The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

The subvention is a single aspect of the cost. Where is the rest?

Would you accept an UI where only the subvention is paid and there is economic partition on the island where welfare rates and PS pay are different?

If there is a border poll in the future surely it's better to have some figures out there rather than giving a sharp shock right before the vote.

Look jh79...not sure how much you have thought about this...you seem to be taking your lead from others making snowballs.

For me...I know what will happen. A border poll will be called and the onus will be on the two governments to present white papers on a UI or maintenance of the status quo. All interested parties will make their own submissions, a debate will ensue and then we will be asked to make up our minds.

I am happy to wait for that process and will take a very active part in it if I am still around.
Until then, I will chose whether or not I will engage with what is speculation.

For you info: I havent bothered to read the SF document.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Look jh79...not sure how much you have thought about this...you seem to be taking your lead from others making snowballs.

For me...I know what will happen. A border poll will be called and the onus will be on the two governments to present white papers on a UI or maintenance of the status quo. All interested parties will make their own submissions, a debate will ensue and then we will be asked to make up our minds.

I am happy to wait for that process and will take a very active part in it if I am still around.
Until then, I will chose whether or not I will engage with what is speculation.

For you info: I havent bothered to read the SF document.

Will be interesting alright if it happens. It's economy is a mess. It's gonna cost someone a lot.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Will be interesting alright if it happens. It's economy is a mess. It's gonna cost someone a lot.

Doesn't need to be like that...10 years rationalising the public service...merging the health systems into a new entity. Loads of potential if looked at positively.

But yeh, it will be interesting.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Doesn't need to be like that...10 years rationalising the public service...merging the health systems into a new entity. Loads of potential if looked at positively.

But yeh, it will be interesting.

Rationalising the PS! Not even "tory" FG could do that. If any of the rest are in charge expect massive lump sums for early retirement and plenty of double jobbing. Snail pace shaving of the numbers.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Rationalising the PS! Not even "tory" FG could do that. If any of the rest are in charge expect massive lump sums for early retirement and plenty of double jobbing. Snail pace shaving of the numbers.

FG don't want to do it, you mean.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

FG don't want to do it, you mean.

In a majority government they would i reckon. Doubt i'll find out any time soon!

Unification has the potential to go horribly wrong in the wrong hands.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

In a majority government they would i reckon. Doubt i'll find out any time soon!

Unification has the potential to go horribly wrong in the wrong hands.

Partition hasn't exactly gone smoothly has it? What would have happened if Boris stuck with his Herd Immunity...or if they'd got the Brexit they wanted?

Partition will just continue to divide and destroy. Don't listen to the likes of blanch who ignores it until it impinges on him and his world.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Partition hasn't exactly gone smoothly has it? What would have happened if Boris stuck with his Herd Immunity...or if they'd got the Brexit they wanted?

Partition will just continue to divide and destroy. Don't listen to the likes of blanch who ignores it until it impinges on him and his world.

Partition has lasted 100 years, longer than most other boundaries in Europe. Don't know what you don't understand about that.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Partition has lasted 100 years, longer than most other boundaries in Europe. Don't know what you don't understand about that.

Couldn't care less if it was a 1000 years it has been an abject, tragic failure and if you had any respect at all for victims (which you don't)other than their usefulness to your political bias you would see that.

Partition now endangers our economic security and our health security, although with the mess FG and FF and the Greens have currently made here, we may also have to review how we handle the health of the nation as a whole.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Doesn't need to be like that...10 years rationalising the public service...merging the health systems into a new entity. Loads of potential if looked at positively.

But yeh, it will be interesting.

Rationalising the PS? You have lost a million votes from public servants and their families straight away.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Couldn't care less if it was a 1000 years it has been an abject, tragic failure and if you had any respect at all for victims (which you don't)other than their usefulness to your political bias you would see that.

Partition now endangers our economic security and our health security, although with the mess FG and FF and the Greens have currently made here, we may also have to review how we handle the health of the nation as a whole.

