The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

Bishop of hope

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The fact is he articulated it and I don't think he was censured or corrected on it by the SDLP.

Regardless, it was the final straw for Unionist.

I'll let jm08 find the piece where Noel Dorr said that Cosgrove and Fitzgerald thought it would bring a UI as well.

It was amatuer hour really and Sunningdale and those behind it, failed spectacularly. Dublin, Belturbet and Monaghan got bombed as a result of the escalation it caused.

No reason to assume the like wouldn't happen again either.
I think when a UI does come democratically there will be a violent reaction.
Sunningdale was too early in the troubles and many nationalists didn't support it either.
Truth be told NI isn't ready for a jump to being united with the Republic yet probably either.
There isnt respect for Southern attitudes or govt and I'd say most of the nationalists in the north would resent having their lives ruled by Southern politicians as well imo.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

FG/Lab gave a dissident republican who campaigned against the GFA a senate position.

No. Lyra McKee was an innocent bystander shot by dissidents who do not support peace.
Mountbatten was a legitimate target in the conflict, It's unfortunate others died too. If I had my way nobody would have died but in a conflict that's not realistic.

What's your view on the BA/UDA blowing up two teenagers?

It is a bit rich of someone who thinks the cold-blooded murder of a young boy was unfortunate to ask someone else what they think of another murder.

But to be absolutely clear, the UDA bombing in Belturbet was as bad as the actions of the PIRA on 27th August 1979. I don't defend any of them, but you just did.

blanch152

Bishop of hope wrote: »

No reason to assume the like wouldn't happen again either.
I think when a UI does come democratically there will be a violent reaction.
Sunningdale was too early in the troubles and many nationalists didn't support it either.
Truth be told NI isn't ready for a jump to being united with the Republic yet probably either.
There isnt respect for Southern attitudes or govt and I'd say most of the nationalists in the north would resent having their lives ruled by Southern politicians as well imo.

The nationalists in the North struggle with the rule of law, the likes of the Storey funeral with the whiteshirts out in force self-policing would not be tolerated by the Gardai or the Irish government. There are many republicans that enjoy the conflict and whose lives would be empty if there was ever a united Ireland.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a bit rich of someone who thinks the cold-blooded murder of a young boy was unfortunate to ask someone else what they think of another murder.

But to be absolutely clear, the UDA bombing in Belturbet was as bad as the actions of the PIRA on 27th August 1979. I don't defend any of them, but you just did.

It's likely the third time I asked you.

I don't equate an armed soldier being killed in a conflict to two teens blown up by the UDA/BA. You do.
There was no IRA commander on that bridge. Mountbatten knew he was a target when he invited those young male companions on his boat and sailed into waters off Sligo. Also Stanley never mentioned Mountbatten however often FG try to conflate the two.

rdwight

Bowie wrote: »

It's likely the third time I asked you.

I don't equate an armed soldier being killed in a conflict to two teens blown up by the UDA/BA. You do.
There was no IRA commander on that bridge. Mountbatten knew he was a target when he invited those young male companions on his boat and sailed into waters off Sligo. Also Stanley never mentioned Mountbatten however often FG try to conflate the two.

I just knew that whoever was to blame for the deaths of the children it wouldn't be the people who planted or detonated the bomb.

RandomViewer

blanch152 wrote: »

It is a bit rich of someone who thinks the cold-blooded murder of a young boy was unfortunate to ask someone else what they think of another murder.

But to be absolutely clear, the UDA bombing in Belturbet was as bad as the actions of the PIRA on 27th August 1979. I don't defend any of them, but you just did.

The BA/UDA bombing of Belturbet , Cant leave the fore lock alone

RandomViewer

blanch152 wrote: »

The nationalists in the North struggle with the rule of law, the likes of the Storey funeral with the whiteshirts out in force self-policing would not be tolerated by the Gardai or the Irish government. There are many republicans that enjoy the conflict and whose lives would be empty if there was ever a united Ireland.

How many drug dealer and traveller funerals have the Gardai stood back and watched,

James Brown

rdwight wrote: »

I just knew that whoever was to blame for the deaths of the children it wouldn't be the people who planted or detonated the bomb.

The IRA were completely responsible and happy enough with the overall result I imagine. You seem to be on a fishing expedition yourself.

If the BA/UDA were targeting me I wouldn't be so careless with people. That's my only comment.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

The nationalists in the North struggle with the rule of law, the likes of the Storey funeral with the whiteshirts out in force self-policing would not be tolerated by the Gardai or the Irish government. There are many republicans that enjoy the conflict and whose lives would be empty if there was ever a united Ireland.

That was a literal dissident march, policed about as heavily as the event you're referring to, which regardless of opinion on Bobby Storey was still a funeral at the end of the day, Blanch.

