to Russell was a bad idea. I think SF leaders attending rallies at the statue is a bad idea.

What happened Leo's push to have the statue removed? Is it not time to get on to him?

The reason I pointed to the Carson statue is that I believe we all need to talk about the past and how we remember on this island.

And we will. Digging up 'the dirt' on one party in relation to this period, as you have done, is ridiculous as has been pointed out. As all are in the mire if you want to look at it properly, not to mention fairly.

As usual with the morally biased, they only want to look and point at one outfit.
So keep shooting yourselves in the foot. I find it comedic to be honest.

a very cool kid

Daragh1980 wrote: »

This complete drama queen who can give it out but can’t take it is about to flounce off Twitter. Serious anger issues.

Always the victims...

FrancieBrady

landofthetree wrote: »

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/second-sinn-fein-td-patricia-ryan-shared-9-11-conspiracy-theories-35ll0jnz0?shareToken=3ce3bb18fe11cc263bdbfe238df4ade3

Another SF TD with 9/11 Facebook posts.

Wow, a member of a party who have witnessed the carry on of one of the 5 permanent members of the UN here in Ireland and their collusion with Loyalists (false flag operations?) has an open mind about what happened on 9-11.

I'm shocked!

a very cool kid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wow, a member of a party who have witnessed the carry on of one of the 5 permanent members of the UN here in Ireland and their collusion with Loyalists (false flag operations?) has an open mind about what happened on 9-11.

I'm shocked!

Is this the official Sinn Féin position now? Do you think the Americans did 9/11 themselves?

rdwight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What happened Leo's push to have the statue removed? Is it not time to get on to him?

The reason I pointed to the Carson statue is that I believe we all need to talk about the past and how we remember on this island.

And we will. Digging up 'the dirt' on one party in relation to this period, as you have done, is ridiculous as has been pointed out. As all are in the mire if you want to look at it properly, not to mention fairly.

As usual with the morally biased, they only want to look and point at one outfit.
So keep shooting yourselves in the foot. I find it comedic to be honest.

Whataboutery, moral relativism, and vague allusions to selective outrage run out of road when it comes to Nazism.

I look forward to having a conversation about remembrance with people who don't give Nazi collaborators a free pass as naive or as opportunists.

There's no digging of dirt to be done in this: I pass Fairview Park frequently and I the see the offending statue. I've been told it's the only statue in Dublin to a person who died in military service in WWII

Shooting selves in foot? Comedic? I don't find the celebration of Nazi collaborators funny.

FrancieBrady

a very cool kid wrote: »

Is this the official Sinn Féin position now? Do you think the Americans did 9/11 themselves?

No idea what SF think. But I'd be fairly sure they wouldn't believe a word out of 'officialdom's' mouths without proof.

They were telling us for years about British collusion and they were derided for it.

Perhaps the lesson is, we should all keep open minds? Have a look at alternate views and do as the Shinner said in that retweet...'See what you think'.

Is this some FF FG classic...'do not offend our betters and the hand that feeds us' complex you have?

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

Whataboutery, moral relativism, and vague allusions to selective outrage run out of road when it comes to Nazism.

I look forward to having a conversation about remembrance with people who don't give Nazi collaborators a free pass as naive or as opportunists.

There's no digging of dirt to be done in this: I pass Fairview Park frequently and I the see the offending statue. I've been told it's the only statue in Dublin to a person who died in military service in WWII

Shooting selves in foot? Comedic? I don't find the celebration of Nazi collaborators funny.

Ah...you are offended? I refer you to Stephen Fry's answer to the offended in that case.

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so ****ing what."

Take a sledge hammer to it. Have some moral courage.

a very cool kid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No idea what SF think. But I'd be fairly sure they wouldn't believe a word out of 'officialdom's' mouths without proof.

They were telling us for years about British collusion and they were derided for it.

Perhaps the lesson is, we should all keep open minds? Have a look at alternate views and do as the Shinner said in that retweet...'See what you think'.

Is this some FF FG classic...'do not offend our betters and the hand that feeds us' complex you have?

Where does open minds start and end?

Is it open minded to say British soldiers have families and their colleagues shouldn't have to pull bits of them from trees (no matter what misdeeds they have done in the past)?

Is it open minded to say that while Bloody Sunday 1972 was completely unjustified and wrong, the fact there were some known IRA gunmen in the crowd didn't help relieve tensions and probably contributed to the crazy decisions the British Army made that day?

Is it open minded to say that the Sinn Féin position of the UK should continue to partially fund NI after unification is the ultimate in deferment to our betters and really independence/unification in name only?

Is it open minded to say that for all his faults and the corrupt git that he was, Haughey had a major role in kick starting the Irish economy through attracting FDI so that 70 years after independence we could finally have the same standard of living as the rest of Europe?

So tell me, why are we ok to be open minded about somethings and not others?

rdwight

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ah...you are offended? I refer you to Stephen Fry's answer to the offended in that case.



Take a sledge hammer to it. Have some moral courage.

Who knew that Stephen Fry was capable of such lame statements?

Take a sledge hammer to it? Act in the real world? That's not really what discussion forums are about Francie.