Point is, if it was such an abject failure, it would have collapsed years ago. Most of the post-WW1 borders collapsed, many of the post-WW2 borders have collapsed, especially those in Eastern Europe, Africa has seen huge changes in those 100 years, but the partition on this island sails merrily along, a delicate balance that has been acceptable to the vast majority of people on this island, who voted to maintain it as part of the GFA.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

Point is, if it was such an abject failure, it would have collapsed years ago. Most of the post-WW1 borders collapsed, many of the post-WW2 borders have collapsed, especially those in Eastern Europe, Africa has seen huge changes in those 100 years, but the partition on this island sails merrily along, a delicate balance that has been acceptable to the vast majority of people on this island, who voted to maintain it as part of the GFA.

Which bit of, it takes an international agreement between two sovereign countries and a unique devolved executive just to get it to function, makes it a success in your eyes.

Sad that you are waving the flags of celebrations with Unionists...but glad you are out in the open about it now.

Fionn1952

blanch152 wrote: »

Point is, if it was such an abject failure, it would have collapsed years ago. Most of the post-WW1 borders collapsed, many of the post-WW2 borders have collapsed, especially those in Eastern Europe, Africa has seen huge changes in those 100 years, but the partition on this island sails merrily along, a delicate balance that has been acceptable to the vast majority of people on this island, who voted to maintain it as part of the GFA.

...Jesus, Blanch, we had decades of civil war followed by a few more of shifty distrust instead of all out violence, a hodge podge mess of a government, two still divided societies, a 'state' that is on economic life support....in what world is it anything but an abject failure?

Without even getting into who is responsible for the fact that it is an absolute clusterf*ck (because SF certainly have to shoulder their share of the blame rather than just pointing at the Big Bad Brits), in what world could it be described as successful, beyond surviving (albeit on life support) for long past it's sell by date?!

I'm sure if enough money was pumped into it, and enough of the world spent that amount of political effort on it, we could've held Yugoslavia together....doesn't make it a good idea, and it certainly doesn't make it a successful stage. They made it over 70 years by the way.

James Brown

blanch152 wrote: »

Partition has lasted 100 years, longer than most other boundaries in Europe. Don't know what you don't understand about that.

Yet you'll raise the cost as a concern and speak on the numerous killings and injustices borne from it not to mention the ****show it's governance often is. Hardly a working territory.

blanch152 wrote: »

Point is, if it was such an abject failure, it would have collapsed years ago.....

With all due respect LOL.

FrancieBrady

Bowie wrote: »

Yet you'll raise the cost as a concern and speak on the numerous killings and injustices borne from it not to mention the ****show it's governance often is. Hardly a working territory.



With all due respect LOL.

It really is like debating with a DUP or Trump supporter. Just pivot from one point of view to the other without a care in the world for credibility.
NI has failed tragically and spectacularly and everyone involved has to share their portion of the blame.

padd b1975

blanch152 wrote: »

Did anyone see Mary-Lou make a complete fool of herself on the Six-One news.

One minute she was calling for an all-island approach, the next she was saying there was no need to cancel the Leaving Cert just because the A-Levels had been cancelled!!!!!! So much for the all-island approach.

One sentence nearly immediately after the other!

Is she anything but anti-whatever-the-other-person-says?

Was she called on it?

a very cool kid

blanch152 wrote: »

Again take child benefit. There are three choices

(1) Harmonise the rates upwards to the rate in the South, putting an extra cost on taxpayers

(2) Cut the rate in the South to match the North, i.e. harmonise downwards, thereby cutting social welfare to those in need

(3) Discriminate against children born in the North, by maintaining two different rates (though why you would unify to introduce discrimination is beyond me)


Your choice, Francie, pick one of the three policy options, I will work out the cost and the implications, or else, name a fourth policy option. We can start with this simple one, and move on to tougher challenges like SF setting out why it wants to cut nurses pay or increase property taxes and bring in water charges.

I think this needs to be answered before any referendum, any vote without this answered is just Brexit Mk II

James Brown

a very cool kid wrote: »

I think this needs to be answered before any referendum, any vote without this answered is just Brexit Mk II

Hardly.
These are things every budget and new government need address or amend. These are things government do.

If you can point to any government parties and self interested politicians and business people looking to profit personally by lying about the consequences of changing trade laws/restrictions, please do.
In fact a UI would be quite the opposite with Ireland likely remaining within the EU.

a very cool kid

Bowie wrote: »

Hardly.
These are things every budget and new government need address or amend. These are things government do.

