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The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

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    #9122
    jh79
    Registered Users Posts: 8,273 ✭✭✭jh79


    jm08 wrote: »
    With negative interest rates at the moment, now is the time to borrow money.

    We'll have to wait for the people of NI first and we'll be borrowing plenty to plug the 19bn deficit due to COVID in the meantime.


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    #9123
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    jh79 wrote: »
    We'll have to wait for the people of NI first and we'll be borrowing plenty to plug the 19bn deficit due to COVID in the meantime.


    The deficit which we were told was going to be 27 bn. That deficit? Didn't they announce before Xmas that they had restructured loans (over 10 years) where we now seemingly are being paid to borrow money.


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    #9124
    Bishop of hope
    Registered Users Posts: 2,928 ✭✭✭Bishop of hope


    jm08 wrote: »
    The deficit which we were told was going to be 27 bn. That deficit? Didn't they announce before Xmas that they had restructured loans (over 10 years) where we now seemingly are being paid to borrow money.

    What imbicilles in govt are responsible for us, being able to get money for nothing.


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    #9125
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Bishop of hope wrote: »
    What imbicilles in govt are responsible for us, being able to get money for nothing.


    The people in National Treasury who buy and sell Irish Gov. bonds. I think they are under Pascal's control.


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    #9126
    a very cool kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭a very cool kid


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    Thought Dinny was a mad royalist

    Que? Who is Dinny?


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    #9127
    a very cool kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭a very cool kid


    jm08 wrote: »
    The people in National Treasury who buy and sell Irish Gov. bonds. I think they are under Pascal's control.

    Have to pay the money back though? Won't always be able to refinance at 0, borrowing is just loading our kids with debt.


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    #9128
    tikkahunter
    Registered Users Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭tikkahunter


    a very cool kid wrote: »
    Have to pay the money back though? Won't always be able to refinance at 0, borrowing is just loading our kids with debt.

    Ah don’t worry about them they are on the SF money tree bandwagon .


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    #9129
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    a very cool kid wrote: »
    Que? Who is Dinny?

    Big old bald dude, wears a bad thatch, would've been selling copy iPhones out of the back of a Berlingo if it wasnt for FG , Stays very quiet about his visits to Epsteins island, we can probably guess his +ones


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    #9130
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,787 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    tikkahunter wrote: »
    Ah don’t worry about them they are on the SF money tree bandwagon .

    Like the new children's hospital
    Or the national broadband plan.
    Or all of those dodgy PPE kits.

    FG magic money tree keeps on delivering.


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    #9131
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    tikkahunter wrote: »
    Ah don’t worry about them they are on the SF money tree bandwagon .

    It wasn't SF who caused the need to service a massive debt, nor SF who are borrowing at the moment. 'Magical money trees' indeed. :rolleyes:


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    #9132
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    a very cool kid wrote: »
    Have to pay the money back though? Won't always be able to refinance at 0, borrowing is just loading our kids with debt.


    It could also be regarded as investing in our kids future by borrowing now when money is cheap rather than borrowing later when its not.


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    #9133
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    jm08 wrote: »
    It could also be regarded as investing in our kids future by borrowing now when money is cheap rather than borrowing later when its not.

    How do you know it'll be higher later, on the floor for 10 years now, are we getting value for the money borrowed? Could we have managed with much less if things were properly priced and managed? There has to proper sanctions for bad practice


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    #9134
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Kraftwerk wrote: »
    Just popped in to see the latest. Francie rounding on 2k posts in a single thread and shinners still flat out with the whataboutery.

    Have you lads seriously nothing better than to do with your lives than live in here posting the same thing over and over and over again?

    Thought you'd be busy with the bitumen and expanding foam trying to stop all these leaks,


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    #9135
    RandomViewer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Kraftwerk wrote: »
    Just popped in to see the latest. Francie rounding on 2k posts in a single thread and shinners still flat out with the whataboutery.

    Have you lads seriously nothing better than to do with your lives than live in here posting the same thing over and over and over again?