James Brown

RandomViewer wrote: »

How many drug dealer and traveller funerals have the Gardai stood back and watched,

They actively took part in the Horkan funeral. I don't knock people for flouting restrictions for a funeral myself, it's bad form and shouldn't be done, but you can't slam one and ignore the other IMO.

James Brown

Fionn1952 wrote: »

That was a literal dissident march, policed about as heavily as the event you're referring to, which regardless of opinion on Bobby Storey was still a funeral at the end of the day, Blanch.

Likely a few future FG senators there.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Politics failed in NI, that is why it went up in flames.

Politics failed because of men like Sean MacStiofain and the PIRA.

SF should at least take ownership in that and apologise without reservation or whataboutery for their part and act in the conflict.

Again, ill repeat again and again. No one can explain to me how killing a 3-year-old toddler in England helped the average Catholic in NI.

If the PIRA kept their campaign to a minimum and was purely a defensive act against Loyalist mobs, protecting Nationalist/Catholic houses then one can see some sense in that. This is after all why even the IRA welcomed the British Army being deployed.

However, the PIRA took the war to the State and bombed and bombed and bombed, their way in an attempt to force a UI.

Even men like Tom Barry, no stranger to violence and revolution was appalled by this and knew it was counterproductive. Simply put the PIRA went way way too far and went at it for decades even when Adams himself knew in the late 70's that the war for the PIRA was unwinnable.

The only slow learners here were those in the PIRA that persisted and the dissidents that have emerged since, like the NIRA and the RIRA.

And now in 2020 we have the historical revisionism that the PIRA campaign was not about a UI at all, but was about civil rights and housing and all that, which is just factually incorrect at all and every level.

The greatest trick SF/PIRA pulled was telling everyone they won the war, when in fact they lost it.

The famous quote is as true today as it was when the GFA was signed.

"the Unionists have won. They're too stupid to see it, and the Republicans are too clever to admit it."

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Politics failed because of men like Sean MacStiofain and the PIRA.

SF should at least take ownership in that and apologise without reservation or whataboutery for their part and act in the conflict.

Again, ill repeat again and again. No one can explain to me how killing a 3-year-old toddler in England helped the average Catholic in NI.

If the PIRA kept their campaign to a minimum and was purely a defensive act against Loyalist mobs, protecting Nationalist/Catholic houses then one can see some sense in that. This is after all why even the IRA welcomed the British Army being deployed.

However, the PIRA took the war to the State and bombed and bombed and bombed, their way in an attempt to force a UI.

Even men like Tom Barry, no stranger to violence and revolution was appalled by this and knew it was counterproductive. Simply put the PIRA went way way too far and went at it for decades even when Adams himself knew in the late 70's that the war for the PIRA was unwinnable.

The only slow learners here were those in the PIRA that persisted and the dissidents that have emerged since, like the NIRA and the RIRA.

And now in 2020 we have the historical revisionism that the PIRA campaign was not about a UI at all, but was about civil rights and housing and all that, which is just factually incorrect at all and every level.

The greatest trick SF/PIRA pulled was telling everyone they won the war, when in fact they lost it.

The famous quote is as true today as it was when the GFA was signed.

You are a bit like Micheál Martin, if you say these things then it is true.

markodaly

Bowie wrote: »

Mountbatten was a legitimate target in the conflict,

I see this pop up a lot.

Tell us exactly, how was he legitimate?
Was it his royal connections, or the fact he was a retired military man?

Mountbatten had nothing to do with the NI conflict. Never made a decision, never led troops on the ground there, never did anything really to do with the North actually. It was as soft a target as one could find, and of course, 3 other innocent people died, something many people gloss over, as just 'unfortunate'.

Sorry, but the murder of 2 teenage boys, one a native of Co. Sligo was not unfortunate, it was the deliberate murder of children.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are a bit like Micheál Martin, if you say these things then it is true.

Is there anything there I said, is incorrect?

You do that a lot Francie, gloss over the facts presented to you and change the topic, or make some obtuse and banal comment about it, without ever directly answering the question.

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

I see this pop up a lot.

Tell us exactly, how was he legitimate?
Was it his royal connections, or the fact he was a retired military man?

Mountbatten had nothing to do with the NI conflict. Never made a decision, never led troops on the ground there, never did anything really to do with the North actually. It was as soft a target as one could find, and of course, 3 other innocent people died, something many people gloss over, as just 'unfortunate'.

Sorry, but the murder of 2 teenage boys, one a native of Co. Sligo was not unfortunate, it was the deliberate murder of children.

Both I imagine.

I wouldn't know. I find it unlikely the two boys were targeted.

rdwight

Bowie wrote: »

The IRA were completely responsible and happy enough with the overall result I imagine. You seem to be on a fishing expedition yourself.