Maybe we'll leave things with you being comfortable that the only statue in Dublin to a person who died in military service in WWII happens to be a statue of a Nazi collaborator.

FrancieBrady

a very cool kid wrote: »

Where does open minds start and end?

Is it open minded to say British soldiers have families and their colleagues shouldn't have to pull bits of them from trees (no matter what misdeeds they have done in the past)?

Is it open minded to say that while Bloody Sunday 1972 was completely unjustified and wrong, the fact there were some known IRA gunmen in the crowd didn't help relieve tensions and probably contributed to the crazy decisions the British Army made that day?

Is it open minded to say that the Sinn Féin position of the UK should continue to partially fund NI after unification is the ultimate in deferment to our betters and really independence/unification in name only?

Is it open minded to say that for all his faults and the corrupt git that he was, Haughey had a major role in kick starting the Irish economy through attracting FDI so that 70 years after independence we could finally have the same standard of living as the rest of Europe?

So tell me, why are we ok to be open minded about somethings and not others?

Nobody stopping you having any view you want.

the point here is that FG/FF primarily seem to be saying there is only one view, and that belongs to and is controlled by FG/FF. Step outside of the narrative and expect to be piled-on, have your career ended etc etc.

What SF are saying and others, including Unionists, is 'Get lost, your narrative is not the only one'.

So we'll see who wins that battle...my wedge is not on the 'self chosen people' BTW.

a very cool kid

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nobody stopping you having any view you want.

the point here is that FG/FF primarily seem to be saying there is only one view, and that belongs to and is controlled by FG/FF. Step outside of the narrative and expect to be piled-on, have your career ended etc etc.

What SF are saying and others, including Unionists, is 'Get lost, your narrative is not the only one'.

So we'll see who wins that battle...my wedge is not on the 'self chosen people' BTW.

Who said any thing about FF/FG? They're less than half the vote. Why do you insist upon bringing them into everything?

rdwight

a very cool kid wrote: »

Who said any thing about FF/FG? They're less than half the vote. Why do you insist upon bringing them into everything?

The rules of engagement here are that if you criticize SF/IRA you are definitely a FG/FF voter, probably a FF/FG member, and quite possibly posting under the direction of FG head office.

This is true regardless of your past voting record or future voting intentions.

You may also discover that you are also in fact a Tory, a West Brit, a Partitionist, or a Southern Unionist.

I protested at first but I just ignore it now.


Mind you, linking acceptance of the conventional narrative of the 9/11 attacks to FF/FG self-censorship is a bit of a stretch even for Francie.

FrancieBrady

a very cool kid wrote: »

Who said any thing about FF/FG? They're less than half the vote. Why do you insist upon bringing them into everything?

Apply it those claiming there is only one narrative on our divided history.

I am referencing the 'current' campaign to silence other views and narritives, led by FG specifically.

FrancieBrady

rdwight wrote: »

The rules of engagement here are that if you criticize SF/IRA you are definitely a FG/FF voter, probably a FF/FG member, and quite possibly posting under the direction of FG head office.

This is true regardless of your past voting record or future voting intentions.

You may also discover that you are also in fact a Tory, a West Brit, a Partitionist, or a Southern Unionist.

I protested at first but I just ignore it now.


Mind you, linking acceptance of the conventional narrative of the 9/11 attacks to FF/FG self-censorship is a bit of a stretch even for Francie.

No those aren't the rules of engagement at all. I was referencing the current attempt to 'control the narrative of the past', led principally by FG.
By no means are they the only ones who do it..SF/Republicans do it, Unionists/Loyalists do it and so do the British and Americans.

What 'we' need to do is sit down and discuss the various narratives without demanding silence...and find a way to respect each others version of the past. As we know, they are very different.

Brendan Bendar

Indeed, some of us here would love that, nothing to do, all day to do it, sit down and talk around in circles for months on end day after day, month after month and year after year.

Over something we cannot change!!!

Load of rubbish.

FrancieBrady

:D:D:D
Matt Carthy handing some FG moraliser his arse there on RTE. :D

James Brown

rdwight wrote: »

"By 1940 the Nazis had invaded and occupied a large part of Europe. That these occupied countries did not desire foreign occupation should have given pause for thought to a movement claiming to seek national self-determination."


http//www.historyireland.com/20th-century-contemporary-history/oh-heres-to-adolph-hitler-the-ira-and-the-nazis

This is most ironic illustration of how, for the IRA, the quest for a United Ireland trumps all other moral and political values.

Like a party wanting home rule but happy to do so under the bloody British empire? Don't talk about morals and ethics when we've record breaking crises year on year exacerbated by corporate greed and a willing government to continue in that manner to look after their own.

Dempo1

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D:D:D
Matt Carthy handing some FG moraliser his arse there on RTE. :D

Yes quite enjoyable and satisfying, just extraordinary, FG TD'S just can't help themselves, turning every debate onto the IRA, even Richard Boyd Barrett was having a great laugh in the background. Matt pretty much nailed FG real angst, namely the electorate insure SF had senior positions on Dail Committee's, the ones that will continue to hold this government to account.

McMurphy

RTE radio I assume lads?

Have a bit of a drive later I could do with a laugh in the background.