    Thought you'd be busy with the bitumen and expanding foam trying to stop all these leaks,


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    #9136
    a very cool kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭a very cool kid


    jm08 wrote: »
    It could also be regarded as investing in our kids future by borrowing now when money is cheap rather than borrowing later when its not.

    What; investment are you doing? How does a massive current account deficit (effectively borrowing money to pay day to day bills) improve their futures?


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    #9137
    a very cool kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭a very cool kid


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    How do you know it'll be higher later, on the floor for 10 years now, are we getting value for the money borrowed? Could we have managed with much less if things were properly priced and managed? There has to proper sanctions for bad practice

    How do you know it won't? Is it worth the risk?


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    #9138
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    a very cool kid wrote: »
    We will have a transitional period but it shouldn't be any longer than a year maximum. Otherwise you run the risk of "constant flux" that deters badly needed investment (investment craves stability, people don't put money into things that are going to change).

    Of course the public wouldn't vote for debt. Why do you think they should vote for it with no benefit in this case?

    Good that we are beyond the childishness of a transition period being discrimination. Of course it will need to be laid out to everyone's agreement.

    Well the standard yourself at others have set is monitory. How much is too much and so on.
    When you speak of no benefit, I agree, it's tough to expect people to pay for no apparent benefit.
    The crash. The average working tax payer didn't go mad, didn't party or any other FF/FG guff. They went about their business within the constraints and recommendations of the day. We went broke. We got into generational debt. We had year on year societal crises. Broke records in many areas. A working couple may never own a home and so on. The people responsible for the lion's share of the crash are back on top. That's because of things most had no part in and certainly nobody was asked to vote on it.
    So then look at a United Ireland. Even the most hardcore FG/DUP scaremongered figures would pale in comparison and we will be uniting the country. That's the benefit. We undo a wrong perpetrated on Irish people left to deal with inequality and undemocratic often murderous forces.


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    #9139
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    You won't get an answer on this. There is a very simplistic and naive narrative peddled by some posters around here that we can afford a united Ireland because we bailed out the banks. It is disingenuous, silly and off the wall, but that doesn't stop them.

    It was answered. Both of you seemingly decided to side step that. Very Donnelly of youse. Fingers in the ears.
    blanch152 wrote: »
    The thing is that many of those who call for a united Ireland are not taxpayers.

    Complete and absolute scurrilous lie.
    If you show proof I'll retract of course.


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    #9140
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,759 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    It wasn't SF who caused the need to service a massive debt, nor SF who are borrowing at the moment. 'Magical money trees' indeed. :rolleyes:

    What's McFeely up to these days?


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    #9141
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    grayzer75 wrote: »
    Have you evidence to back this up?

    TBF, Coveney and Kenny being FG, may not pay tax.


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    #9142
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    RandomViewer wrote: »
    How do you know it'll be higher later, on the floor for 10 years now, are we getting value for the money borrowed? Could we have managed with much less if things were properly priced and managed? There has to proper sanctions for bad practice


    I don't know if it will be higher. Money could be even cheaper then. Its all a bit of a gamble. But borrowing now for 10 years on minus fixed interest rate to invest in infrastructure (schools, hospitals, roads, windfars etc) is well worth doing now rather than later.


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    #9143
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    What's McFeely up to these days?

    Yeh..it was one man what done it. Look over there...blame the shinner. :):)


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    #9144
    padd b1975
    Registered Users Posts: 10,759 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Yeh..it was one man what done it. Look over there...blame the shinner. :):)

    Glad to see you now accept that a shinner contributed, despite what you claimed earlier.

    I respect that.


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    #9145
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Glad to see you now accept that a shinner contributed, despite what you claimed earlier.

    I respect that.

    Oh you really acquitted those responsible for our national debt there. :)


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    #9146
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,942 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Bowie wrote: »

    Complete and absolute scurrilous lie.
    If you show proof I'll retract of course.

    What a response, you call something a complete and absolute scurrilous lie, yet you have no evidence to dispute it.

    Read what I wrote again - "many of those who call for a united Ireland are not taxpayers", and be clear that I meant income tax payers (not buying the everyone pays VAT argument).