If you can point to any government parties and self interested politicians and business people looking to profit personally by lying about the consequences of changing trade laws/restrictions, please do.
In fact a UI would be quite the opposite with Ireland likely remaining within the EU.

How would you like to see the government address this issue though? Blase bullsh*t soundbites won't put bread on the table ...

James Brown

a very cool kid wrote: »

How would you like to see the government address this issue though? Blase bullsh*t soundbites won't put bread on the table ...

Basically I would suggest a transition period for the incoming counties to allow for the merging of positions, salaries and the like. We are not on Mars. We are talking about playing with figures and moving jobs around. Again, I don't care what SF/FF/FG say in soundbites. They don't decide my opinions or wishes. Political parties and politicians are tools. You pick the right one for the job at the time.
It's about how we will do it, not if we should.

piplip87

https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-activists-breach-dail-gates-ff-td-demands-election-48937-Nov2010/

Add this to the "We won the election", "the media are against us". Its seems when Donald Donald attended the FOSF dinner they discussed election tactics.

McMurphy

piplip87 wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-activists-breach-dail-gates-ff-td-demands-election-48937-Nov2010/

Add this to the "We won the election", "the media are against us". Its seems when Donald Donald attended the FOSF dinner they discussed election tactics.

Tbf - 2010 is relatively recent compared to some of the stories you lads need to dredge lol.

Did any of the Shinners promise to interfere in any planning applications for him at the dinner I wonder?

Bubbaclaus

piplip87 wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/sinn-fein-activists-breach-dail-gates-ff-td-demands-election-48937-Nov2010/

Add this to the "We won the election", "the media are against us". Its seems when Donald Donald attended the FOSF dinner they discussed election tactics.

I recall being confused by all that at the time considering SF voted in favour of the bank guarantee that ultimately led to the bailout.

a very cool kid

Bowie wrote: »

Basically I would suggest a transition period for the incoming counties to allow for the merging of positions, salaries and the like. We are not on Mars. We are talking about playing with figures and moving jobs around. Again, I don't care what SF/FF/FG say in soundbites. They don't decide my opinions or wishes. Political parties and politicians are tools. You pick the right one for the job at the time.
It's about how we will do it, not if we should.

So discrimination based on partition? Nice.

James Brown

a very cool kid wrote: »

So discrimination based on partition? Nice.

Can you point to where I suggest that? Talk about blasé soundbites.

Wouldn't dream of treating Unionists the same way Nationalists and Catholics were treated.

FrancieBrady

McMurphy wrote: »

Tbf - 2010 is relatively recent compared to some of the stories you lads need to dredge lol.

Did any of the Shinners promise to interfere in any planning applications for him at the dinner I wonder?

I was about to say deflection post incoming...but I was beaten to it by the deflection post itself.

a very cool kid

Bowie wrote: »

Can you point to where I suggest that? Talk about blasé soundbites.

Wouldn't dream of treating Unionists the same way Nationalists and Catholics were treated.

During your "transition" people in the six counties will be paid differently to people in the 26 - that's discrimination.

I also noticed you mentioned merging positions, do you mean public sector redundancies by that?

blanch152

Bowie wrote: »

Can you point to where I suggest that? Talk about blasé soundbites.

Wouldn't dream of treating Unionists the same way Nationalists and Catholics were treated.

Bowie wrote: »

Basically I would suggest a transition period for the incoming counties to allow for the merging of positions, salaries and the like. We are not on Mars. We are talking about playing with figures and moving jobs around. Again, I don't care what SF/FF/FG say in soundbites. They don't decide my opinions or wishes. Political parties and politicians are tools. You pick the right one for the job at the time.
It's about how we will do it, not if we should.

People will be discriminated against for the length of the transition period as you have just admitted.

Complete nonsense and spoofology on this subject from the SF acolytes on here. Go back to the scenario I put forward for child benefit and tell me which of the three options you will take. There are no other ones.

blanch152

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It really is like debating with a DUP or Trump supporter. Just pivot from one point of view to the other without a care in the world for credibility.
NI has failed tragically and spectacularly and everyone involved has to share their portion of the blame.

You are still running away from the debate on the costs of unification.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

You are still running away from the debate on the costs of unification.

Fixed that for you:
You are still running away from I am not interested in the debate on the costs of unification with you or any other partitionists.