If the BA/UDA were targeting me I wouldn't be so careless with people. That's my only comment.

Not fishing for anything. First Randomviewer and then you suggesting Mountbatten (and/or M15) were somehow was somehow culpable in the for murder of the two children.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

Is there anything there I said, is incorrect?

You do that a lot Francie, gloss over the facts presented to you and change the topic, or make some obtuse and banal comment about it, without ever directly answering the question.

Yes, your first sentence actually.
Politics failed long before the IRA got involved. When a sectarian police force is beating people off the streets because politics has not secured them their rights I think it is safe to say politics has failed. Once again mark I have to advise you to get your hands on a history of the north from a reputable source.
You are woefully under researched.

Not interested in the rest of what you said after that doosie, probably more 'but the RA' stuff and nonsense.

James Brown

rdwight wrote: »

Not fishing for anything. First Randomviewer and then you suggesting Mountbatten (and/or M15) were somehow was somehow culpable in the for murder of the two children.

The IRA were responsible for it.
The British Army and UDA blew up two children.

markodaly

Bowie wrote: »

I wouldn't know.

Probably the truest thing you have said in a while.

markodaly

Bowie wrote: »

The IRA were responsible for it.
The British Army and UDA blew up two children.

WTF??
Are we still talking about Mountbatten here or something else?

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, your first sentence actually.
Politics failed long before the IRA got involved. When a sectarian police force is beating people off the streets because politics has not secured them their rights I think it is safe to say politics has failed. Once again mark I have to advise you to get your hands on a history of the north from a reputable source.
You are woefully under researched.

Not interested in the rest of what you said after that doosie, probably more 'but the RA' stuff and nonsense.

And there you have the excuse of the murder of women and children. Its all partitions fault, am I right?

Again, you ignore everything about the culpability of the PIRA and its leaders in all this.

FrancieBrady

markodaly wrote: »

And there you have the excuse of the murder of women and children. Its all partitions fault, am I right?

Again, you ignore everything about the culpability of the PIRA and its leaders in all this.

Address the point I made about the your bull**** first sentence or just go away. Not in the humour to educate you tonight.

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

It's likely the third time I asked you.

I don't equate an armed soldier being killed in a conflict to two teens blown up by the UDA/BA. You do.
There was no IRA commander on that bridge. Mountbatten knew he was a target when he invited those young male companions on his boat and sailed into waters off Sligo. Also Stanley never mentioned Mountbatten however often FG try to conflate the two.

What you mean to say is that you have a heirarchy of victims. Some victims are more important than others. The family of a 19-year old kid blown to bits by the PIRA is not important to you because he somehow deserved it. It's just nauseating.

Then you go on to blame the victim in the case of Mountbatten. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

blanch152

blanch152 wrote: »

What you mean to say is that you have a heirarchy of victims. Some victims are more important than others. The family of a 19-year old kid blown to bits by the PIRA is not important to you because he somehow deserved it. It's just nauseating.

Then you go on to blame the victim in the case of Mountbatten. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Tbf,i dont see the british out apoligising for killing 16/17 year old ira members,and nor would i expect em to


Kinda comes with territory when ya join an army imo

blanch152

markodaly wrote: »

WTF??
Are we still talking about Mountbatten here or something else?

There is a fixation with Belturbet as if it was the only case of innocent teenagers being blown up. The killing of teenagers in Belturbet was equally bad as the killing of teenagers in Warrenpoint, not to mention the poor kids with Mountbatten.

Somehow Omagh is all Mairia Cahill's fault.

markodaly

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Address the point I made about the your bull**** first sentence or just go away. Not in the humour to educate you tonight.

About Sean MacStiofan? He was a fool and a megalomaniac. No one from the Republican movement will be toasting a drink in his name. A Grade 'A' plonker who thought this was all a game. What were the IRA doing in having this guy at the top never ceases to amaze me.

markodaly

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh mate,if the brits werent occuping ireland,there would been no PIRA


Like your free to critise the ira,seems like its a hobby of yours at this stage,

But a refusal to acknowledge that there would be no ira,if ireland wasnt divided kinda makes your critism invalid imo

The English 'occupy' Scotland... where is the Scottish version of the IRA?

blanch152

rdwight wrote: »

Not fishing for anything. First Randomviewer and then you suggesting Mountbatten (and/or M15) were somehow was somehow culpable in the for murder of the two children.

Section 2.1 of the playbook: Blame the victim

James Brown

markodaly wrote: »

Probably the truest thing you have said in a while.

If you can quote a lie....

markodaly wrote: »

WTF??
Are we still talking about Mountbatten here or something else?

The incident were a the British Army assisted the UDA blowing up a bridge killing two teenagers is being discussed.
We are also discussing Mountbatten.
Finding it hard to think of two things at once? No worries, Pick one so.