    What do you believe is untrue about that? Do you believe that all of those who call for a united Ireland pay income tax and that all of those on social welfare oppose it? What exactly is untrue about my statement? Maybe you think the opposite, maybe you think that most or all of those who call for a united Ireland are not taxpayers?

    You read the poster's name, you looked at the post, saw what you wanted to see, and spouted bile in response.


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    #9147
    jm08
    Registered Users Posts: 11,300 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    a very cool kid wrote: »
    What; investment are you doing? How does a massive current account deficit (effectively borrowing money to pay day to day bills) improve their futures?


    Borrowing money to invest in schools, IDA factories, hospitals, universities, roads, transport, windfarms, housing, sports facilities etc. frees up money to look after the day-to-day stuff.


    Some of the best investments made by Ireland when it didn't have a seat in its pants were Ardnacrusha/rural electrification, social housing and free education.


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    #9148
    a very cool kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭a very cool kid


    Bowie wrote: »
    Good that we are beyond the childishness of a transition period being discrimination. Of course it will need to be laid out to everyone's agreement.

    Well the standard yourself at others have set is monitory. How much is too much and so on.
    When you speak of no benefit, I agree, it's tough to expect people to pay for no apparent benefit.
    The crash. The average working tax payer didn't go mad, didn't party or any other FF/FG guff. They went about their business within the constraints and recommendations of the day. We went broke. We got into generational debt. We had year on year societal crises. Broke records in many areas. A working couple may never own a home and so on. The people responsible for the lion's share of the crash are back on top. That's because of things most had no part in and certainly nobody was asked to vote on it.
    So then look at a United Ireland. Even the most hardcore FG/DUP scaremongered figures would pale in comparison and we will be uniting the country. That's the benefit. We undo a wrong perpetrated on Irish people left to deal with inequality and undemocratic often murderous forces.

    Re the transition - any longer than a year of paying different rates etc is discrimination. Once it's possible to do so logistically they need to married up. A year won't be enough time to fix the subvention.

    Re the crash , you can't say that just because we screwed up the cash before we should definitely screw up again.

    Half the people you want to undo the wrong on are happy enough as they are, do they get a say? Are we effectively paying for a romantic notion here? What will these wronged people have in a UI they don't have already (beyond more taxes)


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    #9149
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,930 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    a very cool kid wrote: »
    Re the transition - any longer than a year of paying different rates etc is discrimination.

    Did you just arbitrarily decide that yourself? A 'transition' will last for however long a period is agreed. The operative word is 'agreed'.


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    #9150
    a very cool kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 504 ✭✭✭a very cool kid


    jm08 wrote: »
    Borrowing money to invest in schools, IDA factories, hospitals, universities, roads, transport, windfarms, housing, sports facilities etc. frees up money to look after the day-to-day stuff.


    Some of the best investments made by Ireland when it didn't have a seat in its pants were Ardnacrusha/rural electrification, social housing and free education.

    See that's grand but in Unification we're straight away into a big current account deficit without either cuts in social welfare payments or increased VAT or income taxes. So you're borrowing to pay the bills, not build an extension or put yourself through college etc


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    #9151
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,013 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    blanch152 wrote: »
    What a response, you call something a complete and absolute scurrilous lie, yet you have no evidence to dispute it.

    Read what I wrote again - "many of those who call for a united Ireland are not taxpayers", and be clear that I meant income tax payers (not buying the everyone pays VAT argument).

    What do you believe is untrue about that? Do you believe that all of those who call for a united Ireland pay income tax and that all of those on social welfare oppose it? What exactly is untrue about my statement? Maybe you think the opposite, maybe you think that most or all of those who call for a united Ireland are not taxpayers?

    You read the poster's name, you looked at the post, saw what you wanted to see, and spouted bile in response.

    You made the claim. You show it's not made up and a lie.
    I could say 'many who support Fine Gael spit on the homeless. Prove me wrong. Do you think no FG'er ever spat on a homeless person?'. See how ridiculous you are being?

    You made it up, that's what's untrue.
    nope. I think many people support it from likely the same backgrounds as those who pine for the empire days when the great unwashed knew their place ;)

    You spun a yarn, told a lie, made up stuff..again.


This discussion has been closed.
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